Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

They held a spin summit a couple of months ago and had all the top spinners and coaches meet. I sent a submission via Ashley Mallett calling for the Grimmett books to be on the table.

The thing divided in to two camps with the older guys like jenner and mallett saying it was a grass roots problem and younger blokes like macgill saying they need to work on the top level guys.

Today as a result they have revamped the 2nd tier interstate 3 day comp by banning the new ball which is meant to favour spinners and reverse swingers too i suppose. And wickets taken by spinners gain extra points. It will see more spinners playing at the top level.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

One thing Bosquanet, Grimmett and Warne all did was spin balls on table tops. That was how Bosquanet developed the wrongun, by spinning rubber balls on table tops indoors
Grimmett worked up his 5 "flippers" this way. Grimmett gave demonstrations on table tops of his spinning tricks, one where he would use the backspinning flipper to make the ball return straight back to him after landing. He even appeared at the London Palladium in 1930 with his conjuring act of ballspinning. Ray Robinson wrote that any sphere bigger than a pill and smaller than a melon was said to be fair game for Grimmett to spin. He also said he could turn a lemon past a cruet and bowl the celery middle stump. Robinson also tells the story of how Grimmett showed the King how to bowl a googly by using an orange on the lawns of Balmoral castle. Now apparently the king was a fast learner and got the orange to turn straight away.
Warne would entertain people at the academy and local pub by spinning tennis balls etc on a pooltable.
There is a long list of spinners , Sonny Ramadin and Bruce Dooland spring to mind who always carried a ball everywhere, not always a 6 stitcher, and kept spinning and spinning it every chance they got.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Nice one Greasy - good to have on board, hope you don't mind me shortening your name to Greasy! I haven't read the post in full yet, but soon realised you're the same bloke that commented on my bloke this morning - cheers for the comments! I'll look at your first post now and I reckon it takes the title of longest post ever - beats Jim's War and Peace style efforts!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

The Edge Of Willow;367895 said:
It has been far to long since I've posted here.

I have made good progress. My turn is well and truly back now. My problems seemed to stem from lack of a flowing action; I would get all muddled up, with the timing of movements all out synch, causing several problems, the major ones being a total lost of the pivot and a horrible release. Those really fixed themselves when I got my "flow" back.

The slight trouble I have now is with my front time; I sometimes forget to push forward with my front arm, usually causing me to loop the ball up far too high, and I still have rather inconsistent accuracy. Otherwise, I'm going very well, I bowled my best ball ever to a left-hander yesterday at the nets, aimed outside the left hander's off-stump, it drifted even further and pitched about two feet outside the off-stump, so the batsmen let it go, it then ripped back and took off-stump. :D
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EOW the key thing that you need to do is just - shed loads of practice, it sounds like you're aware of your problems, you'll just have to focus on one or two of them at a time and work on them looking for the improvement. With the arm issue - just make a concerted effort to get out in front nice and high - have a look at the Beau Casson/David freedman video on youtube YouTube - David Freedman legspin coaching video As I recall he talks about the leadng arm.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;368131 said:
Nice one Greasy - good to have on board, hope you don't mind me shortening your name to Greasy! I haven't read the post in full yet, but soon realised you're the same bloke that commented on my bloke this morning - cheers for the comments! I'll look at your first post now and I reckon it takes the title of longest post ever - beats Jim's War and Peace style efforts!
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You know how Greasy feels though, so many questions once you get started. Your blog will keep any starter busy for a while, must be the best free source out there.
Have you checked that spinbowlingtips website advertising here? I think I know the Quadir wrongun thing they mention.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Right TGP's first post..... I reckon there's going to be a few differences of opinion here, the first one around the importance of getting it to spin.

Look at this first - http://www.gandccc.webeden.co.uk/#/season-averages/4526675035 when you click on the link have a look at the bowling stats for this season. Look at the following spinners -

Neil Samwell
Alex McLellan
Dave Thompson

Neil Samwell for instance you'll see is by far the best in most respects and he bowls Top-Spinners and small leg breaks, he'll tell you he doesn't turn the ball which to some point is true, the amount of turn he gets off the wicket is minimal. His secret is accuracy, variation in speed and length and prodigious top-spin which makes the ball dip rapidly at high speed. He holds the clubs record for the most wicket ever and the season record. Neils about 30 and has played cricket since he was 11 or so.

Alex McLellan he joined our club a couple of months before me, he plays 3 x as many games as me and is half my age almost 25-28 years old. He spins massively, with very good drift, but he bowls loads of wides and has very little control over his game. He takes what Neil calls 'Filthy' wickets e.g. wickets that come about through causing errors because of the unpredicatability of the delivery.

