Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I am currently reading a biography by duckworth on SF Barnes one of the best bowlers ever. In it are pictures of Barnes' grip. He gripped the ball with thumb and all the other 4 fingers with the index and middle finger slightly more apart. The grip looks like the one on philpotts book of the very young child gripping the ball on page17.

Duckworth says that he used to bowl the fast leg and offbreaks with this grip, sometimes destroying parts of the pitch with the spin. The funny thing is he bowled the topspinner with the same grip.... but the little side of the finger and hand faced the bat. Duckworth says that he did not deliver the topspinner as leggies do from the back of the hand but rather from the front of the hand. From the picture it looks sort of like grimmetts ball. Could he have been the pioneer not grimmett? Sorry do not have a scanner to post the pictures. I am sure Macca you would have seen the pictures. What do you think?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;356096 said:
Nope I'm totally baffled! But if it works who cares! What's your line and length like with it?
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It drags a bit short.

Like you're bowling a wrongun, but with the seam in the position a fast bowler would have it if bowling cross seam, and when you bowl, drag you're fingers down towards you, almost imparting top spin. The ball is spinning towards the batsman.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Nothing new here but found this by Danish Kaneria. YouTube - BigHitterMag.com Danish Kaneria's Master Class. Bowling Leg Spin

And also this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5YwERlf_yc&NR=1


And a strange way of bowling the flipper. Does not seem like the one we know. Looks like he is saying it is only a straight one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tigGj3Uh2j4&feature=related

Dave do you think you can add them to your site?

This is quite well put together too, even though the last ball looks like a small leg break not slider. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cs0Lg-Ri8I
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

My wrong un is coming back. Have a look at this video, I bowled 3 or 4 of these and then turned the video on and got this one and then started to try too hard and couldn't quite get it to go so big again, but I'll work on it more and get it more consistent. YouTube - Big Wrong Un

I also filmed a sequence of 12 balls bowling the Grimmett mystery ball. Because of the quality of the video the file size is enormous the clip above was 90MB and took 1/2 and hour to upload! The other thing is that the hand disappears out of the top of the frame in the footage so, how much merit there would be in uploading it to see it is disputable? But of all the Flipper variations that I bowl it is the one with the most audible click of the fingers and I'm growing to like it. I've still not used it in a game consistently, but it's getting to the point where I'll be confident to do so soon. I'm not sure of it's merits but it's certainly different to any of the other balls I bowl. As to how much it rushes on I'm unsure.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

hey guys went nets today recorded a few balls jus so you guys could take a look at my action,
could only video 3 balls lol because i used up all my memory on pictures but soon as i upload my pictures ill make a bettr vid!

YouTube - Leg spin bowling

:) thanks

p.s hope you like the audio haha, oh and friend kept having to move camera because he sat behind leg stump -.-
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;356693 said:
Nothing new here but found this by Danish Kaneria. YouTube - BigHitterMag.com Danish Kaneria's Master Class. Bowling Leg Spin

And also this YouTube - BigHitterMag.com Danish Kaneria's Master Class. Bowling the Googly/Doosra


And a strange way of bowling the flipper. Does not seem like the one we know. Looks like he is saying it is only a straight one. YouTube - BigHitterMag.com Danish Kaneria's Master Class. Bowling the flipper

Dave do you think you can add them to your site?

This is quite well put together too, even though the last ball looks like a small leg break not slider. YouTube - The Art & Science Of Shane Warne
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Yeah definitely, but I've got to point out that as you've said the bloke is talking out of his Jacksy when he demo's 'The Flipper' where he's got that idea from I don't know, he's obviously too busy flying from one country to another to sit and read Grimmetts 'Taking wickets' 1930 to understand the origins and technique behind the Flipper and again I have to make the point that these blokes simply haven't a clue about Wrist Spin history and the multitudes of variations. If anything the one he demo's as a Flipper is more akin to the slider surely?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;356621 said:
Don't you bowl any more Frodo? Sounds like good advice though, I might post that up on my Leg Spin blog. This is all good stuff for me as this is the part I'm learning now - how to recognise weaknesses and adapt your bowling to the batsman. What do you do with Left handed batsmen that are strong off the legs?
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Naa.......at 57 I'm more into gardening :p

I coached juniors and up to under 19's but gave that up. Had some great times down the WACA when my sons were learning the game. Got to know a lot of the players.

The leggy has more tricks in his book than any other bowler, and that's why it's the best, the very best. Get your captain and others to look for oddities of the batsman, you can't see it all. High back lift, slip the flipper in. Is he batting outside his crease so he can go back and pull or cut?

And is there bounce in the pitch? Then the sillies may come into play.

Left handers.....mmm.......freakish sods. Get out of the attack if on a synthetic track, but on a proper wicket just aim for the footmarks. Flipper for lbw. Googly for slip catch.

