Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

[Langarne]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

All over red rover Australia win by 103 runs.

MOTM - Matthew Hayden

McGrath & Hogg do the business once again.

Lara and Ramdin looked good. The rest were pathetic.

 

[Sunstroke]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

I agree. But the problems in the Windies team were always there and were bound to be exposed in pressure situations. Gayle is totally out of form and out of sorts, Chanderpaul unlucky, Sarwan got out to a brainless shot as usual, Samuels was Samuels, Bravo and Smith.......well typical.

Lara and Ramdin the only performers in this match. Ramdin still has a ways to go when it comes to consistency so while he scored a 50, I await his upcoming performances.

 

[cleazer]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

What the heck is wrong with Gayle?!?!?

 

[Langarne]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

What the heck is wrong with Gayle?!?!?

He's out of form. Plus he fell for the three card trick when Ponting issued a bowling change and brought McGrath on after facing Tait. Saw the easier pace and decided to start having swipes and mis-cued the shot.

 

[schwab2clarkson]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

All over red rover Australia win by 103 runs.

MOTM - Matthew Hayden

McGrath & Hogg do the business once again.

Lara and Ramdin looked good. The rest were pathetic.

Yep and I have to agree with you.
Did you hear the West Indies talking themselves up before the match started?
They should have just shut up and not say anything.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

That LBW decision against chanderpaul was ridiculous. The ball was heading no where near the stumps .

Agree. That wasn't out.

Even though I go for Australia (passionately I might add), that was missing off-stump by a fair way.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

Finally saw my first game of the tournament last night. Channel 9 put the second innings on, live I might add which shocked me even more. I was able to watch most of the inningsas it was at a decent hour for a change.

Damn not having Foxtel. Luckily I have Cricinfo's live commentary to keep me informed.

I agree. But the problems in the Windies team were always there and were bound to be exposed in pressure situations.

The only reason they batted poorly was because of the high total they were chasing. If they had of been chasing something a lot lower than that, then I am sure it would have been more of a contest.

Gayle is totally out of form and out of sorts, Chanderpaul unlucky, Sarwan got out to a brainless shot as usual, Samuels was Samuels, Bravo and Smith.......well typical.

Gayle is out of form at the moment, no question. Chanderpual was fired, that wasn't hitting off-stump.

Sarwan got out to a poor ball but it was an even poorer shot. Having said that, it was there to be hit. It should have been six or at least four runs.

Samuels also played a horrible shot but you can understand why he chose to go down that path, they needed the runs as the required run rate was getting out of control.

Lara and Ramdin the only performers in this match. Ramdin still has a ways to go when it comes to consistency so while he scored a 50, I await his upcoming performances.

Ramdin looks a pretty good player from that I saw last night. Looked pretty solid and was able to score runs quickly and freely. He's only young so it'll take time for him to develop. But if he can improve his game, he'll be a crucial player for the West Indies in the future.

And of course, Lara was the stepping stone of the innings once again, another fine knock but he only had one other team-mate to help him out.

 

[Langarne]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

Samuels also played a horrible shot but you can understand why he chose to go down that path, they needed the runs as the required run rate was getting out of control

I think you're making excuses here. That shot was the story of Samuel's career. He's not up to speed with the seriousness of international cricket IMO. The shot played by Ronnie Sarwan was pathetic. No doubting the poor quality of the delivery but he's another one who has shockingly underachieved in his career to date. The West Indies have some talent but they've got a lot of things to iron out with regards to professionalism before they're considered a contender of anything.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

I think you're making excuses here. That shot was the story of Samuel's career. He's not up to speed with the seriousness of international cricket IMO.

Samuels has the talent to play international cricket, he just has to get his psycological game in order. The shot he played was a poor one but there was a reason as to why he played that shot though, they needed runs to stop the required run rate increasing.

Nevertheless, it was a very ordinary shot which he didn't have to do but did anyway. The shot he played to get off the mark (which was a four I might add) was a good one.

The shot played by Ronnie Sarwan was pathetic. No doubting the poor quality of the delivery but he's another one who has shockingly underachieved in his career to date.

