Does Australia have the best fast bowling group in the world?

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Does Australia have the best fast bowling group in the world?

The Punter made a point the other day that he believes Australia has the best group of pace bowlers in the world, at full strength it is hard to argue. Lets review the names and discuss?

Brett Lee - test career all but over, but still has something to offer with the white ball. Capable of bowling 150 +.

Ben Hilfenhaus - a well built fast bowler who charges in off a short run. Capable of moving the ball either way. His action allows him to move the ball away from the right hander through the air. Has a great bouncer. Capable of bowling 140+. Ideally suited to test cricket more then ODI cricket.

Peter Siddle - burst onto the scene against South Africa in the 08/09 season. Capable of reaching speeds up to 150 km. Will charge in all day.

Mitchell Johnson - debuted in the 07/08 season, already he was nearly 150 test wickets as well as a test ton. Capable of bowling upwards of 150 km/hr. Has a strange ball release that allows him to tail the ball into the left handers and away from the right. His release point is almost identical to where a right hand bowler would release the ball, consquently many batsmen play at balls that they don't have to.

Doug Bollinger - a hustling and bustling bowler who operates on a totally different line to Mitchell Johnson providing a nice contrast to the attack. Avergaes in the mid 140's. Can swith between swing bowling and back of the length work if needed. Has taken 27 test wickets in 6 test matchs at 24. Arguably Australia's best bowler at this point in time.

Shaun Tait - the real ace in the pack in the white ball format. Was Australia's best bowler in the 2007 WC, easily the quickest bowler in the world. His best work will probably be in the T20 format, however a return to the ODI side cannot be ruled out.

Ryan Harris - Once again another Australian bowler capable of reaching speeds up tp 150 km/hr. Hits a nice line and length and has already torn sides apart in the ODI format bursting into the scene and demanding a spot in the first eleven.

Clint McKay - Will play in the New Zealand tests now that Peter Siddle is injured, only averages in the 130's but is very tall. Im very impressed with this guy, probably isn't ideally suited to the ODI format but can perform a role in the test side similar to Stuart Clark. Hitting a good line and length with the ball going either way off the deck, has only played one test match but greater things await.

Shane Watson - Could originally bowl at speeds up to 150 km an hour before another injury meant another change in his action. Has mastered the art of reverse swing and grabbed vital wickets in Australia's test summer. A genuine all-rounder.

What a group of bowlers. I can't think of any country, outside South Africa, that could claim to have such a group of genuine seamers.

Discuss.

 

[TeeJay1860]

Re: Does Australia have the best fast bowling group in the world?

That is a pretty formidable group.
About a year ago i would have said SA could have challenged them, and i reckon in about a year they could challenge again. Ntini is gone unfortunatley and i think parnell and de wet need time to mature.

Steyn i think is the worlds best fast bowler today. i know johnson tops the rankings but steyn is just more consistant, and swings it more regularly, and later.
Morkel bowled VERY well to an in form strauss and is shaping up to be a very strong bowler - his height is always a plus. would probably rate him above all bar lee and perhaps johnson
Kallis - when fit - is better than watson no doubt, he's a great swing bowler as his stats show
Parnell is pretty impressive in ODIs and will become a strong test bowler im sure
not to sure about De Wet - hes not the youngest of players and Im not sure bout Tsotebe either, but thats because i havent seen enough of him yet.

Other than SA at the moment theres not much of a challenge from elsewhere. a fit WI could have potential - Fidel Edwards, Jerome Taylor, Kemar Roach, Dwayne Bravo - but i wouldnt think they would be as good as SA or Aus

 

[Caesar]

Re: Does Australia have the best fast bowling group in the world?

Ima going to move this to the Australia forum, not because this is necessarily the wrong place for it but because I think it's better suited there. Discussion specifically focused around the Australian team is probably best there.

The redirect will be left which will help draw traffic.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Does Australia have the best fast bowling group in the world?

"At full strength" is a bit of a qualifier - quite a few of those guys have a very patchy service history. Personally I doubt we will ever see the day when all those players are fit, in decent form and available for selection. Also, I would like to see Harris and McKay perform overseas before I start touting them too much. Finally, most of our bowlers are a lot better with the white ball than the red. One or two injuries to the key Test pacemen and that team gets a heck of a lot weaker very quickly.

That said, I think Australia have the best allround attack. There's a few Test sides that would have an edge under specific conditions - England at home springs to mind first and foremost - but that's about it.

Out of curiosity, why did you exclude Bracken from your list? He's out of the frame at the moment, but probably closer to selection than Lee.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Does Australia have the best fast bowling group in the world?

I just don't think Bracken will be selected for Australia again, in any form of the game. He has been around the scene for nearly 10 years in the ODI team, and I just think it is time to move on.

I don't mean to be unkind, but part of the reason why we struggled this time last year in the ODI format was because we had Bracken opening the bowling. He was unable to get those early wickets and South Africa were sitting on him early and then taking him down town late in his spell.

These days, with the powerplay being taken late in the innings, most teams can afford to be a bit cautious early on when batting and cash in late.

Bracken is medium pace and at his peak had a beautiful inswinger that got him a lot of wickets early on. However, his habit of bowling bulk cutters in turn resulted in him losing that inswinger and hence his ability to get wickets at the top of the innings.

He was a good ODI player, but his time has come and gone IMO.

 

[gbatman]

Australia's Bowling Depth

Just thinking about the depth in Australia's bowling and it has probably never been this deep ever.

