Jumping off the Wrong Foot

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Boris

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Jumping off the Wrong Foot

In the club I am at now there is a 17 year old bowler who jumps off the wrong foot.

We have all known this for a long time, but he is a very good bowler, and he personally hadn't actually noticed he was doing it, thought it was normal.

He does the skip off the right foot (right handed bowler), and then lands on the right foot which starts the delivery stride. He is a very front on bowler and is deceptively quick, has a lot of pace coming through his upper body when his lower body looks lazy and just a shuffle through the crease, no real jump as such, just more of bowls on the jog is what it looks like.

It doesn't look healthy really, looks like an injury may occur, but he hasn't had a problem so far with it and really is quite a good bowler.

One night the coach approached him and said "Mate, you do know you are bowling off the wrong foot?", which he replied with "No".

I was wondering if he should attempt to change his action? He is very comfortable with the one he has now and isn't lacking pace at all, and most of all is a young talent. If he did fix this problem, though, he would probably gain some pace and widen his variation. He is deadly accurate as it is, so nothing to worry about there.

Is it worth changing his action and metaphorically sending him back to the dark ages with his bowling, just to get some added benefits? Also tips on getting him to do so.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

Sohail Tanvir does it for pakistan and in the IPL so im not too sure that it would be much of a problem. I spose the question is does it look unhealthy or unnatural.

I kno for sure if i tried bowling like that id break, tear or stretch something, but if he's been doing it for a while, and its his natural action then im not sure if it should be changed.

I couldnt say for definate, not having seen him bowl, thats just my opinion
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

He looks comfortable doing it, but he is only 17 and fit, so still young and supple. I reckon that his action might cause some trouble to a 30 year old for example. Not completely sure though, it's not as if I have sat down and actually examined his action.

I would think that he would get some extra speed out of a 'proper' action though, he is quick as it is which may lead to him being much quicker. Maybe also extra variation balls? He might be able to bowl different balls with a different action not retricting him, can't swing it that much for example, that might change.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

General consensus seems to be that it is not ideal but a lot of factors have to be weighed up before even considering to change it.

Some players can get away with it and remain injury free with minimal stress on the body but others won't be so lucky. The main issue with the wrong foot action is that it places stresses in different parts of the body compared with the standard action.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

I'd run this by liz ward on the fitness and nutrition pages. My son was similar very good and accurate with pace but jumping off the wrong foot - but he's only 10. Liz said to get him to change it as soon as possible otherwise the longer you leave it the more difficult it would be to rectify. She also said as above - it might be okay now but later on in life it'll potentially catch up with you. My son sorted his action out within a week - but then he was 10.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

10 years old is a lot different to 17, wherein lies some of the problems. 10 year olds will normally have little cricket behind them and as such changing actions is (relatively) an easy process. You were lucky that you caught it when your son was young, rather than a few years down the line.

It is a bit of a minefield as it is not just the physical factors to consider but also the mental. Is your player willing to put the work in? What, if anything will he gain from it? At the moment he is young and seemingly indestructible, I doubt he has given much thought to what may happen 15 years down the line. There is also the consideration that he may be out of bowling action for a while - can he bat or at least do something so he is still involved.

If you can try to get a video of the guy bowling, it will help a lot when offering advice. One thing to try is to get him to walk through his action. See if he still goes off the wrong foot.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

mas cambios;386645 said:
10 years old is a lot different to 17, wherein lies some of the problems. 10 year olds will normally have little cricket behind them and as such changing actions is (relatively) an easy process. You were lucky that you caught it when your son was young, rather than a few years down the line.

It is a bit of a minefield as it is not just the physical factors to consider but also the mental. Is your player willing to put the work in? What, if anything will he gain from it? At the moment he is young and seemingly indestructible, I doubt he has given much thought to what may happen 15 years down the line. There is also the consideration that he may be out of bowling action for a while - can he bat or at least do something so he is still involved.

If you can try to get a video of the guy bowling, it will help a lot when offering advice. One thing to try is to get him to walk through his action. See if he still goes off the wrong foot.
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He's actually just moved a nine hour drive from here, no longer playing for the club, but I'm still in contact and said I could ask around for an opinion elsewhere for him.

