Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

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Spiderlounge

Spiderlounge

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Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

I've read the Philpott book and seen someblokecalleddave's very helpful videos, and these have been very helpful in showing a way to practise the hand and wrist movements required for a leg break by just spinning a ball from right hand to left. It's been very good for getting the "spinning muscles" working in a co-ordinated fashion, but can anyone advise on similar things I can do, when just chucking a ball around indoors, to get my hand and wrist prepared for other types of delivery?
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;396810 said:
I've read the Philpott book and seen someblokecalleddave's very helpful videos, and these have been very helpful in showing a way to practise the hand and wrist movements required for a leg break by just spinning a ball from right hand to left. It's been very good for getting the "spinning muscles" working in a co-ordinated fashion, but can anyone advise on similar things I can do, when just chucking a ball around indoors, to get my hand and wrist prepared for other types of delivery?
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Keep practising the normal legspin hand to hand and try different wrist positions at release.

If you want to start working on a flipper it pays to start with something smaller and softer than a cricket ball. It is a fact that Warne and Grimmett both worked on their flippers with a tennis ball to get the fingerclick required.

Once you learn how to squeeze a flipper so it shoots out, you have to move outdoors with it if you want to use a six stitcher. That's what i found out when my young bloke went flipper mad here a while ago.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

i dont think its possible to prepare for the Googly in any way other than to actually bowl it. you cant do anything with wrist position spinning between hands, as the shoulder is the main difference in the action. make sure you can spin equally well with and without your thumb on the ball though. removing the thumb will give you more flexibility for the Googly. ive never grasped the delivery though, i can occasionally get one right over half distance at super low speed, but never across 22 yards.

the flipper is easy to learn the hand action for. there are plenty of videos explaining that aspect so im sure youve figured out how to do that already. in terms of actually bowling it though its harder, especially so if youre round arm. the natural rotation of the arm means the ball always wants to come out sideways, so imparting pure backspin with a straight seam is a tough ask. you just have to practice to condition your wrist to compensate in rhythm with the arm so that the wrist keeps the ball straight, even though the arm wants to rotate it side-on.

i found the best way to learn it was to get a tennis ball and put a ring of black tape around it to illustrate the seam. then use the tennis ball over a short distance without a run up. gradually build up to longer distances. then replace the tennis ball with a cricket ball and go back to the short distance, and gradually build up again. never stop practicing spinning between hands with a real cricket ball, but learn the full action with a tennis ball first. its loads easier with a tennis ball, but that also makes it hard when you suddenly increase the size, weight and hardness of the ball and have to adapt your method. the important thing with the tennis ball is that you condition your action without straining your arm muscles initially. youll find that once you start using a real cricket ball you will murder you forearms, and ache like crazy the next day. your muscles get over it after some practice though.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Jim2109;396828 said:
i dont think its possible to prepare for the Googly in any way other than to actually bowl it. you cant do anything with wrist position spinning between hands, as the shoulder is the main difference in the action. make sure you can spin equally well with and without your thumb on the ball though. removing the thumb will give you more flexibility for the Googly. ive never grasped the delivery though, i can occasionally get one right over half distance at super low speed, but never across 22 yards.

the flipper is easy to learn the hand action for. there are plenty of videos explaining that aspect so im sure youve figured out how to do that already. in terms of actually bowling it though its harder, especially so if youre round arm. the natural rotation of the arm means the ball always wants to come out sideways, so imparting pure backspin with a straight seam is a tough ask. you just have to practice to condition your wrist to compensate in rhythm with the arm so that the wrist keeps the ball straight, even though the arm wants to rotate it side-on.

i found the best way to learn it was to get a tennis ball and put a ring of black tape around it to illustrate the seam. then use the tennis ball over a short distance without a run up. gradually build up to longer distances. then replace the tennis ball with a cricket ball and go back to the short distance, and gradually build up again. never stop practicing spinning between hands with a real cricket ball, but learn the full action with a tennis ball first. its loads easier with a tennis ball, but that also makes it hard when you suddenly increase the size, weight and hardness of the ball and have to adapt your method. the important thing with the tennis ball is that you condition your action without straining your arm muscles initially. youll find that once you start using a real cricket ball you will murder you forearms, and ache like crazy the next day. your muscles get over it after some practice though.
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I'm with Jim on this, there's nothing you can really do other than perhaps bowling to a wall a la' Macca which involves a sizeable room and a wall to bowl at with no breakable furniture! The Wrong Un (Googly) involves a kind of full body approach including the dipping of the shoulder and the twisting of the arm for the release to be effective. My current feeling on good advice with the wrong un is to hold it with a loose grip and focus on it coming off that 3rd finger.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;396810 said:
I've read the Philpott book and seen someblokecalleddave's very helpful videos, and these have been very helpful in showing a way to practise the hand and wrist movements required for a leg break by just spinning a ball from right hand to left. It's been very good for getting the "spinning muscles" working in a co-ordinated fashion, but can anyone advise on similar things I can do, when just chucking a ball around indoors, to get my hand and wrist prepared for other types of delivery?
Click to expand...

