All time 11 from each test playing country

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courtjester

courtjester

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All time 11 from each test playing country

Some of you may have seen that cricinfo are selecting a best 11 from each test playing nation. Might be fun to do the same in here.

Who would be in the best 11 for:

Australia?
West Indies?
England?
South Africa?
New Zealand?
Pakistan?
India?
Zimbabwe?
Bangladesh?

And which nation would produce the strongest all time team?
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

Well the Australian one seems to be pretty well sorted on here from the All Time Australian Draft from a little while ago. Could perhaps debate on those 5 teams I think and choose the best out of them, then find the other countries.

Just bring up maybe the 8 best openers of all time for that country, have a debate as to who the two best are and pick them, then the number 3 and so on, down to your keeper, spinner, and other bowlers.
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

I've got my selections for each country at home on my computer somewhere. IMO I came to the conclusion (perhaps unsurprisingly) that Australia and England had the best teams, edging out the West Indies, India a clear fourth and then Pakistan and South Africa, then daylight, then New Zealand.

Bangladesh and Zimbabwe I didn't bother with because of their short histories as Test nations. Bangladesh I honestly couldn't pick more than four or five players. Zimbabwe - barring maybe one or two players at most, you've essentially got the Flower Power side of the late 90's.
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

Here is my Australian team:


Bill Ponsford
Bob Simpson
Don Bradman
Greg Chappell
Ricky Ponting
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Bill O'Reilly
Dennis Lillee
Glen McGrath
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

I went with this all-time combination, due to my insistence Allan Border be included:

Ponsford
Simpson
Ponting
Bradman (c)
Chappell (vc)
Border
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Lindwall

12th Miller

I've tried, but find it's too hard to work it out for all other nations, since I can only go on record books for some countries without knowing whether a bloke bowled spin or seam, or if he opened or batted at 6.
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

I don't think Bradman should be captain. From what I have read in his biographies and such his captaincy caused him a lot of troubles that he could have done without. He didn't particularly like being captain.
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

M.Hayden
M.Taylor (c)
D.Bradman
G.Chappell
R.Ponting
S.Waugh
K.Miller
A.Gilchrist
S.Warne
B.Lee
D.Lillee
G.McGrath

12th Man- Bob Simpson


I picked Mark Taylor based on his captaincy and slip fielding, because with a bowling attack like that, you want the best 1st slip possible ;). He wasnt bad with the bat either.

Between Hayden and Simpson was a tough one, but the way Hayden used to dominate bowling attacks, i just couldnt leave him out. (As well as averaging over 50)

Putting Brett Lee in was a tough one, but he has 300+ wickets to his name. In his prime, he was the best fast bowler in the world, so I dont see a reason not to put him in.
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

That's a very modern line-up: only 2 blokes who didn't play in the 80's or later.

It's not easy to rate players from past eras when all you have to go on is the word of someone else who never saw them either. For that reason, I came up with a team from each of the main Test-playing nations, but from the past 35 years, rather than all-time. As you would expect, it takes up a bit of room but I'll present it if anyone cares to further debate this issue.

Boris;379246 said:
I don't think Bradman should be captain. From what I have read in his biographies and such his captaincy caused him a lot of troubles that he could have done without. He didn't particularly like being captain.
Click to expand...

That'll teach me for sticking my neck out and nominating someone for the position! Bradman's record stands apart, regardless of his recognised personality issues. How could anyone possibly tell him what to do?

Theoretically, you could give the leadership duties to any of a handful of those guys and the only problem they would have is the amount of well-credentialled troops they'd be giving orders to.
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

Sober Symonds;379302 said:
That's a very modern line-up: only 2 blokes who didn't play in the 80's or later.

It's not easy to rate players from past eras when all you have to go on is the word of someone else who never saw them either. For that reason, I came up with a team from each of the main Test-playing nations, but from the past 35 years, rather than all-time. As you would expect, it takes up a bit of room but I'll present it if anyone cares to further debate this issue.
Click to expand...

In reality as the game went on the players would have gotten better, which means the more modern the line-up the more chance they would have of winning when stating in general. Bowling speed has increased two-fold and with the introduction of technology every aspect of a technique can be analysed and made better. Take Brett Lee for example, three times has he been to an independent professional and changed parts of his action down to the millimetre to get more speed out of it.
This means that when stated generally, a squad of the past is most likely be beaten by not even the best squad of today.

My idea of a draft, however is analysing the players against likewise players of their time and deciding how much of a dominance or clear air between them and other similar players. The best example is Bradman. Really he might not even be up to the standards of Ponting or Tendulkar or similar of today, if he were playing today it might have been different, but because he was easily twice the skill level of any other batsman at the time it made him a better batsman then say Ponting will ever be, he will not likely be statistically better than Tendulkar or even dominate bowling attacks again.

You have to decide whether you want a team made up of the best players ever, or the best players in comparison to their time. Otherwise we are going to end up with something like the 2003 Aussie team with a few add ins.

Sober Symonds;379302 said:
That'll teach me for sticking my neck out and nominating someone for the position! Bradman's record stands apart, regardless of his recognised personality issues. How could anyone possibly tell him what to do?