The other is me. I advocate the pursuit of prodigious spin combined with Grimmett-esque accuracy. But as a priority I would always suggest look for the accuracy slightly in front of the search for the optimum spin. I think someone pointed out a few days ago that people like Adil Rashid and Mendis don't turn the ball off the wicket that much.

So with regards the approach I'd advise I'd say stick with your basics for the minute, just bowl your Leg Break and a Top Spinner. The thing I found really useful was to work on my line and in the short term not worry about the length - as long as it's up there somewhere potentially under the bats nose and it's heading for the stumps with or without spin it's going to cause problems - again in our team we've got old boys that can put the ball on the spot time and time again and they bowl maiden after maiden and they hardly turn the ball. What I found really usefull was to cut a piece of hardboard 1.5 metres long x 250mm wide and placed this in line with my bowling line and then practiced bowling onto that. Providing I got the ball somewhere on the piece of board I was happy.

I reckon that if you're bowling only 2 wides out of 18 balls it sounds as though your accuracy with regards you line should come together quite quickly. So that sounds really promising.

The fact that you're aware that you are looking at a couple of years before you may be happy with your bowling is a good thing too as this shows that you're being realistic. With regards your concerns about playing in a cricket team I think you're view of club cricket maybe slightly over the top. If you were to join a team that played Sunday friendlies you'd find yourself surrounded by old duffers, young kids 13,14 and 15 years old, Dads that join in and newbies like yourself. Yeah it can be embarassing - I used to be mortified that I was being hit for 12-20 runs an over in every over, but it is one of the ways to learn and the sooner you get in there, the sooner you'll be forced to learn quicker and get some understanding of nuances of the game.

That's my say on some of the points you've made.

I'm not saying ignore the search for maximum spin, I do every day, but it's not at the forefront of what I do. I'm hoping that one day I'll suss out what I need to do to bowl the Biggun and it'll be the icing on the cake.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;368134 said:
You know how Greasy feels though, so many questions once you get started. Your blog will keep any starter busy for a while, must be the best free source out there.
Have you checked that spinbowlingtips website advertising here? I think I know the Quadir wrongun thing they mention.
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I think the adverts change all the time and that's one that I've not noticed. How's your boy going? We've got dates for the indoor league now, but they're coinciding with searching for secondary schools as my older son is 11 and moves up next Sept. Hopefully they'll get a few games?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;368124 said:
They held a spin summit a couple of months ago and had all the top spinners and coaches meet. I sent a submission via Ashley Mallett calling for the Grimmett books to be on the table.

The thing divided in to two camps with the older guys like jenner and mallett saying it was a grass roots problem and younger blokes like macgill saying they need to work on the top level guys.

Today as a result they have revamped the 2nd tier interstate 3 day comp by banning the new ball which is meant to favour spinners and reverse swingers too i suppose. And wickets taken by spinners gain extra points. It will see more spinners playing at the top level.
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I reckon the old blokes are right, they've got to think long term. Jenner obviously does and his actions back this up. He even comes over here helping us find the new young spinners once a year with his training camps. I don't understand how wickets taken by spinners would mean extra points, maybe that's something to do with the competitions in OZ, but however it works it sounds as though it should encourage teams to play more spinners?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Well thanks for the advice fellah's.

I think I agree with Dave in that I want to emphasise accuracy over spin (at least at first). Something I've already picked up on through reading this thread and blogs is...... "Your first job is to stay on".

I get the feel that the way to do that is to get the captiain thinking "we'll I can set a field for this, and he ain't costing much" rather than "Sh*t it's going everywhere, but he does get good turn". I'm going to take a punt that a lot is about confidence and appearances, and that I'm more likely to get a bowl, and a reasonable length one, if I'm as accurate as possible when I get my chance.

I also get the feeling from the practice I've done so far, in which I have got good spin, that accuracy is going to be my problem. As I keep hearing, you only need to divert enough to beat the edge of the bat ;) and I'm getting a fair bit more than that right now, even when I throw a few down the wicket at the park rather than on grass/in carpet nets.

And, I did say (as regards the wides and the compliments for having them so low) that this would be a good spell.... when starting, or when muscles are getting tired (which happens alarmingly quickly as I haven't built up stamina yet), it's more than that and with some horrific drag downs shooting off to 3rd slip. I guess I'm only getting 20min at peak from my 45-50min sessions, and I certainly have to extend that.

Still, it's been very encouraging.... and it's good to hear guys who've been through this part confirming that I'd kinda worked out the right things to do and I wasn't irrecovably learning bad habits.