With the Flipper - as the others have said use something like a tennis ball, you're going to get sore thumb joints and forearms, but you just have to live with it till you get used to it. When it gets really sore, leave it for a few days and then go back to it and watch out for Medial Epicondylitis, do some stretches beforehand - have a look at you tube YouTube - Elbow Pain Rehab Video - Golfers Elbow Stick with the basic versions of the back-spinning variety first, don't try the weird ones till you've got the back-spinner. I'd even say that if you're still not happy with your Leg-break, don't even try either of these yet, work that Leg-Break it's the one that's going to get you wickets.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

You can spin a wrongun hand to hand by pointing your elbow skywards and have the back of your hand facing away from you as the ball leaves the your palm, make sure you catch it if you try it during a game or you might look a bit stupid.
If you watch steve smith he does it a lot as he spins the ball between deliveries.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

macca;396910 said:
You can spin a wrongun hand to hand by pointing your elbow skywards and have the back of your hand facing away from you as the ball leaves the your palm, make sure you catch it if you try it during a game or you might look a bit stupid.
If you watch steve smith he does it a lot as he spins the ball between deliveries.
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I suppose even if I don't actually try to learn the wrong-un just yet (and I'm way too early for that) there's still some use in making it look to the batsman like I'm standing at my mark preparing to bowl one... :D
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;396933 said:
I suppose even if I don't actually try to learn the wrong-un just yet (and I'm way too early for that) there's still some use in making it look to the batsman like I'm standing at my mark preparing to bowl one... :D
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Yeah - anything to play with their minds is worth a go.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

I'm playing around with the flipper, tried bowling a few but they would have been no-balled as throws, but just practising the "snap" action it seems pretty clear I'm in for a seriously blistered thumb... I played around with it for about ten minutes, got a blister, duck-tapped my thumb up and within five minutes the tape was worn through!

I take it that since the flipper mainly relies on aerodynamic effects the amount of spin needs to be pretty hefty?
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

the flipper does rely entirely on aerodynamic effects, as proven by the zooter, or dropping a ball out of your hand.

if you put backspin on a ball whilst propelling it forwards a few feet, it will "stand up" off the pitch, and bounce higher and lose speed.

if you do the same thing with top spin, the ball will zip forwards with more pace off the pitch, and less bounce.

these are the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what happens during actual bowling!! the reason being that aerodynamic effects are more powerful than the effects of a spinning ball when the ball is propelled forwards at speed. you can only spin the ball about the same amount whether you are dropping it from your hand, or propelling it 22 yards. however the forward speed is higher over 22 yards, so the rotations are less, relative to forward velocity. thus the spin has less effect off the pitch.

magnus effect has no effect at all when you drop a ball from your hand, but has a substantial effect over 22 yards. the faster you bowl, the more effect it has. hence faster bowlers get more drift/dip/carry.

when bowling the zooter, i impart more backspin than i do on my flipper. the ball is delivered with a bit more flight however. the combination of increased flight, and increased backspin, means that the ball carries in length a bit, but then stands up off the pitch with a sharp up and down bounce. it does bounce less than my stock leg break though.

the flipper on the other hand has less revs, but is bowled much faster and flatter. therefore it automatically bounces less due to falling less, carries a bit more because its faster, also swings a bit as well, and due to less revs and a flatter trajectory tends to skid off the pitch rather than grip it so hard. hence it stays very low and doesnt lose pace. which is why its so effective for LBW. whilst the zooter is more effective IMO for misjudged shots (e.g. finding edges or batsmen scooping it back to the bowler, mid-on, mid-off, etc). although it can also get LBW or clean bowled if the batsman plays for turn and cant correct his shot.

dont worry too much about how hard you spin the ball on the flipper. the harder aspect is to have control of it without altering your action. as soon as you raise your arm youre going to give the game away. the batsman needs to believe that the ball is a leg break, and that it isnt leaving the hand faster. otherwise they will play you like a medium pacer.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;397414 said:
I'm playing around with the flipper, tried bowling a few but they would have been no-balled as throws, but just practising the "snap" action it seems pretty clear I'm in for a seriously blistered thumb... I played around with it for about ten minutes, got a blister, duck-tapped my thumb up and within five minutes the tape was worn through!