Yeah, his shot was horrible. That should have been hit to the boundary.

The West Indies have some talent but they've got a lot of things to iron out with regards to professionalism before they're considered a contender of anything.

I think the West Indies are on the improve of late. They played well against Australia in the DLF Cup which was held late last year in Malaysia. They managed to beat Australia in that tournament and have beaten Australia twice in their last five meetings in ODI's. I don't think many other countries could say they have that record.

They have had a good World Cup to date so far with just the one slip-up so far to Australia. They had a good group stage and they had a great win against Pakistan, a game which few people expected them to win.

Although they have been very, very ordinary for the last few years, I think they are starting to improve.

 

[Sunstroke]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

What the heck is wrong with Gayle?!?!?

Gayle was never a complete batsman. When he made his debut on the Jamaican team he was known to be a hard hitter of the ball. An explosive stand up and deliver type of batsman with great reflexes. And he's remained that kind of batsman ever since. He possesses no footwork, seems unable to get into the line of the ball, isn't interested in working for singles when he's having problems at the crease and thus rotate the strike.

Now he is susceptible to swing bowling and every bowler he faces is aware of this. He's clearly aware of the weakness in his game and this has affected his confidence. Yesterday he was pegged down and when he sought to break free he played a silly shot.

Is the problem poor coaching? Is it that Chris cannot internalise and then execute advice I'm sure he's been given, especially with a person like Clive Lloyd on the management team ? Who knows.

I recall Matthew Hayden being told that he needed to improve his footwork before he could make the OZ team, Chris needs to be told the same and work on his batting for a year or so. Perhaps dropping him would be drastic since he's vital to the synergy of the team but putting him at no 5 or 6 is a good idea in my view for the time being. But then who to replace him as opening batsman?

.................................................................................................................................

The only reason they batted poorly was because of the high total they were chasing. If they had of been chasing something a lot lower than that, then I am sure it would have been more of a contest.

Well the bowling left much to be desired. Taylor had a bad day, Powell had some good spells. Gayle got two no balls and he's a spinner ...(WTF???) They didn't keep it tight. So Hayden massacred them. Smith wasn't bowled, why I don't know but I'm sure Lara in his infinite wisdom had a good reason. Samuels is odd and that's all I'm going to say about that one. Clearly we need a specialist spinner on the team but..........I ain't a selector. So Hayden powered his way to 158 which made a huge difference to the Aussie innings. Early on he nearly got run out,, and if he had,, the total would have looked much different.

So far their bowling against Pakistan remains their most disciplined performance. Why they haven't been able to be consistently disciplined,, well that is a question for the ages..

Sarwan got out to a poor ball but it was an even poorer shot. Having said that, it was there to be hit. It should have been six or at least four runs.

Sarwan has been having difficulties for a long time now. He still can't play the hook shot - as we saw against Zimbabwe I believe. And that shot that got him out should have gone for six true. Sarwan lacks confidence and hasn't been coached out of his bad habits. Perhaps Lara should have come in at no3 yesterday since he tends to do well against Australia. But that's 20/20 hindsight. In any case Sarwan is supposed to be the future captain once Lara leaves the ODI scene, if he isn't productive at 3 now......what happens when Lara leaves?

Ramdin looks a pretty good player from that I saw last night. Looked pretty solid and was able to score runs quickly and freely. He's only young so it'll take time for him to develop. But if he can improve his game, he'll be a crucial player for the West Indies in the future.

Ramdin tends to lose confidence at times but when he's focused he does well. When he first played for Trinidad and Tobago during our regional tournaments many were impressed with his maturity and skill. He had a disastrous time in Pakistan last year, stage fright perhaps? He lacked confidence and regressed. I'm glad to see him coming into his own again but at his age it is imperative he is handled carefully.

Samuels also played a horrible shot but you can understand why he chose to go down that path, they needed the runs as the required run rate was getting out of control.