He is taking the end of this season off and is planning on going through the off season changing his action to get it right by September. He has therefore actually started changing it.

He is very mature for his age, much more than I was anyway, and I think he will go somewhere in cricket so is open to any ideas and will definitely put the work in.

Just got word from him, he gets soreness in the lower part of his back and some knee soreness after bowling. Getting worse and worse as he bowls more. Might be worth changing with this information now? Soreness is nothing bad, just annoying.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

Boris;386716 said:
Just got word from him, he gets soreness in the lower part of his back and some knee soreness after bowling. Getting worse and worse as he bowls more. Might be worth changing with this information now? Soreness is nothing bad, just annoying.
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Chances are it's an early sign of the stress he's putting on his body. It might only be soreness now but it can lead to bigger problems down the line. Think of it this way, soreness is always caused by something, it's just finding out what the cause of the soreness is. It may be a simple case of DOMS or it could be something more serious such as the beginning of muscle or tendon problems etc.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

What do you think are some drills to get him to change this problem?

It is quite difficult to change once you are in a stage of automation and he has had some trouble getting out of his habits.

Anything you can suggest without actually seeing him?
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

Boris;386729 said:
What do you think are some drills to get him to change this problem?

It is quite difficult to change once you are in a stage of automation and he has had some trouble getting out of his habits.

Anything you can suggest without actually seeing him?
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not based on any kind of expert opinion, but if it was me i think the first thing id do is to walk through my action, or at least slow it all right down. bowl like that until it becomes second nature and then gradually increase the speed until you get back up to full speed.

its going to be almost impossible to just change front leg at full speed. probably dangerous as well. so whatever he does its going to have to be at reduced speed for now. there might be some other more specific ways to adjust though as well as reduced pace.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

What Jim has posted is one of the best ways to do it. Start by walking through and going from there. It is going to take time though.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

Oh, this really is a minefield.

Is this guy 6' plus in height?

This case concerns me a little... great that the coach broached the subject but why did somebody not mention it earlier. Too many people believe the saying, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', refering to the bowler's success, but 'broke' should refer to the bowler's health, fitness and longevity. No good getting loads of wickets in youth if you are unable to take your children out for throw arounds in your thirties due to past injuries.

At 17, this is going to be hard... if he is an A Class bowler, this is going to be harder. Many guys at this age have tried to change their actions on their own and have messed it up completely.

From what you tell us, it appears that this guy has too much rotation for a front on bowler, so there are other things going on too.

I really would suggest this guy gets himself a good coach qualified in biomechanics.

Still like to see a video though... if possible :)
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

Thanks Jim and Mas.

Liz Ward;386807 said:
Oh, this really is a minefield.

Is this guy 6' plus in height?

This case concerns me a little... great that the coach broached the subject but why did somebody not mention it earlier. Too many people believe the saying, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', referring to the bowler's success, but 'broke' should refer to the bowler's health, fitness and longevity. No good getting loads of wickets in youth if you are unable to take your children out for throw arounds in your thirties due to past injuries.

At 17, this is going to be hard... if he is an A Class bowler, this is going to be harder. Many guys at this age have tried to change their actions on their own and have messed it up completely.

From what you tell us, it appears that this guy has too much rotation for a front on bowler, so there are other things going on too.

I really would suggest this guy gets himself a good coach qualified in biomechanics.

Still like to see a video though... if possible :)
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I'm 6' and he is a few centimetres taller than me so yes.

During playing for juniors at the age of 11-15 he wasn't the greatest bowler going around, more of a batsman, but once he got to seniors at 16 he discovered he had talent there. This area doesn't have a coach for juniors, and everyone that saw him thought he would 'grow out of it' (as most do from my experience). I pointed it out to him myself a couple of times thinking he already knew it, but I didn't make any fuss about it, I just faced him in the nets when I was playing A Grade while he was C Grade just coming into the side.

Unfortunately the video isn't possible, although I may be able to scrape up something from an odd training, but doubt he would be on there.

