Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

Every thread just about gets sidetracked in some way or another to discuss the Ashes, now just 7 months away.

So, lets discuss the Ashes here.

Make your predictions, who will be the heros, what will the teams be, etc.

Australia IMO has the clear edge in the bowling department, especially as the series is in Australia.

Bollinger, Johnson, Hilfenhaus, Harris, Hauritz and Watson looks like a group of bowlers capable of nailing England's batting lineup.

Australia to win 3-1.

 

[courtjester]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

Just as a sideline, do you think that we will see any retirements after the series ends? The Ashes is basically the pinnacle for Aus cricketers, and we have some guys (Hussey, Katich, Ponting & Haddin) getting pretty old now. I reckon Katich and Hussey will play til they're dropped, considering they made late starts, but I wonder how much longer Ponting will go for to be honest. Haddin only needs to drop a catch or two and fail with the bat before the questions will be asked. If these guys dont have a good series, the media will get the knives out quick I reckon.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

The media can do what they want; they don't have a say in the make-up of the side, although sometimes I get the impression they think they do.

After each series I'm sure that each player's performance is analysed by the selectors and the people at CA who count, from that I'm sure decisions are made for both the short-term and the long term.

Realistically, I think Katich and Hussey have a maximum of 2 years left in the game; Hussey and Katich have both had decent summers.

Ponting started well this summer before getting injured, that took a lot of wind out of his sails, but he scored a double ton. Ponting was ran out twice in NZ, so I wouldn't read a lot into his form.

I'd expect him to have a massive summer coming from, he is still clearly the best batsmen on either team.

Ponting could well play until 2013, I can't see Katich and Hussey going that far.

Sure, if Australia stumble this summer the selectors may well 'tap' Ponting on the shoulder. But that will only happen if Ponting has a miserable summer with the bat, rather than losing to England.

I don't think there is much in the England bowling to worry about, especially now we are playing in Australia.

Our batsmen will fill their boots against the likes of Anderson, Swann and Broad.

These guys will get smashed.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

The batsmen may fill their boots against Anderson, but I am not so sure about Broad, he is improving all the time and is far more competitive than Anderson is.

Swann is full of himself, but Strauss sets very attacking fields for him and he is a good test match bowler now.

I'm not so sure our line-up which can still be as flaky as hell will be racking up vast scores as you seem to suggest LTD. They don't do that regularly these days even against poor teams, so why should they do it against a team that can hold their catches and have a reasonable attack?

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

Even against poor teams?

We racked up some massive scores against Pakistan, who in my opinion have a superior attack to England, and New Zealand.

England's batting is just as flaky as ours.

I think people are getting carried away with England's attack; England will play 4 bowlers (Swann, Broad, Anderson, Onions) and there is nothing in that lineup to fear. Anderson averaged 80 odd out here in 06, average 40 odd in the last ashes series, as did Swann. Broad's skin and bone frame won't hold up for 5 tests matchs in 6 weeks.

I just think Australia's batting has improved, with the addition of Watson; North cementing his place; Hussey getting into the runs; Clarke maturing all the time. You have to back Australia to score some big scores against that England line-up, especially when we're playing at home. When your playing at home, you always get more runs out of your lower order as well.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

Even against poor teams?

We racked up some massive scores against Pakistan, who in my opinion have a superior attack to England, and New Zealand.

England's batting is just as flaky as ours.

I think people are getting carried away with England's attack; England will play 4 bowlers (Swann, Broad, Anderson, Onions) and there is nothing in that lineup to fear. Anderson averaged 80 odd out here in 06, average 40 odd in the last ashes series, as did Swann. Broad's skin and bone frame won't hold up for 5 tests matchs in 6 weeks.

I just think Australia's batting has improved, with the addition of Watson; North cementing his place; Hussey getting into the runs; Clarke maturing all the time. You have to back Australia to score some big scores against that England line-up, especially when we're playing at home. When your playing at home, you always get more runs out of your lower order as well.

Pakistan are one of the worst catching teams in the world. On this tour in New Zealand and Australia, they dropped an unbelievable number of catches. They won a test match against New Zealand despite dropping something like 8 catches. I wouldn't have thought it was possible for an international team to be so poor. Their fine bowling attack must be thoroughly depressed as they have to get people out twice or three times routinely.

England won't play dropsy like they did or even like the West Indies did. Seriously. I think you should look up how many times Watson got dropped over summer, he would have had about 3 less decent scores and wouldn't have his ton apart from god awful fielding from the opposition.

Anderson I agree, no-one in the line-up should be afraid of him outside English conditions, but Stuart Broad has far more fire in his belly and is learning more and more about using his height and the right length to bowl. Hopefully, he'll get carried away by ego and think he can bounce everyone out. Onions I don't know about outside England, but Swann is a good bowler. It is about the mental game with him, if his confidence is up, he can be a difficult customer. And Strauss has no fears about setting very attacking fields for him, I watched the effect surrounding the bat with fielders had on the Saffer batsmen. Hauritz will never get that sort of support from Punter unless he is on a hat-trick.

