Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Adil Rashid got the nod for England today in their ODI against Australia. England batted first and Rashid wasnt great, only 4 runs, but Brett Lee took 4 awesome wickets with mid-90mph yorkers, including Rashid!

hes come on to bowl at 2nd change, England struggling already, and in 2 overs hes gone for 10 and 9, 19 total. he bowled one delivery so wide down the leg side that it barely even bounced on the wicket, and somehow Ponting still hit it for a 4 at fine leg lol. theres been a couple called wide, and a couple that would have been had there not been bat on them.

hes just bowling his 3rd over now, with so few runs on the board for England im not sure how hes supposed to bowl with any kind of aggression though. the batsmen can just tickle him around and capitalise on anything loose. this match wont do anything towards staking his claim in the test side though.

Rashid improved a bit as the match went on. he finished up with 10-0-56-1. got the wicket but was the most expensive bowler in the side. the wicket was a big top edge that looped up and got caught by the keeper. he had a couple of others that were almost wickets, a "dropped" catch (it was a full stretch dive that brushed the fielders fingertips) and a few edges that dropped to no-one.

they showed quite a few slow motions of Rashids bowling today which was good to see. he generates big revolutions on the ball but his wrist position is horrible. he doesnt impart the spin sideways, its like a gyroscopic effect. so the seam is always completely scrambled, sometimes it turns sometimes it doesnt. if he landed it on the seam he would be formiddable!!

maybe its a deliberate thing in one day cricket, the revs still produce lots of movement in flight, but off the pitch the variations seem to be more in bounce than turn. i guess that limits wide balls and easy hits. id like to see him bowl in a test match to see if he bowls "properly" then. his talent looks completely wasted when the seam is presented how it is. Shane Warne could turn the ball as big as anyone, and you rarely saw him altering his game massively for one day cricket, im not sure i really agree with the thinking behind it. i think if youre a leg spinner you should be looking to spin the ball, and as a consequence turn it as big as possible. so far hes got 1 wicket in 2 matches, if he was turning the ball i reckon he'd have a fair few more, because his basic technique and talent all look to be there.

 

[GoldenArm]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Rashid improved a bit as the match went on. he finished up with 10-0-56-1. got the wicket but was the most expensive bowler in the side. the wicket was a big top edge that looped up and got caught by the keeper. he had a couple of others that were almost wickets, a "dropped" catch (it was a full stretch dive that brushed the fielders fingertips) and a few edges that dropped to no-one.

they showed quite a few slow motions of Rashids bowling today which was good to see. he generates big revolutions on the ball but his wrist position is horrible. he doesnt impart the spin sideways, its like a gyroscopic effect. so the seam is always completely scrambled, sometimes it turns sometimes it doesnt. if he landed it on the seam he would be formiddable!!

maybe its a deliberate thing in one day cricket, the revs still produce lots of movement in flight, but off the pitch the variations seem to be more in bounce than turn. i guess that limits wide balls and easy hits. id like to see him bowl in a test match to see if he bowls "properly" then. his talent looks completely wasted when the seam is presented how it is. Shane Warne could turn the ball as big as anyone, and you rarely saw him altering his game massively for one day cricket, im not sure i really agree with the thinking behind it. i think if youre a leg spinner you should be looking to spin the ball, and as a consequence turn it as big as possible. so far hes got 1 wicket in 2 matches, if he was turning the ball i reckon he'd have a fair few more, because his basic technique and talent all look to be there.

couldn't agree with you more mate. i was actually just saying to someone today exactly the same thing. his seam position is ludicrously poor! i'd love to be a big fan of Rashid, an English leg spinner! its the dream really isn't it? but i just can't seem to find anything to like about the guy as a bowler. his action is distinctly graceless. horribly jerky, upright and with the wrist wasting its energy going in the wrong direction. It just doesn't look powerful or dynamic and you really don't feel he is getting much on the ball. i find watching him to be an extremely frustrating affair! you just want to go and give him a push in the back to get that run up going. The odd one did turn a fair way but it was slow and just doesn't look very dangerous. the Aussies seem fairly untroubled by him anyway. he needs some serious coaching, get Warney on the case i say!

