Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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Yeah left handers very difficult. At our club there's an under 13 LH bat who bowls wrist spin and he's in the same team as my older son and I get on with his Dad. As a result at the club I'm kind of un-officially in charge of his development as a spinner, so we get to have a knock about with him all the time. In the 2 years we've been doing that I've never bowled him once, but in my defence he is an exceptionally good batsman. On numerous ocassions I've been bowling brilliant spells and taking wickets only for all the good work to be undone by the arrival of a LH bat at the crease. I hate em!
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
@dave or @ macca do you know how round arm grimmet was ? Did he get enough bounce ? which bowling style would you prefer grimmet or warne ?
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Malinga low, yeah it went up before it came down with drift and dip, he got more than enough bounce, he was potentially the best ever wrist spinners there has ever been. Personally, I'm not a fan of Grimmetts action or how it looks and wouldn't advocate anyone trying to emulate it, but on the other hand I'd say the same thing about Warnes bowling, don't try and copy it! With regards the angle of the arm - it's a case of what suits you - each approach has its benefits. Benaud - for instance had a very vertical arm and Stuart Macgill here has a very vertical arm - yet they both had/have a good wrong-un, whereas with the lower arm angle the wrong un becomes more problematic to bowl. I reckon the best option is to have your arm around the angle Warne bowls with, but at club level you might get away with varying it in order to bowl the Wrong Un? The low arm - gives you other benefits - the potential for the UFO ball - that'll skid on.
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
@dave or @ macca do you know how round arm grimmet was ? Did he get enough bounce ? which bowling style would you prefer grimmet or warne ?
Click to expand...

Grimmett was a one off bowling genius like Warne. I wouldn't try and copy Grimmetts action, very roundarm and no great use of the left arm. Warne had a more classical bowling action.

Their first class bowling figures are very similar in the amount of balls delivered and wickets taken in their careers. Grimmetts figures are slightly better.

One of the most incredible Grimmett stats was he despatched Bradman 10 times in first class cricket, only Englands Hedley Verity and on some real stickies, got Bradman out that many times. That is despite the fact bradman and grimmett both played most of their careers with the same club, state and national teams.
 
That video is fantastic great find Dave, Smith must be getting so much from him even in a short twenty20 comp. Have a look at the wicket at about 28 seconds in, a stumping off a beauty of a wrong 'un, just watch the umpire wet himself over the clear bamboozlement of the batsman.
 
@ macca, @dave can you guys give a brief explanation on warnes bowling action ? How he gets the amazing drift,dip and spin ? And i would also like to talk about the arm postion
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
@ macca, @dave can you guys give a brief explanation on warnes bowling action ? How he gets the amazing drift,dip and spin ? And i would also like to talk about the arm postion
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Whoa! Now there's an ask! I've got a whole thread somewhere on here asking the world that question and no-one can quite give me the answer in the way that I'd be happy with. There's several ways of answering it - the technical way - talking about the Magnus Force and laminar flows across balls with seams using physics. Or talking about it in terms of empirical observations from practice in the field in situ. Or looking at the attempts by bowlers/coaches to combine both methods (Science/Practice) to come up with a set of explanations which are universally understood by all of us, including dopey old blokes like me, which is my preferred option. Having said that no-one has succeeded as far as I'm personally concerned and I would like to see more evidence offered by real practitioners using modern technology. It could be put to bed by Shane Warne in a very short amount of time with the use of a high-speed camera or two or maybe a lesser bowler? Both here in the UK and Australia there are spin programmes where they are looking to develop spin bowling and it seems daft to me that both these organisations wouldn't have had analysis produced to gather the kind of data that would finally evidence the optimum way that the ball should be spun to produce maximum drift? Maybe it out there somewhere owned by the ECB or the Aussies, but they're just not letting on?

Other than that just go with the 'Spin it hard' option and it will drift sometimes. But for me that's just a bit basic and I would like to know absolutely how you increase the potential for drift other than just being advised 'Spin it hard'.

Click on the link above and watch the bit at the end of the video where the old bloke makes the ball drift side-ways, note how slowly the ball is spinning and yet it goes miles, baseball is similar, they hardly put any spin on the ball, yet it drifts massively.

My suspicion is that a hard spun ball with the ball at 45 degrees is going to have a very useful combination of top-spin to make best use of the magnus effect to get the ball to dip viciously whilst the 45 degree angle of the seam in relation to it flight direction will produce drift 'Sometimes'.
 
TheCat said:
That video is fantastic great find Dave, Smith must be getting so much from him even in a short twenty20 comp. Have a look at the wicket at about 28 seconds in, a stumping off a beauty of a wrong 'un, just watch the umpire wet himself over the clear bamboozlement of the batsman.
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Apparently the video was uploaded by Macgill himself -he mentions it in this article in the Sydney Morning Herald here - http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket...make-impossible-look-easy-20120218-1tftb.html he also mentions Robelindas channel by the sounds of it. Maybe one of us could follow the channel link and email Macgill and ask him some questions?