I also had success with what i called the finger ball. Easy to pick up, as it's not leg spin, if they last that long. Just surprises them, and is simple. Just one finger down the seam , pointing straight at the batsman, shiny side to off. Just amble to the crease focusing on a spot about a metre and a half in front of the batsman on middle and off. Then rip your finger down the seam and give it a bit of air. The backspin will defeat the swing until it drops, the batsman will play forward and the late swing will push it through any gate (sic) he wants to leave open. Like a golf fade.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

leggielaw;356220 said:
hey guys went nets today recorded a few balls jus so you guys could take a look at my action,
could only video 3 balls lol because i used up all my memory on pictures but soon as i upload my pictures ill make a bettr vid!

YouTube - Leg spin bowling

:) thanks

p.s hope you like the audio haha, oh and friend kept having to move camera because he sat behind leg stump -.-
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Your mate did a good job considering he was in the line of fire! I reckon it's not bad and pretty accurate too if you're getting it consistently there. I noted the planks in front of your stumps, are you getting the ball in between those planks for good length as that looks like a good idea. To me it looks okay, I can't see that there's any problem there at all, again a lot of people go on about actions and stuff but when you look at the differences in peoples actions Grimmett, Paul Adams (Frog in a Blender style) and Richie Benuad for instance they all bowl leg spin and they're all completely different. So I would say if what you're doing works for you stick with it. It's when it causes problems and you know there's a problem that's when you need to start looking at your action and try modifying it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

What do we all reckon to putting in Wrist Spinners as openers? I was used as an opener in my last match and was storming along till I came up against a leftie. But up till that point I was doing well. I've posted this on another thread - what do you reckon?

"Whether I'll be put in again to bowl against the openers remains to be seen, but I'm well up for it and actually think as a strategy it has it's merits. In the last game the team we played seemed to think that they had a really strong fast bowling attack and it struck me if that was the case the whole team would have spent the whole of their winter nets batting against their fast bowlers? Therefore the whole of the winter for their openers would have been based around the idea that they're expecting to face pace openers. You should have seen the fear on these blokes faces when they realised that I was opening with spin. I cleaned up both of them for 1 run in 3 overs - 2 x wicket maidens. They just didn't expect it and weren't prepared for spin going both ways, backwards, forwards, slow, fast, looping, skidding and most of all - accurate".

Because it's club cricket we batted first and then used the old ball to commence our bowling, whether that's standard practice or not I don't know, but my captain did say that if had been a new ball he wouldn't have used me in that way. I can see the rationale behind his thinking but I practice with shiny water-proofed balls and still get them to turn, as long at there's a raised seam the ball is going to turn. But that aside what about the strategy of using spinners against openers that wouldn't possibly be prepared for an opening attack of spin?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;356868 said:
What do we all reckon to putting in Wrist Spinners as openers? I was used as an opener in my last match and was storming along till I came up against a leftie. But up till that point I was doing well. I've posted this on another thread - what do you reckon?

"Whether I'll be put in again to bowl against the openers remains to be seen, but I'm well up for it and actually think as a strategy it has it's merits. In the last game the team we played seemed to think that they had a really strong fast bowling attack and it struck me if that was the case the whole team would have spent the whole of their winter nets batting against their fast bowlers? Therefore the whole of the winter for their openers would have been based around the idea that they're expecting to face pace openers. You should have seen the fear on these blokes faces when they realised that I was opening with spin. I cleaned up both of them for 1 run in 3 overs - 2 x wicket maidens. They just didn't expect it and weren't prepared for spin going both ways, backwards, forwards, slow, fast, looping, skidding and most of all - accurate".

Because it's club cricket we batted first and then used the old ball to commence our bowling, whether that's standard practice or not I don't know, but my captain did say that if had been a new ball he wouldn't have used me in that way. I can see the rationale behind his thinking but I practice with shiny water-proofed balls and still get them to turn, as long at there's a raised seam the ball is going to turn. But that aside what about the strategy of using spinners against openers that wouldn't possibly be prepared for an opening attack of spin?
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If you can land it consistently then it is always a good idea to change it up and open with a spinner every now and again. A lot of opening batsmen aren't good players of spin bowling and will be reluctant to play shots, or try and hit you out of the attack. Both of these can create wicket chances and also put the pressure on.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hi leggielaw,

Watched ur video and looks good..
Nice leg spin practice u have got....leg spin above the batsmen's eye level...good spin as well....if u invite the batsmen for a drive...chances are that he might fall for it...i also notice u have a smooth run-up and action...good one....
Dave,Notice his front leg's toe direction at the time of delivery...his body looks at ease while bowling...what do u feel?

Maintain the line and length and keep up the practice and post more videos as welll....we will appreciate the same...just tell ur friend to stand at the left side rather than standing behind the stumps....so he can be safe as well...
Keep up the practice...Best of luck...keep us posted...
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

In reference to you leg spin guide, is it possible to incorprate the big leg break into your actual bowling

Kind Regards

ToeGuy4u
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;357196 said:
Another good day at the office 6.4 - 4 - 8 - 3 so that will go towards improving my figures rather than damaging them. For the basic details - Wrist Spin Bowling: That'll do nicely G&CCC v SLHCC and the rest of the blog will be updated over the next few days with pic's and an account of the match.
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Good to hear the positives coming from you there, Dave.

