Shield Discussion Thread 20/21.

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
No surprise Redback stand in captain Jake Lehmann has been dropped from at least the first shield match after a shocker last season. Wonder he has not been dropped from the entire squad after averaging a piddling @10 from seven innings. Also missing from the first match against the WAarriors is new coach Jason Gillespie who is in hotel quarantine having returned from a coaching stint in England. The famed Redback attack will be down two with Mennie (personal) and Worrall (injury) on the sidelines.

SA squad: Travis Head (c), Wes Agar, Tom Cooper, Brad Davis, Callum Ferguson, Henry Hunt, Conor McInerney, Harry Nielsen, Lloyd Pope, Luke Robins, Chadd Sayers, Liam Scott, Cameron Valente, Jake Weatherald, Nick Winter.

Am expecting two blokes to build further on their last solid season..opener Henry Hunt and quick Wes Agar. As the only specialist spinner carrot topped leggie Lloyd Pope now gets his big chance to step up to the plate.
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
Almost all of the Blues Shield squad will fine-tune for the start of their title defense at suburban grounds across Sydney over the next two weekends after being released back to their Premier Cricket clubs. It will be the last hit out for Blues cricketers before a 15-man squad (see below) heads to Adelaide for its Oct. 22 season opener.

NSW Blues squad: Peter Nevill (c), Daniel Hughes, Nick Larkin, Kurtis Patterson, Moises Henriques, Daniel Solway, Jason Sangha, Matthew Gilkes, Sean Abbott, Trent Copeland, Mitchell Starc, Chris Tremain, Nathan Lyon, Liam Hatcher, Harry Conway, Jack Edwards, Tanveer Sangha,.

A mixture of the old Henriques, Neville and Hughes with youth, Jason Sangha,Tanveer Sangha (no relation) and Matthew Gilkes. The Blues attack will only be better with the addition and home return of Dubbo native Chris Tremain. He, the stalwart Trent Copeland and the ever improving Harry Conway will be the main spearheads with the ball over the season.
 

69er

Member
Looking forward to tomorrow
Tas V Qld. My possible selections

Tas : Alex Doolan, Jordan Silk, Charlie Wakim, Jake Doran, Ben McDermott, Tim Paine (wk), Beau Webster, Peter Siddle, Gabe Bell, Jackson Bird, Riley Meredith

Qld : Joe Burns, Bryce Street, Marnus Labuschagne, Usman Khawaja (c), Matt Renshaw, Jack Wildermuth, Jimmy Peirson (wk), Mark Steketee, Michael Neser, Mitchell Swepson, Xavier Bartlett

Qld look the better side especially if the wicket is conducive to spin but with Tasmanian bowling attack Qld will have a battle.

SA V WA
SA : Jake Weatherald, Henry Hunt, Callum Ferguson, Travis Head, Tom Cooper, Harry Nielsen, Liam Scott, Chadd Sayers, Liam Scott/Nick Winter, Wes Agar, Lloyd Pope

WA : Cameron Bancroft, Sam Whiteman, Shaun Marsh, Cameron Green, Ashton Turner/Hilton Cartwright , Josh Inglis (wk), Ashton Agar, Aaron Hardie, Joel Paris, Matt Kelly, Cameron Gannon.

WA surely would have to be massive favourites, Apart from Travis Head, the others should be bordering retirement or are unproven and generally would not be playing for any other state. but I am looking forward to Lloyd Pope and Victorian born Wes Agar to see how they go this year. No wonder SA have finished last 8 out of the last 11 seasons.
 
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baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
Tigers will love having favorite son Tim Paine on duty for the first four matches. Doolan and Silk always promise so much early but fade towards the end of the season. Webster needs to reproduce some of his amazing late season 19/20 form. Disappointed selectors have not gone more for youth.. but their coach says young blokes like Mac Wright, Lawrence Neil-Smith and Ian Carlisle are on his radar. How does Doran continue to be picked every season? On paper the Qlanders looks the stronger side with bat and ball. Pleased as punch selectors have stuck with Renshaw. See how he goes away from the new ball. Even with the baggy greens skipper calling the shots for the Tigers.. QLD to win.

Yes the Redbacks have a fragile middle order.. even with Head. But they have one of the best attacks in the comp with Sayers, Winter, Worral, Mennie and Agar and they all thrive on home grounds. Tho I do ask why is the Adelaide Oval not being used.. WAarriors have picked all rounders in their middle order. Where are their specialist bats? They also have a strong attack with the addition of Gannon. WA to win.
 
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baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
The first four Shield games are looking like a litmus test for the bowlers over new Covid ball shining protocols put in place for this summer. I expect most of our quicks specially our Test attack will be lamenting the new rules of sweat only to shine the ball. The Kookaburra swings little as it is so expect a bat fest during both the Shield and the five summer Tests... perfect for crease occupiers like Smith, Marnus, Kohli and Pujara.. not so for the poor suffering quick.


