Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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someblokecalleddave said:
I did okay today in my first game albeit a friendly. 4-0-14-2 and edge to slips from a leg break playing with a straight bat and an LBW off a really full top-spinner. We lost though badly short by about 50-60 runs. Had a decent bat though (for me) batting at No.9 (10 players) me and a kid frustrated the bowlers for several overs and I score a few runs. Scoring was atrocious though, they had me down as having bowled 10 overs in 2 spells and one poor kid wasn't even recorded! My son Ben bowled 2 spells as well. Bring on League cricket in a couple of weeks, I'm up for it now!
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Sounds like one of my club's friendly games! I remember someone played their first game of cricket in a friendly for us last season. He took a great catch and ran somebody out. The scorer gave both impressive bits of fielding to someone else!

I could have played a game yesterday for the 3rds as they needed a spinner (I wish I had now :( ). By all accounts, they came undone at the hands of a young legspinner who was supposed to be a very impressive bowler (I think he was only about 12yo or 13yo as well). Typical 3rd team batting I believe with nonsense slogging and zero respect for bowling.
 
Cleanprophet said:
Sounds like one of my club's friendly games! I remember someone played their first game of cricket in a friendly for us last season. He took a great catch and ran somebody out. The scorer gave both impressive bits of fielding to someone else!

I could have played a game yesterday for the 3rds as they needed a spinner (I wish I had now :( ). By all accounts, they came undone at the hands of a young legspinner who was supposed to be a very impressive bowler (I think he was only about 12yo or 13yo as well). Typical 3rd team batting I believe with nonsense slogging and zero respect for bowling.
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That is one of those stories you here again and again. I remember the most impressive one was a few years back at Grays & Chadwell, a kid called Callum White I think went off with one of our Sunday teams and came back when we were still playing our first innings. He'd taken the top order down to No.6 for about 15 runs and then the tail fell to the quicks cheaply. He did that a few times as I recall - he was only about 13.
 
Cleanprophet said:
Sounds like one of my club's friendly games! I remember someone played their first game of cricket in a friendly for us last season. He took a great catch and ran somebody out. The scorer gave both impressive bits of fielding to someone else!

I could have played a game yesterday for the 3rds as they needed a spinner (I wish I had now :( ). By all accounts, they came undone at the hands of a young legspinner who was supposed to be a very impressive bowler (I think he was only about 12yo or 13yo as well). Typical 3rd team batting I believe with nonsense slogging and zero respect for bowling.
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Batting against spin is funny. If you take the time to learn how to do it, its the easiest thing in the world, its basically free runs. If you don't, you'll look like an idiot over and over and over again.

When a spin bowler comes on, it always splits emotions. Half the batsmen grin, half the batsmen groan. I always think "I wonder how many runs I can hit off an over without him being taken off". My strategy is to hit a few boundaries and then pretend to play and miss at the last ball. If you're convincing you can keep persuading the captain to keep him on and add 30-40 free runs to your total before he finally gets the hook.
 
Darth Spin said:
Grrrr. I asked for it, didn't I? SLA and Dave were right. Football sucks.
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As a kid I was a Chelsea fan (FA Cup 1970 - real football) but it all went down hill once they started being paid silly money (SKY)? I watched the highlights but almost had a Bill Grundy moment when Shearer at the end in the review said "Did you see Lampard though".... On comes a clip where we see Lampard run quite fast for about 10 seconds. "The commitment of that man, he's thirty five". Jesus! You'd hope so what with him being paid £56,000 a day for running around and kicking a ball, I'd expect for that much he'd run like a something that was beyond human comprehension. Unbelievable:confused:
 
Just had a bowl on the paddock. For the life of me I cannot settle into a run-up or an approach to the crease that feels good/right. Bowling was okay once I settled in a bit, but the run up definitely needs work. Saw some drift again when I come in off a very short run up.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Just had a bowl on the paddock. For the life of me I cannot settle into a run-up or an approach to the crease that feels good/right. Bowling was okay once I settled in a bit, but the run up definitely needs work. Saw some drift again when I come in off a very short run up.
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I always find the switch from indoor nets to outdoor bowling an absolute nightmare. Moving from bowling in trainers on a hard surface to bowling in spikes on soft grassy ground is so difficult to adjust to as a spinner. I do the same things, but the extra effort required to simply move around means I arrive at the crease almost stationary and bowl a load of junk.
 
