Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Macca, is that me? Does your son read this stuff as well?

Yeah there's a place for Flippers, but anyone who manages to get the click out of the fingers sussed with some decent rotation, I'd say now that you've really got to go the full mile and get the wrist working to produce the other 2 variations of note. You've got to work with the Top-Spinning Flipper and the one that comes out of the front of the hand that should break like an off-spinner. The Off-spinning one is magic for me, but I'm not 100% convinced like a lot of my deliveries that it comes out of the hand in the way that I want it to or perceive that it does and somehow it's more akin to a Leg Break. But it drifts it to the batsman and then often breaks the opposite way as a Leg Break! Don't know how - don't know why and don't care because when it's bowled amongst my ususal stuff it causes problems.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

My son's "flipper" is a backspinner that he gets using his thumbnail and second finger, he dont get the big revs from the finger click yet but it comes out with backspin and it is completely different from his normal topspun stuff.

I told him before he bowled last night just stick to legbreaks and topspinners. I thought it would be way into the season before he even tried his flipper.

So I will just let him do what he wants to a large extent, he is a better bowler than I ever was anyway. Same with the wrongun, he chucks one in every 3 overs or so now. Just doing the way benaud does on that clip goldenarm posted. More or less just concentrate on finishing with back of hand facing the ground.

I cant believe the season will continue the way preseason has. Changing clubs worked out far better than we could have hoped for.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Confidence is important, a good start could see him right through the season. My last season saw me smashed at the start and seems I never recovered whereas the season before I started with 3 four wicket hauls and it was good all year. Let's hope your son prospers right through.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I suppose my kids natural delivery is a legbreak with lots of topspin. Close to the topspinner. He turns a few of 'em a long way as well. Slow bowler but faster when you actually face him than he looks.

We work on accuracy 30 overs a week in 6 over spells. 11 months a year on pitches out in the middle away from nets mostly. Been doing that for over 5 years now.

But a lot of work in spinning the ball hard we do in the backyard.

Last friday evening was the best i have seen him go. His new team has some very good young batsman including 3 rep players. It was a dull overcast evening with a strong breeze from fine leg. He had legbreaks drifting big and spinning lots. Big topspinners looping up out of his hand, dipping and bouncing incredibly.

He had one kid refuse to play shots and just let the ball bounce. He bowled him with a flipper that nearly bounced twice. He did something similar to another kid with his wrongun.

Coach cant believe the kids accuracy. No long hops or full tosses in an hours bowling. 9 out of 10 are on the spot he reckons. He wouldn't know the practise he puts in though.

First game in a few days days time. This season they are really playing for something. If his team can be major or minor premiers they go into first division next year. That means longer games, better wickets, more umpires etc. Legspinners get a real go in that comp. They stand a real chance if you draw a line through form and club history.

Feel a bit sorry for his old club team , they got de graded to division 5, the lowest. He was so lucky to change clubs and then get picked for the firsts at his new outfit. He got picked ahead of some good pace bowlers, but fortunately for legspinners, pace bowlers are a dime a dozen.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I'm looking forward to a 'Jim-esque' match report after that first game! Practice is the key, even though the seasons finished here, we move on to concrete and ashphalt while we can, we might get away with another 6-8 weeks of bowling outside before it gets too cold. I normally have a regime where on Saturday and Sunday morning before lunch we head off to an old tennis court near us. One of us bowls, one bats and the other is the wicket keeper. We have 4 overs each of batting and 4 overs each of bowling and rotate the keeping as well. I stick a couple of cones where mid on and mid off are and encourage the boys to drive past or over the bowler and they score more runs if they hit the fence behind through this zone. This morning was the first time we'd done it this year and it was the first serious practice we'd had for a month or so and my older son was surprised at how out of form he'd got initially but he soon picked it up again and he enjoyed the work out. Joe the little-un couldn't get the ball to turn so he got a bit fed up and wasn't as enthusiastic, but he a bit of a bowl later with me back and forth to the stumps outside the house, so he's still on board.

They'll benefit from the practice as we go inside in Jan for pre-season nets, all the other kids would have stopped at the start of Sept and we would have worked through the winter. I even go as far as to book out indoor sports halls in Nov Dec time so we keep up the bowling.

 

[chippyben]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

We had the second day of our two day game on saturday. We won and almost got an outright again falling 2 wickets short.More importantly though I got 2 overs of leg breaks after my opening pace spell. Unfortunately I came crashing back to earth after last weeks effort going for two bounderies in both overs. 2-0-16-0
It had drizzled all day and surprisingly we had kept out in it. I was super confident as Id had a quick spell in the nets that morning and bowled really well. The captain asked if I could grip the ball as it was sodden and I said yes. Looking back I think I have not helped my cause. After the first ball which landed ok I realised I couldnt give it a flick at it was so slippery. My confidence evaporated and I found I was just putting it there. Anyhow its all good experience I guess and I did learn a very good trick from our off spinner. He was having no trouble at all controlling the ball and wasnt even drying it between deliveries. I asked him afterwards how he did it. He said he only thought of it that day. He rubbed his hand in the dirt and left the dirt and grit on his hands and it allowed him to really grip it.