I will tell him to find a coach if possible, but unfortunately around pretty much all of Queensland if you have a coach at all you are lucky. Our coach is a player who just did a course for the lowest level and isn't too bright. Not easy to find a coach at all, let alone pay for it.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

Boris;386908 said:
...but unfortunately around pretty much all of Queensland if you have a coach at all you are lucky...
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I am astounded... this is so sad. I have always thought of Australia as being at the front of cricket coaching and science. I guess that explains some of the comments I have read elsewhere on this forum.

I think this is so sad because it is generally the Australians that come up with the most interesting and challenging points here. I sit here [when I can] wishing I had cricketers over here like you. Most really could not give a <fig>. I generally only see them when they have injured themselves, paying a lot more than if I saw them to prevent injury [and increasing pace and accuracy at the same time].

Anyway, less of my moans and back to the issue.

To be honest, your guy follows a pattern; height/age/action etc and I am far less concerned about his hop, skip and jump than his rotation.. this is what is going to injure him. Now is the time to get him sorted before he stops growing. I suspect a lot of his issues are with his follow through but really cannot give any definites without seeing his action.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

Australia is a very big place, and when you have 21 million people spread across an area larger than all of Europe (minus Russia) it's rather hard to get out to everyone. Therefore funding and proffesionals generally only go to areas that have had good players come out of it and the population to make it worthwhile. I just moved to a new region which is way behind the times with cricket development. Our experts here are whoever has watched the most cricket on TV and whoever has played it the longest. If we get an actual coach come to the area he almost dies due to the amount of questions thrust at him. Everyone is super keen to get somebody that actually knows what they are talking about. Plus it doesn't help when the smallest mainland state gets all the funding...

And we are now even on moaning :D

I will use this guys name, Sam, to make it easier although I have the feeling this thread doesn't have much left in it.

He pretty much does not have a follow through, just stops dead and goes a little away to his left.

He twists as if you were to stand on the spot, twist your right hand is touching your left bum cheek and then flick around so your right hand is now touching your left thigh, while leaving the bottom half of your body still. He is also very strong in the upper body and has some bulk on him, so he whips it around very fast to generate some decent pace. I'm guessing this is not a healthy action.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

This thread can go as far as you would like it to Boris, and as long as Sam is willing to try.

You have given me some good analytical information; enough to start with anyway.

OK... basically, Sam's action is like a runaway truck hitting a brick wall.

You need to get his body facing down the wicket at all times; a straight run up, a straight body as he bowls and a straight follow through, straight down the wicket.. about half way.

His release should replicate a trebuchet.

As he releases the ball, he should bend forward slightly; looking straight at the stumps. His left arm should swing straight up behind him so that his hand is towards the sky. His right arm should swing [not whip] until his hand is almost tickling his left arm pit, whilst still moving forward. There should be no zig zagging or rotation.

At the moment, the stress on his spine and the forces on his muscles and joints are going to cause chronic injury at best but more often than not, stress fractures.

It does sound like Sam has an excellent physique to be a really dangerous front on bowler. It would be a shame if he misses out on his potential. Tell you what... send him to me :D
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

I will certainly try and get him to get in contact with you, which would also bring along another member to this site, he's not really the internet type though, so don't expect him :).

I think he has some very good potential just from what I have faced of him in the nets and a social game or two, also a very good friend of mine so I will relay this information to him and see if I can learn something about effectively analysing someone else's bowling action along the way.

Will keep relaying any information back and forward.

And just out of curiousity, Liz, can you say what you charge for one-on-one coaching session that corrects these sorts of issues? I just want to get a feel of what this sort of thing would cost myself if I manage to find someone capable.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

Boris;387072 said:
...And just out of curiousity, Liz, can you say what you charge for one-on-one coaching session that corrects these sorts of issues? I just want to get a feel of what this sort of thing would cost myself if I manage to find someone capable.
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Ah! I have no idea how this would equate in Australia but the important thing to bear in mind is that I am not a coach and I work totally differently to coaches. In my perfect world, I would have a coach to work with but have yet to find one over here who would give it a go.

