Can Anyone Disguise This Variation?

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Spin Lizard said:
So, as near as I can figure, a pronated arm would have you bowling 'out the back of the hand'.
Am I out of my depth in the anatomy discussion also?

Or were you talking rubbish?

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Still out of your depth, sadly.

If you weren't being such a little bitch I might take the time to explain it to you. But as you are, I won't.
 
Fingers down the back for a flipper. Pronated arm for an off cutter.

I'm not sure you could explain these things, chief.





*I thought of an explanation: "well, you see, I was talking rubbish"
 
Spin Lizard Spin Lizard , There is little to no difference in the arm and wrist position to bowl this ball. The thumb points towards the bowler just like off break and it would be very tough for the batsman to pick it from 22 yards away especially with my fast (swanny like) action. Also no one expects a leg-breaking ball with a same action in club level :D
 
young_offie said:
Hello spinners,
I am a young off spinner paranoid with his variations. :rolleyes:
I am familiar with different variations like off break, top-spinner, carrom ball and under-cutter (Swann's flying saucer). The other day I was experimenting with back spinners and all of a sudden I bowled this back spinning off break that turned like a doosra! To be honest I was expecting it to skid on which the ball did 30% of the time. Other 70% of the times it spun the other way kinda keeping low. The grip is the similar to off break but the releasing is different.
Can anyone else try this out?
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Assuming I'm reading you right, this is a 'legbreak' with the wrist in the position for an off break?

Can and do bowl a similar delivery (for a good 15+ years now), mine is essentially carrom ball with the wrist in the position for a offbreak. From there you can have variation options where the wrist is in position like an off spinners topspinner (becomes a back spinner) or the other way toward a 'pure' leg break.

Lots of fun with a newish ball.
 
leftie600 said:
Assuming I'm reading you right, this is a 'legbreak' with the wrist in the position for an off break?

Can and do bowl a similar delivery (for a good 15+ years now), mine is essentially carrom ball with the wrist in the position for a offbreak. From there you can have variation options where the wrist is in position like an off spinners topspinner (becomes a back spinner) or the other way toward a 'pure' leg break.

Lots of fun with a newish ball.
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That's what it looks like to me from the vid, a legcutter that looks for all the world like an offbreak. I've bowled this delivery since I was a kid - and I used to bowl the opposite (an offcutter from a leg spin bowler's release position). You can't get much spin, maybe 3-6 inches, but its very difficult to pick, even for "decent" batsmen.
 
Calling someone out on their bullshit is constructive in my view. Explain to us how a pronated arm delivers an off-cutter.

In any case, here (relevant to discussion of off-spinners deception) are a couple of my favourite youtube clips:




I couldn't tell you how many times I've watched those. A lot more than Khawaja or Hussey, at a guess...
 
The Doosra kind of annoys me. I don't like how off spinners can now bowl a leg break. Spinning it both ways should surely be the sole preserve of the wrist spinner, should it not? What was the point of me going to all that hassle if it can be done with the fingers? And Graeme Swann getting 2,000 revs with his fingers. I feel cheated.

I really admire the delivery, though, and off spin in general.
 
Darth Spin said:
The Doosra kind of annoys me. I don't like how off spinners can now bowl a leg break. Spinning it both ways should surely be the sole preserve of the wrist spinner, should it not? What was the point of me going to all that hassle if it can be done with the fingers? And Graeme Swann getting 2,000 revs with his fingers. I feel cheated.

I really admire the delivery, though, and off spin in general.
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Finger spin and wrist spin are unfortunate misnomers. I don't use the terms when coaching, I just use offspin and legspin. Both types of spinner use the fingers and the wrist in equal measures.

Bowling decent offspin is no easier than bowling decent legspin, otherwise we would all be doing it.
 
SLA said:
Finger spin and wrist spin are unfortunate misnomers. I don't use the terms when coaching, I just use offspin and legspin. Both types of spinner use the fingers and the wrist in equal measures.

Bowling decent offspin is no easier than bowling decent legspin, otherwise we would all be doing it.
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10/10 I hate when people say its easy to bowl finger spin. No its not! Its harder than your job of a 12th/drinks man.
 
SLA said:
That's what it looks like to me from the vid, a legcutter that looks for all the world like an offbreak. I've bowled this delivery since I was a kid - and I used to bowl the opposite (an offcutter from a leg spin bowler's release position). You can't get much spin, maybe 3-6 inches, but its very difficult to pick, even for "decent" batsmen.
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Different for me I guess as my stock delivery is a legbreak delivered with the wrist in a traditional legbreak position but the fingers working like a carom ball. The bonus I may be getting is I am still putting some decent revs on the all despite the wrist position.

The delivery for me can be made to do the following:

  • Swing (not drift) in and seam/spin away on a green pitch with a newish ball
  • Do nothing (scrambled seam, good pitch)
  • Spin sharply away (dusty pitch), obviously can swing in with a new gal
It is however a novelty for me that can only fool good batsman in the first few overs. Like an over pronounced googly I hold it back as something that can keep the batsman watching and nervous as opposed to a WMD.

I'd imagine it's a great delivery if you are an off spinner dominant bowler.
 
Coming in really late to this discussion, but this is a ball I've been working on as well. I call it a slider. Basically its a backspinner with the seam pointed towards fine leg. It drifts in, and skids on and cuts away from a right handed batsman. Its very easy to pick because the ball comes out from under the hand rather than over the hand. It really is a leg spinner delivery imo.

But guys lets be honest here, as off spinners we get most of our wickets with off spinner don't we? Which the batsman can pick every time because its the stock ball. It doesn't matter how easy the ball is to pick, if you bowl it well enough, you will get wickets with it.
 
Yeah that's right. It behaves differently depending on how fast you bowl not too. If you slow it down and give it a chance to grab, then you can really get some turn. You can also change the angle of spin so it's spinning towards point as it goes through the air. Kind of like a finger spinning leg spinner I guess. I'm yet to master this ball but I'm working hard on it.
 
Chino#21 said:
Precisely, spot on there Laggsy! Leg cutters are very easy to spot, don't know how anyone can disguise it well at all unless the batsman isn't looking. I asked every good batsman I know and we all agree that against offies the only variation that's difficult to spot is a well delivered arm ball and a top spinner. (No doosra bowlers here)

I suppose that slider delivery could be quite useful if you can bowl it fast enough? Especially against the tail enders!
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There's a reason hardly anyone bowls the arm ball anymore, and that's because its the easiest variation of all to spot. That big fat vertical seam rather gives the game away.

The basic rule: Anything with a prominent seam is dead easy to pick without even watching the hand. Anything with a scrambled seam requires a bit more guesswork.
 
SLA said:
There's a reason hardly anyone bowls the arm ball anymore, and that's because its the easiest variation of all to spot. That big fat vertical seam rather gives the game away.

The basic rule: Anything with a prominent seam is dead easy to pick without even watching the hand. Anything with a scrambled seam requires a bit more guesswork.
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Well I must be pretty hopeless because I do my bowling practice with two-colour balls and even then I can't quite tell what it will do off the pitch. And it's got to be a lot easier reading the seam from the bowler's view.
 
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