 

[big spin]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

couldn't agree with you more mate. i was actually just saying to someone today exactly the same thing. his seam position is ludicrously poor! i'd love to be a big fan of Rashid, an English leg spinner! its the dream really isn't it? but i just can't seem to find anything to like about the guy as a bowler. his action is distinctly graceless. horribly jerky, upright and with the wrist wasting its energy going in the wrong direction. It just doesn't look powerful or dynamic and you really don't feel he is getting much on the ball. i find watching him to be an extremely frustrating affair! you just want to go and give him a push in the back to get that run up going. The odd one did turn a fair way but it was slow and just doesn't look very dangerous. the Aussies seem fairly untroubled by him anyway. he needs some serious coaching, get Warney on the case i say!

Got to say I think you're being a bit harsh on Rashid!

First this seam position thing- Murali bowls every single delivery with a scrambled seam, and his deliveries turn very consistently and he can turn the ball miles! So as long as there's side spin on the ball the ball should turn.

Secondly, Warne and Benaud have said they really like Rashid, and there isn't higher praise than that for a young leg spinner! He can turn the ball a fair way on the right track (which today's Lords pitch wasn't!) and he has good control generally. He bowled very well in the first ODI and I think he should be given a really good run in the England team so he can learn and develop.

Thirdly, we have to remember that he (and all other county leggies) play on incredibly flat and hard wickets. I (and all of you!) can turn the ball a fair way on club piches and in our nets, but to go on these world class strips the ball wouldn't turn an inch. Even Philpott said in his book that this only happens when you get to county/state level.

And finally- I don't think we should compare leg spinners to Warne! I feel sorry for Australian spinners having to be compared to him, and we're doing it to our young leggies as well! Warne was a genuine great of the game. I don't think we'll ever see a bowler like Warne again, just like we haven't seen another batsmen like Bradman. Which is sad, but probably the truth.

So I reckon we should give Rashid a break, I love seeing a leg spinner playing for England, and 'd love to see him be our test match spinner as well. He can turn the ball, is pretty accurate, has got some variations (and I'm sure he'll develop a few more). So I hope he does well and has a long career for England.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Got to say I think you're being a bit harsh on Rashid!

First this seam position thing- Murali bowls every single delivery with a scrambled seam, and his deliveries turn very consistently and he can turn the ball miles! So as long as there's side spin on the ball the ball should turn.

Secondly, Warne and Benaud have said they really like Rashid, and there isn't higher praise than that for a young leg spinner! He can turn the ball a fair way on the right track (which today's Lords pitch wasn't!) and he has good control generally. He bowled very well in the first ODI and I think he should be given a really good run in the England team so he can learn and develop.

Thirdly, we have to remember that he (and all other county leggies) play on incredibly flat and hard wickets. I (and all of you!) can turn the ball a fair way on club piches and in our nets, but to go on these world class strips the ball wouldn't turn an inch. Even Philpott said in his book that this only happens when you get to county/state level.

And finally- I don't think we should compare leg spinners to Warne! I feel sorry for Australian spinners having to be compared to him, and we're doing it to our young leggies as well! Warne was a genuine great of the game. I don't think we'll ever see a bowler like Warne again, just like we haven't seen another batsmen like Bradman. Which is sad, but probably the truth.

So I reckon we should give Rashid a break, I love seeing a leg spinner playing for England, and 'd love to see him be our test match spinner as well. He can turn the ball, is pretty accurate, has got some variations (and I'm sure he'll develop a few more). So I hope he does well and has a long career for England.

you make some good points, but the seam position thing isnt really excusable IMO. its not that he lacks outright technique as such, he is generating good revolutions on the ball, and his general control over line and length is excellent for his age. he just cocks his wrist at a weird and unneccesary angle and this scrambles the seam. you watch the spinners in cricket who have generated the most turn and theyve always had control of the seam. Murali is an odd case, he isnt a leg spinner so im not sure we should be comparing apples with oranges. his action is completely different to anyone elses. if Rashid bowled with an upright seam the ball would turn a lot, hes generating turn with a scrambled seam so it can only get better.