We'll see how it goes this winter as to whether I join a team next year, I'll have to see how much practice I get.... if I can cut out the horrific drag downs when starting/tired/pissed off at myself..... and I am planning to move house spring/early summer next year so in any case it'd probably have to wait until after the move.

I guess that I want to feel properly in control of my bowling first, as though I know what I'm, doing...... and can execute a plan. Whats the point of figuring out batsmen when you can't put it where you've figured out you should ?

I need to be able to move my line and length at will, rather than just chucking it in the general area of a table top and hitting it more often than not. I want to be able to pick a quarter of my 1.5mX80cm table top and say "In that qtr this time" and do that more often than not.

I am, of course, spinning it all I can a work and at home, though I've been suffering from a sore 1st finger lately due to ripping the top layer of skin off with my "best ball" which has a huge seam, is very rough and appear to be the size of a melon compared to the other balls I have (I found it in the park).

With that, it's frustrating that the flick, with fingers, and dependable flight and spin I get throwing from hand to hand doesn't seem to have transferred to my actual action...... which feels very different from the hand to hand..... I don't seem to get the fingers, wrist turn and wrist flick occuring simultaneously in the action, though it's automatically simultaneous now with the hand to hand (hence, I guess, the inaccuracy and horrific drag downs). I think perhaps I am currently spending to much time concentrating on feet, body, leading arm and body rotation.

I also practice with both the big and little balls, and find the bigger balls easier to spin, and especially to keep the seam straight on (I learnt initially with a big ball). Again, it was good to hear I was following what seems to be a recommended practice of mixing balls purely by luck :D

I guess that..... next week...... I might have a few more questions. We'll see how my practice goes.

Thanks for all the help so far.

Yours,

TGP

(and as regards the length, I post on politics boards discussing politics..... these would count as medium sized posts there).
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave said:
With regards your concerns about playing in a cricket team I think you're view of club cricket maybe slightly over the top. If you were to join a team that played Sunday friendlies you'd find yourself surrounded by old duffers, young kids 13,14 and 15 years old, Dads that join in and newbies like yourself.
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Yes, I would agree with that. I haven't played for club, but I been at the training of my local club after they showed up when I was at the nets practicing. From what I viewed my inaccurate, inconsistent self was probably the third or forth best spinner there.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;368135 said:
Right TGP's first post..... I reckon there's going to be a few differences of opinion here, the first one around the importance of getting it to spin.

Look at this first - Grays & Chadwell CC when you click on the link have a look at the bowling stats for this season. Look at the following spinners -

Neil Samwell
Alex McLellan
Dave Thompson

Neil Samwell for instance you'll see is by far the best in most respects and he bowls Top-Spinners and small leg breaks, he'll tell you he doesn't turn the ball which to some point is true, the amount of turn he gets off the wicket is minimal. His secret is accuracy, variation in speed and length and prodigious top-spin which makes the ball dip rapidly at high speed. He holds the clubs record for the most wicket ever and the season record. Neils about 30 and has played cricket since he was 11 or so.

Alex McLellan he joined our club a couple of months before me, he plays 3 x as many games as me and is half my age almost 25-28 years old. He spins massively, with very good drift, but he bowls loads of wides and has very little control over his game. He takes what Neil calls 'Filthy' wickets e.g. wickets that come about through causing errors because of the unpredicatability of the delivery.

The other is me. I advocate the pursuit of prodigious spin combined with Grimmett-esque accuracy. But as a priority I would always suggest look for the accuracy slightly in front of the search for the optimum spin. I think someone pointed out a few days ago that people like Adil Rashid and Mendis don't turn the ball off the wicket that much.

So with regards the approach I'd advise I'd say stick with your basics for the minute, just bowl your Leg Break and a Top Spinner. The thing I found really useful was to work on my line and in the short term not worry about the length - as long as it's up there somewhere potentially under the bats nose and it's heading for the stumps with or without spin it's going to cause problems - again in our team we've got old boys that can put the ball on the spot time and time again and they bowl maiden after maiden and they hardly turn the ball. What I found really usefull was to cut a piece of hardboard 1.5 metres long x 250mm wide and placed this in line with my bowling line and then practiced bowling onto that. Providing I got the ball somewhere on the piece of board I was happy.

I reckon that if you're bowling only 2 wides out of 18 balls it sounds as though your accuracy with regards you line should come together quite quickly. So that sounds really promising.

