Shield Game Day Thread.

69er

Member
CA wont drop Hazlewood. Dream on friend. Pattinson is ahead of Neser on the pecking order. As Neser offers something substantial with the bat on top of his bowling he may slot in ahead of Patto as an all rounder. If any of the current three needs to go it is the eternally inconsistent Mitchell Starc. Mr tail mopperupper. Call me Baggers.
Glad someone else sees Starc as a poor performer, which is rare all the arguments quoted about his record 57 matches 244 wickets and SR 48 is hard to argue against. But I'll listen to Warne who during the Indian test series said both Starc and Hazlewood should be dropped, including a slight allusion of it won't happen because they're from NSW. I think Warne knows a bit more about cricket, than you and me combined, he is a paid commentator.

Currently Pattinson is showing up Cummins in the IPL, Cummins is poor, has nothing, 7 matches 26 overs for Cummins 2/222 av 111 Econ 8.5, it's laughable, all the way to the bank for him.

And you are 100% right 4-5 wickets per match is acceptable, under 4 is unacceptable Hazlewood is 3.75 (195 wickets 52 tests). You're words, not mine. By your own admission Hazlewood's overall performance has be unacceptable. But you're right CA won't drop him because they didn't drop him after South Africa, should have but didn't, didn't drop him after India, should have but didn't, we'll just have to wait 3-5 years to see if test cricket becomes watchable again, it's dying in the ass currently.

Test cricket has become a bias selection joke, players that perform worse than many in the past yet are continually selected, Cheats automatically reinstated, should have been banned for life. And why did the cheats use sandpaper? To help Hazlewood and Starc to get wickets by means of cheating, and if they weren't caught out Hazlewood and Starc would have rejoiced in their accomplishment, it's not like they would call the batsmen back.... they're all cheats IMO. And we all know it had been happening for a while, SA called Warner out prior to Sandpapergate, and the great swing bowler Jimmy Anderson also questioned Hazlewood and Starc's ability to prematurely swing, which all disappeared when Warner was out of the side. Pattinson and Neser don't need nor have ever received any assistance, they're naturally talented... They're not cheats. Some say cheats never prosper, they do in Australian test cricket.

Baggers you call yourself a big cricket follower, you must have been gutted by these cheats, doctoring the ball for the swing bowlers Hazlewood and Starc. And these cheats are still playing earning big money, that's not what the baggy green represents. A true cricket follower remembers the greats of the past and how no cheating was ever contemplated. Imagine Ian Chappell, Dennis Lillee, Jeff Thompson, they would have killed at any suggestion of disrepute of their performances. A TRUE cricket follower, would not support this team until Warner Smith, Hazlewood and Starc are no longer in the team. A true cricket follower would be looking for any option to remove these cheats from the game, such as bringing Pattinson and possibly Neser into the side and give them time to adjust, maybe 10 tests.
 
Last edited:

69er

Member
I just watched the highlights of Neser's innings, he is a very accomplished batmen, flick of wrists, beautiful drive, immaculate late cut off Meredith, sweep shots off Webster, pull shot & hook shots, these are shots Smith has trouble playing. I always thought he just slapped the ball around, I was wrong.

Sean Marsh at 37 smacking a run a ball century, was the final nail in SA's bowling attack for me. At least Sayers did pick up a couple of wickets in WA 2nd innings. I think Liam Scott's bowling average has blown out to 200, but a nice effort with the bat, just no batting partners. Baggers, isn't Nick Winter like 28, but has only played 20 FC games? His FC bowling average is now currently over 30 I believe, and I don't know of any state opening bowler with that high an average. Wes Agar is only 23 and had a good start prior to this game, so I'd persevere with him.
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
I just watched the highlights of Neser's innings, he is a very accomplished batmen, flick of wrists, beautiful drive, immaculate late cut off Meredith, sweep shots off Webster, pull shot & hook shots, these are shots Smith has trouble playing. I always thought he just slapped the ball around, I was wrong.