A further change to Shield rules is the introduction of an illness replacement player provision, mirroring an allowance brought in at international level earlier this year. Much like concussed players can be replaced in the XI by a "like for like" player (as Labuschagne famously was for Steve Smith when the latter was concussed during last year's Ashes), a player who test positive for COVID-19 or displays symptoms can be substituted out for a similar player. The replacement player can bat, bowl, field and keep wickets, while the player who has been subbed out cannot return to the XI.


At least the players wont have to play to empty seats as up to 1,000 spectators will be permitted to attend games at Karen Rolton Oval and Glenelg . If the ball gets hit into the crowd, fielders who subsequently touch the ball will have to sanitise their hands and have the ball cleaned by an umpire.. while umpires will no longer take the bowler's hat nor any other piece of player equipment and they will have to wipe down stumps and bails at the end of each session.

Oh how this pandemic has changed the greatest sport on the planet.
 
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baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
I reckon I write this every year. Tasmanian selectors need to further promote their home grown players. Take a gander at their squad for the first four Shield games and see how many are imports.. both batting and bowling.

Tasmania: Tim Paine (c), Tom Andrews, Gabe Bell, Jackson Bird, Alex Doolan, Jake Doran, Ben McDermott, Riley Meredith, Nathan Ellis, Sam Rainbird, Peter Siddle, Jordan Silk, Matthew Wade (to join squad ahead of Round Three), Charlie Wakim, Tim Ward, Beau Webster, Mac Wright.

Only seven of the sixteen squad members are Tasmanian products, Tim Paine, Matthew Wade, Beau Webster, Alex Doolan, Riley Meredith, Sam Rainbird and Gabe Bell. That Tassie selectors is a poor conversion rate and to be brutally honest a sad indictment on Tasmanian cricket.
 
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69er

Member
Tom Andrews was a NT boy so he has to play somewhere.

Jackson Bird moved to Tasmania on his own volition, I don't believe Tasmania actually lured him to Tasmania and he played himself into the Tasmanian side with good club performances.

Ben McDermott was never going to play for Qld and always played as a keeper one thing Qld produce well and his batting wasn't up to first class standard. By moving to Tasmania, he got the necessary support he required which he wasn't going to get in Qld.

Nathan Ellis is 26 who played his first games in any format only 2 years ago, what was he doing previously, he proved himself in Tasmania at club level firstly, selected for Hobart in the Big Bash and only made his first class debut this year. It doesn't matter where he was born, it's where you get the coaching required without the bias towards certain players like which exists in NSW, they've already selected their pets the others don't get a look in

Peter Siddle is having one last hurrah. Mistake by Tasmania cricket, but he may develop Bell and Meredith probably 2 of the most promising youth bowlers currently

Jordan Silk another one who had some claim to fame in Sydney Grade Cricket and was commented on endlessly by the NSW media, the media blinded Tasmanian selectors who if they drop him have wasted a lot of money.

Charlie Wakim is nearly 30, probably moved to Tasmania due to work playing some grade cricket got him some notice

Tim Ward wants to get some first class experience before returning to NSW in a couple of years, so I'll agree Tasmania has done the wrong thing by Tasmanian players by offering him a contract, and now Tasmanian players will give up on cricket and develop another livelihood

Macalister Wright was born in Victoria got a CA development contract he but is more a limited over player, so doubtful he'll get many FC games.

But if you look at last year U19 Tasmania had a young batsman named Mitchell Owen, who dominated the championships. He wasn't selected for the U19 world cup born in the wrong state, so what message does that send. Tasmania cricket can't fix that bias from CA.
 
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baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
Start off with Mitchell Owen. Agree. Impressed me with his all round skills in the U19 nationals.. did more than was needed for a WC spot. I said so at the time. What happened to him and scores before him certainly sends a bad signal to up and comers from the smaller states.The national selectors need a hard kick in the bum. Thankfully the Tassie selectors are not of the same opinion about Owen handing him a rookie contract.
Not sure I agree with you on Macalister Wright being a white ball specialist. He is in the Tigers Shield squad so the selectors see him as also having a red ball future. I do see McDermott being a specialist white baller for Australia.. having said that he is starting to look more composed against the red ball.
I admire someone like Nathan Ellis.. did not sit on his backside and wonder if.. he packed his bags and headed for Tassie for a chance to play state cricket and it has paid off. He impressed in white ball and late shield games last season. 18w @16 from his only two games. Looks to have a big future.
Bird was in the same boat as Chris Tremain, Joe Mennie and plenty before him.. they saw no way into a Blue cap. So there is a chance of Tim Ward coming home in a few years. Good news. Why was he let go.. same as Henry Hunt. These blokes excelled in Premier and Futures League (2nd X1).. shud've been handed Blues rookie contracts.
 
