Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

[Boris]

Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

USA to host New Zealand v Sri Lanka internationals | USA Cricket News | Cricinfo.com

This came out in February and I wondered then if it was going to go ahead.

I have seen nothing of it since, and considering that it is May, I was wondering if there is any news as to whether this is still going to be played?

Whether it is or not, do you think it's a good idea to be using T20s as a marketing commodity like this?

 

[hattrick]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

As far as I know yes, is the answer and it will be played in Orlando, Florida.
I think the main reason for this is the massive Asian community in the States which seem to travel to the Caribbean to see cricket for the World T20.

With regards to marketing the game with T20's.. it is the shortest format and is exciting which will draw people to the game. I think we are going to see more of this happening in different locations as the ICC want to make the game global.

 

[Boris]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

I don't mind the game being exported to America, I'm just wondering about the format, the old argument about what form of the game is the premier one.

I like to put it in perspective with how it is in Australia (not sure about other countries). I love baseball and watch every game I possibly can, but baseball is never going to be big in Australia, insofar as cricket is never going to be big in America, especially considering that their sports are very country specific and their patriotism is through the roof. I think it's a waste of time trying to introduce it to the country, there are better things that money could be spent on.

However if they can play games (from Tests to T20s) there on behalf of Pakistan, as was another idea while Pakistan has security issues. If they can manage to draw big enough crowds at decent enough grounds (cricket is surprisingly big in America) then it could very well cover costs and more, especially if one of the many sports channels take it up and broadcast it on one of the lesser channels.

As for America taking it up, not going to happen. Leave them with their sports and they leave us with ours. How would we like the Yankees and Phillies came and played at a converted MCG (probably not possible anyway) during the middle of the summer? How many people would turn out to see it?

 

[Bariaga]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

....as the ICC want to make the game global.

Really? I thought they wanted to keep the game a secret. At least for a long time in the United States it looked that way. If you want to make the game global first thing you should do is give the game away to free/cable TV networks, even if that costs you $50,000 or whatever you get from closed circuit/pay-per-view networks. I've been very angry at ICC for being so short sighted for so long with every world cup being on pay-per-view channels with an expensive subscription model that ensures no one except the most hardcore fans will ever hear about it. This is a great game, at least the short twenty20 version of it, with so much potential in the US, and I'm disappointed that neither ICC nor any group of wealthy people made any significant investment in it (ICC investment has to come first of course).

I'm a huge soccer (football) fan but I can understand why it's taking so long for the game to catch on here. It's a very different game in nature than most American sports. Cricket on the other hand has a lot of similarities with baseball. Americans are also in love with statistics in sports and cricket provides more meaningful stats than just about any sport on earth. Unlike soccer, cricket also has mini-breaks between overs that you can squeeze in a 30 second ad which American TV networks would love.

Americans also love any aspect of a sport that makes the players look more 'manly'. With every baseball players wearing gloves, cricketers would look much tougher catching those hard balls bare-handed. There are also more running and a lot more diving catches and exciting plays in cricket than in baseball. They would also like the fact that there's more scoring and more ways to score in cricket than in baseball and the fact that you can hit the ball in any direction (in baseball if you hit a ball behind the keeper it's a foul ball and doesn't count and there are dozens of those per game which are basically waste of time).

I could go on and on but I have no doubt the average American sports fans would fall in love with this game if they were actually able to find a cricket game on TV. Maybe the first few games they wouldn't bother but many of them would become curious and learn about it. We have hundreds of TV channel showing just about any sport on earth, even bowling, poker, fishing etc but cricket is nowhere to be found, thanks to the people in charge of international cricket.

If FIFA can make $425 mil from the US every 8 years, with a decade of small investments the ICC can make at least 1/4th of that. That's a huge difference from the measly $50,000 they now make per tournament from the US pay-per-view companies. Come on ICC, have a vision and get serious about spreading the game here!

 

[Bariaga]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Anecdotal evidence: on ESPN website's Streak4Cash game (a daily contest of several sports that hundreds of thousands participate in) they had 5-6 IPL props for people to pick and win this year. While following those IPL games on illegal internet feeds (yes, this contest is known to make people watch just about anything, even French 2nd division soccer), a lot of Americans had questions and some of us did our part to educate them. Many came away intrigued and impressed and are now calling for more cricket props there. If following it on a small, horrible internet feed where you can barely read the stats can still make people interested in this sport imagine how much better it would do if it was on real TV sometimes. In this day and age (of internet and dozens of sports channels) there's no excuse for keeping the game hidden anymore.

