Blueprint to rebuild Brett Lee

[big blue]

Re: Blueprint to rebuild Brett Lee

To maximise their potential, all athletes must be as strong as they can be; mentally, tactically and technically as well as physically. This is totally different to, and should not be confused with, bulk.



All personal trainers are strong but if you are talking about superficial aesthetics [without getting too metaphysical] this is a sad, outdated view... however, I am not too worried about this; after all, it provides my bread and butter .

Weight lifters/body builders know how to lift weight and build body. It is unlikely that you will find one who is also a cricket coach so will have no idea about how to train functionally. As I say, as long as guys continue to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut, my business flourishes.

No- not all personal trainers are strong- that is the point.

Im not talking about aesthetics- im talking about physical ability- how can you respect a strength coach who is not stronger than you or a fitness coach who is not fitter than you (or at the highest levels as fit/ strong as his athletes).

Functional training? if you look at the way powerlifters, olympic weightlifters and strongman train these days they train a lot more functionally than modern day personal trainers.The best training ideas come out of gyms not textbooks. Its so bad when a trainer says for instance to do a one legged squat but they cant do one themselves.

a guy who can overhead squat 100kg has got more knowledge about "functional traning" than your modern "stand on a swiss ball and do and overhead press" personal trainer will ever have.

trainers have to practice what they preach otherwise they suck.

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Blueprint to rebuild Brett Lee

This is getting very, very silly now.

Sorry, powerlifters, olympic weightlifters and strongmen training is functional to cricket how?

How does a 100kg overhead squat improve your cricket?

As for "how can you respect a strength coach who is not stronger than you", it is just as well the Olympians don't agree with you or there would never be new records lifted; they would be restricted by their coaches max... it's just as well the Olympic sprinters can see the bigger picture too or they would still be running 100m in 12s as their coaches did.

You will always find guys in the gym who can pump heavier than you, some will know what they are doing, most will not. The idea that somebody would rather take advice from the big guys who do not know what they are doing rather than a smaller guy who does is archaic and the reason why so many in the weight room suffer niggles these days.

I advise people starting out with weights to seek advice from a personal trainer. If your gym employs losers I am sorry for you but you should be taking it up with them... but that reminds me...

To all you starting out, remember, you get what you pay for, if you want to be trained by chimps, pay peanuts.

 

[big blue]

Re: Blueprint to rebuild Brett Lee

Im talking about functional strength- a big part of sports.

So you are a personal trainer who says a 100kg overhead squat will not do anything for a cricketer?

So it wont:

a) give him functional strength

b) functional flexibilty in his shoulders back hips ect

c) it wont give him functional balance

d) it wont give him more power- like jumping ability

This is not about functional training for cricket its about functional strength training full stop.

Are you one of these coaches who think functional strength training involves a bosu ball? haha

If you want to get functionally strong you go to people who are functionally strong.

"Sorry, powerlifters, olympic weightlifters and strongmen training is functional to cricket how"

So if a fast bowler wants to get stronger- these guys wont know how to do it? So he need more strength in his back legs and core- these guys wont know how to do it, they will know better than you- i mean its not as if they train for it themselves is it? I suppose hes better off going to you?

To people starting out- if you want to get stronger go to people who are strong - who knows more about strength- a stong person or a weak person?

i think you should Stick to teaching spin classes and leave the strength training to guys and gals who practice what they preach.

Read the articles at: westside barbell.com and tell me how the methods these guys (and the world) are using wont help cricketers and every other sportsman/woman.

And then tell me powerlifters dont know anything about functional strength- i think you will find they have forgotten more than you will ever know.

 

[MV!]

Re: Blueprint to rebuild Brett Lee

I think the point Liz is trying to make is that the strongest, fastest, and most powerful trainers aren't necessarily the best equipped to teach. Afterall, when all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail - many incredibly strong people don't necessarily train the best way that they could; they have incredible genetics, that allow them to recover in ways others can't, etc. People who aren't genetically equipped to train like that, just simply won't reach the same heights. The best coaches recognise this, and train their pupils in the best way. I think the same point can be used for coaching - I only play hack club cricket, but I don't believe that limits my capacity to identify faults in the under 17s that I coach, and then turn them into better cricketers than I currently am.

Plus I don't think Liz was saying that if you took the average cricketer and gave them the capacity to overhead squat 100kg they wouldn't be better cricketers: Just that it's not a necessary tool for a cricketer, and one that won't necessarily maximise their cricketing potential in the same way as a 100kg clean would. (oh yeah, and I can barely overhead squat half my body weight, and certainly can't do it for any more than 3 or 4 reps- mostly due to horrid shoulder and hip flexibility. I wouldn't mind a 100kg OHS... or Clean) In a cricketing sense, the benefits of the overhead squat are mostly in the increased body awareness and coordination they develop.

It's good that you bring up Westside Barbell - while Westside gives birth to the best Powerlifters, their methods can be fantastically adapted to cricket strength training (and just about every sport, actually.) Especially the Westside programs tailored towards Powerlifters competing in Deadlift and Squat events - they do a hell of a lot of dynamic work: Box Jumps, Depth jumps, Speed Deads, Box Squats, etc. Especially great for bowlers, I reckon!

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Blueprint to rebuild Brett Lee

i think you should Stick to teaching spin classes and leave the strength training to guys and gals who practice what they preach.

I am a personal trainer, not a fitness instructor.. sorry you are unable to recognise the difference. Perhaps that is where your problem lies.

Out of curiosity, what makes you qualified to presume you know what I teach? You do not know me, you do not know how I train, you have not asked any questions about my training, you have not spoken to any of the 2012 Olympians I train, you have no idea what I look like or what programme I personally follow, you just profess to know everything. You must believe you are psychic too

Pay attention to MV... you might learn something.