Its been a long long while since I've visited here, due to a very very dodgy shoulder I've not yet played a game this season, looks like it'll be the final few games just batting for me!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

ToeGuy4u;356341 said:
In reference to you leg spin guide, is it possible to incorprate the big leg break into your actual bowling

Kind Regards

ToeGuy4u
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Yeah I definitely reckon so, it takes a lot of practice and there's a few blokes on here that'll testify to it (The Biggun). There's a lot of scepticism from people about bowling the ball back in towards yourself to get it to turn big, but the source of the idea is Peter Philpott 'The art of wrist spin bowling'. Some of the blokes that'll testify to it are on holiday at the minute and might not repsond in the short term but yes it's for real. Try and get hold of Philpotts books and read it. If you're Wrist Spinner you need to read it - it's the definitive guide to wrist spin bowling. Also try and read up on Clarrie Grimmett which is the original source of all this material he was the innovator of loads of obscure variations and possibly the greatest Wrist Spinner ever.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Mate! I was just thinking about you an hour or so ago, thinking exactly that - where's Simbazz I haven't heard or seen anything of him on here for months? Man, have I been busy on here as you might have noticed and with my own blogs, but I'm loving it. Everything came together in May this year, I sussed the Leg Break, read a few books by Clarrie Grimmett and now I'm statistically the best bowler on my team as far as I can figure out!!! Good to hear from you - how is your shoulder?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The big leg break does exist. I am very round arm and not as elegant as you young guns. So, my delivery is very different to your normal leg spinner. You will notice it as the seam is at right angles to the flight of the ball/to the batsman. It turns more than the normal leg break, and seems to bounce less, possibly due to the absent topspin and full side spin.

Having said that it sometimes goes straight on, my theory being either that it does not hit the seam or that it has backspin, so turning into a sort of slider. If you get philpott book, you will understand it. He calls it going round the loop with the wrist as dave has on his excellent web site. It is difficult, I spent a couple of years trying, but when it turns it turns big, even though I do not consider myself a big ripper of the ball. If released with the wrist in the right position even without great revs it turns a lot. By the way this refers to bowling on concrete and not turf pitches.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Danish Kaneria lets it rip | Photo | Sri Lanka v Pakistan 2009 | Cricinfo.com

Hey Guys, was just wondering on cricinfo and found this pic. It shows a perfect wrist position for setting up to bowl the legbreak. Now after looking at his front arm a question arises. Just like fast bowlers they delay their bowling arm for a while then propel it as soon as the front arm comes down and is tucked into the rib , is this what Kaneria is doing here?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;356300 said:
So bowling Leg Spin at lefties. What's the solution to that then anyone got any ideas?
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Congrats old boy. Well done again!

Most left handers are strong on their legs. They will deal violently with anything that strays into their legs by bowling too much at the stumps.

He must be attacked wide of his offstump in the footmarks/region of. etc etc.

Quote from the bible p100


A couple of weeks back I had asked you whether you met any lefthanders.I also would show them a googly early(you have a good one, so less of a problem to you). I would also try a big leg break outside his offstump(would cross my fingers I get it were I intend to). Would then bowl normal legbreaks with different flight and speed. I would hope that at the back of his mind he is always worried by the possibility of the wrong one, and the big turning legbreak. Easier said than done, but that is what I would try.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ripping-LegBreak;357407 said:
Danish Kaneria lets it rip | Photo | Sri Lanka v Pakistan 2009 | Cricinfo.com

Hey Guys, was just wondering on cricinfo and found this pic. It shows a perfect wrist position for setting up to bowl the legbreak. Now after looking at his front arm a question arises. Just like fast bowlers they delay their bowling arm for a while then propel it as soon as the front arm comes down and is tucked into the rib , is this what Kaneria is doing here?
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I can't comment too much, as my action is completely different, at the point where his bowling arm is, my leading arm would be directly out in front of me at this point in line with the throwing arm, so to me this looks odd. The only thing I would say is that everyone finds their own way that suits them eventually and if anyone sees this has having potential, the thing to do is try it yourself and see if it suits your bowling style?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

breeno;356017 said:
Hey boys.

I went to the nets the other day, and was bowling this weird ball. As I bowled, my wrist would deliver the ball from the reverse of putting your hand out to gesture 'stop', so the back of my hand faced the batsman.

I would have all four fingers along the seam, with the seam being sideways. As I delivered the ball, I would flick my wrist towards the batsman from the position described above, and would run all of my fingers heavily down the ball. This created heaps of spin going straight, but towards the batsman.

I have a feeling that it may have been a slider or zooter, but it could just be a weird ball.

