Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by Richard the Third, Feb 19, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Video's 80% uploaded it'll be ready soon. Far more representative of my bowling.
     
  2. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    In many ways I'm in the same position. I never had a very productive run up and my wrist didn't cock as much as it should have done, but I never bothered to work on. There are things I am putting right at the moment. It does feel a bit like starting from scratch, but it isn't. There's lots of work done that someone starting from scratch doesn't have.

    You're right though. That MacGill video does cover the things that are important and anyone coming the legspin could do worse than follow everything he says. In many ways, he is a much better bowler to emulate than Warne is.
     
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  3. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    There's lots of shoulder work that can be done and work on strengthening that muscle that's been spoken about (the gluteus medius muscle on the hips).
     
  4. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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  5. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Watching the one day highlights now, be back soon...
     
  6. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    On that note, I did about 20 mins of work today that culminated in a run up and jump into the crease (my old relaxed approach). Every ball came out nicely and it all felt pretty good. Here's a few clips:





     
  7. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    I loved that big toe end-on 0.23. I laughed plenty at that footballing interlude!

    Looks a lot better from over the wicket. That ball just before the football rolls to you looks pretty good to me. It seemed to just drift in a bit at the end. It landed on the mat and that line and length is perfect for that type of delivery. No batter can go after that without it being risky.
     
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  8. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Two of the vids don't play... Message says 'This video is private'.
     
  9. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    ahh, I forgot to make them public. All sorted now.
     
  10. leftie600

    leftie600 Active Member

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    Like where that action is going, bit of Mushtaq Ahmed to it.

    I've got some advice below which you should take a grain of salt as all bowling actions are unique.

    One comment, which repeats what Cleanprophet has said, try to follow through at your target. There's a couple of reasons for this:
    • Spin - When you fall away from your right to your left your bowling arm compensates by slightly coming through at an angle that favours topspin over legspin.
    • Accuracy - Let's say your perfect follow through goes at 20 degrees (where 0 degrees is toward your target), how do you actually know when you are going at 20 degrees? By following through at your target you have a point of reference you can consistently look to when bowling. By following through at an undefined target you are completely reliant on it just feeling good.
     
  11. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Main thing was I stopped all running, and about six years. It's still not 100%. I heard a rule of thumb was that once it's a chronic problem it will take as long to heal as it has been chronic. I had really battered it.
     
  12. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I think there is an important issue here. What I think you are doing is trying to pivot before the ball is released. This would be a big mistake, and I don't care who has said otherwise. It's a cannonball / canoe type situation.

    Really the pivot is not important in and of itself. What it is important is powering through the release with your left heel fully grounded. Then once you have released the ball, you have all this rotation going on, it has to go somewhere so the comfortable way to deal with it is to go up on the toe and pivot.

    What I suspect you are doing is unweighting the heel early to initiate the pivot, then as you bowl there's little grounding, then once you have released the ball there's not much rotational energy going on - but I think you are wanting to pivot, so what is happening instead is that you have created this monster lean to the left, and you steer yourself into pivoting with your bowling arm as you fall over.

    Plausible?

    To check your pivoting I suggest a little one step fully round arm practice. Bowling fully round arm it should be intuitive that you rotate with the left heel planted, bowl, and then pivot on the follow-through and a simple matter to get the form of it.

    It looks good from the arm up - some nice turn.
     
  13. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Spin - yep I bowl with more over-spin generally and I'm okay with that for the moment.
    Follow through. 2 thoughts on that. (a). I might be exaggerating it because I'm automatically thinking about the next ball behind me and there may be a bit of heading left to get the next ball. I think when I bowl in matches I follow through straighter, not entirely sure though. (b). Generally I don't think about the follow through and it may be something to work on later if someone was to say 'Mate when you're bowling you don't follow through properly - you veer off'. But as yet in a game situation that's never happened.