 

[Boris]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

I'm presuming you are in America, Bariaga?

Interesting points you bring up there. I was always of the notion that cricket would never take off in America, in much the same way baseball will never take off in Australia/England/India/etc. Baseball is the national pastime, and when it comes to patriotism I've seen numerous Americans bagging cricket every change they get, just like we bag baseball every chance we get. I didn't think it was a question about which game is subjectively better or more exciting, but which one was participated in first. I've also seen numerous TV programmes that have insulted cricket in general... speed tests between baseball pitchers and cricketers trying to pitch (using scrawny Pakistani expatriates, who are spinners), 'scientific studies' that prove baseball is harder to play (by putting a part time American national off spinner against a major league fast pitcher and seeing which one is harder to hit). In general nothing that would ever let cricketers 'win', always showing that baseballers are always 'better'.

Interesting that you think the opposite, and are in the country, wasn't expecting that. So you think that given the air time cricket would, in fact, flourish?

 

[Bariaga]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Yes I'm from New York.

I've also seen numerous TV programmes that have insulted cricket in general... speed tests between baseball pitchers and cricketers trying to pitch (using scrawny Pakistani expatriates, who are spinners), 'scientific studies' that prove baseball is harder to play (by putting a part time American national off spinner against a major league fast pitcher and seeing which one is harder to hit). In general nothing that would ever let cricketers 'win', always showing that baseballers are always 'better'.

That's my point. Those bashers bash because of ignorance and they know their readers/viewers are just as ignorant about this sport as they are and are likely to believe their misleading informations as facts. And they keep doing it because they know they'll get away with those as long as cricket itself never tries to correct them or educate the public (i.e. by being on TV). Have some cricket games on TV where the commentators talk about the different types of bowling and more and more people would start seeing why some of the balls have low speed and the beauty of all types of spin bowling. This game is actually beautiful enough to speak for itself; people just need to be exposed to it.

By the way, I'm not saying if cricket had a lot of airtime it would all of a sudden take over or replace baseball, neither does it need to. As more and more people get curious and learn about the game it, more will start playing it too and things will snowball from there. If nothing else it will curve out a pretty big and respectable niche in America the way soccer has.

 

[OhMyGodTheChips]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Boris - You have a closed mindset

Bariaga - Do you play in the College League that they have going in NY?

 

[Boris]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Boris - You have a closed mindset

I'm not criticising anybody, I just find it strange. I've played cricket and baseball for most of my life (although inevitably cricket a lot more), and whenever I say I play baseball to the cricketers around me they guffaw and say how stupid the game is. A general consensus amongst Australian's is that cricket is far superior to baseball and baseball is hardly worth watching. I believed this would translate to America in the same way, especially after seeing some of the American media presentations.

If the ABL started to broadcast their games on Australian TV networks and advertise to go down to the games, how popular would that be? Australia has enough trouble sparking interest in games they are actually world leaders in - for example field hockey, it has never taken off despite the success. I can't see baseball becoming big in Australia, and hence I thought it wouldn't happen in America, but they way Bariaga is talking, it may just work presenting cricket into America given its nature.

Yes I'm from New York.



That's my point. Those bashers bash because of ignorance and they know their readers/viewers are just as ignorant about this sport as they are and are likely to believe their misleading informations as facts. And they keep doing it because they know they'll get away with those as long as cricket itself never tries to correct them or educate the public (i.e. by being on TV). Have some cricket games on TV where the commentators talk about the different types of bowling and more and more people would start seeing why some of the balls have low speed and the beauty of all types of spin bowling. This game is actually beautiful enough to speak for itself; people just need to be exposed to it.

By the way, I'm not saying if cricket had a lot of airtime it would all of a sudden take over or replace baseball, neither does it need to. As more and more people get curious and learn about the game it, more will start playing it too and things will snowball from there. If nothing else it will curve out a pretty big and respectable niche in America the way soccer has.

I highly suspect that the ICC is working on some plan like this, but I guess in terms of money than cricket definitely has enough. The BCCI is the largest and richest team sport management in the world, the IPL is worth US$2 billion, and cricket itself is the second largest sport in the world. I'm supposing the need for expansion to America isn't really that necessary currently given the risks.