I just don't see the Aussies as all-conquering anymore, they are as frail as the next team now.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

Well, what a great observation, "I don't see the Aussies as all-conquering anymore", great, your about 3 years behind the play. It reminds me of the Brisbane Lions AFL team when they won 3 flags in a row, and then lost in 2004, people kept saying 'the era is over' about 5 or 6 different times after that when the lions had a loss.

Anderson will be ineffective in Australia, just like he has been every other time he has played Australia bar the odd spell in England last year.

If your going in with 4 bowlers, if your 'strike' bowler is off, than your up against it. Swann is England's best bowler, but Australia play overseas spinners in Australia very well. I really can't see Swann troubling us in Australia, even with the aid of a bunsen burner Swann only averaged 40 odd against us with the ball.

That is specifically where England's problem will be. If Swann is not taking wickets, and his going at 3 an over, than Strauss is going to have to fall back on his 3 seamers. Swann took wickets in South Africa, but when SA finally decided to attack him (4th test), they were all over England, simply because the other bowlers had to bowl more and they are less effective.

Broad is still young, 23 or 24, and it is a massive ask for a guy of his experience and physical build, to lead the attack against an Australian team that will be up for the contest. Bowling in Australia is hard work, and Broad doesn't exactly have an easy paced action like McGrath did.

There won't be any swing at all in Australia, excep the ball swining off the middle of the bat, the available evidence suggests that England are almost mediocre if the ball doesn't swing. I watched a lot of the SA-Eng series and that was the impression I got. Lets be frank, England should have lost 3-1, against a fairly modest South African team.

People go on about our frail batting order, and sure, if the ball is tailing around then we can look vulnerable. But we won't be playing at Lords with drizzle in the air, we'll be playing in 30°C+ degree heat. England's 4 bowlers will wilt under the work-load.

As the series gets closer and closer, I keep getting more confident of Australia taking it up to the English.

We collapsed against the Windies in Perth, but we relaxed after starting the 2nd dig with a 200 run lead and Ponting wasn't able to bat at 3.

We collapsed against Pakistan on a seamer.

I cannot state the issue enough, Swann has to be attacked, both verbally in terms of sledging, and physically in terms of taking the attack to him with the bat. Remember last time, we took down Geraint Jones with the club pro taunts

I'd get into Swann about his big chin and his alleged drink driving. Then attack him the bat, because I reckon you can hit him off his length. In turn, Swann will get frustated and Strauss will have to bowl the seamers. Therefore, the seamers are getting over-worked and they will tire and become more ragged and sore.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

Well, what a great observation, "I don't see the Aussies as all-conquering anymore", great, your about 3 years behind the play. It reminds me of the Brisbane Lions AFL team when they won 3 flags in a row, and then lost in 2004, people kept saying 'the era is over' about 5 or 6 different times after that when the lions had a loss.

Anderson will be ineffective in Australia, just like he has been every other time he has played Australia bar the odd spell in England last year.

If your going in with 4 bowlers, if your 'strike' bowler is off, than your up against it. Swann is England's best bowler, but Australia play overseas spinners in Australia very well. I really can't see Swann troubling us in Australia, even with the aid of a bunsen burner Swann only averaged 40 odd against us with the ball.

That is specifically where England's problem will be. If Swann is not taking wickets, and his going at 3 an over, than Strauss is going to have to fall back on his 3 seamers. Swann took wickets in South Africa, but when SA finally decided to attack him (4th test), they were all over England, simply because the other bowlers had to bowl more and they are less effective.

Broad is still young, 23 or 24, and it is a massive ask for a guy of his experience and physical build, to lead the attack against an Australian team that will be up for the contest. Bowling in Australia is hard work, and Broad doesn't exactly have an easy paced action like McGrath did.

There won't be any swing at all in Australia, excep the ball swining off the middle of the bat, the available evidence suggests that England are almost mediocre if the ball doesn't swing. I watched a lot of the SA-Eng series and that was the impression I got. Lets be frank, England should have lost 3-1, against a fairly modest South African team.

People go on about our frail batting order, and sure, if the ball is tailing around then we can look vulnerable. But we won't be playing at Lords with drizzle in the air, we'll be playing in 30°C+ degree heat. England's 4 bowlers will wilt under the work-load.

As the series gets closer and closer, I keep getting more confident of Australia taking it up to the English.

We collapsed against the Windies in Perth, but we relaxed after starting the 2nd dig with a 200 run lead and Ponting wasn't able to bat at 3.

We collapsed against Pakistan on a seamer.