If you get my description, maybe you guys could try it out and see what you think?
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Sounds like the mystery ball to me. A topspinner flicked out with part of the back of the hand facing the batsman. Or else I might have mid understood what you explained.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ripping-LegBreak;357407 said:
Danish Kaneria lets it rip | Photo | Sri Lanka v Pakistan 2009 | Cricinfo.com

Hey Guys, was just wondering on cricinfo and found this pic. It shows a perfect wrist position for setting up to bowl the legbreak. Now after looking at his front arm a question arises. Just like fast bowlers they delay their bowling arm for a while then propel it as soon as the front arm comes down and is tucked into the rib , is this what Kaneria is doing here?
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looks pretty much exactly how my action looks for a big leg break with a 90 deg seam position (or slightly behind 90 degs). hopefully my facial expression isnt quite so unflattering though lol. my non-bowling arm sort of starts out in front of my face, then i drop it down, my bowling arm starts bent holding the ball right next to my cheek, this also drops, goes round in a big circle and follows the non-bowling arm in one smooth motion. throw in the twist with the trailing foot "stepping" over and then the arms follow through like a fast bowler, but more rounded and less over.

i found a really interesting "problem" in my action whilst practicing the other day, its the biggest cause of my inconsistencies. i have a tendancy to start a session bowling "round", and become more and more "over" in my action. what i mean is that my bowling arm gets more and more upright, and my non-bowling arm starts to follow through by coming down to my hip, and not around (like how Shane Warne follows through on demonstration videos). i noticed this problem quite quickly, and im correcting it now. so long as my action keeps coming "around" and i keep my body more upright, i impart lots more spin on the ball, am more consistent with line and length, and generate drift and dip from flightly balls. when the action goes "over" and my body bends away from the ball (like a fast bowler trying too hard), the ball is delivered flatter, less spin (even though i generate the same proportion of revs with the fingers/wrist), gets delivered faster as well, and is less consistent. this does however give me a variation where the ball is faster, looks exactly like a standard leg break but will more often than not skid straight on. the subtle variations are the best. the "over" action also has a tendancy to deliver googlies when im trying to do leg breaks. this is definitely the technique for me to bowl the wrong'un, but for now im avoiding it completely, i practice maybe one every 100 balls just to get my arm muscles gradually conditioned to the uncomfortable wrist action. i need a strong, match-proven, wicket-taking leg break before i work on variations.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

leggielaw;356220 said:
hey guys went nets today recorded a few balls jus so you guys could take a look at my action,
could only video 3 balls lol because i used up all my memory on pictures but soon as i upload my pictures ill make a bettr vid!

YouTube - Leg spin bowling

:) thanks

p.s hope you like the audio haha, oh and friend kept having to move camera because he sat behind leg stump -.-
Click to expand...

Very nice relaxed action, with nice rhythm. Iwould try to pitch it up a bit more on turf, even though on matting due to the greater bounce you can get away with it. Try to experiment with the wrist position now that you have everything in place. I get the impression they are small legbreaks. It is good to have these consistent in line and length as you seem to have succeeded in. Tell us how you are progressing with the change in wrist position, but be careful to keep the smaller leg break going as this will be your stock ball. Well done. How much do you practice, and were you ever coached. If so were you ever given drills? The idea of the planks of wood is good, lately I started taking a small hoola hoop as I not good enough to land it on a coin as others here do. Next time will try blindfolded as well.The bottom line is, if you are consistent with line and length, and you are giving it a good rip, all you will need is subtle variation in pace and flight. Having a googly/backspinner helps, but do not get too lost with these.
Take care of your mate. How much do you pay him for risking his life for the sake of the art?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;355931 said:
i made some great progress today! the surface in the nets had dried back out from the sun, and finally im getting my leg breaks to turn on concrete, some of them are turning BIG! my line and length is still poor, but improving all the time. ive done a load of work on my follow through, and my body is rotating a lot more powerfully now and im generating much more rip on the ball. leg breaks are turning anything from 6" upto about 4 feet. my big leg break (90 degree seam, even backwards of 90 degrees) is gripping! which it never was before. if i could control the pitch of the ball better then it wouldnt be out of the question for me to bowl someone behind their legs i think!! as it is i cant land the ball within 2 feet of my target on a consistent basis, let alone on a penny as id need to for a "ball of the century" delivery lol.

im massively pleased at the progress. ive also found, by accident when i released a ball badly out of the hand, that i can generate just as much turn with a gentle finger/wrist action (e.g. less revs on the ball from the hand) and a more precise action and follow through, than i can when i absolutely rip the ball out of the hand but get the body action wrong. this is making practice much easier as i can focus less on generating spin with my hand, adopt a nice relaxed grip (Shane Warne always says this is key anyway, as a relaxed grip means a more flowing action), and then focus more on my overall action. but at the same time the ball is still spinning lots off the pitch so i am able to play around with line and length whilst still seeing what the spin does.

another week or 2 of practice and progress like this and il have to try and get myself video'd so i can get some more suggestions and pointers i think :D
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Great to see that you are enjoying and progressing. As regards the ball of the century there is also some help from the foot marks and massive revs on the ball. If you see the dismissal of Strauss round his legs, even in slow motion the ball looks like a top.