 

[OhMyGodTheChips]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

I don't disagree with how the American media treats it, but they don't ignore sports that can have huge earning potentials which cricket is slowly progressing to.

If Boston Red Soxs and New York Yankees had a one off trial game or even series at MCG/Dome, I guarantee there would be a crowd of 50k+ for the opening.

 

[Boris]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

I don't disagree with how the American media treats it, but they don't ignore sports that can have huge earning potentials which cricket is slowly progressing to.

If Boston Red Soxs and New York Yankees had a one off trial game or even series at MCG/Dome, I guarantee there would be a crowd of 50k+ for the opening.

Would be interesting to see if baseball is actually possible at the MCG, they have played it there before but a long, long time ago before the stadium itself was erected. Don't think it is possible given the size/shape difference between a cricket ground to a baseball park. Strange to think also that all of America's leading sports are played on specialised fields/courts, random thought there.

I couldn't see it pulling quite so much of a crowd, I would say 30k, but then again I don't know what it's thought of in Melbourne. How many people actually know of the Red Sox and the Yankees and the series they play in?

A trial game was played in China to boost popularity over there, so it is possible for them to travel a bit.

But anyway... long way off topic.

 

[Bariaga]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Bariaga - Do you play in the College League that they have going in NY?

Nah .. I'm not that old but my cricketing days are long behind me ..well except some friendly games in the local park with tennis balls.

 

[Bariaga]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

I'm not criticising anybody, I just find it strange. I've played cricket and baseball for most of my life (although inevitably cricket a lot more), and whenever I say I play baseball to the cricketers around me they guffaw and say how stupid the game is. A general consensus amongst Australian's is that cricket is far superior to baseball and baseball is hardly worth watching. I believed this would translate to America in the same way, especially after seeing some of the American media presentations.

If the ABL started to broadcast their games on Australian TV networks and advertise to go down to the games, how popular would that be? Australia has enough trouble sparking interest in games they are actually world leaders in - for example field hockey, it has never taken off despite the success. I can't see baseball becoming big in Australia, and hence I thought it wouldn't happen in America, but they way Bariaga is talking, it may just work presenting cricket into America given its nature.

Just because Australia may or may not accept baseball doesn't mean America wouldn't accept cricket. This is a country of 300 mil with many different tastes, cultures and ethnicity. If something so different in nature like soccer can find moderate success here cricket can do just as well if not better, given the similarities it has with some American sports. And, I wouldn't judge the whole country's attitude toward something based on the opinions of few media personalities and loud minorities in the crowd. Vast majority of the Americans are just indifferent and ignorant about this sport, many of whom I believe would become at least casual fans of this sport if they learn all the rules and strategies through exposer on TV. In a country this big all you need is a small percentage of hardcore fans (we already have over a million of them here) and a little bigger percentage of casual fans to make it successful. MLS receives $16 mil a year from 3 TV networks despite averaging only 240,000 viewers per game. Cricket needs to draw only half of that to receive nearly the same amount of money given the 3-4 times more advert slots available in cricket broadcasts compared to soccer.

I highly suspect that the ICC is working on some plan like this, but I guess in terms of money than cricket definitely has enough. The BCCI is the largest and richest team sport management in the world, the IPL is worth US$2 billion, and cricket itself is the second largest sport in the world. I'm supposing the need for expansion to America isn't really that necessary currently given the risks.

Having "enough" money is never a good excuse to stop getting more. If there's a huge untapped market with good economy and earning potential it should at least be given a try. Look at FIFA; soccer is by far the most popular sport in the world and its governing body is still not done expanding its footprint.

It would only be a huge risk if cricket was trying to be one of the most popular sports here and overtake baseball, American football, and basketball. I'm not advocating that. I just want it to become a successful niche sport here which in my opinion wouldn't take all that much risk. And, whatever little risk there would be it would be shared by some of the up-and-coming sports networks who are always looking for new and different contents that are available for cheap or free. Just make a deal with one of those networks where you either give away the rights to the world twenty20, exhibitions etc or share ad revenues. The long-term reward would far outweigh that risk. And, it's not only about monetary reward; being able to make this great game a part of many more lives and making many hardcore fans living here happy would count for something as well.

