Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

[chrisbell]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

If no-ones seen this yet on youtube and if you're not subscribed to their channel on youtube check this out. YouTube - How to bowl a leg spin I reckon it's pretty good, but I'd like to hear the opinions of the more technically astute amongst us as to whether all of the advice is sound. It's long 15 minutes, and it goes into some detail with regards angles of the arm using graphics and the like. There's a good bit in slow mo showing the ball leaving the fingers that's been shot really well. What do you reckon?

Pluses - video showing release and arm action very good.
Emphasis of front foot and angle of arm very well presented.
Explanation of the way that the third finger imparts the spin is useful.

Minuses - For native English speakers, the host is at times a little difficult to follow and repeats himself a bit.
No variation balls discussed.
Guy demonstrating doesn't use his leading arm much and this is not mentioned. He also has next to no follow-through.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Yeah I thought his bowling action was a little weak on the points you've made. I'm guessing too that because of the surface he's bowling on it's going to turn quite a bit as well? But generally it's pretty good. I've suggested that they knock up a video of the explosion through the crease technicalities and demonstrate the standing start and 1 step delivery drills. If they come up with it, I might then request that they film the release from the hand in slow mo as that bit is pretty good quality and if they were to film it closer they may be able to illustrate properly the main deliveries as between them they can definitely bowl the basic deliveries.

 

[chrisbell]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Yeah I thought his bowling action was a little weak on the points you've made. I'm guessing too that because of the surface he's bowling on it's going to turn quite a bit as well? But generally it's pretty good. I've suggested that they knock up a video of the explosion through the crease technicalities and demonstrate the standing start and 1 step delivery drills. If they come up with it, I might then request that they film the release from the hand in slow mo as that bit is pretty good quality and if they were to film it closer they may be able to illustrate properly the main deliveries as between them they can definitely bowl the basic deliveries.

It's certainly a good starting point.

 

[chippyben]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Well, as neither of you are going to take Dave's advice and ask me... I shall have to butt in .

This could be one of two things:

You are both just sleeping wrong and cutting off sensation to the extremity; or

Possible posterior capsular contracture... as Dave suggested.

I could tell you straight away if I could see you. It really would be a good idea to get the latter eliminated. It will not go away with rest, although it will feel better during rest.

If caught early, it can be treated with stretches and exercises. If not, it could cause a SLAP [superior labrum anterior posterior] tear. In this case, surgery is the only option .

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. Butt in anytime Liz, all advice is welcome.
So what is it that in laymen's terms, and what should I do to avoid it?
I used to bowl for hours on end in the backyard as a kid, pace bowling though, not leg spin. Could this has contributed to the problem?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

As I recall the key bit of advice is to stop bowling for 2 or 3 weeks and see if it improves. It started to happen to me when I learned the Wrong Un. I spent hours and hours, day after day, 2 or 3 sessions each day during a holiday period just bowling wrong uns sometimes for 2 hours or more virtually non-stop as I have a big bag of 36 balls - chuck em up one end throw em back ad infinitum endlessly. Then I i got up one morning - pins and needles and couldn't lift my arms up readily above my head, as the day went on the shoulder warmed up and it worked. No pain particularly just floppy arms - felt like the shoulder muscle system was just all worn out.

Gave it a rest after talking to Liz and looking at the long term 'Prognosis'? Saw that the muscle gets so stretched and torn it then never fixes 100% - kind of like an elastic band that has been stretched too much and has no memory anymore. After a few weeks it was fine and since then I've taken things easier and made note of whether I feel like I'm over doing it. I think it happened because of the massive increase in practice and the use of the shoulder in a different way. The answer in the longer term is warm ups and warm downs and rotational press ups YouTube - Rotational Push-ups

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. Butt in anytime Liz, all advice is welcome.
So what is it that in laymen's terms, and what should I do to avoid it?
I used to bowl for hours on end in the backyard as a kid, pace bowling though, not leg spin. Could this has contributed to the problem?

It's really frustrating stabbing in the dark, especially as I could tell you what the problem is if I could get you in my hands .

TBH chippyben, I am probably more concerned about you than Jim.

You have some options:

1. Go see somebody .
2. Rest until the pins and needles goes.

If 2:

i. If you return to bowling and the pins and needles do not come back, it's just a little bit of overdoing it.
ii. If you return to bowling and the pins and needles come back:

a. It could be an issue with hypertrophy at the posterior of the shoulder [as mentioned in the previous post] due to biomechanical malfunction in the shoulder area whilst bowling.
b. It could be carpal tunnel syndrome due to biomechanical malfunction at the business end of the action.. the grip .

Give rest a go and let us know how you get on.... would really appreciate you posting back on the fitness forum when you've given rest a chance, as I rarely get on this thread for the sake of my sanity .

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

It's really frustrating stabbing in the dark, especially as I could tell you what the problem is if I could get you in my hands .

TBH chippyben, I am probably more concerned about you than Jim.