SLA said:
My strategy is to hit a few boundaries and then pretend to play and miss at the last ball. If you're convincing you can keep persuading the captain to keep him on and add 30-40 free runs to your total before he finally gets the hook.
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The ECB could do with you teaching English batters how to play spin. Sounds like you could teach them all a thing or two.

someblokecalleddave said:
As a kid I was a Chelsea fan (FA Cup 1970 - real football) but it all went down hill once they started being paid silly money (SKY)? I watched the highlights but almost had a Bill Grundy moment when Shearer at the end in the review said "Did you see Lampard though".... On comes a clip where we see Lampard run quite fast for about 10 seconds. "The commitment of that man, he's thirty five". Jesus! You'd hope so what with him being paid £56,000 a day for running around and kicking a ball, I'd expect for that much he'd run like a something that was beyond human comprehension. Unbelievable:confused:
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A lot of top long distance runners are well into their 30's. It is funny when they talk about players 35yo and are amazed that they can cope with Premier League football. They've been going on about Gerrard having to adapt his game now because of his age and he's 33yo. Madness.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Just had a bowl on the paddock. For the life of me I cannot settle into a run-up or an approach to the crease that feels good/right. Bowling was okay once I settled in a bit, but the run up definitely needs work. Saw some drift again when I come in off a very short run up.
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It's funny you should talk about a short run up. I did about 45mins of bowling tonight against a batter and decided to try a longer run up. My normal approach to the crease is probably only about 3 paces and then I'm into my delivery stride. I came off about 6 or 7 paces and tried to hit the crease with a touch more pace. Seemed to work quite well. I used the crease a bit more too, going wide with a few deliveries. In general, I just used it as match practice rather drilling technique. Plenty of variation in angle, pace and flight. It was coming out as well as it ever has.

I grip the ball quite loosely and that puts plenty of strain on the fingers, especially the metacarpus of the spinning finger. It's just over a month of bowling for me since I had a month off with a shoulder injury and it's only in the last few days that I've been able to bowl without discomfort in that metacarpus. I didn't think it would take me a month to build up strength in my fingers again, but I realised that month off was the longest I've gone without bowling for nearly 3 years!
 
The two kids that bowl spin in my 4th XI team both played in the same match as me and took a wicket each, but whilst I went for a decent amount of runs 14 off of 4 overs they both got smacked around the park with people hitting 4's and 6's off of them and yet they turn it a lot more than me. It looked to me as though they were bowling a threatening line if the ball wasn't turning, but it was, and they were both spinning it hard and the batsman were standing forward as they came in and then stepping back giving themselves room and smashing it. I spoke to one of them in the game when they were bowling (Chinaman) and asked if he had a top-spinner and he said no and shrugged his shoulders as if he wasn't even sure if he had or not, or what a top-spinner was. But he did say 'Show me in the nets'? So, hopefully tomorrow one of them will buy into it, work on it and have a variation to give them more options. I know the other kid Frank, knows about the Toppie, but I'm not sure if he's ever worked with it for any length of time to develop it? I might have a word with him and just try and get him to think in terms of dishing up a ball that turns less?
 
Cleanprophet said:
The ECB could do with you teaching English batters how to play spin. Sounds like you could teach them all a thing or two.
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Its more the fact that you rarely see any genuinely good spinners at lower-middle amateur levels. The ones that are here, tend to just get by on the fact that 3/4s of batsmen have never been taught to play spin properly.

