Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

[Jim2109]

Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

whos the Qld leg spinner beginning with Z? i know theyve got Cameron Boyce, but i didnt know there was another promising leggie coming through. Steve Smith has to be in with a shout of getting a test spot for the Ashes, his batting certainly isnt going to do him any harm, its just a question of whether they risk youth or stick with Hauritz and his experience. if theres a test where they play 2 spinners though hes got to be in. i wouldnt bet against England taking Adil Rashid either, hes been outstanding in county cricket this summer, hes top of the county championship (4-day) rankings and 2nd highest wicket taker, and 2nd overall in the rankings in all competitions. hes performing far better than Tredwell, Panesar and Yardy who are probably his main rivals.

good to hear your youngster is making good progress. with regards "gaining" pace off the pitch, ive faced a few slow-medium seamers lately that look to be very slow but then the ball is on you really fast. whereas my own bowling is quite fast for club leg spin, but batsmen seem to have forever to play me. i wonder if its just a perception thing based on the action of the bowler. a bowler with a very busy action that bends their back and look to be putting in lots of effort will cause a batsman to expect a quicker ball, so they are ready and waiting (this probably best describes my old action). whereas a bowler with a very efficient action wont look like they are exerting themselves as much, but then the ball is on you before you expect. based on that id imagine that more pace than expected is a sign of a solid action in a leg spinner.

the areas that ive been changing in my action pretty much all relate to transfer of momentum and generating more power from my body, rather than relying on my arm so heavily. when making up a video to show to Liz Ward for some injury-prevention advice i checked the speeds, and im actually 3mph faster (41mph average across the first 10 yards) off of a VERY low effort no-run-up delivery, than i was off of full effort full run(walk)-up deliveries prior to the alterations. to look at me, youd think i was bowling a lot slower than before, which illustrates my point above.

another thing that can potentially make a batsman seem faster is one that flights the ball well and gets lots of movement in the air, and especially dip. as a batsman you are forced to wait for the ball as you arent sure where it will pitch, and then its on you quickly because you made your decision later. if it has added bounce as well then that always gives the perception of extra pace as well. again, all aspects of good leg spin bowling.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i had another good net session yesterday evening. my action is still a major work in progress, but ive never made as much progress in such a short time as i have in the last 2 sessions.

i was just bowling off of 2 steps again for the majority of the time, then after 2 hours or so of that i bowled at full speed with a run up for the last 20 balls. i only got one right, but it landed 3 feet outside leg stump, 3 yards from the stumps, and turned in sharply and hit leg stumps!! it also drifted and dipped a lot. the ball physically feels like its leaving the hand with more spin on it than ever before.

ive got a game this afternoon against a touring side, so if i get to bowl il see how far my action has come (or not). unfortunately my T20 game on tuesday got rained off.

 

[chippyben]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I went down the nets this evening and after chasing some kids off the net playing soccer with their studs on (why when there is a whole field there, dont get me started!) I got into working on the changes Ive made in my action. Ive been getting nicely side on and was working on my rotation tonight. I have a habit of not fully rotating and doing too much work with my arm. It felt awkward to begin with but concentrating on bowling up and tucking my leading arm into my ribs before throwing it away was getting some good results. Probably about 40% of my deliveries I was very happy with. I need to get my camera out again to check how it all looks.
The main area I am confused about now is my weight tranfer through the crease. I feel when Im bowling well Im leaning back to the left. Something Jim picked up which causes me to have a high arm action so Im a little confused at the moment. I tried leaning forward a little as I came to the crease but that didnt seem to work. Also Im unsure of how far my delivery stride should be. I generally try and step a bit shorter so I can "get around" my front leg but I think it may also be losing me momentum through the crease. Anyhow Im sure another video analysis should shed some light on the matter.
Does anyone else have the same problem!!

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

my action tends to bend over and to the left as well. we both have a front on action, its not side on, and theres no need to change it to be that way (provided the upper and lower body is aligned). i think the key to it working is the pivot.

as you step into your delivery stride your weight was quite a long way back (i had the same problem). getting the weight forwards isnt all that hard though, you just have to consciously try to get your weight more centralised into the delivery stride (see my video below, my weight starts back but it transfers through the delivery stride in sync with my legs).

the length of the stride probably isnt that important, but the transfer of weight over the front leg is. at the point of release you want your weight to be over your front leg, and you want to be up onto your toes on your left foot before you pivot. if you pivot onto a flat foot then the weight isnt forward enough, and thats when your body compensates by bending over and leaning to the left. you can cheat by just shortening the stride, but ultimately that isnt a fix, its the rest of the action that dictates the weight transfer.

