someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Gutted.
Spin In The World Cup
- Thread starter shrek
- Start date
Gutted.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Other than that they're a bunch of Wus's
Spiderlounge
Member
Apparently Tahir's not out of it and will play through the pain, but will need a couple of weeks full rest at some point after. I'm slightly annoyed Rashid's still not in the squad given the way leggies have gone in general, but on the plus side the talk of him getting into the team sounds more and more plausible every time it comes up. Meanwhile Cremer didn't have too great a morning today did he...
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Cremer's another transitional Leggie, he's not the finished article, so he has good and bad days.
Shahbaz
New Member
It looks like Tahir is going to be getting his rest right now. I'm not sure how long this will last; I believe that it was suggested that it will take around ten days, but I'm not sure when it would be counted as having begun. South Africa's spin attack didn't look like much of an 'attack' against India, and played a fairly conservative role, while with Tahir they had all looked quite dangerous, perhaps just because there was an atmosphere of tension caused by the fact that the batsmen could get out just about every delivery. I recall that during the England game, Tahir was getting an LBW shout just about every second ball.
I had watched Piyush Chawla in his other match, and he bowled two or three no-balls in two successive overs. Grimmett would have been livid. I agree with SBCD's evaluation of Cremer. Ray Price is great, of course, and seems to have a nice mixture of a light-hearted and serious attitude to bowling.
I had watched Piyush Chawla in his other match, and he bowled two or three no-balls in two successive overs. Grimmett would have been livid. I agree with SBCD's evaluation of Cremer. Ray Price is great, of course, and seems to have a nice mixture of a light-hearted and serious attitude to bowling.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Ray price, apparently is a full on Christian, but when you see him bowling some spells he's full on aggressive, looks like if you had a go back at him he'd be punching your lights out at the drop of a hat. You've gotta love Ray and his determination and passion, looks like it goes way beyond any Christian teachings I've been taught!
Shahbaz
New Member
He loves his enemy, and, as such, he wishes to ensure that the batsman enjoys watching his bowling as much as possible. After all, watching the ball carefully, as a good batsman will do, can be somewhat dull, but Price will have none of that. Pace bowlers, as Philpott pointed out, are sadists, but spinners are far more aesthetically pleasing; if one were giving somebody a painting, it would surely be a higher expression of agape to give them a better one.
Edit: Incidentally, from watching the recent Canada games, it seems that Balaji Rao also fits the 'transitional leg spinner' epithet. He's not bad, but could do with some improvement. He still got wickets, but was also quite capable of being hit, and usually he seems to not have caused many problems through movement in the air. Collins Obuya seems to have declined quite notably since 2003, and his lack of variations is somewhat notable, especially when bowling to a left-hander, a situation in which Tahir had begun using his googlies more frequently; to be honest, in an ODI, I think that the approach of using variations frequently probably makes a fair bit of sense, as one doesn't have long spells in which to execute long-term traps and plans. Also, the Zimbabwean Maruma seems to have the googly syndrome, perhaps one of you lot should advise him on that; more Zimbabwean leg-spinners can hardly be a bad thing.
Edit: Incidentally, from watching the recent Canada games, it seems that Balaji Rao also fits the 'transitional leg spinner' epithet. He's not bad, but could do with some improvement. He still got wickets, but was also quite capable of being hit, and usually he seems to not have caused many problems through movement in the air. Collins Obuya seems to have declined quite notably since 2003, and his lack of variations is somewhat notable, especially when bowling to a left-hander, a situation in which Tahir had begun using his googlies more frequently; to be honest, in an ODI, I think that the approach of using variations frequently probably makes a fair bit of sense, as one doesn't have long spells in which to execute long-term traps and plans. Also, the Zimbabwean Maruma seems to have the googly syndrome, perhaps one of you lot should advise him on that; more Zimbabwean leg-spinners can hardly be a bad thing.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
http://www.iol.co.za/sport/twists-and-turns-of-tahir-s-love-affair-1.1040808 Stuff about Imran Tahir
With the exception of Swann, England seem to always prefer spinners who bowl darts in a one-day game rather than being genuinely attacking. Blackwell, Yardy, Dawson, Batty, the list goes on...
Agree with everything you said except the part about balaji rao not creating problems in the air- Watch today's match closely and you will find that he gets appreciable drift and dip. (Drift is easy to see, but dip is very difficult to notice from our elevated camera views.)
