Slider

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by eiglow_, Aug 3, 2015.

Put it out there
  1. eiglow_

    eiglow_ Member

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    I have never really been clear on what a slider is. Is it just a legbreak with no overspin that skids or is it a mix of backspin and sidespin or what? Someone please clarify this for me :confused:
     
  2. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Watch this from 6:40, This explains it. It is mainly a backspin, as the ball doesnt turn and the seam isnt angled at any direction to spin it. You will not the seam position at around 7:51.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  3. eiglow_

    eiglow_ Member

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    So would it be a bit like Fawad Ahmed's Zoora?
     
  4. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Yes very similar
     
  5. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I thought I understood this delivery but I'm a bit confused now. The ball Warne bowls in the above link at 7.48 appears to be coming down with some off-spin. How he is doing that or whether I am falling for some optical illusion due to the scrambled seam I'm not sure.

    I wonder about this description although it comes straight from the man himself. Certainly Warne also said that he invented it when bowling with a wet ball in April in the UK and his spinning finger didn't grip the ball, result was that the ball 'slid' out going straight on while the action was identical to a leg break.

    This would seem to be such a delivery
     
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  6. AngryRanga

    AngryRanga Member

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    I thought it had a combination of backspin and sidespin, but watching Warne's video I'm unsure.
     
  7. James513

    James513 Member

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    I believe that there r a few different types of sliders, but I bowl this one which I think is pretty easy. U just hold it like a normal leg break, but then instead of flicking the wrist in a leg spin motion, u just roll ur fingers and Palm under the ball creating back spin. It is bowled just like a normal medium pace delivery but a bit slower so that u can create back spin by rolling ur hand under the ball. It is very easy once u get it but it may take a bit of practice. Some people get it straight away but others take a while to get it. It is also not easy to pick as a batsman. If u r a bit confused I can post a video of my self demonstrating how to bowl it if u want, but hopefully u can under stand it with my description.
    Thanks
    James
     
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  8. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    It's one of Warne's clever cons, I saw him a couple of days ago over here talking about his career along with Ian Healey (Wicket keeper) and they were talking about the use of psychology and he was talking about his deliveries. They were talking about Warne's bowling and how Healey coped with it, saying about how well he was able to read it out of the hand and between them they listed them - Leg-break, big Leg break, Wrong-un, Flipper, and Top Spinner. Ponting was there with them and he chipped in obviously joking "And all the others", both Warne and Healey laughed at the idea of the 'others', Healey said... "The trickiest one was the leg break that hit a defect in the pitch and didn't bite and went straight on".
    Personally I don't buy into the idea of 'The Slider' and from the way all three of them laughed at the idea that there was anything more than Warne's 5 proper deliveries, I convinced even more. Have a look at this here - where I present the case for the Slider being a load of old B******s http://legspinbowling.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/orthodox-back-spinner-slider-zooter.html
     
  9. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I believe in the slider! I think there's an interview where Warne comes clean about making up imaginary deliveries but says the slider really was a new one. I haven't located that interview but here a video where he demonstrates a slider


    slider is at 6:45
     
  10. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather call that a nonsense ball or a nothing ball - from the reaction of Ponting and Healey in the Sky package and from what Warne himself says, it's just a part of the Warne psychology and mystery. In the same package they joke about the fact that prior to the test matches Warne would say that he's got this, that and the other ball and then he'd go and see the channel 9 or sky producers and prior to or during the test and show them all his secret balls (At which point all three of them fall about laughing). This 'Slider' he demo's here, I don't think he ever really used it in a game, it's just something to wind up the Poms knowing full well they'd all be glued to the monitors trying to pick up clues.
     
  11. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    But that's what the slider is, isn't it? Just a ball that goes straight on with an action identical to a legbreak.
     
  12. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    This definitely looks like one
     
  13. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Simon Hughes showing a Warne legbreak and slider to Flintoff at around 5:50 onwards, good split-screen comparison
     
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  14. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    The What?
     
  15. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    I'm always going to say that the Slider is a load of nonsense, no matter what you show me by way of videos, I've always suspected it to be the case, no-one seems to know what it is, there's no definitive description of one other than Warney's tongue in cheek explanations in these video's. As I've said the package on Sky a couple of days ago - Warne, Pointing and Healey all basically p*****g themselves laughing at the idea that there was anything other than the traditional deliveries that Warne bowled. I'm sure every now and then Warne possibly bowled 'Nothing ball', but to call it a slider and name it as though it sat alongside deliveries like Flippers and Leg Breaks which have pedigree is a joke as far as I'm concerned. So we'll just have to beg to differ on this until I see something written by Warne where he describes it and explains it in the kind of detail given to the 'real' deliveries by other great wrist spinners.
     
  16. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    hey @someblokecalleddave this is the interview I was looking for. I think he's telling the truth here.



    Slider commentary is from 2:30 - 3:50
     
  17. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    To me he's still saying that he was trying to bowl a 'proper' delivery the big turning leg break, he then says it was in-effective because it wasn't gripping, he then seems to suggest that he didn't then change anything - at no point does he say, I then invented a new delivery, he just seems to suggest he continued bowling the big turning leggie, knowing full well that in some situations it just goes on, which Ian Healey alluded to. It's not a delivery, it's just a consequence of the ball not turning! There is no such thing as a slider, it's just a leg break gone wrong.
     
  18. AngryRanga

    AngryRanga Member

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    I thought you were saying that there is such thing as a slider, but it's just a different name for an orthodox backspinner, in the blog post you linked.
     
  19. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    But @someblokecalleddave we can see him bowling it! And the release is different to the legbreak. I think the clearest pic is around 6:20 of the Simon Hughes clip. It is being pushed through from the spinning (ring) finger, so it's just a little backspin-ish really.

    As such it is really a 'nothing' ball, but there's nothing wrong with that. If it is the poor man's flipper it seems Warne did pretty well with it as a substitute.

    The ball which I question exists is the zooter or orthodox backspinner
     
  20. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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Put it out there