its unfair to write a player off because they dont live upto a legend, like Shane Warne. but comparing players is absolutely necessary. not in the medias way, writing players off because they fall short. but in a coaching sense if you dont aspire to be the greatest, then why are you even bothering? everyone that wants a career in something should aspire to be the best in their field. if you settle for not being the best then you wont improve year after year. Shane Warne has said that he defines a good spin bowler by their continual improvement. if youre not getting better at your art every single year until you retire then youll never be more than average. so i think we SHOULD be comparing Rashid to Warne, because compared to Warne there is a LOT more he can learn, and a lot of areas where he is capable of improving. and why cant he be as good as Warne? Warne didnt break into international cricket at as young an age, Rashid has 2 years on him yet!

finally, no doubt that county and international wickets are harder and flatter than most club level stuff. but they certainly arent harder and flatter than concrete. one of Muralitharans old coaches (i cant remember who) remarked early in his career that he generated so much spin that he could turn a ball on concrete, and thus id assume that as the hardest surface on which to generate spin. i do 90% of my practice in a beat-up club nets with a solid and glass smooth concrete surface covered in 30 year old felt (with no underlay) that is completely smooth (it shines in the sun lol) where its been walked along so many times. and id regard that as probably as hard to bowl on as a cricket pitch could ever get. its worse than artificial wickets. but even with my medicore amount of talent i can turn the ball by utilising good seam discipline and lots of revs on the ball. scramble the seam and it goes straight every time.

id also say one other thing, and thats that i find it easier to bowl on harder pitches than i do on softer ones. the softer the pitch and the more dusty and crumbly it is, the less bounce. less bounce completely negates any turn because if its staying low its not troubling the batsman that much. edges drop straight to the floor, they struggle to scoop anything up into the air, etc. id much rather bowl on a Lords pitch than my villages soft club pitch (the club i actually play for produces rock hard wickets, so that suits me fine ). also club pitches tend to be much greener with more retained moisture. baked dry pitches, such as those in Asia, are generally regarded as the best for spin. when youve got a full time groundsman on site all day to move the covers on and off id imagine you can produce a drier pitch. clubs have a groundsman thats there every evening at best, so when it rains, the pitch gets wet. sometimes the day before a match!

but as i said to begin with, i think youve made some good points still, and im merely offering some discussion. Rashid is still only young, hes got a lot of learning to do, and we should give him a good chance (id love nothing more than for him to start every match for the next year!). but i think he could be a much better bowler, almost overnight, just by adjusting his wrist angle and landing the ball on the seam more often. its as if hes bowling a slider every ball with occasional leg breaks. maybe thats his style, as Anil Kumble's was to bowl the top spinner as his stock ball. but i think Rashid would be far more potent with a strong leg break as his stock ball.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i had a seriously frustrating match today. we were playing against a london side who had a lot of Asian players, i think they were mostly Sri Lankan, and a mixture of age groups. we won the toss and the captain chose to bat, personally i think we would have been better off chasing because we would have known that to go after, and their batsmen would maybe have started less aggressively.

anyway, we batted, i was down at number 9. we went along well, i came into bat with 3 overs left of a 35 over game and obviously looked to slog. i faced 6 deliveries, 5 dot balls off a pretty average spinner who wasnt turning the ball just because i kept swinging and missing. then 6th ball i inside edged onto my stumps. out for a duck and already infuriated with myself and i hadnt even bowled yet lol.

anyway, we ended up with 179 off the 35 overs, they came in to bat. their openers were excellent, one of them hit some absolutely massive 6's, clearing the ground altogether and into the fields that surround the cricket club. i came onto bowl 6th, to a pair of left handers!!! one of them wasnt that good, i had him under control. i bowled 5 very good deliveries in my first over and one loose one that didnt go for many runs (2 maybe). then the bowler at the other end got one of the batsman out next over and a righty came in (thank god!). but he was off strike, the leftie on strike was awesome. i bowled an entire over of very good balls, but he still hit me for 2, 4 and then a single. i got 3 balls at the righty and had him under complete control. i could have had an LBW, but it got turned down. he edged the other 2.

next over i got to bowl at the righty but he got 3 off the first ball from some sloppy fielding. lefty smashed a 4 then took a single, then the righty did. then i got hit for 2 more 4's by the left hander.