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/current/story/506345.html
By no means is he anywhere close to being the next shane warne, but he's quite good.(as long as he has control
)
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Agree with everything you said except the part about balaji rao not creating problems in the air- Watch today's match closely and you will find that he gets appreciable drift and dip. (Drift is easy to see, but dip is very difficult to notice from our elevated camera views.)
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/current/story/506345.html
By no means is he anywhere close to being the next shane warne, but he's quite good.(as long as he has control
Limited to the highlight packages and the camera angle, it's diificult to appreciate the nuances of Rao's bowling, we either get to see one or two good balls - defined by them almost taking wickets, not neccesarily aspects of guile or the bad ones that Shane Watson smacked out of the park. So, reading that article it sounds like it's a shame that we'll never see these blokes bowl ever again.
Bishoo has looked pretty good thus far. As with seemingly all professional leggies at the moment, he scrambles the seam a lot. I really don't understand how players of this calibre can fail to have control of the most basic of techniques, but they all do. However, you watch the ball of the pitch and it still spins. I think this gives an idea of how forgiving hard professionally prepared wickets are for leg spin, the one proper pitch I've played on span lots for me despite being very hard and at a time when I wasn't getting much turn elsewhere. I just wish I got to play on wickets like that every game because I'd turn the ball way more consistently!!
Anyway, aside from that, his line and length has been pretty solid. His stock ball is around 48mph, he flights is nicely, and looks to have a nice and repeatable bowling action. I'm not sure hes moving it much in the air, maybe a little. But its doing plenty off the pitch. At the end of his spell he had 2 slips in place!! And hes picked up the wickets of Trott and Morgan, 2 key wickets against England.
Hes still got 2 overs left, although may not get them if England keep giving away wickets.
Anyway, aside from that, his line and length has been pretty solid. His stock ball is around 48mph, he flights is nicely, and looks to have a nice and repeatable bowling action. I'm not sure hes moving it much in the air, maybe a little. But its doing plenty off the pitch. At the end of his spell he had 2 slips in place!! And hes picked up the wickets of Trott and Morgan, 2 key wickets against England.
Hes still got 2 overs left, although may not get them if England keep giving away wickets.
Shahbaz
New Member
It looks like it's another leggie to watch here. Bishoo was really impressive; he gave a couple of looser deliveries which Wright hit for four, but he certainly ended up winning that battle. Otherwise, his bowling was really quite solid; he started off somewhat flat, but got sharp turn and eventually began incorporating more flight as well, which seems to have undone Trott and Morgan. He doesn't seem to look for the LBW as much as Tahir, and as such probably bowls a line further towards off-stump. He also doesn't use his variations as much, nor necessarily as effectively, although I do remember a time where he had put some pressure on a batsman before giving him a brilliantly flighted skidding delivery outside off stump which was only kept from the stumps by an inside edge off an attempted cut. I'm impressed with what I've seen so far from the bloke. It was also a pretty great idea to bowl him along with Roach, who was bowling quite accurately with some swing. The problem for the West Indies seems to have been that as soon as those two came off, their other bowlers didn't really seem much of a threat. Benn was pretty much tame, really, and seems a lot less effective than Robin Peterson, for example.
Clearly, the solution is more leg spin. In fact, the solution is always more leg spin.
Clearly, the solution is more leg spin. In fact, the solution is always more leg spin.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
They've just pondered Rashid as a replacement for Shazad who's got a knackered leg on the SKY highlights and all agreed.... Nah. Not so much that they didn't think it wouldn't be such a good idea, but they didn't believe the selectors would go for it.
Look at this video - Harbhajan has apparently got a new ball. We all know it is just a standard backspinner/offspinning flipper. But the amount of back spin he's getting is interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtpXo9h-4-U
macca
Active Member
Right on brother, too much legspin is never enough.
Shahbaz
New Member
Bishoo seems to have had some trouble adjusting his line for left-handers, although I do like his ability to bowl it flatter to them, and it seems a good way to deal with the problem. He got hit a couple of times due to bowling down the leg side, as well as a few leg-glances. I don't think that it has much to do with India being good players of spin, because when Bishoo's bowled well they haven't really looked very impressive at all. He's still fairly new, and his deliveries are already quite impressive, so he should be able to get his line right to left-handers with some practice. I mean, he's in West Indies, it's not like he doesn't have any lefties to bowl to. To Kohli, though, he's kept a very consistent line around middle and leg, and the batsman always has to look out for those. For some reason, he wasn't given a slip, though.
