The Lounge 2

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Richie said:
You talking of the Jindalee over the horizon radar Terry. Great at detecting the enemy well beyond our shores but what do we send to engage them when this govt has cancelled a large contingent of F35s with no mention of any replacement from, say Europe. I say cut our expenditure on nuke subs by half and instead spend that on air power.
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That's the one Craig, the Jindalee radar system. 👍🇦🇺

Agreed about expenditure on the Nuclear subs.
Not with flip-flop Trump in power.

Why would we cancel those F35s? I hadn't heard. Truly.
Some mates reckon the Chinese ones are better. !?
How much? 😆
Do they give Flybuys? 🚀🛩 free software and updates?

I am buoyed by the many innovations we Aussies are creating in so many fields.👏
 
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Grier said:
Some mates reckon the Chinese ones are better.
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My son says never buy Chinese as they follow very low production standards. Go to YT and you will find dozens of instances of this. Have you heard of Chinas 'ghost cities', abandoned practically before they were lived in as most of the buildings were badly cracked and even parts like balconies collapsed bringing sections of the building with it..

Harbin Bridge Collapse (2009):
An 8-lane suspension bridge, newly constructed at a cost of $300 million, suddenly collapsed, killing three people.

G-4 Superhighway & Fun City Flooding (2009):
Catastrophic flooding near Beijing, causing 77 deaths, was linked to inadequate or clogged drainage systems in the superhighway and development areas.

Lotus Riverside apartment collapse in Shanghai (2009) due to a poor foundation,

Changsha building collapse (2022):
A self-built house collapsed, trapping 53 people and leaving 39 missing, due to factors including reckless heightening and architectural vulnerabilities.

Yellow River Railway Bridge collapse (2025):
A partially built railway bridge collapsed into the Yellow River, resulting in at least six deaths and exposing issues with safety standards and regulations.
 
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Richie said:
My son says never buy Chinese as they follow very low production standards. Go to YT and you will find dozens of instances of this. Have you heard of Chinas 'ghost cities', abandoned practically before they were lived in as most of the buildings were badly cracked and even parts like balconies collapsed bringing sections of the building with it..

Harbin Bridge Collapse (2009):
An 8-lane suspension bridge, newly constructed at a cost of $300 million, suddenly collapsed, killing three people.

G-4 Superhighway & Fun City Flooding (2009):
Catastrophic flooding near Beijing, causing 77 deaths, was linked to inadequate or clogged drainage systems in the superhighway and development areas.

Lotus Riverside apartment collapse in Shanghai (2009) due to a poor foundation,

Changsha building collapse (2022):
A self-built house collapsed, trapping 53 people and leaving 39 missing, due to factors including reckless heightening and architectural vulnerabilities.

Yellow River Railway Bridge collapse (2025):
A partially built railway bridge collapsed into the Yellow River, resulting in at least six deaths and exposing issues with safety standards and regulations.
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Chinese workmanship is often shonky, but not always. They manufacture most of the phones now with a tariff included in the price to US citizens.
Their mega building company Evergrand is currently going belly up with a debt of about $500 billion in think.
Yet with nuclear subs, the Chinese are manufacturing them ten times quicker than the US. Probably lower quality like the Russian subs. Life is cheap for them, especially in their dangerous Coal mines.
 
I'm helping out an American lady "friend" who is sadly very ill.
She's on dialysis 3 times a week and had pneumonia last hospital visit. She has numerous chronic ailments and flare ups. I'm sad and fear for her health. Too many old friends are falling off the perch.
I'm kept busy helping her as best I can, and my old mate with mostly his IT stuff.

He turns 77 tomorrow and we're planning a country drive to see the magnificent Spring flowers, especially after a very wet winter here. There'll be blooming flowers everywhere!
 
Grier said:
I'm helping out an American lady "friend" who is sadly very ill.
She's on dialysis 3 times a week and had pneumonia last hospital visit. She has numerous chronic ailments and flare ups. I'm sad and fear for her health. Too many old friends are falling off the perch.
I'm kept busy helping her as best I can, and my old mate with mostly his IT stuff.

He turns 77 tomorrow and we're planning a country drive to see the magnificent Spring flowers, especially after a very wet winter here. There'll be blooming flowers everywhere!
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You are a kind soul Terry.
 
Richie said:
Yeh read about this. Also that after your record rains Perths main drinking reservoir is far from full. Another tick for global warming.
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Half full only despite the rains. The catchment soil got so dried out with recent scorching summers they're acting like sponges soaking up the run offs. Thank goodness we have 2 water desalination plants and a third one on the way. Also ground water. Our dams only supply less than 20% of our city's water needs. A symptom of Global warming no doubt.🥵
South Africa has a similar climate and is in dire straits water wise not having desalination plants like WA has.
 
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looker-on said:
So true.
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Thanks Thomas and Craig,

Raised by altruistic parents as a good Irish Catholic and Latin speaking head Alter boy I find it hard to turn a blind eye to those in need. Fifth of five children my dear old Mother was encouraging me towards the priesthood.
I was too wild for that, as wild as my mother herself was.
She even tried to give me away to her barren sister and husband who ran a big piggery in Eire. Wexford Ireland.
I like pork but not pigs.