I think as others told you that practicing with a set of stumps helps without a batsman. You can experiment without fear of getting bashed, and also you can see how each ball behaves until it reaches the stumps. Occassionally you bowl to batsmen in the nets but this should not be your main focus in my humble opinion.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

wow, just had an incredible practice session. drove to the nets with a couple of cricket balls and no batsman!! thought it was time to practice with just me and some stumps so i could sort my line and length out. and ive ended up doing SO much more than just that.

first thing i did was to pace out the length of the wicket. i worked out how many paces i needed to take to ensure i was bowling from the right place. turns out that all of the other people that practice at the nets are bowling about 2-3 yards short!! as had i been. i tripled checked this against the measurements i got from the internet and also the wickets at the ground, and i was definitely now in the correct place. so i marked my spot, and this alone has made a MASSIVE improvement to my deliveries. i have to generate about 5-10% more power on the ball now to get it to go far enough. before i was struggling to ever bowl a good length, it was almost always short apart from the flipper. bowling from further away has for some reason encouraged me to flight the ball more and the results have been incredible. the ball is also 5-10mph faster and doesnt feel like its a really slow delivery anymore that could get whacked. it feels like it has a very good pace on it and that is a huge confidence boost.

so i started practicing leg breaks. lots of inconsistencies, lots of bad deliveries, very few good ones. so i started properly analysing my action. thinking about every aspect of what im doing, ignoring where the ball was bouncing and what it was doing. i started to get it more consistent. im trying to base it on Shane Warne as best i can, but with my only natural flow to it. i figure thats a good place to start. i have pretty much reinvented my action from scratch today!

so then once the ball was coming out consistently i worked on line and length. i put a couple of rocks in line with leg stump, one of them around 4 yards from the stumps, the other around 7 yards from the stumps. i actually took up a batting position and thought about where i would least want the ball to pitch if it was turning and worked from there.

so i worked on length at first. that got more consistent. then i worked on line. i planned to be there about an hour, but i started to get into a rhythm. so im bowling good line and length, getting average turn. probably 20-30% of the balls are what i would call acceptable. then all of a sudden i start to really hook it up, everything comes together.

so then i focussed more attention on my follow through. i wasnt rotating enough on my front foot or picking the trailing leg up enough. i really analysed this, and got it much improved. this yielded excellent results. accuracy was up to more like 40-50%.

then the single greatest improvement ive ever made to my game in this short time so far. i tried to bowl a top spinner! it came out wrong and had around 50% over spin with 50% side spin, but combined with the follow through being just right, and the wrist position that i adopted that i havent properly managed before, it pitched about 6 yards from the stumps, but as it got around 4 feet from the floor it drifted at least 8" from inline with off stump to pitch outside of leg. it then turned back and hit the back of the nets (about 2 feet behind the stumps) a good 12-18" outside off stump. without wanting to sound melodramatic, this delivery was literally Warne-esque, it looked like a good Shane Warne delivery on one of his "coaching" videos on YouTube. i was absolutely pumped.

so i set about recreating this, analysing every delivery. 2 hours later and im bowling a line between inline with leg stump and upto 12" outside, sometimes inline with middle stump if the mood takes me. it bowls faster than ive ever managed before, its hard to estimate such a thing, but id guess 45-50mph. the ball absolutely rips out of my hand because of my improved follow through, it drifts slightly in flight (its massively flighted, its an inch off hitting the bar at the front of the nets frame if i get it right!), then as it comes to drop down it dips heavily, drifts 12-18", pitches around leg to slightly outside, and absolutely rips back in with additional bounce and ends up going past the stumps about 12" outside off!!!

its absolutely magic to bowl like that, i must have bowled 150-200 balls minimum after i finally hooked it up, with around 30% perfect success and probably 80% were deliveries that i would be pleased to bowl in a match situation, and it just got better and better. i have very good control of line and length, i could land the ball on an A3 piece of paper i think now 70% of the time, im able to vary my line and length when i want to (i moved my rocks around to test myself). im just stunned at the progress and absolutely buzzing. apologies for writing such a long winded message, i just had to tell the world lol

ive also developed a different grip that i think has helped me hugely too. it came about by accident at my last practice session. it was a poor session and i really struggled. i find that i cant bowl 2 days in a row because im using muscles i havent used before and they are sore, and this stops me generating enough power and i have to try too hard and it just ends badly, and id bowled the day before. plus i had a batsman in there (my slogging brother, who was sledging me as well, REALLY not helpful. we were only there 20 mins because of this). but i found i couldnt grip the ball, so i placed my thumb on the ball for support, whereas before id have it as far from the ball as i could to keep it out the way. with the thumb on the ball the seam position has 99% stability, it almost always comes out straight, and is allowing me to rip the ball more. this in turn is obviously the major factor behind the drift and dip, as well as the large amount of turn.

this is all on a solid concrete pitch with a very low grip carpet surface on it. i wish i had a camera there to video it. im going to try and get a video later in the week though. i cant even imagine what it would do on a grass wicket with some footholes and rough.