going back to the point about trying to get side on - you dont need to get side on, but you do need to align your upper and lower body. so that means getting your chest less front on to begin with so that it matches your legs, and then having the whole action work so that the legs follow the chest. if you twist too much then it puts strain on the back.

the key to this all working though is the pivot. its the area that im working most on at the moment with my own action as i also dont get my weight forward enough, and i pivot on a flat foot and my back has to bend to compensate. the exact same as yours really.

this is a side-on shot of my bowling yesterday.... YouTube - side on action

note that my body is all pretty well aligned right upto the point of release, and then from there through the pivot my leg drags behind. if i was up onto my toes then this wouldnt happen, i would pivot more, and everything would be more in sync. id also be able to stay more upright and put less strain on my back and sides. id also be able to impart a lot more power on the ball, so more revs and more speed.

the delivery youre watching in that video, whilst you cant see the end result, pitched on leg stump and turned a good 3 feet and bounced to chest height. it was the 2nd best delivery of the day, hence i chose to use that video for what my action looks like at its current best. theres still a lot of improvements to be made though.

the other thing that doesnt help your action tipping to one side is that your arm comes through so high (im not sure which one causes the other though), whereas mine is a lot more roundarm (although its not obvious from side-on, you see it better in this video YouTube - untitled.avi ) and so my body has to compensate less.

get another video and then youll see what youre doing for sure. perception is a funny thing and you can be adamant that youre doing something different, then look at a video and its near enough the same lol. focus on staying tall and getting onto the the front toes for the pivot though. thats where my focus is at the moment and its working well.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Hurt my left shoulder when I put in a dive to get into the crease (as a by-runner). So my shoulder sort of pops whenever I try to rotate it fast. I tried bowling in such a condition and with my left hand falling off(I can't raise it much beyond shoulder level due to the injury) I had a pretty torrid time in time in the nets on tuesday. Line was quite alright, but there was absolutely no control on length. Quite frustrating to have this happen at the time when I was just about being recognized as wicket taking bowler. Two days of rest seems to have done some good to it and I might yet make a good impact in the matches this weekend. Will try it out in today's nets and see how it goes.

I'm just worried that bowling in this condition might get me habituated to bad form (falling left arm).

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i played this afternoon against a touring side. we had a pretty solid batting side out and we batted first, and stuck 224 on the board for about 5 wickets before declaring (it was a timed game).

i figured id get a good bowl having not batted at 8. but that was looking bleak when the opposition were about 90-9 with about 15 overs left, and i still hadnt bowled!!

i finally got the nod (the captain was letting some people bowl that dont normally get a go), bowled a pretty poor over for 7 runs, one of which was a 6 though, but i didnt really find any rhythm. second over was a little better, but frustrating. i was still very stiff from practicing hard yesterday which was probably a mistake in hindsight. only 2 runs off the over though, one was a wide.

so for my 3rd over i thought id have a go bowling an over seam up, just for sh*ts and giggles. the batsmen were batting out for a draw, seeing as they were impossibly far behind. i bowled a maiden over lol.

the captain then decided to switch me to the other end, and we still hadnt got the wicket, so then i went back to leg spin because seam is boring. their number 11 was a big guy, he couldnt run singles, and even if he could he had zero intention of doing so! every ball was a block. i was bowling at the younger and more capable lad, and i found my rhythm and kept it tight. one ball strayed leg side for a single off that over, but i had the batsman in trouble and a wicket looked imminent. i had a decent LBW shout turned down.

the last over of my spell (3 overs left in the match) was another maiden. i had slip, gully, silly point, silly mid-off, silly mid-on, it was awesome (we needed a wicket, and they were blocking!). i caused the batsman problems with every ball. i even tried the cheeky leg break action but spear the ball in as fast as possible and hit him in the foot for a very good LBW shout. i had 2 plum appeals turned down i reckon. another maiden, but not the elusive wicket.

i figured id get the last over, and i was positive id get the wicket. but the captain had it for himself, which was a little disappointing. the batsman said after the game that he was delighted i got taken off because i had him in all sorts of trouble lol.

5-2-10-0

in some ways my best figures of the season. but to be honest id rather have had 5-0-50-2

my bowling is getting better though either way.

 

[Sean]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

What I thought would never happen has happened. I've lost my turn.

Went back to training last night and the ball was hardly doing anything. Hopefully after a couple more sessions it'll start coming back.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

What I thought would never happen has happened. I've lost my turn.

Went back to training last night and the ball was hardly doing anything. Hopefully after a couple more sessions it'll start coming back.