I cannot state the issue enough, Swann has to be attacked, both verbally in terms of sledging, and physically in terms of taking the attack to him with the bat. Remember last time, we took down Geraint Jones with the club pro taunts

I'd get into Swann about his big chin and his alleged drink driving. Then attack him the bat, because I reckon you can hit him off his length. In turn, Swann will get frustated and Strauss will have to bowl the seamers. Therefore, the seamers are getting over-worked and they will tire and become more ragged and sore.

As you like it so much I'll state it again..... I don't see the Aussies as all-conquering anymore.

England have got far more fight in them than you are seeing. They possibly should have lost more matches in SA, but they didn't, they drew the series away after beating the Aussies at home. What's our record against decent teams recently?

I do agree about getting into Swann though. He also has to be played very carefully from the outset as he gets frustrated when he doesn't gets wickets and loses his confidence and starts bowling short tripe, then he can be belted around like MJ on a bad day.

Broad is getting better all the time, but his ego is getting bigger alongside his improvement so I think he'll go for the short stuff as he'll see himself as being aggressive and 'taking it to them' that way.

God, Deccan are going down the toilet again.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

I agree that England have shown a lot more fight than you would expect, especially when it comes to drawing games.

In saying that, I read an interview, published in Wisden, during which Flower was saying that he was 'interested' to see which 'theory' would come out on top during the 2009 Ashes series: a) England's 5 bowlers b) Australia's 4 bowlers.

So, it will be interesting if he backs up his chest thumping this summer in Australia. Will Flower go with 5 bowlers, most likely meaning that Bresnan comes into the side in place of a specialist batsmen, at this stage, most likey Trott. Alternatively, will he go with 4 bowlers?

I am willing to make quite a large bet that the big Flower man will go with 4 bowlers, so it will be interesting to see how that goes.

Swann and Broad have to be aggresively worked over verbally. I also hope the Aussie fans get stuck into Broad, naturally, his 'pretty boy' looks and his attitude will have him copping it from all angles; it will be interesting to see how he copes.

I'm positive the Australian players will now the advantage that we can get by putting these 2 bowlers off their game. Swann's little tanty in Bangladesh won't go unnoticed.

Lets rile Broad, lets get him fired up, banging it in short, trying to show he isn't scared. Not only will he waste his energy, but his bowling will suffer.

We have to prepare very well.

Lets rib swanny about drink driving and his big chin, if Bresnan plays lets get stuck into him about his weight and his tanty on twitter. Broad has to be verbally worked over, I cannot stress that enough.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

'I also hope the Aussie fans get stuck into Broad, naturally, his 'pretty boy' looks and his attitude will have him copping it from all angles; it will be interesting to see how he copes.'

That's the last of the problems for Aus. He'll be number one target. He makes himself unpopular everywhere he goes very quickly.

 

[a for effort]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

I'm confident that Graemme Swann would not give a flying fudge and Ricky and the lads reminding him that he was caught drink-driving, has a big chin, or is '!@#$ing #$%house' (as is the preferred taunt by the Australian wordsmiths).

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

Maybe, maybe not, but lets find out either way.

I still reckon Swann should be targeted - whether he likes it or not.

PS: Ablett is going to GC

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

Swann has to be played really carefully, he'll get far more freaked out by being starved of wickets than any talk would achieve. He's gobby himself and likes a chat. But you can see the anxiety when wickets don't come, he starts yelling at his fielders for real and often imagined stuff-ups and screaming frantically for decisions at the umpire in a highly amusing way.

He is not a patient bowler, it is his main weakness. Strauss knows this that is why it is full-on attacking fields with him from the start.

 

[lewissaffin]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

For all the talk about Swann, you need to look at the results. You can slate Strauss for setting attacking fields for Swann but Strauss is damn right to set attacking fields for him because Swann has a knack of taking wickets in his first over of a spell. He was (and may still be) the world's number two bowler for a reason.

Has anyone given a chance to Steven Finn yet? He looked half-decent in Bangladesh (sure, it's just Bangladesh, but you can only beat the team in front of you) and, if he has a decent summer in England, he could well be a star in Australia.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

I am very confident given that Australia has the flattest pitches in World cricket that England can escape with a drawn series, all it will take is winning a few tosses, this current side wouldnt know what to do being 500 down when starting their 1st innings

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

I am very confident given that Australia has the flattest pitches in World cricket that England can escape with a drawn series, all it will take is winning a few tosses, this current side wouldnt know what to do being 500 down when starting their 1st innings

"England escape with a drawn series"

You don't sound very confident do you eddie?

As I said previously, asking a 'rookie' fast bowler, and that is what both Finn and Broad are, to lead England's attack in Australia is a massive ask - bound to only end one way, in a lot of pain for England fans.

