If you were Australia's bowling coach...

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Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

gbatman;387329 said:
fair enough but a spinners main role is to get the tail out, it always has been, he's bowling out the tail and taking a few top order wickets, i think thats a more than respectable effort. With modern test cricket the tail tend to be able to bat a bit and if a tail is allowed to wag then generally you lose to that side.
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Unless your team is Pakistan or the West Indies. They had 4 number 11s each and some pretty crummy wicketkeepers. His stats where overinflated by these tailenders. UNtil he takes a quality 5fa in the test arena or heck just in a sheffield sheid game I may give him a little more respect for his cricket ability.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

D.K;387364 said:
Unless your team is Pakistan or the West Indies. They had 4 number 11s each and some pretty crummy wicketkeepers. His stats where overinflated by these tailenders. UNtil he takes a quality 5fa in the test arena or heck just in a sheffield sheid game I may give him a little more respect for his cricket ability.
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It's a good stand to take, that, and I'm 50/50 with you.

I think he has turned into a better bowler to look at while he has been bowling. He now has some quality deliveries and is exciting to watch, not straight balls that are easily kept out. Slows them down and gets spin. This is usually the lead up to those quality 5fas and top order wickets.

Hopefully this is the case, because the only international quality spinner in Australia at the moment IMO is McGain, but that's not really an option.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

Well until the next legend comes along, and I can't see it happening soon, Hauritz will do just fine, but I do look forward to smith coming into the side as a genuine all rounder. I think between him and Hauritz they could cause a lot of damage in the future with both bat and ball. I also do believe with one being an offy and one a leggy and one being very economical they they would make a good bowling combination bowling in tandem, this is very important to an individuals success, who he bowls with.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

spinners should be able to get the tale out easily, should. The turn dip drift is generally enough to bamboozle less capable batsmen. But they should also be able to nick out wickets in the top order too, a la Warne, Murali and Swann (dont read into this - im not comparing him to the two greats just showing how hes got people like ponting, smith, kallis, duminy out)

Imo, every recognised bowler should be able to get wickets up and down the order, to expect them to do less is a) indicative of their lack of ability at the highest level, and b) surely an insult to the players themselves. The only people who should be aiming for tailender wickets, or breaking up big partnerships, would be people like Katich, part timers who are either inconsistent, where a good ball could suprise a set batsmen, or unusual (eg chinaman)
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

gbatman;387431 said:
I also do believe with one being an offy and one a leggy and one being very economical they they would make a good bowling combination bowling in tandem, this is very important to an individuals success, who he bowls with.
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This I definatley agree with, or maybe bowling hauritz for a long spell and then giving the leggie a short burst from the same end. batsmen might be expecting the ball to turn into them (or not at all - :p) and misread the break off the pitch
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

I disagree entirely with this notion of devaluing Hauritz's success.

Hauritz was roundly ridiculed by opposition fans and Australian fans, this has been going on more or less since his debut in 2002 against SA in SA in the ODI format. On that tour he helped us tie a game with the bat along with Jimmy Maher from 9-223 to 259.

It was an early indication of Hauritz's 'can do' attitude.

He surprised a lot of people during the Ashes until he picked up a leg injury at the end of the 3rd test, Australia won the 4th test easily however prior to the 5th test Hauritz wasn't sure if he could get through the 5th test with his injury, the selectors eventually lost patience with Hauritz umming and arghing and decided it wasn't worth the risk to take an injured player into the game.

Despite what many people said about Hauritz's non-selection, I have it on very good authority that there was concerns about the injury. It was never fully published however Robert Craddock (who has a great reputation for getting all the info) alluded to it briefly in a piece in the Courier Mail a few weeks back.

At the end of the day Hauritz was the leading wicket taker for us this summer against Pakistan, that is a great achievement, whether or not the wickets were gimmies is a matter of opinion - fact is Hauritz surprised a lot of people, not least himself.

As much can be told by his batting - with his cavelier attitude reminding many of the way Shane Warne used to bat.