Sean, what surface were you bowling on? might have been a damp matting ? Some times nothing will turn on them even a big legbreak with some backspin will go on with the arm and even look like a wrongun to the untrained eye.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

whos the Qld leg spinner beginning with Z? i know theyve got Cameron Boyce, .

It is Boyce i was thinking of, i thought there was a z i must have thought they were saying boize or something.

Good to hear rashid is going good, i haven't been following the scores but he must stand a good chance to get a tour down here. Swanns the main man so you wouldn't really need another offspinner.

 

[chippyben]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I had a quick bowl this evening and I was concentrating on getting good rotation through the crease and getting my weight forward and up on my toes at release. I started with a drill Id seen somewhere on the net where I start standing on my right foot and just deliver the ball from there. It takes a lot of effort but it got me getting up on my toes and rotating properly.
I have found that with my changes to my action over the last week or so that Ive increased my pace quite a bit without any real increse in effort which is good.
Im taking the camera out tomorrow morning so Ill post them up and it will be interesting to see if it looks anything like the way I perceive it.

 

[chippyben]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Ive put up a two more videos up on youtube from today. I have been getting side on now and was trying to tuck in my leading arm. I was also trying to drive through with my right leg as suggested by doctortran. These are about the best videoes I took this morning. In the others I keep getting too front on or dont rotate properly or step too far across myself or a number of other things. Its hard trying to get 3-4 different ideas all working together.
I noticed my arm is still very vertical which is surprising as it felt quite round arm, about 10 to15 degrees. I thought by reducing the amount I stepped across myself I could get more round arm but it appears to have made little difference. Anyway advice is very welcome so please analyse away.
Just type in 1chippyben at youtube to find them

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

youre not side on, youre still very much front on, but you dont need to be side on its just not your natural action. my action is the same, and no amount of trying will ever correct it, just embrace the front on action and ignore anyone that tells you otherwise. it wont work.

compared to the videos from the other day though youve got your upper body much more aligned with your lower body, and your leading arm is a lot higher and more influential in the action, it doesnt drop so early.

however your chest still opens up a lot at the point of release (too much, too early), and your lower body is very late to rotate compared to your upper body. this is probably the result of not getting onto your toes early enough. you still lean away a lot as well, but this is also probably due to not being on your toes as well (lack of rotation).

a good piece of advice i was given is to think about getting your weight forward at the hips, rather than the upper body. this stops you from bending the upper body forwards, and forces your whole body to be further through the action earlier, encouraging you to get onto your toes, and then the rotation takes care of the rest. at the moment your upper body is doing all the work, and i dare say leaving you more open to injuries. its a similar problem with my own action. you probably rotate too much as well, you end up facing fully sideways, whereas the rotation should be strong, but it should still end up driving your forwards. everything in the action should aim towards the target.

it might be worth trying these things out without the run up. you have a fast and powerful approach, which probably comes from fast bowling, and perhaps the nature of that causes you to adopt a faster bowling action as a result. so the weight transferred further back and then catapulted forwards, the long front stride, leaning away, high delivery arm, etc. if you bowl off of 1 step then everything is much slower and you can memorise the motions more easily. then when you build back up to a full run up its easier to get it consistent.

try to change one thing at a time. personally the first thing id do would be to work on getting your arm a bit lower, as i think that will instantly help to keep your upper body straighter. then the next thing would be getting onto your toes.

 

[doctortran]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Ive put up a two more videos up on youtube from today. I have been getting side on now and was trying to tuck in my leading arm. I was also trying to drive through with my right leg as suggested by doctortran. These are about the best videoes I took this morning. In the others I keep getting too front on or dont rotate properly or step too far across myself or a number of other things. Its hard trying to get 3-4 different ideas all working together.
I noticed my arm is still very vertical which is surprising as it felt quite round arm, about 10 to15 degrees. I thought by reducing the amount I stepped across myself I could get more round arm but it appears to have made little difference. Anyway advice is very welcome so please analyse away.
Just type in 1chippyben at youtube to find them

Your video definitely shows side-on bowling. The illusion of front on bowling comes from early rotation of shoulders and waist. Certainly if you rotate your waist and follow with your shoulders later then you'll look more side-on and perhaps feel more side-on (note for fast bowlers... not good for your back! Ok for spin bowlers).

Why are you bowling faster?

You'll notice your left foot is pointing more to the right just before landing.
Your weight is toward the right, preparing to be unloaded by your bowling arm. Greater potential energy! Good stuff. This may account for being more side-on than in your other deliveries. Maintain this if you want to keep bowling side-on as it will both help you stay side-on while generating pace. Of course the choice of bowling side-on/front-on is up to your discretion.