now that im bowling from further away (the correct distance instead of the short distance) ive lost the flipper. i cant pitch it far enough with flight, so it ends up flat with hardly any spin and its just like a medium pace delivery. not that it wont catch some people out, its more like an arm ball now. the top spinner ive got working much better, and i tried a few wrong uns earlier on before i had really hooked up my action and got one to come back in slightly, it was more of a top spinner with a very slight amount of side spin on it. but that can be worked on later (much later!). once i hooked up the leg break i just didnt want to stop bowling it.

i left the nets 2.5 hours later feeling incredibly pleased with myself. im now sat at home aching like crazy! my neck aches as does my ring finger and my lower back. im sure il pay for it tomorrow, but i just dont care lol. as soon as the acheing is gone im going back down there again for some more!!!

i had to share that progress because im absolutely pumped. it is so incredibly satisfying to have a whole session where there is major progress from start to finish, and to come away feeling confident enough to want to play for a team straight away lol. im a little bummed there was no-one else arriving up there before i left who plays for the village side, as id quite like someone to see me bowling like that, they might even invite me along without me asking lol.

i need to get a video next. not that its of as much use with leg spin as it is with fast bowling. my action was undeniably working today as id want it to. i think i need to have maybe 3-4 individual sessions followed up by 1 batsman session. then repeat that cycle. just to verify the line and length against real shots. my brother only slogs, i think hes going to get a shock next time i bowl at him lol. those wild shots across the line of the ball are going to wind up as wickets. although i do struggle to hit the stumps because the overspin on the ball results in too much bounce lol
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

is it just me who thinks those 2 videos are pretty awful examples of how to bowl spin? all of them are running in far too fast, bowling with a very upright arm position, generating next to no spin at all, with no flight on the ball. the follow through is that of a medium pacer or fast bowler, the arms should be coming a lot more "around" (as i described above with my action, when i get my arm too vertical bad things happen). not that my action is in any way a great example, but these guys arent generating any spin or flight, so their actions obviously arent working for them like that either. the guy bowling the doosra just made the ball go straight on, how is that a doosra?! its just an accidental arm ball with that much pace on it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Good work! Brilliant to hear that you're so pumped. but take it easy with the shoulder otherwise you'll end up with a bad rotator cuff. Despite the fact that you're right on one now I'd ease up a bit and give yourself a rest otherwise you may injure your shoulder. If you're going to practice like wrist spinner you need to do some exercises that'll build strength into your shoulders and you should look at doing "rotational press ups" and exercises using resistant bands - grab the ends of the bands and pull them apart around the back of your head smooth action not jerky and fast.

What do you reckon the key to all this was? I reckon it's the fact that you've practiced on your own and you've been able to focus on all the things that you've needed to look at - am I right?

But it's good to hear that you've done so well - well done, but you need to temper your excitement as you normally have periods when it doesn't come together as well, so be prepared for that to happen as well, but just ride it and keep plugging away at your leg break - line and length and getting it to turn.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;357541 said:
is it just me who thinks those 2 videos are pretty awful examples of how to bowl spin? all of them are running in far too fast, bowling with a very upright arm position, generating next to no spin at all, with no flight on the ball. the follow through is that of a medium pacer or fast bowler, the arms should be coming a lot more "around" (as i described above with my action, when i get my arm too vertical bad things happen). not that my action is in any way a great example, but these guys arent generating any spin or flight, so their actions obviously arent working for them like that either. the guy bowling the doosra just made the ball go straight on, how is that a doosra?! its just an accidental arm ball with that much pace on it.
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I agree fully with you with respect to the amount of flight. I presume that would be the sort of pace that O'Reilly would have bowled.

As regards the arm, I am with you. The problem is till I videoed myself, I thought I was very vertical, but was shocked at how round arm i was. Warne on the other hand in the video with Nicholas says he had to remind himself to raise his arm to a more vertical position. I, have to really make a hard concious effort to get my hand really vertical. I think I might have some limitation in full abduction of the shoulder.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;356364 said:
Congrats old boy. Well done again!

Most left handers are strong on their legs. They will deal violently with anything that strays into their legs by bowling too much at the stumps.

He must be attacked wide of his offstump in the footmarks/region of. etc etc.

Quote from the bible p100


A couple of weeks back I had asked you whether you met any lefthanders.I also would show them a googly early(you have a good one, so less of a problem to you). I would also try a big leg break outside his offstump(would cross my fingers I get it were I intend to). Would then bowl normal legbreaks with different flight and speed. I would hope that at the back of his mind he is always worried by the possibility of the wrong one, and the big turning legbreak. Easier said than done, but that is what I would try.
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Yeah - the Leftie had me totally flummoxed. I remembered him from last year and thought that he was going to be easy to bowl against forgetting that last year I bowled Wrong Un's at international level standard and would have caused him real problems turning the ball away from him.