Well no I don't understand that shot. Samuels does this kind of rubbish ever so often. Surely someone told these guys that it was more important to bat through the overs rather than play stupid shots and lose your wicket. Now our NRR has been severely dealt a blow because no one in the batting order, with the exception of Lara, Ramdin and ...well Chanderpaul was unlucky......, understood what was required. That's why Chanderpaul getting out was such a huge blow, he's the type to stay there while the others play around him. Ah well...

They have had a good World Cup to date so far with just the one slip-up so far to Australia. They had a good group stage and they had a great win against Pakistan, a game which few people expected them to win.

Thing is, they haven't really been tested so far. Pakistan was not up to scratch and our win against Zimbabwe wasn't very convincing. Against Ireland we were better, but then again it's Ireland.

Perhaps the lack of Windies support in the stands yesterday contributed somewhat to what we saw but they ought to be professional enough to battle through any situation. But hope springs eternal and if they want this WC badly enough they will improve.

 

[Sunstroke]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

The only reason they batted poorly was because of the high total they were chasing. If they had of been chasing something a lot lower than that, then I am sure it would have been more of a contest.

Well the bowling left much to be desired. Taylor had a bad day, Powell had some good spells. Gayle got two no balls and he's a spinner ...(WTF???) They didn't keep it tight. So Hayden massacred them. Smith wasn't bowled, why I don't know but I'm sure Lara in his infinite wisdom had a good reason. Samuels is odd and that's all I'm going to say about that one. Clearly we need a specialist spinner on the team but..........I ain't a selector. So Hayden powered his way to 158 which made a huge difference to the Aussie innings. Early on he nearly got run out,, and if he had,, the total would have looked much different.

So far their bowling against Pakistan remains their most disciplined performance. Why they haven't been able to be consistently disciplined,, well that is a question for the ages..

Sarwan got out to a poor ball but it was an even poorer shot. Having said that, it was there to be hit. It should have been six or at least four runs.

Sarwan has been having difficulties for a long time now. He still can't play the hook shot - as we saw against Zimbabwe I believe. And that shot that got him out should have gone for six true. Sarwan lacks confidence and hasn't been coached out of his bad habits. I can't even remember the last time he's scored a half century. Perhaps Lara should have come in at no3 yesterday since he tends to do well against Australia. But that's 20/20 hindsight.

Ramdin looks a pretty good player from that I saw last night. Looked pretty solid and was able to score runs quickly and freely. He's only young so it'll take time for him to develop. But if he can improve his game, he'll be a crucial player for the West Indies in the future.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

Well the bowling left much to be desired. Taylor had a bad day, Powell had some good spells. Gayle got two no balls and he's a spinner ...(WTF???) They didn't keep it tight. So Hayden massacred them. Smith wasn't bowled, why I don't know but I'm sure Lara in his infinite wisdom had a good reason. Samuels is odd and that's all I'm going to say about that one. Clearly we need a specialist spinner on the team but..........I ain't a selector. So Hayden powered his way to 158 which made a huge difference to the Aussie innings. Early on he nearly got run out,, and if he had,, the total would have looked much different.

So far their bowling against Pakistan remains their most disciplined performance. Why they haven't been able to be consistently disciplined,, well that is a question for the ages..

Well after I praised their recent form so much, they've gone and let me down. Yet another ordinary performance from the Windies. I don't think they will play in the Super Eights now.

I don't know why Bradshaw isn't playing in the side. He seems to be a good bowler and bowls pretty tight, picking up the occasional wicket. The bowling seems to lack concentration, Collymore bowled reasonably well last night and then got smacked for 18 off one over.

They also lack a full-time spinner. Gayle, Chanderpaul and Samuels don't really suffice as the spinners in the side, although Gayle is a very good one-day bowler. But they need someone who specializes in spin. Every other team seems to have one but the Windies.

Sarwan has been having difficulties for a long time now. He still can't play the hook shot - as we saw against Zimbabwe I believe. And that shot that got him out should have gone for six true. Sarwan lacks confidence and hasn't been coached out of his bad habits. Perhaps Lara should have come in at no3 yesterday since he tends to do well against Australia. But that's 20/20 hindsight. In any case Sarwan is supposed to be the future captain once Lara leaves the ODI scene, if he isn't productive at 3 now......what happens when Lara leaves?