England's problem is reflected in Eddie's post; England will be looking for draws just as much as Australia will be looking for wins. To the England fans, a draw is as good as a win. Consquently, Flower will play 4 bowlers; it is why that plonker Fletcher was selecting Giles over Panesar last time, because he wanted Giles ability with the bat to help get a big first innings total to ensure a drawn match.

Australian wickets, bar Adelaide, actually have a bit of pace and carry. I know for a fact that Cricket Australia instructed groundsmen last summer to put a bit more pace and carry back into the wickets; we can assume the same message will be put out before the Ashes.

England's batsmen are weak against the bouncing ball, I have no doubt about that.

England's fundamental weakness is their bowling, they are there for the taking.

Lets go to work.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

For all the talk about Swann, you need to look at the results. You can slate Strauss for setting attacking fields for Swann but Strauss is damn right to set attacking fields for him because Swann has a knack of taking wickets in his first over of a spell. He was (and may still be) the world's number two bowler for a reason.

Has anyone given a chance to Steven Finn yet? He looked half-decent in Bangladesh (sure, it's just Bangladesh, but you can only beat the team in front of you) and, if he has a decent summer in England, he could well be a star in Australia.

Yeah, and Harmison inexplicably was once ranked the best bowler in the world? Does anyone actually follow those rankings?

When SA finally shed their shell and attacked Swann he looked average - unable to slow the scoring, and as many alluded to, getting frustated.

Australia will target Swann - Australian batsmen have taken to a lot bigger and better spinners than Swann in Australian conditions, his name will duly be added to the list that includes players like Murali and Kumble.

Rather than being a threat, Swann will be England's weakness, because they don;t have the attack to get wickets if Swann doesn't fire.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

Hard to believe that this England side with such poor batsmen that struggle on pitches that suit fast bowlers actually drew with South Africa in South Africa, must have been a miracle

Good thing for England is Australia dont have any bowlers that might worry them, no McGrath or Warne who will bowl an unbelievable spell that will turn a match and worry the batsmen. Its one thing to call Englands attack as Rookies, but Australia will have an attack with atleast 2 pace bowlers with less than 12 months of test cricket behind them, Englands attack will be the more experienced

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

SA had a modest attack: Steyn on one leg, Kallis about 15 kg over weight, some rookie who I can't member, Morkel and Harris.

It was a miracle England drew the series, you're right there eddie, England on merit deserved to lose 3-1.

Australia's bowlers are experienced under Australian conditions, including pitch conditions and cliamtic conditions; the Australian bowlers also have the physical attributes to succeed in Australia - upper body strength.

Onions, Broad and Anderson are your typical English county seamers, not an ounce of weight on them. The duke decks around more and swings more in England, so the ability to 'bang the ball' in isn't a factor in English conditions.

However, when your charging in on a hard Australian wicket you need to be strong, England's bowlers probably haven't lifted a weight in their life.

Swann, Onions and Broad have never played under Australian conditions, and that is a massive factor. Hell, Anderson's last sortie in Australia was embarrassing; 5 wickets at 80 odd I think.

I remember last time England said one of the reasons they lost because they had little experience under Australian conditions; the same problem will present itself again.

You cannot tell me that an Australian pace attack of Bollinger, Johnson, Hilfenhaus/Harris, Hauritz and Watson is inferior to England's attack of Anderson, Onions, Broad and Swann under Australian conditions.

Swann is a better spinner than Hauritz, sure, but Hauritz will be bowling to English batsmen while Swann will be bowling to Australians; there in lies a crucial difference.

England will bang their drum leading up to the series, but they will get hammered.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Pre-Ashes 2010/11 Discussion thread.

For all the talk about Swann, you need to look at the results. You can slate Strauss for setting attacking fields for Swann but Strauss is damn right to set attacking fields for him because Swann has a knack of taking wickets in his first over of a spell. He was (and may still be) the world's number two bowler for a reason.

Has anyone given a chance to Steven Finn yet? He looked half-decent in Bangladesh (sure, it's just Bangladesh, but you can only beat the team in front of you) and, if he has a decent summer in England, he could well be a star in Australia.

Good god, I'm not slating Strauss for setting attacking fields for Swann, I admire him for it, it shows good quality captaincy and faith in the bowler. Punter doesn't support Hauritz in that way from the first over he bowls. He's more inclined to set really attacking fields for Katich on the rare times he bowls than Hauritz.

But Swann can get freaked out by not getting wickets and start to get very emotional. Anybody who has watched England play has seen that, I'm not making it up.

MJ is the world's no 2 bowler, he has somehow kept his nose ahead of most other pretenders to Steyn's crown in the past year.

I haven't seen Finn bowl yet, but I am always interested in young quicks. Having been thoroughly disappointed in Harmison in the past 2 years, the English team could do with someone with real nip who has a heart as well.