Cremer can be very dangerous when he bowls it on a line around middle and leg, although he also seems to enjoy the MacGill-esque 'bowl it on off stump and turn it as far as possible' deliveries. He does bowl big-turning deliveries quite often, so his more top-spinning leggies on a middle and leg line are a notable LBW threat. The only problem is that his line isn't really consistent, and he seems to bowl it outside or on off too much, whereas he would be better off bowling it nearer leg stump and threatening the wickets. He does look like he has potential, though, so we'll have to see how that goes.
Price, of course, is brilliant. He bowled some great deliveries today, with only a few stray ones. Really, he's probably looked the most impressive of the left-arm spinners in this World Cup, although Robin Peterson's also put on a good showing. It seems like Zimbabwe may be re-entering the test circuit soon, and it'd be good to see their barrage of spinners in the longer format of the game. All that they have to work on is their batting, although it does seem like a lot of their problems there come from problems with the limited overs format of the game, as they have problems settling in while keeping their run rate up to the necessarily level. I think that the reason why Ireland may have done better is purely because they're a better one-day side, in other words because they're good at batting in limited overs conditions, whereas Zimbabwe seems like tests may suit them more once they get used to them again.
Benn, on the other hand, has not been impressive at all during the last few games.
Edit: As I said, though, Bishoo seems to have gotten the hang of bowling to right handers very well. That stumping off Dhoni was brilliant. He also seems quite capable of bowling well to left-handers when he gets his line right, due to his flat bowling to them, but he just drifts down leg side too often. It's interesting that while Tahir seems to vary the direction of spin a lot, Bishoo, the other good leg-spinner to emerge from this World Cup, focuses a lot more on variations of pace and flight, and seems very good at it. Although his line wasn't always right to the left-handers, he was able to switch the flight to left and right handers more or less at will. Tahir perhaps has an easier time against left-handers so far due to a combination of experience and a frequent googly, but Bishoo seems like his usual top-spinning leggie will work fine against them if he just practices the line a bit.
Cremer can be very dangerous when he bowls it on a line around middle and leg, although he also seems to enjoy the MacGill-esque 'bowl it on off stump and turn it as far as possible' deliveries. He does bowl big-turning deliveries quite often, so his more top-spinning leggies on a middle and leg line are a notable LBW threat. The only problem is that his line isn't really consistent, and he seems to bowl it outside or on off too much, whereas he would be better off bowling it nearer leg stump and threatening the wickets. He does look like he has potential, though, so we'll have to see how that goes.
Price, of course, is brilliant. He bowled some great deliveries today, with only a few stray ones. Really, he's probably looked the most impressive of the left-arm spinners in this World Cup, although Robin Peterson's also put on a good showing. It seems like Zimbabwe may be re-entering the test circuit soon, and it'd be good to see their barrage of spinners in the longer format of the game. All that they have to work on is their batting, although it does seem like a lot of their problems there come from problems with the limited overs format of the game, as they have problems settling in while keeping their run rate up to the necessarily level. I think that the reason why Ireland may have done better is purely because they're a better one-day side, in other words because they're good at batting in limited overs conditions, whereas Zimbabwe seems like tests may suit them more once they get used to them again.
Benn, on the other hand, has not been impressive at all during the last few games.
Edit: As I said, though, Bishoo seems to have gotten the hang of bowling to right handers very well. That stumping off Dhoni was brilliant. He also seems quite capable of bowling well to left-handers when he gets his line right, due to his flat bowling to them, but he just drifts down leg side too often. It's interesting that while Tahir seems to vary the direction of spin a lot, Bishoo, the other good leg-spinner to emerge from this World Cup, focuses a lot more on variations of pace and flight, and seems very good at it. Although his line wasn't always right to the left-handers, he was able to switch the flight to left and right handers more or less at will. Tahir perhaps has an easier time against left-handers so far due to a combination of experience and a frequent googly, but Bishoo seems like his usual top-spinning leggie will work fine against them if he just practices the line a bit.