Lara will be around for a while I feel. If he were to leave soon, he'd leave West Indies in a big hole which is something he won't want to do. Lara looks pretty good at the moment, hit 70-odd against Australia and managed a nice run-out last night, it's not as if he's struggling to get around the field.

Perhaps, the problems come down to a coaching level. Maybe the Windies players aren't getting the right type of coaching? He should be able to play most shots at this type of level although all players have their favourite strokes. Their problems seem to come from both a skill and psychological level.

Ramdin tends to lose confidence at times but when he's focused he does well. When he first played for Trinidad and Tobago during our regional tournaments many were impressed with his maturity and skill. He had a disastrous time in Pakistan last year, stage fright perhaps? He lacked confidence and regressed. I'm glad to see him coming into his own again but at his age it is imperative he is handled carefully.

Probably the case, he's only very young and has only been on the international scene for a short period of time. He can't be expected play such a senior role in the side as he's still learning about game on an international basis.

He looks very good though and I'm sure he will fit into the team nicely. Should develop nicely over the next few years as his experience grows.

Well no I don't understand that shot.

Growing run rate so quick runs were needed hence silly shot. Didn't have to play it though considering the shot he played just before it.

Samuels does this kind of rubbish ever so often. Surely someone told these guys that it was more important to bat through the overs rather than play stupid shots and lose your wicket. Now our NRR has been severely dealt a blow because no one in the batting order, with the exception of Lara, Ramdin and ...well Chanderpaul was unlucky......, understood what was required. That's why Chanderpaul getting out was such a huge blow, he's the type to stay there while the others play around him. Ah well...

The top order were trying to go for the win early on although their slow batting really hindered them. It was only when the middle order came in that they needed to bat out the overs. And even then there were some rash and bizarre shots.

Thing is, they haven't really been tested so far. Pakistan was not up to scratch and our win against Zimbabwe wasn't very convincing. Against Ireland we were better, but then again it's Ireland.

Perhaps the lack of Windies support in the stands yesterday contributed somewhat to what we saw but they ought to be professional enough to battle through any situation. But hope springs eternal and if they want this WC badly enough they will improve.

Well they've certainly fooled quite a few people so far. I thought they were on the improve with their WC results and previous form but it seems they still have the same old problems. They were very disappointing against New Zealand last night.

 

[schwab2clarkson]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

What the heck is wrong with Gayle?!?!?

Low in confidence. That's what happens to all good players they all fail sometime during their career.
People put a hell of a lot of pressure and expect them to do their best when in reality the player might of lost his form and is in a low patch trying his hardest to break the mould.

 

[Sunstroke]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

Well after I praised their recent form so much, they've gone and let me down. Yet another ordinary performance from the Windies. I don't think they will play in the Super Eights now.

I don't know why Bradshaw isn't playing in the side. He seems to be a good bowler and bowls pretty tight, picking up the occasional wicket. The bowling seems to lack concentration, Collymore bowled reasonably well last night and then got smacked for 18 off one over.

They also lack a full-time spinner. Gayle, Chanderpaul and Samuels don't really suffice as the spinners in the side, although Gayle is a very good one-day bowler. But they need someone who specializes in spin. Every other team seems to have one but the Windies.



Lara will be around for a while I feel. If he were to leave soon, he'd leave West Indies in a big hole which is something he won't want to do. Lara looks pretty good at the moment, hit 70-odd against Australia and managed a nice run-out last night, it's not as if he's struggling to get around the field.

Perhaps, the problems come down to a coaching level. Maybe the Windies players aren't getting the right type of coaching? He should be able to play most shots at this type of level although all players have their favourite strokes. Their problems seem to come from both a skill and psychological level.



Probably the case, he's only very young and has only been on the international scene for a short period of time. He can't be expected play such a senior role in the side as he's still learning about game on an international basis.

He looks very good though and I'm sure he will fit into the team nicely. Should develop nicely over the next few years as his experience grows.



Growing run rate so quick runs were needed hence silly shot. Didn't have to play it though considering the shot he played just before it.