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69er

Member
The problem with NSW and to a lesser extent Victoria, is the selectors have already selected those that will be paid to train, the others have to hold down a job and train about 20-25 % of the time available to those that only have to do one thing play cricket, which a lot is muscle memory training in the first place, the more you do the better you become, as proven by Matthew Hayden.

I can already tell you players for NSW that have been given that opportunity, but very little return whereas there are some in NSW grade cricket that have produced even in the Future's league that won't get any opportunity.

Patterson only 7 centuries in 122 innings in Sheffield Shield. Not a good return, but he even got a Baggy Green (still could be around for 8 more years
Larkin 3 centuries in 64 innings averages under 30 (still around for 5 more years
Daniel Hughes has been contracted for nearly 10 years only 7 centuries in 89 shield innings (still around for 5 more years)
Henriques who has played 100 FC innings, hasn't bowled for years and is in the side as a batsman av 34, also given a baggy green (still 3 more years)
Peter Nevill couldn't get a game in Victoria, went to NSW and has done well batting, but he was finished when dropped from the Australian side, should be his last year surely.
Sean Abbott 54 FC games averages 34 with the ball (still could be around for 7 years) they even recently took him to England.

Young ones given contracts
Danial Sams hasn't played FC since 2018, but still gets publicity due to T20
Jason Sangha absolute rubbish, leading duck maker 2018/19 still on contract, maybe trying to make him into an all-rounder
Jack Edwards, claimed to be an all-rounder, but can't really bowl, still on contract, but is a better batsman than Sangha

So when you look at Daniel Solway, Matthew Gilkes, Liam Hatcher, Nicholas Bertus, who should be given every opportunity the NSW selectors keep selecting proven failures. And I could go further and talk about Ryan Hackney, Ryan Gibson, Param Uppal, Baxter Holt, etc etc

Now the headlines is all about Oliver Davies and his Club performances, you know him the one who choked big time in South Africa and cost Australia any chance of winning the U19 WC.

The selectors have already decided who will be given every opportunity and who won't. And then you have those that constantly say, "he'll come good, just give him time", "he'll prove you wrong", but they rarely do just look at the afore mentioned players, they never came good.

I'll stay here
 

Signman

also known as Mal
That's a real pain Richie, hopefully they get the live stream working very soon... I reckon make a separate thread mate for game posts, in case it happens again it will be easier to find the latest updates on your domestic cricket.
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
That's a real pain Richie, hopefully they get the live stream working very soon... I reckon make a separate thread mate for game posts, in case it happens again it will be easier to find the latest updates on your domestic cricket.
I agree with that Mal. I will do.
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
The problem with NSW and to a lesser extent Victoria, is the selectors have already selected those that will be paid to train, the others have to hold down a job and train about 20-25 % of the time available to those that only have to do one thing play cricket, which a lot is muscle memory training in the first place, the more you do the better you become, as proven by Matthew Hayden.

I can already tell you players for NSW that have been given that opportunity, but very little return whereas there are some in NSW grade cricket that have produced even in the Future's league that won't get any opportunity.

Patterson only 7 centuries in 122 innings in Sheffield Shield. Not a good return, but he even got a Baggy Green (still could be around for 8 more years
Larkin 3 centuries in 64 innings averages under 30 (still around for 5 more years
Daniel Hughes has been contracted for nearly 10 years only 7 centuries in 89 shield innings (still around for 5 more years)
Henriques who has played 100 FC innings, hasn't bowled for years and is in the side as a batsman av 34, also given a baggy green (still 3 more years)
Peter Nevill couldn't get a game in Victoria, went to NSW and has done well batting, but he was finished when dropped from the Australian side, should be his last year surely.
Sean Abbott 54 FC games averages 34 with the ball (still could be around for 7 years) they even recently took him to England.

Young ones given contracts
Danial Sams hasn't played FC since 2018, but still gets publicity due to T20
Jason Sangha absolute rubbish, leading duck maker 2018/19 still on contract, maybe trying to make him into an all-rounder
Jack Edwards, claimed to be an all-rounder, but can't really bowl, still on contract, but is a better batsman than Sangha

So when you look at Daniel Solway, Matthew Gilkes, Liam Hatcher, Nicholas Bertus, who should be given every opportunity the NSW selectors keep selecting proven failures. And I could go further and talk about Ryan Hackney, Ryan Gibson, Param Uppal, Baxter Holt, etc etc

Now the headlines is all about Oliver Davies and his Club performances, you know him the one who choked big time in South Africa and cost Australia any chance of winning the U19 WC.