 

[TonyM]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

...
A few of the kids got a couple of wickets but my young bloke got over a dozen. 3 clean bowled, 4 stumpings, I hit wicket and umpteen catches, i lost count...

Great news, if there is only one lad at the club who can read him let it be the keeper! Hope it all continues as positively as it has started this summer

 

[luckydip]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I suppose my kids natural delivery is a legbreak with lots of topspin. Close to the topspinner. He turns a few of 'em a long way as well. Slow bowler but faster when you actually face him than he looks.

We work on accuracy 30 overs a week in 6 over spells. 11 months a year on pitches out in the middle away from nets mostly. Been doing that for over 5 years now.

But a lot of work in spinning the ball hard we do in the backyard.

Last friday evening was the best i have seen him go. His new team has some very good young batsman including 3 rep players. It was a dull overcast evening with a strong breeze from fine leg. He had legbreaks drifting big and spinning lots. Big topspinners looping up out of his hand, dipping and bouncing incredibly.

He had one kid refuse to play shots and just let the ball bounce. He bowled him with a flipper that nearly bounced twice. He did something similar to another kid with his wrongun.

Coach cant believe the kids accuracy. No long hops or full tosses in an hours bowling. 9 out of 10 are on the spot he reckons. He wouldn't know the practise he puts in though.

First game in a few days days time. This season they are really playing for something. If his team can be major or minor premiers they go into first division next year. That means longer games, better wickets, more umpires etc. Legspinners get a real go in that comp. They stand a real chance if you draw a line through form and club history.

Feel a bit sorry for his old club team , they got de graded to division 5, the lowest. He was so lucky to change clubs and then get picked for the firsts at his new outfit. He got picked ahead of some good pace bowlers, but fortunately for legspinners, pace bowlers are a dime a dozen.

Macca, sounds like a great bowler in the making!! You say he has been practicing for 5 years, how old was he when he started?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

You say he has been practicing for 5 years, how old was he when he started?

He started at 7. He has been bowling legbreaks from day one. This is his 6th season of juniors. He went to a primary school where they played a lot of cricket and he always got picked to play for the school team.

It is only the last 18 months we have been serious. We found this thread around that time and it has been a great help.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

We had the second day of our two day game on saturday. We won and almost got an outright again falling 2 wickets short.More importantly though I got 2 overs of leg breaks after my opening pace spell. Unfortunately I came crashing back to earth after last weeks effort going for two bounderies in both overs. 2-0-16-0
It had drizzled all day and surprisingly we had kept out in it. I was super confident as Id had a quick spell in the nets that morning and bowled really well. The captain asked if I could grip the ball as it was sodden and I said yes. Looking back I think I have not helped my cause. After the first ball which landed ok I realised I couldnt give it a flick at it was so slippery. My confidence evaporated and I found I was just putting it there. Anyhow its all good experience I guess and I did learn a very good trick from our off spinner. He was having no trouble at all controlling the ball and wasnt even drying it between deliveries. I asked him afterwards how he did it. He said he only thought of it that day. He rubbed his hand in the dirt and left the dirt and grit on his hands and it allowed him to really grip it.

Funny that, we went and had a session during a light shower today just to handle bowling the wet ball. Like Grimmett.


I came home with pink palms from drying the wet ball with my hands and a wet arse.

 

[chippyben]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Funny that, we went and had a session during a light shower today just to handle bowling the wet ball. Like Grimmett.


I came home with pink palms from drying the wet ball with my hands and a wet arse.

I was drying the ball on my shirt before bowling. I left it to soak overnight with napisan. Then I washed it the next day and now I have pink shirt!!!!

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I was drying the ball on my shirt before bowling. I left it to soak overnight with napisan. Then I washed it the next day and now I have pink shirt!!!!

You'll be able to wear that shirt to the the test in Sydney if they have another pink day for the McGrath Foundation.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Where's everyone gone? I'm not liking the change of the forum, but then I don't like change a great deal in any way (Old bloke syndrome), no doubt we'll get used it?

 

[mas cambios]

It'll become second nature soon enough. The new software is only what vB should have been when they released version 4. Pretty much everything is the same, just tidied up and streamlined.

 

[macca]

Probably lucky for my sons team that it rained all saturday morning. Three of our topguns were away on holidays so a draw is an ok result.
He still looks to me to be bowling a bit too slow and flighty but he is proving very hard for his team mates to play so drawing a line through that he should go OK in the comp.