Hauritz could well end up with 150 + test wickets, he currently has 53 wickets @ 29.6. A very respectable acheivement. He also averages 22+ with the bat at test level.

If Hauritz does go on to take 100+ test wickets @ 30 odd and average mid 20's with the bat many will say that many other players have done better in the history of the game, but when you consider Hauritz's history and his journey back into the test side plucked from a 2nd eleven NSW - this potential achievement would be nothing short of astounding.

I wish him all the best.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

Warne took a lot of tail end wickets, should we take them off him?
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

Kram81;387463 said:
Warne took a lot of tail end wickets, should we take them off him?
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Are you talking about my comment? IF so then you have missed the point completley. I stated that a spinner was expected to have success against the tale, and true, Warne did get tailenders, but he was in the habbit of getting very competant top order batsmen out too.

Hauritz just hasnt shown that enough for me.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

TeeJay1860;387469 said:
Are you talking about my comment? IF so then you have missed the point completley. I stated that a spinner was expected to have success against the tale, and true, Warne did get tailenders, but he was in the habbit of getting very competant top order batsmen out too.

Hauritz just hasnt shown that enough for me.
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Going over Hauritz's stats against the Windies and Pakistanis, 14 of Hauritz's 29 wickets came from top 6 batsmen. 5 of them removed the wicket of the top scorer, or the next top scorer when the top scorer was dismissed by him as well. 6 of his wickets were batsmen that had posted 50 or more (plus 2 in the 40s). 12 came from bottom 3 batsmen.

Clearly, Hauritz is more than capable of taking the wickets of quality batsmen. There is a slight bias towards lower order batsmen and tailenders, that is true, but it's to be expected when spinners are introduced later in the innings. Most of the time, by the time Hauritz was introduced into the attack, at least a couple of wickets had fallen; these were top-order wickets that were simply out of Hauritz's reach.

You can only dismiss who you bowl to. Hauritz has shown that when bowling to top-order bastmen, he is more than capable of dismissing them and taking big wickets. Like all spinners, however, he bowls more to lower-order batsmen and tailenders, and so of course dismisses more of them.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

I've been saying it for some time, one of the reasons we struggled to find a spinner after Warne retired was the fact that most spinners get belted under Australian conditions.

Just look at the international spinners who have come here to get put to the sword, Murali averages 100 per a wicket here in Australia.

Hauritz may average 40 at first class cricket but in reality he may be a lot better then that due to the penchant of Australian batsmen to hammer spinners that come to Australia.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

I think some people need to grow some balls and admit that Hauritz has played well and proved them wrong...
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

Kram81;387542 said:
I think some people need to grow some balls and admit that Hauritz has played well and proved them wrong...
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well said, that and stop trying to dig up rubbish stats and statements to prove themselves right and just accept the true stats that show that Hauritz and Watson are having great seasons and are getting great results and that the baggers are wrong.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

Kram81;387569 said:
Hauritz collects 3 wickets caught in the outfield :D
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It's good bowling, put the turn on the ball get the drop and drift and ask the question, one of the best ways to get wickets as a spinner IMO.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

gbatman;387672 said:
It's good bowling, put the turn on the ball get the drop and drift and ask the question, one of the best ways to get wickets as a spinner IMO.
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If they pick out the fielder almost dead on from a slight mishit I count that as bowler's doing. If they absolutely hammer it but not strong enough to get it over the rope, or just a stupid shot to a bad ball, then I count it as a batsman's mistake.

Hauritz earned those wickets.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

Boris;387681 said:
If they pick out the fielder almost dead on from a slight mishit I count that as bowler's doing. If they absolutely hammer it but not strong enough to get it over the rope, or just a stupid shot to a bad ball, then I count it as a batsman's mistake.

Hauritz earned those wickets.
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he did, as a spinner i understand you have to set a batsman up to make them play a big shot and then bowl a ball that many call a bad ball cos it's slow but if you are going to bowl slow then it requires more skill to get results as accuracy and flight (caused by the ammount of spin and angle of spin) need to be really good. You can get away with over pitching or slightly short of you only bowl darts but you will never take many wickets, especially in Australia.
 
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