i wouldnt have minded, except that every delivery was on a perfect length, maybe 6" too far outside his off stump which gave him some room, but thats the way i bowl. it was turning well. had i got another over id have bowled a much tighter line with some sliders thrown in. but i dont do defensive bowling, i wanted a wicket. i bowled one wide that the batsman hit (so it didnt get given), its just incredibly annoying when you dont do anything wrong and still dont get the figures to represent it. i know myself that i bowled really well, which should be what counts, but as far as the captain could see i got smashed for loads of runs and didnt take a wicket again. so it doesnt help my cause for the next match. in the nets ive been bowling awesome as well, but nobody that matters ever sees it. prior to the match i had our number 3 batsman edging to slip and getting stumped almost every ball in the nets.

so i bowled the best ive ever bowled in a match, near enough perfect by my standards. and i still went for 3-0-33-0. sometimes youve just got to say well done to the batsman and take yourself off. i told the captain i couldnt bowl to the leftie, but he was already going to take me off anyway. less than 2 overs later they won the match, there was a maiden at the other end to the righty, then the left hander hit 4, 2, 4, 4 off the bowler that replaced me. he was very good, their whole team was with the bat. we got beaten by 6 wickets with 7 overs left.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

This young one looks very grimmetesque. He states he is a fastish bowler. I think he has talent. I love round armers! YouTube - My Amazing Spin Bowl

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Did you see that he gets some drift as well! The cat licking it's genitals was funny as well!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I had a similar day again playing against a bunch of blokes of Asian descent from East London in our case. Similar story we were put into bat and after an initial slow start of of around 3 runs an over our No.3, No.4 got the runs chugging along and we finished on 199 off the 35 overs with one of the younger lad who's about 14 hitting his first ever 50 and then doing what no England player can currently do - he went on to score his first 100 getting 2 off the last ball of the match to bring him up to 100.

So then we had to defend the 199. 2 young kids were up first and they were dismissed pretty quickly and then a couple of seasoned batsmen came in and began to build a very good partnership with them both getting 50 and more. I got to bowl 4 overs (A different captain to the one I normally have) and went for 4-0-30-0 against 2 batsmen that were all over us and charging down the total we set. In the second over bowling to the better of the two I dropped a bowled and caught chance that smashed my thumb. I then had a ball that would have been caught at slips, but there wasn't a slips fielder and the the next ball off a Top Spinner came off the top of the bat and the wicket keeper reacted too slow and it went just over his head at a very catchable height and he only managed to parry it. This batsman when I finished up commended me on my bowling, although at 30 for nothing I wasn't that pleased. Other than that I had a good day in the field stopping some good balls destined for 4's and after chatting to Liz Wizard on the thread 'Pensioners pages' about stiff muscles and inability to run well - I'd followed her advice and was running like a Gazelle in the field. We were thrashed in the end something like 200 for 4 off 28 overs but it was a good match.

But the highlight of the day came at the end. When everyone else had retired to the bar I stayed outside bowling trying to figure out what it was that I'm doing to get smashed for 7.25 runs an over. I put a bottle lid down and was spot bowling and turning the ball away from the bat. My spot bowling was Top notch Grimmetesque in it's accuracy and turning it well. The Good bat had said when I was bowling - 'That's like Shane Warne but slower mate - good drift and turn'. (He was a spinner as well). The same Bloke came out while I was bowling and came over to me and had a chat and he had nothing but praise for my bowling saying that by a long way my bowling along with the captains was by far the best of the team. Our captains been bowling for 30 + years and he took two of the wickets today. He was full of praise for my accuracy especially with regards to the line of the bowling and the variation saying that I'd have been a real handful if I was bowling for 20 overs or more because it was the kind of bowling that would have tempted the bat to have a go, but at the same time was dangerous. He said that he'd been batting for 16 years and that batting against spin was his favourite aspect of the game as it was so challenging, but he also went on to say that most bats would have been troubled by my bowling and he could see that as the overs were being completed I was settling more into a rythmn. I asked 'So if I was bowling so well why did you and your mate hit me for 7.25 an over'?
"We're the best bats in the team - he's been playing 20 years plus - I love batting against spin and you were pitching it up just a bit too far". Needless to say I asked where he reckoned I should have pitched it? I explained that I pitch it on a length that is equal to batsman stretching his bat out with his back foot on the crease. He said - "Exactly - that's just a bit too long - I can actually reach the ball there - you need to bowl it another yard shorter - then I can't reach it and it forces me into playing defensive shots".
So, I came home got the stumps out and had a practice and was able to bowl that length straight away. So I'll look to practice that over the next week and maybe run it out in the next game and see how it goes.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I had a similar day again playing against a bunch of blokes of Asian descent from East London in our case. Similar story we were put into bat and after an initial slow start of of around 3 runs an over our No.3, No.4 got the runs chugging along and we finished on 199 off the 35 overs with one of the younger lad who's about 14 hitting his first ever 50 and then doing what no England player can currently do - he went on to score his first 100 getting 2 off the last ball of the match to bring him up to 100.