You have some options:

1. Go see somebody .
2. Rest until the pins and needles goes.

If 2:

i. If you return to bowling and the pins and needles do not come back, it's just a little bit of overdoing it.
ii. If you return to bowling and the pins and needles come back:

a. It could be an issue with hypertrophy at the posterior of the shoulder [as mentioned in the previous post] due to biomechanical malfunction in the shoulder area whilst bowling.
b. It could be carpal tunnel syndrome due to biomechanical malfunction at the business end of the action.. the grip.

Give rest a go and let us know how you get on.... would really appreciate you posting back on the fitness forum when you've given rest a chance, as I rarely get on this thread for the sake of my sanity .

Liz,

As we are talking injuries anyway, can you please help me diagnose mine . I dived to stop a ball (not unusual) but landed on my left shoulder last year. There was no visible swelling but for nearly a month, I felt that the shoulder was weaker than it was before. When I took it to the doctor, he ask me to do a few exercises which I could, and he just sent me away saying it was perfectly fine. I still felt that something was amiss because when a ball is hit over my left shoulder, there is a slight lag between the time I react and my shoulder does.

Now unfortunately, this season I was running for my captain and I banged into a fielder at midwicket from the left side when it began paining. I had to dive in to make it to crease and again I landed on that shoulder - From that time when I'm bowling, sometimes it just sort of pops(no sound) leaving me in intense pain. (This is my left shoulder, im a right arm bowler). So, I've taken to bowling with a less pronounced leading arm to compensate and slowly it seems to have gotten better.
It just comes back t o haunt me suddenly - as I mentioned in two cases
1. If I am looking to make sudden motions over shoulder height on the left hand side. and
2. As it goes over my head in the course of my bowling action.

Otherwise, i'm able to use full range of motions and once again I was able to do all the exercises the doctor asked me to. Please let me know what you think about it all.

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Doctors. God love them. They save our lives and are total heros. Unfortunately, very few specialise in sports injury .

I guess the doctor was right... the arm was moving, so it was working, so, in his opinion, it was perfectly fine. Or, at least, there were no broken bones .

However, your soft tissue took a bit of a beating. It sounds like quite a bit of trauma in the rotator cuff which has not been resolved. I doubt there is much point in suggesting a visit to a sport and remedial massage therapist, although if you could find one, it would give you great relief.

Bottom line, your shoulder is not able to cope with the force you are giving it and you really do need to work on this area and using your back more.

Try some of the exercises here: How to protect your shoulder from cricket injury | Cricket coaching, fitness and tips

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Doctors. God love them. They save our lives and are total heros. Unfortunately, very few specialise in sports injury .

I guess the doctor was right... the arm was moving, so it was working, so, in his opinion, it was perfectly fine. Or, at least, there were no broken bones .

However, your soft tissue took a bit of a beating. It sounds like quite a bit of trauma in the rotator cuff which has not been resolved. I doubt there is much point in suggesting a visit to a sport and remedial massage therapist, although if you could find one, it would give you great relief.

Bottom line, your shoulder is not able to cope with the force you are giving it and you really do need to work on this area and using your back more.

Try some of the exercises here: How to protect your shoulder from cricket injury | Cricket coaching, fitness and tips

And our college medical system is setup such that I will be given an appointment with a sports specialist only if the first doctor recommends it. Oh well!
Thanks a lot for the diagnosis- by soft tissue, do you mean the ligament or the tendon?

Luckily it is my non-dominant shoulder after all. I will start working on these areas soon- Quite a big "To do" list this off-season.

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Soft tissue is everything that is not bone... all the squishy bits .

In your case, we are talking ligaments, tendons, muscle and fascia.

In some respects, the fact that it is your non-dominant side is a problem... although good for sport... because you are not mobilising, or have not mobilised it enough.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

This isn't much but this is all I have at the moment is one ball bowled during practice session this evening. I am the one in brown shirt bowling at 0:43 in this video.

Let me know if you have any suggestions.

YouTube - Purdue Cricket Practice


From the video, I appear to be bowling at 44-45mph. For a stock delivery - it's not as shabby as I thought it'd be.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I really like your action shrek, for what that's worth, your'e built for it. A lot like my son bowls.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I really like your action shrek, for what that's worth, your'e built for it. A lot like my son bowls.

Thanks a lot macca. We might have another session today before the big game tomorrow- I will try and get some video if we play today.
Two things I've been making conscious efforts on - leading arm and follow through and the video confirmed my suspicions. I noticed that, my leading arm sort of fell away a little too quickly. and even though I kick my back leg up, it doesn't finish across my body.
"Miles to go before I sleep" I guess.

 

[Spiderlounge]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I seem to have hit a rich vein of form with my bowling now the season's finished... Thanks for the standing start drill video Dave, I'll definitely be practising that a lot over the winter. As it is I seem to have utterly dispensed with my run-up in favour of a gentle wander in to what ends up being a very energetic delivery stride. I need to remember to bend my torso over to get the arm high but once I do that the leg swinging round looks after itself without me having to think about it.