Sean Marsh at 37 smacking a run a ball century, was the final nail in SA's bowling attack for me. At least Sayers did pick up a couple of wickets in WA 2nd innings. I think Liam Scott's bowling average has blown out to 200, but a nice effort with the bat, just no batting partners. Baggers, isn't Nick Winter like 28, but has only played 20 FC games? His FC bowling average is now currently over 30 I believe, and I don't know of any state opening bowler with that high an average. Wes Agar is only 23 and had a good start prior to this game, so I'd persevere with him.
Nick Winter honed his swing skills in the Old Dart and was a late comer to Aussie domestic. He is frankly playing his cricket in the wrong country. Is a carbon copy Pom swingman. I can see his career going downhill now that CA has removed the English Dukes ball from his armory.. and is preparing this season's state decks for the batsmen and spinners. Heaven help us it they reciprocate these for the Test pitches. Nothing turns away loyal Test fans more than batting fests. They can see those in white ball.
Neser is not a Test class batsman.. never will be. But he has the tools to do a job as a bowling all rounder.. Doubt tho whether CA w'd ever consider him at #6.
SOS Marsh is a real enigma. Bags of natural talent like his little brother but like him lacks steely concentration at vital times. Reason both have never cemented their place at national level. Must be a Marsh trait as the old man was much the same.
 

69er

Member
I wouldn't take into consideration any all-rounder at 6, batsman for me. All-rounder for me bats at 8, unless their name is Jacques Kallis. That is where either Neser (who is a frontline bowler, opens for Qld so is capable and it's not like Qld are easy beats) or Agar who I personally don't think is up to the calibre of Lyon, but you may disagree but it's not worth arguing about. For myself Starc isn't bad with the bat but I think Cummins is over-rated as a batsman.

Nice article on cricket.com about the achievement of Neser and Agar. You know it's good when you're mentioned alongside Garfield Sobers and the last to do it was Mitch Johnson in 2010

If Winter played in England then he should have stayed there, when was the last time an English bowler did well in Australia, and I wouldn't be changing the ball to suit one player. He should go back to England.

Marsh is just one of those players that never lived up to expectations, difference is he got plenty of opportunity. His brother Mitch is the reason I believe an all-rounder should never bat at 6, useless.
 
Last edited:

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
Then unless he bowls down the house in these four games and cracks another 200+ runs he wont be considered ahead of the incumbents or Pattinson. Take note in his first real crack at a red ball international back in Feb against the Pom 2nd X1 he went wicketless for108 runs and scored a sum total of 8 runs.

I can not see anything other that a big win by the Bulls. I hope I am wrong but to rely on Tassies fragile middle order to get these 193 runs to even make the Qlanders bat again let alone save the match looks a bridge too far.
Likewise with the fragile Redbacks batting. Still if Weatherald and Hunt again get em off to a good start they can save this game..
 
Last edited:

69er

Member
Just did some research. I believe that currently Neser and Pattinson are the only positive bowling all rounders in Australia where their batting average is higher then their bowling average

Neser Batting 25.7 Bowling 25.3 (+0.4)
James Pattinson Batting 22.97 bowling 22.2 (+0.8)
Agar Batting 28.7 Bowling 40 (- 11.3)
Starc Batting 22.3 Bowling 25.5 (-3.2)
Cummins Batting 20.95 Bowling 22.8 (-1.8)
NCN Batting 18.75 Bowling 28.68 (-10.07) played a lot of ODI's as an äll-rounder

That's why Cameron Green was such an exciting prospect Batting 43.84 and Bowling 21.5 (+22.3) Which is exactly the same as the Jacques Kallis differential, even Ian Botham was only a +5 differential. I really hope Cameron Green starts bowling again soon, he's an automatic selection both with bat or ball. Imagine if Australia had a Jacques Kallis, Labuchagne and Steve Smith.

That positive differential is a difficult thing to get the last I can recall would be James Hopes Batting 31.8 Bowling 26.7 (+5.1 same as Ian Botham) never played a test for Australia.

Batting all rounder in M Marsh barely gets into the positive (batting 32.1 Bowling 30.6 +1.5) and his batting is not good enough to be selected for Australia yet has played 32 tests, and Hopes never played, just makes no sense to me, not that Hopes didn't play its how does M Marsh play 32?. Shane Watson was a massive +12.6 at FC level, and he did receive a lot of criticism throughout his career.

Stoinis bat 33.2 ball 40.7 (-7.5)
Maxwell bat 39.8 ball 41.22 (-1.4)

That + result is difficult and if Pattinson and Neser are the only true all-rounders, then Australia shouldn't be selecting any all-rounder in my opinion.
 
Last edited:

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
Some good analysis there. I always pushed for Hopes to get the nod over Watto but CA never listened. Watson 35 bat/33 ball. Hardly earth shattering. Yet he was an automatic selection for many years when he never deserved to be.
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
WA are not declaring. Marsh going for glory as his team are already 363 runs ahead.