So then we had to defend the 199. 2 young kids were up first and they were dismissed pretty quickly and then a couple of seasoned batsmen came in and began to build a very good partnership with them both getting 50 and more. I got to bowl 4 overs (A different captain to the one I normally have) and went for 4-0-30-0 against 2 batsmen that were all over us and charging down the total we set. In the second over bowling to the better of the two I dropped a bowled and caught chance that smashed my thumb. I then had a ball that would have been caught at slips, but there wasn't a slips fielder and the the next ball off a Top Spinner came off the top of the bat and the wicket keeper reacted too slow and it went just over his head at a very catchable height and he only managed to parry it. This batsman when I finished up commended me on my bowling, although at 30 for nothing I wasn't that pleased. Other than that I had a good day in the field stopping some good balls destined for 4's and after chatting to Liz Wizard on the thread 'Pensioners pages' about stiff muscles and inability to run well - I'd followed her advice and was running like a Gazelle in the field. We were thrashed in the end something like 200 for 4 off 28 overs but it was a good match.

But the highlight of the day came at the end. When everyone else had retired to the bar I stayed outside bowling trying to figure out what it was that I'm doing to get smashed for 7.25 runs an over. I put a bottle lid down and was spot bowling and turning the ball away from the bat. My spot bowling was Top notch Grimmetesque in it's accuracy and turning it well. The Good bat had said when I was bowling - 'That's like Shane Warne but slower mate - good drift and turn'. (He was a spinner as well). The same Bloke came out while I was bowling and came over to me and had a chat and he had nothing but praise for my bowling saying that by a long way my bowling along with the captains was by far the best of the team. Our captains been bowling for 30 + years and he took two of the wickets today. He was full of praise for my accuracy especially with regards to the line of the bowling and the variation saying that I'd have been a real handful if I was bowling for 20 overs or more because it was the kind of bowling that would have tempted the bat to have a go, but at the same time was dangerous. He said that he'd been batting for 16 years and that batting against spin was his favourite aspect of the game as it was so challenging, but he also went on to say that most bats would have been troubled by my bowling and he could see that as the overs were being completed I was settling more into a rythmn. I asked 'So if I was bowling so well why did you and your mate hit me for 7.25 an over'?
"We're the best bats in the team - he's been playing 20 years plus - I love batting against spin and you were pitching it up just a bit too far". Needless to say I asked where he reckoned I should have pitched it? I explained that I pitch it on a length that is equal to batsman stretching his bat out with his back foot on the crease. He said - "Exactly - that's just a bit too long - I can actually reach the ball there - you need to bowl it another yard shorter - then I can't reach it and it forces me into playing defensive shots".
So, I came home got the stumps out and had a practice and was able to bowl that length straight away. So I'll look to practice that over the next week and maybe run it out in the next game and see how it goes.

sounds like you had a day a little like mine then. good bowling but no rewards!

from what the batsman said about pitching it that yard shorter, surely thats a defensive ploy to stop the batsman scoring runs as opposed to looking to take a wicket though?

im all for stopping the runs, but id rather take 3-50 off of 5 overs than 0-5. i think that if you have no choice but to take a defensive approach then the batsman has won the battle. thats why i think Rashid is missing a trick playing for England. he looks to contain, he doesnt look to attack.