I find this as a bowler: 3/4s of batsmen at this level seem completely clueless how to play me. The other 1 in 4, if I don't get them in the first couple of overs, I might as well just tell the skipper to give someone else a go.


Having said that, I still see a lot of nonsense talked about how to play spin bowling even from high level coaches. Different countries seem obsessed with one shot. In Aus they seem obsessed with coming down the wicket, in this country we seem obsessed with the bloody sweep shot.

Playing spin is not the same as playing pace but with one additional shot. Its a completely different set of initial movements. If you don't understand that you're never going to get anywhere.
 
SLA said:
Batting against spin is funny. If you take the time to learn how to do it, its the easiest thing in the world, its basically free runs. If you don't, you'll look like an idiot over and over and over again.

When a spin bowler comes on, it always splits emotions. Half the batsmen grin, half the batsmen groan. I always think "I wonder how many runs I can hit off an over without him being taken off". My strategy is to hit a few boundaries and then pretend to play and miss at the last ball. If you're convincing you can keep persuading the captain to keep him on and add 30-40 free runs to your total before he finally gets the hook.
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Great strategy :) the last ball does carry extra weight psychologically

What's your secret?
 
someblokecalleddave said:
As a kid I was a Chelsea fan (FA Cup 1970 - real football) but it all went down hill once they started being paid silly money (SKY)? I watched the highlights but almost had a Bill Grundy moment when Shearer at the end in the review said "Did you see Lampard though".... On comes a clip where we see Lampard run quite fast for about 10 seconds. "The commitment of that man, he's thirty five". Jesus! You'd hope so what with him being paid £56,000 a day for running around and kicking a ball, I'd expect for that much he'd run like a something that was beyond human comprehension. Unbelievable:confused:
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Haha. Yeah, the hyperbole is ridiculous around the game and silly things are said often. Still can't help watching it, though.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Just had a bowl on the paddock. For the life of me I cannot settle into a run-up or an approach to the crease that feels good/right. Bowling was okay once I settled in a bit, but the run up definitely needs work. Saw some drift again when I come in off a very short run up.
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I had this problem and have now added two steps to my run up. I am much happier with the pace and consistency of my bowling. I am getting used to the pace I need to be moving at, how much acceleration to use and how to time getting side on, which I am leaving to the last moment, in order to bowl a big turning leg break consistently. I also changed how I pull my front arm down having studied Terry Jenner and Shane Warne and that has helped too. All this means I am able to bowl a bigger turning leg break as my stock ball now, and then I can change down to a lower angle of spin for a smaller leggie which used to be my stock ball. I'm gonna try this out in the middle soon in a match and see what happens.

I agree with SLA that roughly 3/4 batsman in club cricket do not play spin well. I'd say with around 40% of them their eyes light up and they want to smash you back past your head over that large tree. Another 40% don't know what to do and switch haphazardly between defence and attack. And the rest can play a bit and will whack you if you bowl too short or full, but are still vulnerable to good deliveries.
 
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Darth Spin said:
I had this problem and have now added two steps to my run up. I am much happier with the pace and consistency of my bowling. I am getting used to the pace I need to be moving at, how much acceleration to use and how to time getting side on, which I am leaving to the last moment, in order to bowl a big turning leg break consistently. I also changed how I pull my front arm down having studied Terry Jenner and Shane Warne and that has helped too. All this means I am able to bowl a bigger turning leg break as my stock ball now, and then I can change down to a lower angle of spin for a smaller leggie which used to be my stock ball. I'm gonna try this out in the middle soon in a match and see what happens.