Just a reminder, this is a cricket forum, specifically bowling and fielding. If you wanted to talk power lifting, there are plenty of forums out there dedicated to bulk and full of like minded people.

 

[storm]

Re: Blueprint to rebuild Brett Lee

Im talking about functional strength- a big part of sports.

So you are a personal trainer who says a 100kg overhead squat will not do anything for a cricketer?

So it wont:

a) give him functional strength

b) functional flexibilty in his shoulders back hips ect

c) it wont give him functional balance

d) it wont give him more power- like jumping ability

This is not about functional training for cricket its about functional strength training full stop.

Are you one of these coaches who think functional strength training involves a bosu ball? haha

If you want to get functionally strong you go to people who are functionally strong.

"Sorry, powerlifters, olympic weightlifters and strongmen training is functional to cricket how"

So if a fast bowler wants to get stronger- these guys wont know how to do it? So he need more strength in his back legs and core- these guys wont know how to do it, they will know better than you- i mean its not as if they train for it themselves is it? I suppose hes better off going to you?

To people starting out- if you want to get stronger go to people who are strong - who knows more about strength- a stong person or a weak person?

i think you should Stick to teaching spin classes and leave the strength training to guys and gals who practice what they preach.

Read the articles at: westside barbell.com and tell me how the methods these guys (and the world) are using wont help cricketers and every other sportsman/woman.

And then tell me powerlifters dont know anything about functional strength- i think you will find they have forgotten more than you will ever know.

Are you stupid?

 

[breeno]

Re: Blueprint to rebuild Brett Lee

Im talking about functional strength- a big part of sports.

So you are a personal trainer who says a 100kg overhead squat will not do anything for a cricketer?

So it wont:

a) give him functional strength

b) functional flexibilty in his shoulders back hips ect

c) it wont give him functional balance

d) it wont give him more power- like jumping ability

This is not about functional training for cricket its about functional strength training full stop.

Are you one of these coaches who think functional strength training involves a bosu ball? haha

If you want to get functionally strong you go to people who are functionally strong.

"Sorry, powerlifters, olympic weightlifters and strongmen training is functional to cricket how"

So if a fast bowler wants to get stronger- these guys wont know how to do it? So he need more strength in his back legs and core- these guys wont know how to do it, they will know better than you- i mean its not as if they train for it themselves is it? I suppose hes better off going to you?

To people starting out- if you want to get stronger go to people who are strong - who knows more about strength- a stong person or a weak person?

i think you should Stick to teaching spin classes and leave the strength training to guys and gals who practice what they preach.

Read the articles at: westside barbell.com and tell me how the methods these guys (and the world) are using wont help cricketers and every other sportsman/woman.

And then tell me powerlifters dont know anything about functional strength- i think you will find they have forgotten more than you will ever know.

She isn't saying strong people don't know what to do, shes just saying a weaker person not knowing what to do isnt always the case.

Shes saying size doesn't matter as long as people know their stuff.

 

[MV!]

Re: Blueprint to rebuild Brett Lee

Are you stupid?

While the bit that got personal at the end wasn't necessary at all, the ideas about training in the same methods as powerlifters/ olympic lifters/ strongmen certainly aren't stupid, no- many of the best strength and conditioning coaches in the world have vastly different ideas on how to best prepare athletes. Again, the attack on Liz at the end wasn't necessary, but don't shoot down the idea of incorporating powerlifting into cricket strength training because it's not what you're used to hearing.

I use a power lifting progression at the beginning of every off season to rebuild strength that i've lost during the season, simply because it helps build functional strength in the quickest way possible. I know David (oh, and high fives!) has recommended people use the Stronglifts 5x5 program for off season strength training, which is a program that is borne from powerlifting ideas. With that said, during preseason you're focus has to change, at some stage, from developing raw strength to developing power, endurance, etc.

But seriously. Give me a 20 rep back squat challenge over interval running anyday.

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Blueprint to rebuild Brett Lee

But seriously. Give me a 20 rep back squat challenge over interval running anyday.

We all have preferences; exercises we like and exercises we don't like. It is unfortunate that to maximise our potential, we must train all the systems necessary for a sport. In cricket, although many hate it, you know that to ignore HIIT you do so at your peril.

Although the weight room cannot be ignored, it is just unsustainable to believe that only the Charles Atlas look-a-likes know how to train sportspeople. It is also very worrying that somebody, who cannot perform lifts correctly and safely themselves, thereby causing 'niggles', believe it is their crusade to encourage others to do the same.

What is stupid and extremely reckless is to suggest that everybody should perform the same lifts, over the same weight, regardless of individual RM.

Forget individual capacity and ability; I would not train an Olympic Lifter the same way I would train a sports person. I would not train a cricketer the same way I would train a rugby player. I would not train a back the same way I would train a forward. I would not train the front row the same way I would train the back row. Training must be specific to the demands on the body of the individual. Although all would improve initially with an 'off the peg' programme, this improvement would be limited and in some cases can be detrimental to their performance.

However, you must remember that I do not train club sportspeople. These guys come to me when they want to move on from this level. Unfortunately, most of the damage has already been done by then, which is what makes my job difficult, as I have to start retraining the systems and correct imbalances. This is why I said I wished these people came to me from the start, it would save them a lot of time, blood, sweat, tears and MONEY! Sometimes, they come too late and there is nothing I can do with certain injuries caused by incorrect technique. Can you imagine how sad it is to see a young person who has international potential, knowing they will never get there because of abuse caused by poor training?

Also, you must not bin the leg press just yet When performed with good technique, it can be a vital part of certain programmes, especially when training without a partner/PT. It can train the eccentric phase of the movement with far more consistent control and variation than with free weights