 

[chippyben]

Wow its all fancy on here now!!. We had the first day of our two day game yesterday and it turned out an amazing 1st innings win for us. We were all out for a paltry 93 and rolled them for 74. I had what I would consider one of my best bowling performances ever 11-5-10-2 Although I only got 2 wickets they didnt get a run off me for 6 overs and I bowled 3 no balls. I had 2 dropped by the keeper too. My opening partner got 12-2-59-5 but I feel my tight bowling got him a few of his wickets as they went after him instead. Anyway thats not legspin which this forum so enough of that.
I recently purchased a book entitled "The Complete Leg Break Bowler" by C.S (Father) Marriott. He played with Tich Freeman at Kent and played only 1 test for England getting 12 wickets for the match. Ill have to write a full review as Im only half way through but there have been some strange and conflicting advice compared to other books Ive read. For instance he advocates learning to be accurate before learning to really rip it. Also he advises to bowl with the wind as it helps give the leg break extra pace. Bowling against the wind " not only took off some of the spin but exaggerated the leg-break's slight natural tendancy to in-swing' (drift). ???????
In his defence though he does say he was a fast paced leg spin bowler that used little loop. This is backed up by his lack of any kind of description on bowling any type of backspinning ball or hard spun leg break.He talks about the googly syndrome although he doesn't name it as that (Dave) There are 53 pages of strategy and tactics for me still to read though and 24 diagrams of different field settings so Im hoping to pick up some pearls of wisdom there whilst watching the test in india this afternoon.

 

[macca]

My impression of Marriot and Freeman is that they were England or rather Kents' version of Grimmett and O Rielly in a lot of ways. Two legspinners who complimented each other. Marriot preferred to bowl with the wind, like Tiger O Rielly.

Freeman was more like Grimmett and liked to bowl against the wind. Although Grimmett did use the tailwind sometimes on slower English wickets and also when he bowled his mystery ball.

In general, accuracy before spin, like Marriot suggests, is the difference between English Legspin and Australian Legspin.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

My impression of Marriot and Freeman is that they were England or rather Kents' version of Grimmett and O Rielly in a lot of ways. Two legspinners who complimented each other. Marriot preferred to bowl with the wind, like Tiger O Rielly.

Freeman was more like Grimmett and liked to bowl against the wind. Although Grimmett did use the tailwind sometimes on slower English wickets and also when he bowled his mystery ball.

In general, accuracy before spin, like Marriot suggests, is the difference between English Legspin and Australian Legspin.

Hey I'm liking that! I feel all English now, I'm going to have to go and get myself a George Cross T-Shirt and add to my videos 'This is the English way'!

 

[Jim2109]

the problem is that it isn't English leg spinners dominating the record books. containment is for the boring off spinners. any leggie that preaches methods to REDUCE spin and drift should be discounted as a source of useful information IMHO. the entire benefit of leg spin (and the reason it is so much more prolific for wicket taking compared to off spin) is the massive amounts of spin, drift, dip/carry and turn that can be generated, as well as the wide range of variations. take away spin and drift and you might as well be a slow medium pacer.

 

[chippyben]

Marriott seems to be a different bowler to what I am striving for but its still worth a read although the title 'The complete leg spin bowler" might be a bit of a misnomer. He bowled seam up yorkers at full pace to batsman who played back to him. He cocked his wrist til the last second to disguise it and then let fly. He also bowled off spin deliveries instead of wrong uns because bowling wronguns had caused him an injury. He believed it was just as good as he could disguise it well enough to trick most batsmen.?? He was a very sucessful cricketer in his day but following his style would seem to be sacrificing the deception of flight and drift.
I couldnt sleep the other night so I sat up watching Richie Benaud and Terry Jenners videos on youtube and I had a bit of a Eureka moment. I realised that I had been letting my wrist fall back into a position that was restricting my ability to get it to all work together with the fingers. I then went to a mirror and just worked on trying to understand what my wrist was doing and what would work best. Something I wish I had taken time to do when I first started. Its hard to see exactly what the wrist is doing even in slow motion on video. Anyhow I was so excited at the prospect of improvement I got up at sunrise before work and tried it out for an hour. Well it worked a treat and bowling off one step I even got a few wrong uns to work. Now I can see how it would be more natural feeling if you bowled it too much. Another thing I noticed which got me turning the wrong un a little is bowling it round arm as on the few previous occasions Ive mucked around with it Ive tried to get a high action and it hasnt worked for me. How exciting is the wrongun!!! I have had to be very disciplined not to bowl too many.
With the change of wrist position I have finally developed an action for the leg break that I think I can reproduce consistently and that I am very happy with. Its only taken a year!!!
At training tonight the results really shone through as I bowled only leg breaks, nothing else and was very consistently on the spot, and bad balls only slightly bad not long hops or big full tosses. The highlight being a leg break pitching on leg and taking the top of off stump.
All the hard work is starting to pay off and it is very satisfying and exciting in a way Ive never experienced with pace bowling.