My accuracy is noticeably improving as a result and I'm feeling much more solid all round. I think I lost a bit of spin but this evening I realised that I'd stopped using my fingers quite as much so that's reasonably easy to rectify. In terms of variations I've been intentionally keeping it very simple. I bowl about 60% stock leg breaks, 20% topspun leg breaks, 15% topspinners and 5% zooters. The topspun leg break is still my go-to ball, but all four are reasonably OK. I'm not thinking about bowling flippers or wrong'uns any time soon but I am trying to prepare for them by working on the flexibility of my arm and shoulder and strengthening my fingers. My physio's been doing a great job on me, recovering a lot of flexibility I hadn't even realised I'd lost. I wonder what point I'd be at now if I hadn't had the car crash in March?

Meanwhile I've compiled a list of wrist-spin variations and corresponding descriptions, so I'd be grateful if you old sages could point out any inaccuracies or ones I've missed off.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

id say 99% of leg spinners bowl an overspun leg break as their stock ball. the perpendicular delivery is both hard to bowl consistently (even if you think youve got it, often its still overspun) and also unreliable off the pitch. it requires a perfect seam to grip, and small angles can tilt the seam forward or back. if the seam doesnt touch then it has a tendancy to go straight, and it doesnt have the benefit of dip to confuse the batsman on length.

 

[chippyben]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

The hard spun leg break is very hard to pull off consistenetly but boy is it the most satisfying when you do. The big drift and then the sharp turn is something other types of bowling can't match. Ive improved it a lot lately, the breakthrough for me was realising is comes out of the hand differently to the topspinning leg break, more out of the front of the hand.
We had our first game yesterday and we had a real day out. We rolled them for 66. I bowled pace and got 4/29 including the two openers , then we went in and made 8/330 and then declared, sending them in for the three overs to end the day and my opening bowling partner got 2 more wickets so we look set for an outright win next week. This is the same side that put 350 on us last year so it was a great result. A great day after so many bad days last season.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

You play a completely different format to use over here - don't you play across 2 days or something? 99% of the time in club cricket here the best it's going to ever get is a 50 overs each across one day. Is it right that your games are played across two days?

 

[chippyben]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

You play a completely different format to use over here - don't you play across 2 days or something? 99% of the time in club cricket here the best it's going to ever get is a 50 overs each across one day. Is it right that your games are played across two days?

Hey Dave, we play each team in a two day match and then a one day match of 35overs. The two dayers are played over two saturdays with a maximum of 75overs per innings with two innings each. Outright wins are extremely rare and generally its only first innings points most sides go for. Its good in some senses and bad in others. The chance of washouts is doubled, sometimes you field all one saturday and then its washed out on the second saturday and you dont get a bat. That happened to us twice last year. It is good traditional cricket though where you can build an innings when batting and get long spells bowling. A few games last year I bowled 18 overs.I doubt Id get that bowling leg spin though!!!! There are other vagaries such as the grass being really long one week then mowed the next depending on the whims of the local council.
There is the test match feel though when you are sent in to survive 5-10 overs at the end of the day with fading light.All in all its good cricket.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

it was supposed to be the last game of the season today. but for the 3rd week running the match got cancelled!! presumably because the football season has started and half the players are otherwise engaged on sundays. although most of our players dont play football, so its probably the opposition sides that have struggled to get a team together as they have all been much smaller village teams.

oh well, season is now over, just indoor cricket to possibly look forward to. and plenty of time to work on my fitness and my bowling over the winter. the next thing though is that the clubs nets get taken down for winter, and then i have nowhere local to practice.

the cricket centre down the road (which is very convenient, as there arent many of them around the country, and i just happen to have one 5 mins away) is great, but at £24/hour its a touch steep to be using regularly! the only way you can really use it is if you get 3 or 4 guys down there using one lane, but then you end up getting way less bowling time anyway and its counter productive. plus its always about the batsmen, so if you bowl a few wayward deliveries they get the hump because youre not serving them up easy drives. my consistency has been good enough lately for that not to be a problem though. which is why im quite looking forward to indoor league!

 

[chippyben]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

it was supposed to be the last game of the season today. but for the 3rd week running the match got cancelled!! presumably because the football season has started and half the players are otherwise engaged on sundays. although most of our players dont play football, so its probably the opposition sides that have struggled to get a team together as they have all been much smaller village teams.

oh well, season is now over, just indoor cricket to possibly look forward to. and plenty of time to work on my fitness and my bowling over the winter. the next thing though is that the clubs nets get taken down for winter, and then i have nowhere local to practice.

the cricket centre down the road (which is very convenient, as there arent many of them around the country, and i just happen to have one 5 mins away) is great, but at £24/hour its a touch steep to be using regularly! the only way you can really use it is if you get 3 or 4 guys down there using one lane, but then you end up getting way less bowling time anyway and its counter productive. plus its always about the batsmen, so if you bowl a few wayward deliveries they get the hump because youre not serving them up easy drives. my consistency has been good enough lately for that not to be a problem though. which is why im quite looking forward to indoor league!

I had the same problem of nets coming down once before. I got a net golfers use to hit into so they can practice in the backyard. Its just set up between two collaspable poles with four guy ropes to stand it up and just put that at the end of the pitch. No problems for bowling alone and you can even draw targets on it or a batsman etc.