    I'm devising a plan at the moment with several stages, I'll give it some thought and post it up later, but what I don't want to be doing is running in with it in mind that I've got to do a, b, c and d. I'm going to approach it a stage at a time. I think the next step is to get more side on out of the bound. It seems that when I go through the action without a ball in my hand and therefore totally unconcerned about the outcome - my bowling action is very different; feeling far more dynamic and explosive. I may have to video it and have a look, what I do know is as soon as the ball is in my hand the action is very different.:confused:
     
  14. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Again this is one of those issues that I've not had this year - I've just been bowling and whether I pivot or not has been there in my mind, the outcome prior to the Achilles injury was always really good. You're right in that if I think about it, it then suddenly becomes an issue and that timing aspect is obviously crucial. The around the wicket vid has edited deliveries where I tried this and all of the balls went 4-5' wide of the legside, so if I think about and try and incorporate the pivot and getting up on the toes it does go very wrong. It's very different though when I bowl off of 1 step a la' Jenner or use the stand-start - far better with improvement with spin when I get up on the toe in the pivot, but doing so off of one step or a stand start is so much easier regards timing.
     
  15. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    I'll take that! Just had a look at him... Short run-up, very energetic through the crease and then interestingly falls away to his left.
     
  16. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    yes - and I'm still learning how to keep form after including a run-up. It's not easy.

    I do suggest this alternative way of thinking about it though. Instead of thinking 'pivot', think 'screw the front foot into the ground'. Imagine that your front foot is tightening a giant screw :) This is how you generate the rotational force. Pushing the ground one way makes your body go the other! Then after release you can just allow yourself to pivot - there is nothing to be forced there, it should feel very natural.

    I hope this helps
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
  17. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    It may do when I get to that part. As I said earlier I've got a plan. Basically I'm building the action step by step and I have to repeat what I said earlier without any real coach watching and commenting I don't know whether the order is the right order or whether there should be a 'Correct' sequence to work with if any at all. So basically...

    Stage 1; Hone the 3 step and bound run up. Don't deviate, don't change, don't revert back to anything else, it feels right, it's the results of the method suggested in the McGrath video. This is how I bowl from now on, not shorter, not longer, always 3 steps and then the bound. That then becomes the basis from which everything else builds upon - the foundation as such.

    At the moment with all of the work that I've been doing (I've just come in from videoing 200 + deliveries) it is definitely coming together and feels totally as though I'm on the right track.

    Stage 2: Having watched last nights video I uploaded and taking on board everything you've all been saying I've decided that the first building block to add to my new 'Sound' foundation is the leading arm. It looked at it and it looked weak and wrong and someone else made a similar point. So just now, I was back at the ground and bowled 200 + balls with the new action with the only other focus of attention being the leading arm. I tried doing a number of things, but the thing that resonated and seemed to work was a bit of advice in the Beau Casson video (I think)? He advises reaching out and up and that seemed to work, so hopefully later on when I've edited the videos, this addition to the new approach to the crease might be apparent. It seemed to be because I bowled a lot better today, but that may be in part to just more bowling and a gradual increase in fitness over the last 4 days of bowling?
     
  18. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    200 + balls and another hour of bowling today working with that leading arm specifically and I'm here...

    There's tons of other stuff that can be commented on, I thought the movement through the crease looked particularly weak as others had mentioned, especially if you see it from another angle (Coming later). But I had a look at Mushtaq Ahmed's bowling after Leftie made the comparison and his action through the crease is very different to the dynamism you see in Warne or MacGills bowling.
    In this video all I tried to do was reach forwards and upwards and there seemed to be some benefit, it'll be interesting to hear what you all say.
     
  19. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I just threw a few balls down in the nets, not very focused and it came out like that.

    However I did try my own analogy of screwing the front foot into the ground (clockwise), and found that it invariably produces a pivot, just as night follows day.
     
  20. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Absolutely. It does more harm than good to try and have 3 or 4 things in mind when bowling, even at a relaxed pace. You can end up doing none of them quite as you want to. Better to do just the one and get it right.

    Yeah, that was more or less the same for me too and, I imagine, most people. I kept my wrist cocked and flicked it open with more energy when the ball wasn't in my hand. It's probably largely psychological. Without the ball and any target, you will be fully relaxed. Introduce the ball and a target and you instantly change things. I suppose the aim is to try and replicate that relaxation when bowling the ball. Easier said than done of course, but at least you know how relaxed you need to feel to bowl as you really need to.

    As for that follow through. Just to make sure, put the balls to your right (that's where I always put them), in case you are following through with the thoughts of collecting the next ball to go again. Also, to me, it almost looks as if you are trying to put the ball there rather than bowl it there and that's why that bowling arm comes right the way around, almost like a bit of an exaggerated follow through that takes your arm to the left and the body follows - as opposed to the arm moving there because of the force generated in the action, if that makes any sense?
     
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Put it out there