We have pace men Siddle, Johnson, Bollinger, Harris, Tait, Nannes, Watson and McKay at our disposal and we have the spinners in Hauritz who is bowling very well and improved out of sight and Smith who is the young potential filled leg spinner. Bracken and Lee, Hilfenhaus are also counted if you want to count players injured/coming back from injury.
I don't think we or any other country has ever had depth as deep as this. This asks massive questions to the selectors IMO of who should be in what side.

 

[TeeJay1860]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

I agree with you mate, but isnt this similar, if not identical to the threat created by LtD just below?...
Edit: sorry the only exception being the inclusion of spinners in this thread

 

[BabyBlues]

Re: Does Australia have the best fast bowling group in the world?

As far as depth goes, we're going bloody well. I don't think our best 3-4 pacemen are the best in the world (that honour would have to go to South Africa), but with such talent, such competition for spots, we're in the strongest position pace-bowling wise. We're very shaky when it comes to spin stocks though; Hauritz is doing magnificently at the moment but if he goes down, next in line for the Test squad is quite possibly Steven Smith, who has done very little in the longest form of the game with the ball (though is considerably better performed in the shorter forms).

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Does Australia have the best fast bowling group in the world?

Plus there is the great Dirk Nannes bowling at 150ks as well for backup and probably first choice in the T20s

It is a shame he wont be considered for NZ, after thinking about it for a while I thought he would be a great choice, but 3 left arm quicks isnt likely to happen

 

[gbatman]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

I agree with you mate, but isnt this similar, if not identical to the threat created by LtD just below?...
Edit: sorry the only exception being the inclusion of spinners in this thread

oh dear, so it is ! My bad, merge away mods.

 

[mas cambios]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

oh dear, so it is ! My bad, merge away mods.

Merged.

On paper the bowling stocks look good. Time will tell though (I always think it takes around 18 months for new cricketers to get worked out) especially once they've done the circuit and visited India/Sri Lanka.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

I would have included Stuart Clark and Nathan Bracken, not just because I like them both, but because they are in the frame. I think Bracken will play at least one game again and I would like to see Clark have one more Test as a send off to see what he is still capable of with all these injuries (if they are ever fit that is).

I wouldn't call them the best in the world though. I think they are mediocre at best in Tests, no standouts at all, and in ODIs I think they would be struggling to keep up with a South Africa or an India. I would expect some heavy assualts against England later this year in that form.

They are all young and inexperienced as a generalisation, so I think it's a very tough call to say they have the best.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

Merged.

On paper the bowling stocks look good. Time will tell though (I always think it takes around 18 months for new cricketers to get worked out) especially once they've done the circuit and visited India/Sri Lanka.

IMO Australia's bowling is rising, and rising fast. We are producing wickets with bounce and carry which at the moment is foreign to everyone bar Australia and South Africa with predictable results.


You'll get a first hand experience in England this year, and our attack will be peaking come the Ashes series in November - I have no doubt about that.

We are smashing teams at the opponent, toying with them. People carry on about the Windies pushing us in the test matchs, but truth be told, that was soley due Chris Gayle.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

IMO Australia's bowling is rising, and rising fast. We are producing wickets with bounce and carry which at the moment is foreign to everyone bar Australia and South Africa with predictable results.


You'll get a first hand experience in England this year, and our attack will be peaking come the Ashes series in November - I have no doubt about that.

We are smashing teams at the opponent, toying with them. People carry on about the Windies pushing us in the test matchs, but truth be told, that was soley due Chris Gayle.

Frankly, there is little glory to be had from thrashing Pakistan and the West Indies at the moment.

I'm with mas, I want to see these bowlers perform on foreign soil against decent opposition. The South African pacemen are getting results against India on the subcontinent as we speak.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

Frankly, there is little glory to be had from thrashing Pakistan and the West Indies at the moment.

I'm with mas, I want to see these bowlers perform on foreign soil against decent opposition. The South African pacemen are getting results against India on the subcontinent as we speak.

India are riddled by injury - those SA pacemen had to rely on juiced up pitches to get a result against England. It goes both ways.

Im not sure if you saw Australia beat India 4-2 in the ODI's?

 

[Caesar]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

I'm talking real cricket here, not pyjama parties. Test matches are a completely different beast to the short game on the subcontinent.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

I'm talking real cricket here, not pyjama parties. Test matches are a completely different beast to the short game on the subcontinent.

I had the notion it was the group of bowlers, without regard to the form they are playing?

 

[Caesar]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

I don't really count limited overs as that impressive since the ball talks so much. Most Test pacemen can succeed at the short form; plenty of good ODI bowlers are rubbish with the red ball.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

I don't really count limited overs that much - the white ball talks so much more. Most Test bowlers can succeed at the short form, plenty of good ODI bowlers are rubbish with the red ball.

In the same way, plenty of Test bowlers are rubbish with the white ball. I think these days both forms are much more equal with skills required. Saying that, though, I am of the firm belief that if you had to compare a Test bowler with an ODI bowler, the Test bowler always wins.

Anyway, I think Australia has a very good group of fast bowlers contracted there, and a good supply. Nowhere near as good as the past (and not just the McGrath/Warne era) but passable. Wouldn't say it's the best group in the world though.

Also they are very young as a whole so anything can happen in the next season.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Australia's Bowling Depth

I don't really count limited overs as that impressive since the ball talks so much. Most Test pacemen can succeed at the short form; plenty of good ODI bowlers are rubbish with the red ball.

Im not just counting limited overs stuff either, by taking a holistic view of their first class stats and my judgement on them based on my experience of cricket.

I like our stocks at the moment, finally we are leaving grass on the wickets and we are seeing overseas batsmen struggle with the bounce and the pace.

Bollinger tore West Indies apart today on a flat deck in 38 degree heat, getting Hadidn to take the ball above his chest. It was great bowling.