The top order were trying to go for the win early on although their slow batting really hindered them. It was only when the middle order came in that they needed to bat out the overs. And even then there were some rash and bizarre shots.



Well they've certainly fooled quite a few people so far. I thought they were on the improve with their WC results and previous form but it seems they still have the same old problems. They were very disappointing against New Zealand last night.

Taylor's exclusion was understandable to be honest. Taylor has been faltering, but Bradshaw was a better replacement instead of Simmons. Then again the batting has been awful and Lara probably thought he needed a proper batsman in the tail. A crazy decision still since defensive cricket is never the way to go.

Samuels shot...still...was a stupid shot. The kind of shot a professional does not play. This has always been my issue with these batsmen. It's the way they get out .....silly considering their talent. They fail under pressure, they lose the basics under pressure. This is all mental, and if you fail often enough, failure becomes embedded in your psyche. It's a complicated mess of a situation and one of my hopes after the World Cup is that the improved facilities inspires a rennaissance in terms of coaching standards, the selection process, the length of the FC season here. A complete overhaul of cricket is necessary - and that includes women's cricket as well which is in even a worse state.

The absence of a specialist spinner is largely the fault of selectors.There are quite a few spinners in the region but spin has never been respected in the Windies unfortunately.

For alot of foreigners looking in, it may seem as though the cupboard is bare when it comes to Windies cricket but it isn't. The problem is how raw talent is handled, whether young players mature and become seasonsed professionals.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

Taylor's exclusion was understandable to be honest. Taylor has been faltering, but Bradshaw was a better replacement instead of Simmons. Then again the batting has been awful and Lara probably thought he needed a proper batsman in the tail. A crazy decision still since defensive cricket is never the way to go.

Which is why I still don't understand why they aren't playing Bradshaw. The guy is an experienced, talented bowler who has an ability to be very economical and able to pick up wickets. His exclusion is a bizarre decision by the selectors.

Samuels shot...still...was a stupid shot. The kind of shot a professional does not play. This has always been my issue with these batsmen. It's the way they get out .....silly considering their talent. They fail under pressure, they lose the basics under pressure. This is all mental, and if you fail often enough, failure becomes embedded in your psyche. It's a complicated mess of a situation and one of my hopes after the World Cup is that the improved facilities inspires a rennaissance in terms of coaching standards, the selection process, the length of the FC season here. A complete overhaul of cricket is necessary - and that includes women's cricket as well which is in even a worse state.

Have to agree here. It is all mental, they just have to improve their concentration and psyche, they have the talent but their mental side of the game is letting them down.

The absence of a specialist spinner is largely the fault of selectors.There are quite a few spinners in the region but spin has never been respected in the Windies unfortunately.

I don't think I've ever seen a specialist spinner from the region. I remember Nagamootoo coming out for the tri-series a while back (at least 4 or 5 years) but that has been it. I guess the glory years of the 80's and early 90's has inspired all West Indian cricketers to bowl at 155km/hr.

For alot of foreigners looking in, it may seem as though the cupboard is bare when it comes to Windies cricket but it isn't. The problem is how raw talent is handled, whether young players mature and become seasonsed professionals.

A definite coaching issue. From what you are saying, the issue lies with the coaching and the development side of West Indian cicket. Perhaps that needs to be looked at and how they can improve that aspect of the team.

 

[Sunstroke]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

From what you are saying, the issue lies with the coaching and the development side of West Indian cicket. Perhaps that needs to be looked at and how they can improve that aspect of the team.

Well coaching yes, but then you read the bios of Roy Fredericks and Courtney Walsh who worked hard on their game without the assistance of a coach. This was especially so in Roy Frederick's days when you didn't have coaches for every aspect of the game. But these days, Gayle is satisfied with his approach, and has said so. He sees no need to improve his technique..oh well!!

And lets not underestimate the influence County Cricket had on former Windies players. For example, Maco ( Malcolm Marshall) and many of his peers learnt alot in County Cricket. English conditions were always seen as a litmus test for bowlers and batsmen, and Marshall the craftsman perfected his talent abroad. Then of course you had the Packer Series and to this day Holding talks about the "Packer way" of playing cricket - competitive, take no prisoners approach.