The selectors have already decided who will be given every opportunity and who won't. And then you have those that constantly say, "he'll come good, just give him time", "he'll prove you wrong", but they rarely do just look at the afore mentioned players, they never came good.

I'll stay here
Another Blues basher Mal just like Mike. You dont know him but you do know Paddles.. well those two were bosum buddies at my last cricket forum. Reckon a mixture of resentment and bias from some posters when a bloke that wears a blue cap gets a green one. Just to set the record evenly I dont always agree with all national selections even if they happen to wear a two blues cap. I reckon a bloke has to earn a baggy green and I will always support him when he does regardless from whichever state he comes.
 

Signman

also known as Mal
Another Blues basher Mal just like Mike. You dont know him but you do know Paddles.. well those two were bosum buddies at my last cricket forum. Reckon a mixture of resentment and bias from some posters when a bloke that wears a blue cap gets a green one. Just to set the record evenly I dont always agree with all national selections even if they happen to wear a two blues cap. I reckon a bloke has to earn a baggy green and I will always support him when he does regardless from whichever state he comes.
Richie, that's a bit like me in Wellington having a debate about a sports team with an Auckland jafa... exactly mate, it doesn't matter what part of the country a player comes from, but they definitely have to earn their spot on merit.
 
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baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
I can already tell you players for NSW that have been given that opportunity, but very little return whereas there are some in NSW grade cricket that have produced even in the Future's league that won't get any opportunity.

I agree wholeheartedly with that. I wanna know why Shield selectors continue to ignore these Premier and FL results as when choosing a rookie they tend to rate underage national performances more. And what kinda cricket is that.. white ball.. not red ball. There in lies a big problem as these kids are coming into a red ball environment from mostly a white ball background with ingrained white ball skills.

There are some exceptions like the bloke you bagged unmercifully.. Oliver Davies. He scored his first PL red ball ton before that national U19 double and has excellent FL/PL results to back his making the Blues rookie list. I believe Jason Sangha was rushed into our state side before he was mentally able to cope. Still he is performing at Premier and FL level now so deserves another crack at the state X1. Patterson is a quality bat but was damned lucky to get a national contract as his state red ball conversion rate was woeful. He is now converting and is coming off a last Test ton. Probably missed a follow up Test due to injury.. so expect him to come into the reckoning for a Test batting spot this summer.

Daniel Solway, Matthew Gilkes, Liam Hatcher, Nicholas Bertus.
All these blokes have had their chances playing several Shield games. Hatcher has performed as has Solway.. Bertus with mixed results. . Gilkes looks precisely the white ball background type I spoke about. Played 5 shield games last season.. 190 @27.
Ryan Hackney, Ryan Gibson, Param Uppal, Baxter Holt, etc etc. Three of these guys.. other than Gibson will get their state contracts sooner rather than later. The big disappointment for me has been Gibson. An Academy graduate he has struggled at state level. Param has dropped his form over the past year but is still on the Blues radar.. as is mystery spinner Arjun Nair. Hackney and Bolt are current rookies.
 
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69er

Member
I agree whole-heartedly with what you write, my point being is the "contracts sooner rather than later" is that by the time sooner gets here players like Solway and Bertus will fall into the "to old to consider and let's build for the future". How about players like Josh Clarke, Justin Avendano who have been amongst the leading run scorers for a few years now. Players like Larkin, Hughes, Henriques and Nevill are not performing for many years now especially away from Sydney grounds yet still get the contracts. Name an innings of note from these particular players away from home in the last 3 years, there won't be many.

I'm only discussing this from a NSW perspective but the same occurs here in Victoria, not as badly as NSW afterall we've been wining the shield consistently for the last 6 years so why fix what isn't broken
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
Larkin, Hughes,
These two I am fine with for the trime being. Hughes specially. A touch stiff not to have been considered for national honors imo. Again for a bloke whose job is to remove the ball's shine his career average of @40 is more than acceptable for a baggy green. He has had several solid shields in a row, last year specially .. 665 @44 made him the best performed opener in the comp. But as he is pushing 32 age may now be against him. Larkin has been up and down. Has a prolific FL/PL record (plenty of double100s) and forms a good partnership with Hughes. I am all for Clarke and Avendano getting a crack at a baggy blue as I have been saying that for two seasons now. I have also been saying it is time for Neville to hand over the gloves to the next gen. I think the selectors will want to keep Bolt in the rookies for another, perhaps two years. So we are stuck with Nifty till then. His captaincy is t the likely reason he has been retained as it certainly aint his batting. As much as I want Henriques to retire as he must be the most frustrating cricketer to coach, he has performed at shield level for the past two seasons. Go out on top Moie and put us all out of our misery
 
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