maybe that yard shorter would also create problems and create a wicket as well. i guess its something to try. i pitch it VERY full, but i also get a lot of dip on the ball, so it isnt necessarily there to be hit. against right handers at least. against left handers i naturally seem to land the ball just a bit too wide of their off stump. if the batsman is aggressive and stands with his back foot at the front of his crease then he can basically hit me on the half volley outside off stump all day long. its the kind of bowling that id dream of as a batsman, but at the same time ANY mistake and its a stumping/edged catch/bowled if it turns.

today i was against a batsman that just looked extremely talented. he didnt make any mistakes, not a single one, against any bowler. i guess in that situation its a question of self preservation. if i had the ability to contain him instead of getting smashed for boundaries chasing his wicket then i might have got another over or 2 and got the right hander out. next time il have to recognise im being beaten sooner and make a change. its hard when youve only got 6 balls per over though to recognise when someone has the upper hand before its too late. 1 boundary could just be lucky. 2 boundaries starts to ring warning bells. but by the time they hit a 3rd the captain is already taking you off the attack.

the dilemma of a leg spin bowler in limited overs club cricket lol....

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I dunno - maybe it's a case of (Which no doubt it is) different approaches to different batsmen. Maybe when you're getting clattered all round the pitch this is something to try. The old bloke in our team who's registered as disabled and walks around with crutches and has a 2 step run up when he's bowling took both these blokes wickets just bowling straight with (he claims) top spin making the ball dip. I was fielding at Short mid wicket I didn't see any dip just dead straight bowling at different speeds on the length the batman mentioned and he really caused problems. I've seen old blokes similarly do it before one old bloke in a game we played in, bowled 8 maidens in 11 overs against our openers using the exact same strategy. It's a case of knowing whether you're bowling against chancers who look good or real bats and then knowing when to change tactics mainly and mix up containment with attack?

As you say 3 or 4 overs isn't enough to get going and my captain prior to the 4th over was giving it 'Wickets buy overs Dave'. Which I suppose is fair enough. But having said that I haven't looked at the score sheet yet to see how everyone else averaged out. I know my mate 'The Wizard' was smashed all over the shop by the same two blokes, he turns it big but couldn't land it on a helicopter pad if his lfe depended on it. I'll have to have a look.....

Here we go

4-0-17-1 - Off-spinner
4-1-29-1 - Quick
2-0-26-0 - Quick
4-0-19-0 - Quick
3-0-22-0 - Quick
3-0-30-0 - this is the other leggie.
3-2-4-2 - This is the captain who's registered as disabled 2 wicket maidens and he's about 60 years old if not older!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Oh yeah and any time you're feeling like you've had a bad time of it bowling just keep a link to this in your youtube favourites and give it a visit - YouTube - 27 runs in an over Vs Shane Warne

 

[gundalf7]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

lol looks like it was an expensive day for the leggies today, got a cut on my finger yesterday on my spinning finger practicing in the nets, ball came out wrong and took a chunk out the corner of my nail.

6 overs 1 wicket 43 runs today

first over was good only went for 2 accurate with a bit of turn even with a bloody finger, second was awful got a wide with an arm ball that swung to outside leg stump from outside off, the batsman was just sitting on the back foot looking to slog me over the short (35 yd) legside boundary. He connected with one and it went just inbetween the fielders and it went so close to the man on the rope at midwicket i thought i'd had him but it went for 6. Conceded a couple and a single too.

3rd over started well 2 inswinging arm balls the second knocking the stumps down for my wicket. Nearly had the guy first ball with a beautiful leg break that pitch on middle and bounced and turned and hit him on the glove and looped just short of slip(if he'd dived forward he'd have had him). Next ball was a single and the following the same, last ball was swept for four off a full toss which would have been a yorker if he'd not premeditated a sweep.

Fourth over was the worst of the lot the second ball got tonked for 6 was outside leg too much drift, tried to compensate and ended up bowling a wide down off, next was spot on and he cut it for a 2 to deep cover, 4th ball unfortunately was a short arm ball that ended up half way across the field over the back of the pitch for another 6. 5th ball was a huge thick edge that was in the air for ages but dropped between fielders but they got a single, over went for 16!!!.