So today on my new practice wicket I gave the wrong uns a go and they were ok, but they're definitely something that I need to work on a bit more, I'm thinking I'll chuck one up every 4 balls in between the Leg breaks and see how that works out. But I get to play him again in Sept so I'll be working with that in mind and next time I'll have the ******* back in the sheds first over! Did you see my figures till that ******* turned up at the crease! 2 wickets for one run off three overs and then he screwed up my fun. I wasn't impressed but thankfully my captain saw fit to protect me and took me off. I think there's an agenda with some of the players at my club, I think they're looking to protect my stats and ensure that I beat someone - possibly my captain?

Another thought on the captaincy front with regards bowlers in general and I kind of think that I may have read this in Grimmetts 'On taking wickets' book. Does it make sense that while you're bowling your spell you're given a fielding placement that allows you almost an opportunity to rest in between your overs because I found myself running and diving around in the manner that a 16 year old should be and yet I'm 49 in a couple of days time and by the time I took my place at the stumps again I was knackered and ended up bowling short to the Leftie as well - which probably didn't help?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;356377 said:
Good work! Brilliant to hear that you're so pumped. but take it easy with the shoulder otherwise you'll end up with a bad rotator cuff. Despite the fact that you're right on one now I'd ease up a bit and give yourself a rest otherwise you may injure your shoulder. If you're going to practice like wrist spinner you need to do some exercises that'll build strength into your shoulders and you should look at doing "rotational press ups" and exercises using resistant bands - grab the ends of the bands and pull them apart around the back of your head smooth action not jerky and fast.

What do you reckon the key to all this was? I reckon it's the fact that you've practiced on your own and you've been able to focus on all the things that you've needed to look at - am I right?

But it's good to hear that you've done so well - well done, but you need to temper your excitement as you normally have periods when it doesn't come together as well, so be prepared for that to happen as well, but just ride it and keep plugging away at your leg break - line and length and getting it to turn.
Click to expand...

yeh, practicing without a batsman was extremely sound advice. just bowling delivery after delivery and being able to focus on exactly what im doing without losing concentration watching a batsman move around is much more useful. it was useful to practice with a batsman first though as it makes visualising their positioning, shots, etc much easier relative to what im doing. like i know that even though a ball that pitches well outside leg stump and comes back in to bounce over middle stump, it would be easy to play onto the leg side. it needs to be more to the off side than that to be a good ball. without a batsman there its easy to think that anything wide of off stump would just miss them completely. the bat tends to end up outside of off stump quite a lot though in reality. on the other hand, id guess once youve mastered line and length its very easy to vary it, so practicing without a batsman is easily the best way. i realise that now more than i did before.

the other things that made the progress so rapid today were just self realisations. ive obviously only been bowling for a VERY short amount of time, this was only my 4th ever proper practice session. i bowled more balls today alone than i have in all the other sessions put together. and being able to analyse your action and mime it and then pause mid action and think about where your feet are, what your arm is doing, etc makes it easy to make corrections. again though, with a batsman they are up the other end getting impatient just wanting deliveries bowled. more reason to practice alone!

ive been trying to have a play with the camcorder to record the ball spinning it between my hands. i drew a line on it with a marker pen and i was going to try and clock the revolutions. but the camera with a 30fps rate cant capture the line every revolution by the looks of it, its missing some out. so i guess that means its got at least 30 revs per second, which is pretty insane! i dont trust the camera though, its old and rubbish and the picture is fairly blurry, so i could be totally wrong. i need one of these new HD cameras with super slow motion capture on them. that would do it!

if i can get some video in the nets i should be able to, in theory, figure out how fast the ball is travelling as well, give or take a couple of mph. again though, im not sure the camera will be capable of doing it accurately enough. il have to see. just having some video to look at myself and show to you guys for some analysis will be useful though.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;357552 said:
I agree fully with you with respect to the amount of flight. I presume that would be the sort of pace that O'Reilly would have bowled.

As regards the arm, I am with you. The problem is till I videoed myself, I thought I was very vertical, but was shocked at how round arm i was. Warne on the other hand in the video with Nicholas says he had to remind himself to raise his arm to a more vertical position. I, have to really make a hard concious effort to get my hand really vertical. I think I might have some limitation in full abduction of the shoulder.
Click to expand...

i find that too vertical just doesnt help with the spin though. Warne says that he liked to bowl somewhere between round arm and vertical, that is pretty much the same as i bowl. if i get too vertical then the ball just doesnt turn as much and has more pace to it, it tends to skid on more. in those 2 videos they are very vertically armed, and combined with the other aspects i just dont think that works as well.

as for foul and insulting language, im not sure you need to take it that far, but without doubt if you can get under the batsmans skin with a bit of banter his mind is going to be distracted from shot playing, and in an extreme case i think you can even talk a batsman out. Andrew Flintoff in the slips with Tino Best batting for W.Indies springs to mind - "mind the windows Tino". next ball he played a huge slog, missed the ball and got stumped iirc, and Freddie stood there creasing up with laughter. Warne used this to great effect against Ian Bell in the 2005 Ashes series as well, they called him "The Sherminator", most likely for his striking resemblance to the character in the film American Pie. and he couldnt read the variations that would go straight on, and he got out a couple of times. so Warne just kept sledging him to distract him, and talking about what the ball was doing and going straight on. and it got him out a few more times i seem to recall. just by putting doubt in his mind.