Looks like a small session of T20 to get lead to 400+. No Marsh has declared.. only added 19 more runs.
 
Last edited:

69er

Member
Tasmania have thrown the anchor out back, how very South African of them. Though I'm not happy with Mark Steketee's line too many shouldering arms through to keeper, that's poor bowling IMO, that's why I like Bird and Siddle make the batsmen play every delivery.

Watson wasn't earth shattering at test level but a hell of a lot better than M Marsh bat 25 ball 39 (-14) You'd be better off with Josh Hazlewood as an all-rounder batting at 6 (bat 12 ball 26 (-14) same as Marsh. Marsh had no business being selected, IMO

WA declare, and the point of those 2 overs was?
 
Last edited:

69er

Member
Hunt goes for a duck, I should have put money on that. Averages 28 scored 57 in first innings, guaranteed 0. Averages do tell a story.

I'm wondering if Neser is exhausted, the 2 overs he bowled made Tasmania play every delivery, but then taken off.
 

69er

Member
I'm not a big fan of Swepson, lacks turn and penetration, I know he's only 27 but haven't seen much for years.

Starting to thinks neither game will give a result. That's why we should never reduce test cricket to 4 days.
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
No mention of Jack Wildermuth. 29.2bat/ 29.4 ball. CA obviously regards him as having all round potential by picking him in the same Aussie A side that Neser was in. Unlike Neser, Wilders took wickets and scored runs.
 

69er

Member
Forgot about Jack as an all-rounder, but wouldn't make the side for me with either bat or ball. I guess I not a fan of a bitza players. Simon Milenko, is another Qld all-rounder, still wouldn't play an allrounder, have to make the side as either a batsman or bowler and the all-round aspect is a bonus.

I think replacing Callum Ferguson with Davis is a failure for me, I was surprised by the non-inclusion of Ferguson
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
have to make the side as either a batsman or bowler
Nail on head. Definition of a genuine all rounder.. Kallis, Sobers, Dev, Khan.. probably Botham possibly Nugget Miller. These blokes make a side as either a bowler or a batsman. They are as scarce as snow in hell. Lucky to have one per generation.

not a fan of a bitza players.
CA is. Reason they kept picking Watson reason they kept Mitch Marsh at #6 all that time. Reason they gave Wildermuth a shot at the Pommie Seconds.

Ferguson has not been the same player since that cruel blow of being dropped after a solitary Test. He had waited years for a baggy green and deserved his promotion. How that must have played with his mind.
 
Last edited:

baggygreen man

also known as Richie or Baggers
Staff member
Bulls scrape home over the Tigers despite an impressive 112 ball stonewalling feat by the talented Nathan Ellis to deny them.
Good efforts by Siddle and Webster too.

WA steals the win in the other match as the Redbacks looked as tho they may hold on for a draw.
 
Last edited:

69er

Member
Both Qld and WA did deserve to get the outright, they were all over their oppositions. Though I had doubts about the wickets, a result did occur in 4 days making all work for the win, without assistance of doctored pitches and weather conditions, so the wickets were good.

The best players were obviously Labuchagne, Weatherald, Marsh, Inglis, Neser and Agar

Xavier Bartlett with 7/96 would be the No 1 pace bowler of the round, with Cameron Gannon 5/103 on his heals, and I would never have picked them at the start of the round. Qld must be strong in the bowling to not be able to keep Gannon the leading wicket-taker last year, but he is 32, that must be the reason.

Others I was impressed with
Ben McDermott his 74 in the first innings was all class
Beau Webster 82 runs and 2/78

Travis Head was consistent scoring 85 runs across both innings, but also consistent in playing poor shots against nothing deliveries to get out. But that is world cricket today
LLoyd Pope was brilliant just got no assistance from the other bowlers and suffered in the end.

Cameron Bancroft had a typical Bancroft game, good starts but could not convert either innings, but 116 runs across both innings is good
Cameron Green was solid

Bryce Street was very impressive as was Renshaw till he was run out
Jimmy Pierson still pushing his name forward as Australian keeper with a solid game

Biggest disappointment was Mark Steketee last year took 27 @ 24, didn't see much from him this round.
Other disappointments was Wes Agar as last year was No 3 wicket taker with 33 @ 24. Nick Winter, but not as surprised as last year could only manage 18 wickets @ 35, and now his last 7 matches over the last 18 months he has 18 wickets @ 43, that is not FC standard.
 
Last edited:
Top