I used to collect for and give to Charities but have sadly stopped that not wanting my personal data getting passed around, as it does nowadays. Still, I'd like to sponser a child through the Smith Family foundation for educational needs
When shopping I can make anonymous donations to their Charity drives.

In my city we often see homeless beggars with cardboard signs pleading for spare coins, usually at traffic lights. Looking at their foot wear is a good judge of need. Being scruffy, dirty wearing worn thongs in winter I give notes.
Even if their life is full of booze or drugs, more the reason to help them I believe. It's a poorly treated health issue.
 
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"What is Freedom and is complete Freedom possible?"

That's a topic for discussion at a local group close to me.

I half reminder a similar topic some time back.
Are we just bricks in a wall?

Thoughts?
 
Richie said:
How about this.
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I read about this very interesting idea from ABC's news web page Craig. So simple and out of the box thinking.
During the day solar panels feed electricity into the system pulling up the weight. In the dark the weight is let to desend powering turbines to create electricity to feed into a power grid or batteries. Brilliant!
 
Grier said:
"What is Freedom and is complete Freedom possible?"

That's a topic for discussion at a local group close to me.

I half reminder a similar topic some time back.
Are we just bricks in a wall?

Thoughts?
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Interesting topic again, Terry. Who actually comes up with them?

When discussing such meaty concepts, it's always a good idea to explore what people understand by it and then to try and see if any kind of common ground can be established.
What springs to mind immediately is Immanuel Kant's idea of it who says “There is only one innate right, freedom (independence from being constrained by another’s choice), insofar as it can coexist with the freedom of every other in accordance with a universal law”. I like that very much although I know how hard it is to be generally accepted and, thus, implemented in society. Still, I believe there's no better guiding principle for people if they want to live together peacefully.
I was perplexed as to how certain people interpreted freedom when the wall came down. For them, freedom was to do whatever they felt like doing regardless of the needs of other people. It was a simplistic and selfish understanding of what they thought was the essence of a free society. Even the highway code was too much of a restriction to them. That answers the second part of the question: No, complete freedom has never been possible nor will be.
PS: Is Kant actually a household name in AUS? Who remembers that your late friend's profile pic looked like the spitting image of Kant. I've never found out who that was and why he'd chosen it. Have you?
 
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The moderator/organiser is a German Psychologist lady who even taught some Maths and rides a big motor bike.
A group I once helped to run asked the group for topics and we'd vote for the best for next time. Sadly that group got overun by conspiracy theorists. Almost Flat Earthers! 🥱

I don't think many Aussies are familiar with Kant. I am a little bit but he's such a hard read my Greek maths mate who studied Mathematics and Philosophy at our top Uni in Perth told me. He admitted only reading a short simplified version.
I do like the concept of Freedom by Kant you explained very well.
It's broad and encompasses much.
My own thoughts also draw me to a lack of total Freedom from moral societal laws and cultural mores. The secretarian moral mores, the rule of law to maintain a civil society, ... spiritual and religious constraints .... exercising expected empathy and compassion from innate humanism.
Not always of course but certainly a work in progress in Australia nowadays.

As a dreadful news topic lately a self righteous so called "Sovereign Citizen" refused to abide by our laws and shot dead 2 policemen trying to serve him a with a child molesting summons. The Sovereign killer changed his name to "Freeman".
From his so called free actions many have suffered gravely and still hundreds of armed Police seek him at great cost. 💶.
However, this twerp has transgressed Kant's red line by causing "great" harm to others.
A simple, broad and encompassing principle by Kant.

In Janis Joplin's song "Me and Bobby McGee" I loved the line: "Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose."
 
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Also,

In light of my own Christian background and the first book of the old testament Genesis, I wrote this poem about 3 decades ago pertaining to the moral strictures of Freedom.

KNOWLEDGE

The Spring of my youth stretched
To the furthest bay,
Exploring the mysteries of that liquid
And endless day.

I feared not the trials of virtue
Nor chance.
But only wished to laugh
And sing and dance.

Cart-wheeling, rolling, wide eyed
And wild,
I picked myself up slowly
And smiled.

And as I saw the fruit of
That tempting tree,
I knew thereafter that
I am never free.

_____________________​
 
Terry, you are describing a very common strategy pursued by those who want to turn our open society upside down by occupying and redefining key concepts. They mustn't succeed but that's a tall order.

I like your poem that shows both how long you've been thinking about that central issue and also the learning curve by "picking yourself up slowly". Being able to smile at the ultimate constraints may indicate that the final awareness of "not being free" can only be relative since it's inevitably linked to necessity and, thus, not to be regretted.
 
We have had a scare with my Bonnies health this past week. Firstly she had a nasty scent gland infection, prob her worst as an adult, then due to her pain at having to have three needles in same spot plus the added trauma/anxiety, the poor girl is now battling anemia.😥
 
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