I've done it - I've just sent him a message asking some Q's about drift. We'll have to see what the response is to judge whether it is him or whether someones posted the vids on his behalf.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Whoa! Now there's an ask! I've got a whole thread somewhere on here asking the world that question and no-one can quite give me the answer in the way that I'd be happy with. There's several ways of answering it - the technical way - talking about the Magnus Force and laminar flows across balls with seams using physics. Or talking about it in terms of empirical observations from practice in the field in situ. Or looking at the attempts by bowlers/coaches to combine both methods (Science/Practice) to come up with a set of explanations which are universally understood by all of us, including dopey old blokes like me, which is my preferred option. Having said that no-one has succeeded as far as I'm personally concerned and I would like to see more evidence offered by real practitioners using modern technology. It could be put to bed by Shane Warne in a very short amount of time with the use of a high-speed camera or two or maybe a lesser bowler? Both here in the UK and Australia there are spin programmes where they are looking to develop spin bowling and it seems daft to me that both these organisations wouldn't have had analysis produced to gather the kind of data that would finally evidence the optimum way that the ball should be spun to produce maximum drift? Maybe it out there somewhere owned by the ECB or the Aussies, but they're just not letting on?

Other than that just go with the 'Spin it hard' option and it will drift sometimes. But for me that's just a bit basic and I would like to know absolutely how you increase the potential for drift other than just being advised 'Spin it hard'.

Click on the link above and watch the bit at the end of the video where the old bloke makes the ball drift side-ways, note how slowly the ball is spinning and yet it goes miles, baseball is similar, they hardly put any spin on the ball, yet it drifts massively.

My suspicion is that a hard spun ball with the ball at 45 degrees is going to have a very useful combination of top-spin to make best use of the magnus effect to get the ball to dip viciously whilst the 45 degree angle of the seam in relation to it flight direction will produce drift 'Sometimes'.
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That was a great thread on warnes drift,what about his action ? :p
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
@ macca can you also give a brief explanation of WARNE's bowling action :D
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What can you say other than it's recognised as being pretty much perfect because of the results that he gets and the fact that he's still able to do much of it even now into his 40's, suggesting that as an example of biomechanics it's efficient in what he gets it to do. I don't really understand what you're asking for though, it's such a potentially complex answer or it's simply..... He walks up, has a burst of speed through his bowling action, which includes a bound, in the bound he lands with his foot side on - so his body is side on. The pivot foot lands facing the bat using a relatively long stride, he gets up on his toes in the pivot and rotates 180 degrees with shoulders and hips in unison (I think) brings the arm over and through past the hips and fades through the follow through. During the action his head is steady and relatively level and most of the energy is going forwards. Watch the videos you'll see.:)
 
someblokecalleddave said:
What can you say other than it's recognised as being pretty much perfect because of the results that he gets and the fact that he's still able to do much of it even now into his 40's, suggesting that as an example of biomechanics it's efficient in what he gets it to do. I don't really understand what you're asking for though, it's such a potentially complex answer or it's simply..... He walks up, has a burst of speed through his bowling action, which includes a bound, in the bound he lands with his foot side on - so his body is side on. The pivot foot lands facing the bat using a relatively long stride, he gets up on his toes in the pivot and rotates 180 degrees with shoulders and hips in unison (I think) brings the arm over and through past the hips and fades through the follow through. During the action his head is steady and relatively level and most of the energy is going forwards. Watch the videos you'll see.:)
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That is a very good description Dave. I think our good friend funk192's slo mo gives a great view of Warnes style.
 
guys have a look at this...

Nice! Not sure re the revs, the more important question I feel is -

1. Is it the revs on the ball that create that late drift or...
2. Is it the seam presentation that increases the potential for the ball to drift or
3. Is it the speed?
 
someblokecalleddave said:
guys have a look at this...

Nice! Not sure re the revs, the more important question I feel is -

1. Is it the revs on the ball that create that late drift or...
2. Is it the seam presentation that increases the potential for the ball to drift or
3. Is it the speed?
Click to expand...

I think it is a combination all of the above.If you want to get the latest drift you should have the perfect seam position.If there is no enough revs on the ball the magnus effect wont come into play. As far as the speed Warne said "The pcae should be in which you get your maximum spin. So,it is a combination.If one of the element is lacking you might not get your late drift :)
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
I think it is a combination all of the above.If you want to get the latest drift you should have the perfect seam position.If there is no enough revs on the ball the magnus effect wont come into play. As far as the speed Warne said "The pcae should be in which you get your maximum spin. So,it is a combination.If one of the element is lacking you might not get your late drift :)
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Sarady, what do you reckon in your experience is the best seam position to produce the optimum drift?
 
Big semi final today for my sons team. He's bowling in good form so with a bit of luck something might happen today. 7/97 off 38 overs is his tally so far.
 
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