Monty Panesar

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someblokecalleddave

someblokecalleddave

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Get in! 5 wickets for 57 off 27 over!

Monty Panesar could provide a precise figure for the effort he had expended in taking five for 57 from 29 overs to press his claims for a place alongside Graeme Swann as a second spinner in next week's first Test against Pakistan. But there are no guarantees that even that impressive analysis will be enough to persuade England to abandon the strategy that has served them so well over the past 18 months........... More

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jan/12/monty-panesar-stakes-claim-england?newsfeed=true
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Why, what was he up to doing or saying?????!!!!
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I was out and about in Worcester during the evening, he was out having a few drinks. I wasn't overly annoying, I went up to him and politely introduced myself and asked him if i could ask him a few questions about spin bowling and maybe have a little spinners chat which is always a pleasure i find. but he just rudely dismissed me and went off with his mates (who looked like a right bunch of gimps, i don't think they were cricketers) On the flip side I met Gareth Batty just before he left Worcester for Surrey (?) a while ago and thanked him for all his seasons of hard toil for my beloved County and he even sat down and had a pint with me and few friends. that's the way it should be done Monty! Respect the fans!
 
GoldenArm said:
I was out and about in Worcester during the evening, he was out having a few drinks. I wasn't overly annoying, I went up to him and politely introduced myself and asked him if i could ask him a few questions about spin bowling and maybe have a little spinners chat which is always a pleasure i find. but he just rudely dismissed me and went off with his mates (who looked like a right bunch of gimps, i don't think they were cricketers) On the flip side I met Gareth Batty just before he left Worcester for Surrey (?) a while ago and thanked him for all his seasons of hard toil for my beloved County and he even sat down and had a pint with me and few friends. that's the way it should be done Monty! Respect the fans!
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Yeah I can see both sides of the coin in that situation, but that situation comes with fame and you have to be couteous, so if he was rude, I guess he was wrong, but then he might have this sort of thing happen all the time which I reckon is pretty crap -
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Yeah I can see both sides of the coin in that situation, but that situation comes with fame and you have to be couteous, so if he was rude, I guess he was wrong, but then he might have this sort of thing happen all the time which I reckon is pretty crap -
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God what an idiot that bloke is, he should have been forced to face an over of Brett in the nets as a 'reward' for his sharp wit.
 
GoldenArm said:
God what an idiot that bloke is, he should have been forced to face an over of Brett in the nets as a 'reward' for his sharp wit.
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Yeah absolutely, some mates of mine did the same thing to Benaud and thought it was hilarious, these were blokes in their 30's and yeah they went down in estimation as to who they were as people.
 
Panesar 5 - Swanne - 0. Go Monty! From http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/17390336


Monty Panesar says his spin partner Graeme Swann helped him to a five-wicket haul on day one of England's match against the Sri Lanka Board XI.

Swann failed to take a wicket on Thursday, but Panesar says his team-mate creates "pressure" at the other end, and he feels "guided" by his level of experience.

The Sussex bowler took 5-37 as England dismissed the home side for 169, , with Stuart Broad having to withdraw after tripping on a boundary rope and spraining his ankle.
 
Anyone been looking at Panesar's bowling in comparison with Swannes in this current series? Especially you fingers spinners? What are the fundamental differences as they both use two different approaches? Listening to what the commentators have been saying and watching it, they've been more effective than the Indian spinners because they've been bowling...
1. Exceptionally accurately on a length that demands that they play off the front foot.
2. Both with a degree of over-spin meaning that the ball dips in an un-predicatable manner.
3. With enough side-spin and over-spin at a speed to produce drift.
Swanne - bowls slower and therefore bowls it above the eye-level and uses the over-spin and dip to create the sense of doubt, whereas Panesars speed offsets the flatness of the trajectory combined with all dip and drift?

Is that about right? Would it be true to say that one of the key elements if not the key element of their bowling is the accuracy? If that's true, does that 'On a length' aspect of the bowling differ from batsman to batsman dependent on their size (height) and reach?
 
Monty Panesar... He is another one of those left arm offies that I call "Underwood wannabes" They all just BENDDDDD the ball around a corner and then it straightens:mad: I hate to watch them, they are the epitome of the roller! Seriously, if they have enough revs to make the ball drift from the wide line to middle stump, shouldn't they also be able to make it turn, uh, I don't no, more than a nannometer! Why do all the left arm finger spinners use that angle????? Here is a classic example of a left arm finger spinner, who is supposed to turn the ball AWAY from the bat, but if you look at a hawk-eye presentation of the deliveries you'll see that none of them turn it away, it looks like an inswinger!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mhJz_k5xy2U
Those inswingers deserved to be treated that way. Left arm finger spinners, where's the rip??:confused:
 
Jacques Voigt said:
Monty Panesar... He is another one of those left arm offies that I call "Underwood wannabes" They all just BENDDDDD the ball around a corner and then it straightens:mad: I hate to watch them, they are the epitome of the roller! Seriously, if they have enough revs to make the ball drift from the wide line to middle stump, shouldn't they also be able to make it turn, uh, I don't no, more than a nannometer! Why do all the left arm finger spinners use that angle????? Here is a classic example of a left arm finger spinner, who is supposed to turn the ball AWAY from the bat, but if you look at a hawk-eye presentation of the deliveries you'll see that none of them turn it away, it looks like an inswinger!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mhJz_k5xy2U
Those inswingers deserved to be treated that way. Left arm finger spinners, where's the rip??:confused:
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A ball that angles in and then straightens off the pitch is just as dangerous as a ball that starts straight and then turns sideways. There's far more to spin bowling than just getting as much turn as possible.
 