Brian Lara, great batsman though he is, has not been able to motivate his players to be consistently competitive. In my view he should never have been captain, focusing instead on his batting. In his early days as Cappo he was often confused and clearly in a rut. His father's death had a huge impact on his psychologically. Then came his claim that "Cricket is ruining my life". Given the mess of a system we have here, I would get frustrated too.

But these losses are symptomatic of deeper problems, with a refusal by many to accept that the cricket world has changed, that we must keep up with the times, with new technologies. When Australia set up a Cricket Academy in the 80's, many here laughed. Now look who has the last laugh.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

Well coaching yes, but then you read the bios of Roy Fredericks and Courtney Walsh who worked hard on their game without the assistance of a coach. This was especially so in Roy Frederick's days when you didn't have coaches for every aspect of the game. But these days, Gayle is satisfied with his approach, and has said so. He sees no need to improve his technique..oh well!!

You've got to have a coach these days. You just have to. The game is getting more skilled than ever and is getting better and better all the time. You have got to have a coach in order for you to keep progressing your game like the other players around the world.

Gayle is just an out-and-out slogger. You won't be able to change that. Gayle loves to have a go and when it pays off it's great but more often that not, it doesn't pay off that well.

But, you can't change the way he plays. He'll keep going for it, no matter what the situation.

And lets not underestimate the influence County Cricket had on former Windies players. For example, Maco ( Malcolm Marshall) and many of his peers learnt alot in County Cricket. English conditions were always seen as a litmus test for bowlers and batsmen, and Marshall the craftsman perfected his talent abroad. Then of course you had the Packer Series and to this day Holding talks about the "Packer way" of playing cricket - competitive, take no prisoners approach.

Brian Lara, great batsman though he is, has not been able to motivate his players to be consistently competitive. In my view he should never have been captain, focusing instead on his batting. In his early days as Cappo he was often confused and clearly in a rut. His father's death had a huge impact on his psychologically. Then came his claim that "Cricket is ruining my life". Given the mess of a system we have here, I would get frustrated too.

Brian looks to be the only leader in the side. The rest don't seem as if they'd be able to handle being captain. None of them look ready to take on the role. I'm not really sure why the players aren't motivated by him. He is one of the best players in the world with all the shots but maybe he doesn't instill the players with as much belief as he should.

Or perhaps it's the players who are the problem. It could come down to psychological issues once again.

But these losses are symptomatic of deeper problems, with a refusal by many to accept that the cricket world has changed, that we must keep up with the times, with new technologies. When Australia set up a Cricket Academy in the 80's, many here laughed. Now look who has the last laugh.

All countries should have some sort of an academy now. You've got to have a facility in which you can develop the young, up and coming players and also to help the ones who are already at the top.

In this day and age, you've just got to have one to keep up with the others.

 

[Sunstroke]

Re: Super Eights - West Indies vs Australia

Definitely, coaches are important. But there must also be desire and drive to improve, guidance and willingness to act on advice.

I still have faith in Gayle. I think he can be more than a slogger. Both he and Hayden have a similar build, hit the ball hard, but Hayden's skills - running between wickets, shot selection, chosing gaps etc, are skills Gayle could acquire as well. There are just too many weaknesses in his game, and if he were honest with himself he'd recognize this and seek to do whatever it takes to improve. Perhaps he needs some time off, it should do him the world of good.

Brian Lara has perhaps the most difficult job in the cricket world. Captaining players from different islands, with their own cricket boards and self interest. There's alot going on after the match, behind the scenes that manifests itself on the field of play. Lloyd really knew how to motivate players. When Viv was captain he could simply cuss out men who not performing, these days WI captain doesn't have such liberties.

All countries should have some sort of an academy now. You've got to have a facility in which you can develop the young, up and coming players and also to help the ones who are already at the top.

In this day and age, you've just got to have one to keep up with the others.

No argument from me there. West Indies are woefully behind in this respect.