One bit of advice I have is about rhythm -- again. But it is a new idea to get you feeling more comfortable with your bowling.

Warney has brought his bowling arm up with his back leg (right arm up with right leg). Bringing up your leg with your arm (simultaneously) may help you improve your rhythm. You'll have a reference point of which to continue the major parts of your action you've been focusing on. Think of fast bowlers out of form -- they don't get their run up right, so how are they going to get their bowling stride right?

Your back leg is sort of coming up a bit later than your arm. Bringing your back leg up with your arm should help with control.

Other than that, keep working on your bowling. You can definitely get more from your legs, though it appears you have taken steps to lengthen your stride a bit. 0:12-0:14 of your side-on video from the 15th... look at your back leg (right leg). It's swinging and stretching with much greater momentum -- i.e. greater leg drive = good. Really think about stretching the calf of the back leg more as it drives through for that extra power -- it is sort of a stretch or tensing of those muscles.

 

[doctortran]

The benefits of a fully stretched back leg.

Pushing through with your back leg has a HUGE effect on your speed. It is an indicator that you are pushing through the crease with momentum. It indicates leg drive. It indicates you are using the maximum amount of power.

Shaun Tait bowls Boucher.

Good delivery yes. Slower - yes too! This delivery is at 139.6kph or 86.7mph. Look at that back leg. Bent as all hell. He's not stretching it and so he's not using the entire length of his leg to push through the crease.

Shaun Tait beats Farhat with pace.

Not so spectacular a delivery -- except for its speed. This delivery is at 160.7 kph or 99.85 mph. Just look at that back leg. Fully stretched and back further. His stride is hence longer, his leg is exerting more force (as Ian Pont may call it... bowling with longer levers).

That back leg helps explain a change of 21 kph or 14 mph. Indirectly as an indicator for momentum and actively by helping to push off the ground harder , back leg power can improve your speed as a leg spinner or as a fast bowler significantly.

 

[Spiderlounge]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Hi all, I haven't been on here for what seems like an age. Just thought you might like an update on how I'm getting on.

A period of having something on seemingly every weekend meant that unfortunately I missed a couple of months in June and July, but I was back playing this weekend, playing both Saturday for the 4ths and Sunday for the Sunday XI. I've been bowling in the nets as much as I can, so much so that the new astro nets the club has got have given me a very sore left knee.

On Saturday we played on a very soggy wicket where a par score was about 70 and I blocked competently for a 7-ball duck. I didn't get a bowl which frustrated me intensely. My stock ball is a top-spun leg break which dips and turns beautifully, and with the stickiness of the pitch I felt sure I could have made the ball turn round corners and got a wicket or two. Then on Sunday I wasn't bowling but my knee wasn't up to it in any case, and after a little bit of coaching in the nets to improve my footwork I made a very satisfying 8 with the bat.

In matches I've still only bowled 1.4 overs all season and not taken a wicket, but my bowling is getting steadily better in the nets as my concentration and accuracy improves. My line's a bit wayward but my length is pretty good. Hopefully I'll be able to get the camera out at some point soon so you can see where I'm up to.

 

[chrisbell]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Hi again gents. I haven't yet read the threads since I last posted, but I just thought I'd pay an overdue visit.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

What you up to Chris - how you getting on this season?

 

[chrisbell]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

What you up to Chris - how you getting on this season?

Evening Dave - still sitting in my wheelchair, tossing the ball from hand to hand and occasionally underarm to feel the big flick going on. I have found the problem for me is that, because of the nature of my disability, I have small hands and slack ligaments, so I tend to twist fingers and wrist if I grip the ball too hard when tossing the ball around. This doesn't hurt me, it just means that side-spinners become toppies because the wrist rotates so that I'm looking at the back of my hand - resulting in a topspinner. I've found that I have to grip over the top of the ball more to eliminate this and think about the wrist flick rather than trying to squeeze the ball and use the fingers too much, as this tends to have the above outcome!

Unfortunately, I think that my grip needs to be different for the big wrong 'un and theround the loop backspinner than for the other stuff - hard to explain without downloading some photos of different grips, and I don't want to set-up a blog just to be able to post photos here! I'll think about how to explain it.

 

[chrisbell]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

BTW Dave, I have a Junior version of the Gray-Nicholls Wonderball. I bought it from a local indie sports retailer here in Norwich that is under the Intersport banner.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Sorry Chris I can't keep track of who is who on here what with all the pseudonyms on here and on youtube, you don't play in a team as I recall. With regards the balls I've found a ball that is exactly the same at my local branch of Decathlon and it's a ball endorsed by broad - might be the same as yours?