I agree with SLA that roughly 3/4 batsman in club cricket do not play spin well. I'd say with around 40% of them their eyes light up and they want to smash you back past your head over that large tree. Another 40% don't know what to do and switch haphazardly between defence and attack. And the rest can play a bit and will whack you if you bowl too short or full, but are still vulnerable to good deliveries.
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Sounds like you're doing well, I'm fluctuating between optimism and depression every time I go out and have a bowl. Nets at our club tonight, means you're waiting around far too long to have your next ball, for me it's too long and I start to think too much about the last ball, rather than just getting on with it and getting into a rhythm. By the end of the night I'd somehow managed to get into a situation where my leading arm was all over the shop - didn't know what to do with it - it was as though somehow it had just arrived and was new and not a part of my bowling action! Glad to have come away from the session and come home! I'm going to have a look at Jenner now and see what I need to do to get back on track.:confused:
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Sounds like you're doing well, I'm fluctuating between optimism and depression every time I go out and have a bowl. Nets at our club tonight, means you're waiting around far too long to have your next ball, for me it's too long and I start to think too much about the last ball, rather than just getting on with it and getting into a rhythm. By the end of the night I'd somehow managed to get into a situation where my leading arm was all over the shop - didn't know what to do with it - it was as though somehow it had just arrived and was new and not a part of my bowling action! Glad to have come away from the session and come home! I'm going to have a look at Jenner now and see what I need to do to get back on track.:confused:
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Again this sounds familiar to me. I really didn't bowl as much as I should have done over winter. It was weird because I was fine in the nets but as soon as I was on my own outdoors in the tennis courts I started having serious problems. But then I forgot about them, added two steps to my run up and just bowled for hours until it came together again. And now I can't get enough of practicing because the ball is doing what I want it to do. Tonight I stepped up and bowled 5 leg breaks and a wrong un straight away, all good line and length.

Sometimes you can think about it too much, other times things need looking at and tweaking. It's a hard balancing act. But the best solution is usually just to bowl as much as possible.

Although practice is going well I'll still be nervous when it comes to bowling in a match, have my first scheduled for this Sunday if the weather doesn't strike again. I got a couple of spankings early last season in t20 games when nerves got the better of me, which was weird because I'd taken three wickets in my first match so should have been confident. It's always tricky to reproduce best form from the nets into a match, I find. But if I do manage it I'm usually in business.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Nets at our club tonight, means you're waiting around far too long to have your next ball, for me it's too long and I start to think too much about the last ball, rather than just getting on with it and getting into a rhythm.
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That's like my club's winter nets. In the summer, we have a four lane netting area and grass net out in the middle, so it's usually no more than about 3 bowlers in each lane. In the winter nets there are only two lanes and you can end up with 7 or even 8 bowlers in each one. That means you're waiting the best part of 5mins between deliveries. That's far too long for me so I don't bother with the winter nets. I just go down to the outdoor nets in the daytime and do some bowling on my own or try to get a batter down there and have a bowl to him.

For me, the problems wasn't thinking or worrying about my last delivery but not getting any rhythm.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Sounds like you're doing well, I'm fluctuating between optimism and depression every time I go out and have a bowl. Nets at our club tonight, means you're waiting around far too long to have your next ball, for me it's too long and I start to think too much about the last ball, rather than just getting on with it and getting into a rhythm. By the end of the night I'd somehow managed to get into a situation where my leading arm was all over the shop - didn't know what to do with it - it was as though somehow it had just arrived and was new and not a part of my bowling action! Glad to have come away from the session and come home! I'm going to have a look at Jenner now and see what I need to do to get back on track.:confused:
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Do you think your problem of constantly overthinking your action is something that probably happens to anyone who learns to bowl in later life? Perhaps this is why it is easier to teach kids than adults.
 
SLA said:
I don't think there really is a secret, other than "don't play it like its a slower version of fast bowling".
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I would say
1) Can you hit it on the full? If so do, go for boundary leaving crease if necessary
If not
2) Can you play back comfortably? If so do, give yourself room in case of off break / googly. Hit for whatever possible
If not
3) play forwards to smother the spin. Be wary of straight driving if the ball is turning. Sweep, slog sweep are sound in that they nullify turn. If you do drive then account for turn as you do

That's what I wouldn't want a batsman to do
 
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