SLA said:
A ball that angles in and then straightens off the pitch is just as dangerous as a ball that starts straight and then turns sideways. There's far more to spin bowling than just getting as much turn as possible.
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Of course, but I'm just curious... Drift is a result of revolutions on the ball, Monty Panesar seems to get a LOT of drift. Turn is a result of revolutions on the ball, so how come Monty, Danny Briggs, Robin Peterson, etc. get so much drift, but no turn? It doesn't make sense, it would if all that "drift" was just an angle they create with their arms, but why would they do it? Why sacrifice the very thing that finishes off the batsman after you beat him through the air??:confused: And I have seen some left arm finger spinners turn the ball tremendously from over and sometimes around the wickets, so it can be done!
- Shakib Al Hasan angling / drifting the ball from almost outside the wide line to leg stump, clipping the top of off... I don't think Ian Bell is the only batsman in the world who would have gotten out to that:eek:

Why don't we see more dismissals like the Shakib ball of the century? Or at least a ball that spins from middle to off stump? Instead of a left arm finger spinner who "turns" the ball from off stump to leg stump:)... Is this bend-straighten method the most popular way for left arm finger spinners to bowl? And if so, why? Who started it? What are the pro's and con's? Is this considered an attacking or defensive line?
 
Jacques Voigt said:
Of course, but I'm just curious... Drift is a result of revolutions on the ball, Monty Panesar seems to get a LOT of drift. Turn is a result of revolutions on the ball, so how come Monty, Danny Briggs, Robin Peterson, etc. get so much drift, but no turn? It doesn't make sense, it would if all that "drift" was just an angle they create with their arms, but why would they do it? Why sacrifice the very thing that finishes off the batsman after you beat him through the air??:confused: And I have seen some left arm finger spinners turn the ball tremendously from over and sometimes around the wickets, so it can be done!
- Shakib Al Hasan angling / drifting the ball from almost outside the wide line to leg stump, clipping the top of off... I don't think Ian Bell is the only batsman in the world who would have gotten out to that:eek:

Why don't we see more dismissals like the Shakib ball of the century? Or at least a ball that spins from middle to off stump? Instead of a left arm finger spinner who "turns" the ball from off stump to leg stump:)... Is this bend-straighten method the most popular way for left arm finger spinners to bowl? And if so, why? Who started it? What are the pro's and con's? Is this considered an attacking or defensive line?
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I don't think it is deliberate. If these bowlers could get the ball to rip square they would, but the pitches they play on simply don't take much spin.

Let me explain: finger spin is more reliant on a helpful pitch than wrist spin to get big turn - this is not due to a lack of revolutions, it is due to the different angle of rotation - topspin helps the ball grip on hard tracks, backspin inhibits grip. Finger spinners naturally bowl with a bit of backspin, legspinners naturally bowl with a bit of topspin.

Personally I bowl a mixture of wrist spin and finger spin. I find that on softer, dustier tracks my finger spun deliveries turn more, frequently going from outside leg to outside off like in your video, whereas on harder tracks my wrist spun deliveries spin more and my fingerspinners barely turn at all.
 
SLA said:
I don't think it is deliberate. If these bowlers could get the ball to rip square they would, but the pitches they play on simply don't take much spin.

Let me explain: finger spin is more reliant on a helpful pitch than wrist spin to get big turn - this is not due to a lack of revolutions, it is due to the different angle of rotation - topspin helps the ball grip on hard tracks, backspin inhibits grip. Finger spinners naturally bowl with a bit of backspin, legspinners naturally bowl with a bit of topspin.

Personally I bowl a mixture of wrist spin and finger spin. I find that on softer, dustier tracks my finger spun deliveries turn more, frequently going from outside leg to outside off like in your video, whereas on harder tracks my wrist spun deliveries spin more and my fingerspinners barely turn at all.
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That's an interesting theory! I have noticed most off spinners naturally start off by bowling backspinners, and leg spinners top spinners. But once you get more experienced in the art and learn new techniques you can achieve lots of top spin as a finger spinner. (And of course backspin as a wrist spinner) The downside to doing this is that you impart less revolutions on the ball if you try to achieve top spin in finger spin. (Unless you happen to be Graeme Swann) Muttiah Muralitharan was unique in that he could impart more top spin on the ball than any other off spinner, but he is of course more of a wrist spinner than a finger spinner.

Last season I also bowled leg and off spin but I abandoned off spin. I did get a bit of drift, and lots of turn. But everyone advised me to rather just focus on leg spin because the googly is all I need if I want to turn the ball the other way. My method of bowling off spin was more akin to a Murali off break than the conventional one. I bowled inaccurately that way but it had lots of potential... In a single day I managed to bowl the wrist doosra over 12 meters by using this method. Then I realized that I don't need any of those balls and stopped working on them. I'll shoot a video soon of my abandoned Murali off breaks soon so you can see how I bowl them and what the results are:)
 
On the internet, there's loads of stuff about Warners intentions to smack Panesar into the back rows of the MCG. With such blatant intent, does that not allow Panesar to come up with a strategy - could he not do something as simple as set him up and bowl wide and get a stumping when he comes charging down the wicket at him?
 
All Monty needs to do at the MCG is to bowl his usual slight variations in the right areas, and Warner will oblige and get himself out.
Glad Monty is back in. I think Swann in recent times had maybe been a negative in the dressing room. Go Monty! Go!
 
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