how is sledging looked at in club cricket? hopefully il play some games some time before the season ends, id like to portray an image of extreme confidence to batsmen as i think it gets them scared without you even bowling that well. but im not sure if banter is frowned upon at club level, what with it being a gentlemans game and generally played in good spirits? will i get away with talking to someone about their mother and what she was doing last night? lol

one other thing that had me wondering, unrelated to any of the above - you have to declare what kind of bowler you are when you come on, right? e.g. right arm spinner (do you have to be as specific as leg spinner?), bowling over/round the wicket. i seem to remember this being the case when i played a little at school. i have an "arm ball" that goes straight on, substantially faster than anything else i bowl, probably up around 70mph. is this allowed? i saw Graeme Swann bowl a delivery at 77mph the other day in among his 50-60mph off breaks, and his faster ball took a wicket or 2. so im guessing its ok?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;356362 said:
The big leg break does exist. I am very round arm and not as elegant as you young guns.
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I'm Round arm too but I made one slight tweak to my bowling action. Before it wasn't really round arm ( though i thought it was) it was just that my bowling arm wasn't reaching to the top of the peak, ie i was flicking my wrist too early before my arm got into a decent height.

Anyways i was watching the likes of Mitchell Johnson, Fidel Edwards the fast slingers and I noticed one thing. To ensure the proper rotation of the arm in a directed way they flung their bowling arm behind and to the left side of their right hip ( for a right handed bowler) and this movement meant that the arm had to go around in a more natural directed movemen across the body. I've adopted this method and my legbreaks are coming out more naturally and effectively as the body,arm,pivot,wrist are all going *around* in the same direction.

The point of this post was to ask, do you have a similiar method when you bowl round arm?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

this evening was interesting. i went along to a local club for a training session, i got talking to the guy who runs a local cricket shop the other week and asked if he knew of any teams looking for a rookie leg spinner, and he said i should pop along to the team that he plays for. so i went along this evening, we arrived a little late and there was a match on, so we drove to the nets and parked up. were getting out of the car and one of the players runs over shouting "forget about that, weve got a match on and theres only 8 players!!". so it looks like were playing. i totally wasnt expecting that, but wasnt going to turn down the chance. the team was a midweek team which comprises a variety of 1st and 2nd XI league players and anyone else to make up the numbers. i think there were about 5 first teamers and the rest were 2nd XI aside from me and one other guy making up the numbers. the opposition i beleive were of similar stature, so it was by no means an easy game.

so i managed to scrounge some whites, we were batting and luckily i wasnt required. it was a 20-20 game but shortened to 17 or 18 overs because of some rain early on. so then we took to the field, i explained to a few guys that i was a wannabe leg spinner but had only been playing for 3 weeks and this was my first game. but they were all top guys and had nothing but encouragement, the guy who was captain for the game said hed give me a go at some point.

so i did my fielding, and then with 5 overs left i got called to bowl. the pitch was 3 matches old and had some nice footmarks and was quite roughed up. looked really nice for leg spin. i bowled my first ball, it was a wide, but the umpire said hed let me have that as a loosener. bowled my 2nd ball, same again, umpire surprisingly let it go lol. 3rd ball i got it right, loads of flight, pitched it up about a foot outside off stump. this was to their opening batsman who was still in, and he charged at it with a huge slog sweep. the ball span away past his bat, wicket keeper took it and stumped him :D wicket with my 3rd ever ball, i figured that couldnt be bad. first over went for 4 runs including a couple of wides, but took an important wicket. the new batsman didnt look great when he came in and he inside edged a wrong-un that came out more by accident than anything else and it missed the stumps. then he played down on one and the ball bounced over the stumps and only just missed. i could have had a hat trick in fairness on another day.

the captain let me have another over after that which wasnt quite so successful. i think i let the nerves get the better of me and i didnt focus on what i was doing, i was just bowling on instinct and not really giving enough consideration to what was going wrong. it wasnt bad, i bowled another wide. but this batsman was MUCH better and was hitting everyone. he hit for 2 consecutive fours, and i didnt really manage a good ball. i tried a flipper just for fun, it came out nicely and totaly deceived him, but it was leg side. had it been on target it might have caused problems as it stayed very low and zipped past him.

so not too bad. i wasnt even supposed to be playing, and im not really in a position where im ready for matches. but 2-0-14-1 on my debut isnt horrendous. they won the match with an average of 7.44 and my average was 7.00, so i was fairly happy. the fact ive only been bowling for 3 weeks impressed everyone a bit lol.

so il go back next week and do some net work hopefully, theyve got some coaches down there so i can get some advice as well. ive taken my first wicket though against a good batsman, so hopefully there are plenty more to come :D
 
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