Fifth over the damn batsman was on strike again and by this time i was bowling cross seam arm balls to stop the swing and to make sure he didn't have time to walk back across to nail me through leg. He knicked the first ball straight to the keeper and he dropped it it was a very thin edge. Second ball just to rub salt into the wound he took a huge swing and it disappeared over midwicket for 6. A couple more twos from off drives through the covers.

Final over was good only went for one, bowled 6 cross seam arm balls just for accuracy and only got a single off the 4th ball so i finished strong at least.

finally caught the damn guy that nailed me for all the runs got a huge top edge of a medium pacer and took a running catch over my shoulder, didn't think i'd make it. Took an even better one to get rid of the 1st opener he smacked a drive to my left at mid on and i dived to my left and took it 2 handed.

Batted for 3 balls, 1 longer than last time against an offie first ball defended second drilled drive for one through mid on. 2 balls later on strike again got a half tracker and tried to nail into the field but took my eyes off it and ended up being bowled ,lol.

For some reason since the injury i feel i'm bowling alot slower through the air and am gonna need to find a few more mph in the bowling to actually trouble decent batsmen with their eye in. My figures this year are absolutely shocking compared to last year, probablly am too flighty and am defintely a bit slower as the ball sits up off the surface alot more.

 

[gundalf7]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

This young one looks very grimmetesque. He states he is a fastish bowler. I think he has talent. I love round armers! YouTube - My Amazing Spin Bowl

weird action but would probablly take wickets or get tonked with the current way he bowls. The apparent drift is caused by the tennis ball like the baseball will behave very differently to a cricket ball due to the seam(which is why it drifts away).

I may have a game next saturday, as the league is finished (saturday side relegated) and we will play a sunday friendly on the saturday instead otherwise my season is finished.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

couldn't agree with you more mate. i was actually just saying to someone today exactly the same thing. his seam position is ludicrously poor! i'd love to be a big fan of Rashid, an English leg spinner! its the dream really isn't it? but i just can't seem to find anything to like about the guy as a bowler. his action is distinctly graceless. horribly jerky, upright and with the wrist wasting its energy going in the wrong direction. It just doesn't look powerful or dynamic and you really don't feel he is getting much on the ball. i find watching him to be an extremely frustrating affair! you just want to go and give him a push in the back to get that run up going. The odd one did turn a fair way but it was slow and just doesn't look very dangerous. the Aussies seem fairly untroubled by him anyway. he needs some serious coaching, get Warney on the case i say!

Stuart Mc Gill reckons he saw Rashid practising a flipper ,hand to hand, at lords on the the tv coverage the other night.

Greg Mathews was not as kind to Rashid as McGill was though. He was a bit tough on his bowling.

I still have not heard club team selections, but my young bloke and his mates approached the selector and asked could he try and keep then together so I think they will all be in 2nds.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

This young one looks very grimmetesque. He states he is a fastish bowler. I think he has talent. I love round armers! YouTube - My Amazing Spin Bowl

it would be quite easy to come up with a load of negatives about the kids bowling. however, hes very young, and is clearly generating large amounts of spin. tennis ball (or maybe an incrediball? i cant really tell) on fully grown grass will always rip. but has anyone taken a closer look at the "seam" position (e.g. the red/white seperation on the ball)? the kids seam position is absolutely perfect!!! if he could do that with a proper ball across 22 yards he would be a far better bowler than i am!

the youtube comments seriously arent helpful. some people are just saying it looks awesome. then some are saying it looks good but needs more pace - WHY?! turn the ball like that and it wont matter!! Shane Warnes optimum speed was below 50mph, batsmen dont have time to line up a shot when there is drift, dip and turn. then there are some people saying "try it with a real cricket ball on a real cricket pitch". the kid looks like hes about 10-12 years old, im not sure he really needs to be able to do it with a full weight ball yet over 22 yards. a kids weight ball over 16 yards would be a good start.

if i were a cricket coach for a county side, id have this kid in the youth team straight away. im not sure what country hes from, looks like its probably England. which sucks for him, because il bet nobody knows anything about Grimmett (they dont even know anything about leg spin), and they are all going to try and get him to move his arm up and bowl faster. i think he should stick with what hes got!