As a biomechanist, I use the way the body [should] work to improve pace and accuracy and avoid injury. To be able to do this, one would need an advanced knowledge of anatomy and physiology. It is essential to know which muscles are activated during particular movement; the direction of their fibres, their origin, insertions and innervations. This is how I know what guys are doing wrong without even seeing them. I can almost certainly predict their height, weight, action and malfunction.

At the same time as working to correct the mechanics, I would also work on the soft tissue to make it more effective. Tension, scar tissue, myofascial trigger points etc all prevent the muscles doing their job correctly, causing chronic issues as other muscles and movement compensate. Any residual issue within a muscle will also prevent it from correcting its action.

At the same time as above, I work on fitness and nutrition. As a certified PT and advanced gym instructor, I work to strengthen and lengthen the functional body, making sure the muscles are able and ready to contract concentrically, eccecentrically and isometrically when they are needed.

As a psychological profiler, I also use the mind to correct the body and improve mental toughness.

For all this, I charge £50 per hour, although this also includes unlimited email help and advice. I would expect only a few sessions if the client is prepared to listen and work on my advice regularly on their own.

However, all this is offered free to the members of any club I am a member of. Having said this, up until the end of last season, I volunteered at the same club for five years and was not used once.

There are great coaches out there who work with biomechanics and this may be the best place to go first. Somebody like Ian Pont would be fantastic if you have one out there. He may even know of somebody... worth asking :) .
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

Liz Ward;387105 said:
Ah! I have no idea how this would equate in Australia but the important thing to bear in mind is that I am not a coach and I work totally differently to coaches. In my perfect world, I would have a coach to work with but have yet to find one over here who would give it a go.

As a biomechanist, I use the way the body [should] work to improve pace and accuracy and avoid injury. To be able to do this, one would need an advanced knowledge of anatomy and physiology. It is essential to know which muscles are activated during particular movement; the direction of their fibres, their origin, insertions and innervations. This is how I know what guys are doing wrong without even seeing them. I can almost certainly predict their height, weight, action and malfunction.

At the same time as working to correct the mechanics, I would also work on the soft tissue to make it more effective. Tension, scar tissue, myofascial trigger points etc all prevent the muscles doing their job correctly, causing chronic issues as other muscles and movement compensate. Any residual issue within a muscle will also prevent it from correcting its action.

At the same time as above, I work on fitness and nutrition. As a certified PT and advanced gym instructor, I work to strengthen and lengthen the functional body, making sure the muscles are able and ready to contract concentrically, eccecentrically and isometrically when they are needed.

As a psychological profiler, I also use the mind to correct the body and improve mental toughness.

For all this, I charge £50 per hour, although this also includes unlimited email help and advice. I would expect only a few sessions if the client is prepared to listen and work on my advice regularly on their own.

However, all this is offered free to the members of any club I am a member of. Having said this, up until the end of last season, I volunteered at the same club for five years and was not used once.

There are great coaches out there who work with biomechanics and this may be the best place to go first. Somebody like Ian Pont would be fantastic if you have one out there. He may even know of somebody... worth asking :) .
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I feel as if I have offended you by saying you merely 'coached' :D

I knew you were highly qualified in something, but it's good to know the exacts of such thing. We are very lucky to have you on this site and I remain firm on my position that everyone on this forum should pay you for your expertise. :)

I myself started a university course on psychology, under which I was branching off into sports psychology, but after coming down with Ross River Fever, Glandular Fever and this shoulder issue all at once made me have a discussion with university heads and I won't be continuing that course until 2011, meantime it is just back to dreaming of being qualified in that area.

I'm not sure I could find someone like you in this region, closest would be Brisbane which is a three hour drive and could result in very high fees. That sort of treatment is available only to at least State level domestic players in general.

If I get my way you would be flown over here and be flooded with the amount of people wanting help :D

Thank you very much for sparing the time for this.
 
Re: Jumping off the Wrong Foot

If I can help, I will :).

Sorry to hear about your set backs but 2011 will be here before you know it. In the meantime, you need to take care of yourself and relax. If you have time, qualify; get to the highest level you can. You would make a great cricket coach and think about all the people you could help... if that doesn't work, think about all the money you could make whilst at Uni ;).
 
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