I take it that since the flipper mainly relies on aerodynamic effects the amount of spin needs to be pretty hefty?
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In conjunction with what Jim said have a look at this video of me showing you how the Flipper affects the balls forward momentum. It also demonstrates how much spin you need to be putting on it. YouTube - Clarrie Grimmett Flipper Wrist spin bowling A
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

OK, just been bowling in the garden and a ball which I don't quite know what to call. At the moment I'm calling it the "Baffler" as it seems to be like a "BAby FLippER". Here's how I bowled it:

I bowl it by changing my grip slightly to something more akin to an off-spinner, then at the moment of delivery I rotate my wrist in the opposite direction to a leg break, let the ball stretch my index finger back before pinging forward and underneath the ball. The ball comes out of the hand about 10mph faster than my stock delivery (which is quite slow), with backspin making it float and bounce low. The thumb is hardly involved at all, so it's not a "click-your-fingers" flipper, although the effect seems similar. It's not a particularly well disguised ball as I'm quite clearly putting more effort in, but it looks good for getting someone out bowled or LBW, at my level at least.

I wonder if anyone can tell me what it is exactly?
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;398718 said:
OK, just been bowling in the garden and a ball which I don't quite know what to call. At the moment I'm calling it the "Baffler" as it seems to be like a "BAby FLippER". Here's how I bowled it:

I bowl it by changing my grip slightly to something more akin to an off-spinner, then at the moment of delivery I rotate my wrist in the opposite direction to a leg break, let the ball stretch my index finger back before pinging forward and underneath the ball. The ball comes out of the hand about 10mph faster than my stock delivery (which is quite slow), with backspin making it float and bounce low. The thumb is hardly involved at all, so it's not a "click-your-fingers" flipper, although the effect seems similar. It's not a particularly well disguised ball as I'm quite clearly putting more effort in, but it looks good for getting someone out bowled or LBW, at my level at least.

I wonder if anyone can tell me what it is exactly?
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Have a look at this Ajantha Mendis Carrom ball YouTube - ajanta mendis or this 'The Chotki' YouTube - How to ball off-spin or Danish Kaneria's Flipper YouTube - BigHitterMag.com Danish Kaneria's Master Class. Bowling the flipper

Is it like any of these?
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

someblokecalleddave;398722 said:
Is it like any of these?
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It's most like the flipper, which isn't too surprising as that's what I was aiming at, but it's a different action to how you bowl your flippers, as the thumb's not involved much and you can't just make the ball pop out when your hand's stationary. It needs momentum to push the index finger back ready to catapult it forward and round. I think I probably got it about right when I described it as a baby flipper, but I was mainly wondering if it was a common off-spinner variation that I wasn't aware of.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;398725 said:
It's most like the flipper, which isn't too surprising as that's what I was aiming at, but it's a different action to how you bowl your flippers, as the thumb's not involved much and you can't just make the ball pop out when your hand's stationary. It needs momentum to push the index finger back ready to catapult it forward and round. I think I probably got it about right when I described it as a baby flipper, but I was mainly wondering if it was a common off-spinner variation that I wasn't aware of.
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Yeah we need an Offie to chip in and say whether they bowl a flipper of some sort that's a variation of Grimmetts flippers. I can't even start to even begin to visualise what it is you're doing - we need a photo or clip on your blog showing us what you're up to.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Here's a photo showing the grip, compared to my top-spinner grip:

bafflercomp.PNG


I'm sure it's not a flipper as everything I've read talks about how difficult that is to learn, but the effect is identical to a back-spun flipper and it's relatively easy to bowl.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

looks like a flipper to me?! if youre saying that you dont use the thumb so much, but use the first and middle fingers more prominently, then its basically a flipper using an off spin grip and not bringing the thumb into play so much.

youll get more revs using the thumb though than without it.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

It has two stages: firstly the wrist rotates round with thumb and middle finger transmitting the torque, then once those have turned beyond the point that they can get any useful purchase on the ball it's all about the first finger for the final stage - the ball essentially floats on this finger, pushing it back before is springs forward and round, flinging the ball straight out with backspin.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;398732 said:
It has two stages: firstly the wrist rotates round with thumb and middle finger transmitting the torque, then once those have turned beyond the point that they can get any useful purchase on the ball it's all about the first finger for the final stage - the ball essentially floats on this finger, pushing it back before is springs forward and round, flinging the ball straight out with backspin.
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Yeah that looks unusual, Mas was suggesting coming up with a new spin variation seems like in one night we may have come up with 2!
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

I think I may have got on top of the flipper action now. I haven't actually bowled it yet but I've got it going hand to hand. Just to make sure, is my thumb supposed to roll forwards and around the top of the ball, then give it a nudge on it's way?

Compared with the "baffler" I don't get as much spin, but I guess that's just a question of practise. Also the "baffler" travels a bit quicker out of the hand because of elastic energy stored in the index finger, but this new action is much better disguised as thumb aside the grip is identical to my normal leg-break. It's also not as dependent on the direction in which it's bowled - the "baffler" is only likely to work for backspinners and back-spun off/leg-breaks which turn just a little, as it needs the finger to push the ball in the direction it's aimed in.

I've also got a sort of four-finger flipper (a la Clarie Grimmett) on the go, only I've got one advantage over the old maestro - my fingers don't have and have never had the ability to make a clicking sound :D
 
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