 

[Boris]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Just because Australia may or may not accept baseball doesn't mean America wouldn't accept cricket. This is a country of 300 mil with many different tastes, cultures and ethnicity. If something so different in nature like soccer can find moderate success here cricket can do just as well if not better, given the similarities it has with some American sports. And, I wouldn't judge the whole country's attitude toward something based on the opinions of few media personalities and loud minorities in the crowd. Vast majority of the Americans are just indifferent and ignorant about this sport, many of whom I believe would become at least casual fans of this sport if they learn all the rules and strategies through exposer on TV. In a country this big all you need is a small percentage of hardcore fans (we already have over a million of them here) and a little bigger percentage of casual fans to make it successful. MLS receives $16 mil a year from 3 TV networks despite averaging only 240,000 viewers per game. Cricket needs to draw only half of that to receive nearly the same amount of money given the 3-4 times more advert slots available in cricket broadcasts compared to soccer.

Having "enough" money is never a good excuse to stop getting more. If there's a huge untapped market with good economy and earning potential it should at least be given a try. Look at FIFA; soccer is by far the most popular sport in the world and its governing body is still not done expanding its footprint.

It would only be a huge risk if cricket was trying to be one of the most popular sports here and overtake baseball, American football, and basketball. I'm not advocating that. I just want it to become a successful niche sport here which in my opinion wouldn't take all that much risk. And, whatever little risk there would be it would be shared by some of the up-and-coming sports networks who are always looking for new and different contents that are available for cheap or free. Just make a deal with one of those networks where you either give away the rights to the world twenty20, exhibitions etc or share ad revenues. The long-term reward would far outweigh that risk. And, it's not only about monetary reward; being able to make this great game a part of many more lives and making many hardcore fans living here happy would count for something as well.

Agree completely, plus I seem to learn something new everyday about cultures of different countries on this site. I always thought America was more patriotic about 'their' sports than even Australia.

We are talking about a governing body that spends most of its time trying to wrestle control from other boards, they seem like the UN, they do a good job but have no real control at all.

This game seems the first step at least. Are there many grounds available for actual cricket use? As the four biggest sports are Gridiron, Basketball, Baseball and Ice Hockey, with Soccer following after that, I would think there would be a lack of oval shaped grounds.

 

[Boris]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Series reshaped after floodlights deemed unfit | USA Cricket News | Cricinfo.com

It is going ahead. Good choice to not play on the Thursday night, if America's first taste of real cricket was bad lighting and a washout, I don't think it would have been too good.

 

[Bariaga]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Are there many grounds available for actual cricket use? As the four biggest sports are Gridiron, Basketball, Baseball and Ice Hockey, with Soccer following after that, I would think there would be a lack of oval shaped grounds.

No, just a few, although some of the older, abandoned stadiums could be renovated to specification if some investors/municipalities come forward. And that's where the problem lies. No investor will take that risk until there's a plan to start and sustain a decent pro league which will not happen until ICC itself makes some investment for a while (with TV first, and then youth development on a small scale few years later). That's the first spark in a long chain reaction that propelled soccer in the US to where it is now and the same will happen with cricket I have no doubt. We just need few visionaries.

 

[Boris]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

No, just a few, although some of the older, abandoned stadiums could be renovated to specification if some investors/municipalities come forward. And that's where the problem lies. No investor will take that risk until there's a plan to start and sustain a decent pro league which will not happen until ICC itself makes some investment for a while (with TV first, and then youth development on a small scale few years later). That's the first spark in a long chain reaction that propelled soccer in the US to where it is now and the same will happen with cricket I have no doubt. We just need few visionaries.

Read just before that there is only one official ICC ground in North America, that being the one in Florida, and that doesn't have good enough lighting for D/N matches, but as you said they would come with expansion of the sport.

It now comes down to what it turns out to be on Saturday.

Do you get full TV coverage where you are?

 

[OhMyGodTheChips]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

They had several A team exhibition matches there years ago with Australia, India and New Zealand from memory, the wicket was lively to say the least and the totals were all sub-200.

 

[Boris]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

They had several A team exhibition matches there years ago with Australia, India and New Zealand from memory, the wicket was lively to say the least and the totals were all sub-200.

I'll go looking for them.

 

[Bariaga]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

It now comes down to what it turns out to be on Saturday.

Do you get full TV coverage where you are?

Not sure. I can't seem to find the TV information anywhere.