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Oh yeah and any time you're feeling like you've had a bad time of it bowling just keep a link to this in your youtube favourites and give it a visit - YouTube - 27 runs in an over Vs Shane Warne

the second ball in that video where he lands it really wide of off and then it turns further. if you reverse that so its a left handed batsman and the ball is pitching in the same place outside off, but on the other side, and then turning back in as much as Warnes did. thats pretty much how i was bowling to the left hander yesterday that smashed me everywhere. the batsman was about as aggressive as Maharoof is in that video as well. there was just nothing i could do about it.

its reassuring to know that Shane Warne found there was nothing he could do in the same situation though if a batsman has absolutely no regard for his wicket whatsoever then youre inevitably going to leak runs. you just have to hope for a wicket. the medium pacer that replaced me got hit just as badly as i did, and the winning runs as well.

if the bowlers at the start had contained their batsmen (easier said than done, they were VERY good) and they hadnt been so far ahead of the required run rate so early on then i wonder if the lefty would have been quite so risky in his shot selections. i need to work on bowling to aggressive batsmen, i might see if i can get a batsman to attack me in the nets this week. i was against an aggressive one the other day, he kept coming down the wicket and i found that easy to bowl to. but that isnt what happened yesterday, he didnt advance, he just had big shots from his crease. i should have maybe paid more attention to where he was stood (he may have been well forward. he was batting from 3-6 feet outside his crease to the medium pacer!!). if id identified him as standing forward i could have bowled shorter. but i dont think about these things yet, its all experience.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Yeah it takes time and experience to remember to look at those kind of things when you're so focussed on the fact that you're being mullered.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I hate that aspect of youtube, I never look at the comments on my video clips as I just find it depressing that people can be that negative. I think there's a clip of my younger son Joe bowling me indoors and the comments on his clip are unbelievably negative.

 

[GoldenArm]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

can anyone tell me which is the best autobiography or biography of Warney? i've never read any of them and i was just ordering some books off amazon and decided it was time! i'd rather read more about his cricket than his shagging obviously, so one that focuses on that would be great. Last game of the season yesterday, just a friendly against Ross on Wye but what a day! the pitch was very very dry and dusty and was taking spin better than any other pitch all season. it didn't have much bounce for the seamers or off spinners but it did for me for some reason. consequently i took 8-1-5-29 and the 1 maiden in the 7th over included 3 wickets! and a possible hattrick spanning two overs. didn't get it unfortunately. i wasn't thinking it through properly and i bowled a leg break when i should have bowled a toppie or a wrong un or a flipper or anything that wasn't going away from the stumps. i took a photo of the score book which will be going up on my blog, apologies for bigheadedness but blimey i felt great afterwards. i got 4 people bowled and one both stumped and caught behind, the umpire never did tell us which one he had given him out for. so all in all an eventful 8 overs!

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

ive noticed lately that i seem to be spinning the ball harder between my hands than before, so i figured it was time for some slow motion video analysis again. id previously measured my revolutions 3 weeks ago, with my leg break and flipper both producing 1050rpm.

so i measured it again today. and as i suspected, improvements have been made. quite substantial ones as well! my deliveries now rotate as follows...

leg break = 1200rpm (15% improvement)
flipper = 1150rpm (10% improvement)

and i also have a grip that ive been trying in my hands (not in actual bowling) that is essentially a normal leg break grip but using the wrist the opposite way to flick it like a flipper and my index and middle fingers to "snap" the ball out. it looks super slow in real life, but is actually rotating at 925rpm!! so il have to give that a try in the nets as a proper delivery. it should produce a more consistent wrong'un than my top spun flipper as its much more controlled out of the hand. it also looks exactly like a leg break apart from the wrist motion.

i also, not on camera, tried flicking the ball between hands from above my head as if i was actually bowling it (with the full arm motion, but slowed down so i didnt chuck the ball straight through a window or anything lol), and it most definitely rotates more in an actual delivery situation! so i need to get some slow motion video of me actually bowling next so i can measure the revs in proper application. im reckoning up around 1500-1600rpm.

im going to try and get a video online later of me spinning it between my hands. id like to get some bowling videos this week, just depends on the weather and finding an assistant to press the button on the camcorder!