Theoretically, you could give the leadership duties to any of a handful of those guys and the only problem they would have is the amount of well-credentialled troops they'd be giving orders to.
Click to expand...
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

Sober Symonds;379302 said:
That's a very modern line-up: only 2 blokes who didn't play in the 80's or later.

It's not easy to rate players from past eras when all you have to go on is the word of someone else who never saw them either. For that reason, I came up with a team from each of the main Test-playing nations, but from the past 35 years, rather than all-time. As you would expect, it takes up a bit of room but I'll present it if anyone cares to further debate this issue.
Click to expand...

In reality as the game went on the players would have gotten better, which means the more modern the line-up the more chance they would have of winning when stating in general. Bowling speed has increased two-fold and with the introduction of technology every aspect of a technique can be analysed and made better. Take Brett Lee for example, three times has he been to an independent professional and changed parts of his action down to the millimetre to get more speed out of it.
This means that when stated generally, a squad of the past is most likely be beaten by not even the best squad of today.

My idea of a draft, however is analysing the players against likewise players of their time and deciding how much of a dominance or clear air between them and other similar players. The best example is Bradman. Really he might not even be up to the standards of Ponting or Tendulkar or similar of today, if he were playing today it might have been different, but because he was easily twice the skill level of any other batsman at the time it made him a better batsman then say Ponting will ever be, he will not likely be statistically better than Tendulkar or even dominate bowling attacks again.

You have to decide whether you want a team made up of the best players ever, or the best players in comparison to their time. Otherwise we are going to end up with something like the 2003 Aussie team with a few add ins.

Sober Symonds;379302 said:
That'll teach me for sticking my neck out and nominating someone for the position! Bradman's record stands apart, regardless of his recognised personality issues. How could anyone possibly tell him what to do?

Theoretically, you could give the leadership duties to any of a handful of those guys and the only problem they would have is the amount of well-credentialed troops they'd be giving orders to.
Click to expand...

Bradman was a very sick man while he was playing and suffered from sever joint pains. When the war began he didn't get to fight because he couldn't even pass a simple easy eye test! He really needed glasses to be playing cricket, but still managed to do what he did. Bradman finished his career early after missing many games, especially after getting the captaincy. Because he was also a selector, some players hated him and even formed a little club inside the team of anti-Bradmaneers. His captaincy also dragged down his performance, he started only hitting low 100s or not even getting to 100 because of the added pressure. If he weren't captain and had more stress put on his already failing heart, he would have easily averaged over 100.
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

Bradman has many critics don't dismiss their claims so quickly. He was at times, to his peers and successors, a horible and opinionated person.
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

Indeed his obsessiveness to be the best he could at everything he did was annoying to others with lesser ability and/or drive. He set very high standards for those he played with, and those who represented the country thereafter. Nevertheless, he successfully captained our greatest teams.

What about these Greatest XI's - has Courtjester thrown up an idea and left us holding the baby???
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

Thumbs up;379332 said:
Bradman has many critics don't dismiss their claims so quickly. He was at times, to his peers and successors, a horible and opinionated person.
Click to expand...

But at the same time he was a gentle, caring and a great human being. It's a hard thing to imagine, but he was a human, not some mythical figure. He was the legend of all time, but like many legends he wasn't completely noticed until he was gone. He had his scandals but it doesn't reduce the idol that he should be.

There are two sides to every story.
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

The West Indies would be incredibly strong

Lara, Viv Richardson, Worrel, Weekes, Sobers, Marshall, Ambrose, Gibbs, Headley, Garner and more.

Would rival if not take down an Australian worlds greatest
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

I take it you mean Viv Richards? Just a thought, it wouldn't be out of the question if Richie Richardson had a son and named him after his great mentor!

Got to concur with you that the best WI XI of all time would match it with any. Based on the limitations I outlined earlier, here's my sixpence worth ...

Aus

Taylor
Hayden
Ponting
Chappell
Border
Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Alderman

Eng

Gooch
Boycott
Gower
Thorpe
Pietersen
Greig
Botham
Knott
Willis
Underwood
Snow

WI

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Lara
Chanderpaul
Lloyd
Dujon
Marshall
Garner
Holding
Ambrose

Ind

Gavaskar
Shewag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Azharuddin
Laxman
Kapil Dev
Dhoni
Kumble
Bedi
Srinath

Pak

Anwar
Majid
Zaheer
Miandad
Inzamam
Yousuf
Imran
Akmal
Akram
Waqar
Saqlain

NZ

Fleming
Turner
Taylor
Crowe M
Jones
Cairns
McCullum
Hadlee
Vettori
Bond
Morrison

SAf

Kirsten G
Smith
Richards
Kallis
Kirsten P
Pollock
Proctor
Boucher
Pollock
Donald
Ntini

SL

Jayasuriya
Dilshan
de Silva
Jayawardene
Samaraweera
Tillakaratne
Sangakkara
Vaas
Fernando
Muralitharan
Malinga


I'm happy to expand or contract the timeframes, but stop short of "all-time" purely based on our understandably limited knowledge of past greats from other countries.
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

Good on you Sober Symonds, they were the sorts of teams I was looking for.
 
Re: All time 11 from each test playing country

Boris;379645 said:
Good on you Sober Symonds, they were the sorts of teams I was looking for.
Click to expand...

Thanks Boris. I'm so glad someone recognises that I went to such effort!!!

Now if we could just work out where courtjester got to?
 
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