The fact that you're aware that you are looking at a couple of years before you may be happy with your bowling is a good thing too as this shows that you're being realistic. With regards your concerns about playing in a cricket team I think you're view of club cricket maybe slightly over the top. If you were to join a team that played Sunday friendlies you'd find yourself surrounded by old duffers, young kids 13,14 and 15 years old, Dads that join in and newbies like yourself. Yeah it can be embarassing - I used to be mortified that I was being hit for 12-20 runs an over in every over, but it is one of the ways to learn and the sooner you get in there, the sooner you'll be forced to learn quicker and get some understanding of nuances of the game.

That's my say on some of the points you've made.

I'm not saying ignore the search for maximum spin, I do every day, but it's not at the forefront of what I do. I'm hoping that one day I'll suss out what I need to do to bowl the Biggun and it'll be the icing on the cake.
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Well Neil proves my point to a certain extent, he gets prodigous topspin and dip you reckon, so he does spin the ball hard, only he spins it more forwards than sideways.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

TheGreasyPole;368144 said:
I need to be able to move my line and length at will, rather than just chucking it in the general area of a table top and hitting it more often than not. I want to be able to pick a quarter of my 1.5mX80cm table top and say "In that qtr this time" and do that more often than not.
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there are 2 issues here to consider though (not saying that this is wrong, just that is has some drawbacks which i have some personal thoughts on which i think warrant consideration)...

1. if you can get it accurate to the point that you can pick your own spot within a 40cm square 90% of the time then youre as accurate as most of the guys at county and international level lol. by all means aspire to the highest level, there is no point in setting your targets low, always aim high and look to improve. however you certainly wont need to hold off playing until you get to this level, at this level of accuracy youll probably be the best bowler at your club if you spin the ball as well. getting the ball to land inside a hula hoop every ball is "good enough". from there you can then look to improve further, such as a dinner plate or a handkerchief.

2. being that accurate at the expense of spin (assuming it is at the expense of spin, if you can achieve both then thats perfect) has as many drawbacks as it does benefits. spin doesnt merely account for turn, it accounts for every aspect of a ball that deceives a batsman - alterations in length and trajectory, drift, pace off the pitch, bounce, and then eventually turn. turn is the last piece of the puzzle though, bowling at batsmen in the nets i get more joy from drift and bounce than i do from turn. without the drift they would play me on merit, the drift gets them squared up though and they lose track of where they are and what they are doing. then the bounce gets them flailing and the turn finds the edges. one of my best balls to a batsman in the nets drifted about 8" to outside leg stump, got him playing across his pads whilst reaching for the ball, and then bounced up at his face (he was wearing a helmet) where he instinctively moved a glove to protect himself and gloved it straight up to the imaginary keeper lol. the turn had almost no part to play, it often doesnt.

ive seen several bowlers at club level now who are dinner plate accurate (off spinners, no leg spinners, generally older guys as well). they are incredibly slow, generate almost no turn whatsoever (a few inches generally, and even then only because its so slow and lofted), the ball does nothing in flight and they chuck it up like a grenade, but they bowl maiden after maiden without ever taking a wicket. granted they are generally a favourite of the captain, especially early on to build pressure and give the seamer at the other end more chance of a wicket. but for me this would give me no enjoyment, i always want wickets, and taking a wicket inside your first 3 overs (youll generally always get 3, the first wont usually go for mega runs because if the ball is turning, batsman are wary to start out) will buy you more overs and also buy you economy. most batsmen get scared easily against spin so wickets stops them trying to play shots. accuracy over spin only really has a place against weaker batsmen, the further up the ladder you go the more easily a batsman will just dispatch of accurate yet consistent deliveries, even on a perfect length. if your target is only ever sunday friendlies then you will find great success, if you want to move up the ladder in league cricket though then this method can only go so far. one thought is that accuracy first allows big spin to be added later through a slow development. given that there are 6 months of off-season though i reckon its realistic to target accuracy AND spin straight away.

as said, you only need to be hula hoop accurate, and the more the ball spins, the more inaccuracy it allows you. for example, when im turning the ball big i can land it 3 feet outside leg stump and still get it to hit the stumps. youve only got to do it once and the batsman then knows he cant afford to simply leave you outside leg stump. so that alleviates any wide issues, and also gets him playing across his pads (youve got to land it inline to get LBW though). when Shane Warne talks about his ball of the century, he always says that he just wanted to chuck one up well outside leg stump with as much turn as possible as a signal of intent. to get the batsman worried about the turn (the wicket was a bonus). he often even words it as tricking the batsman into believing there is turn. simply using the angles you can give the impression of big turn even if its small. this does ultimately depend on you being able to turn the ball though. accuracy alone probably wont instill fear, but it may force errors.

in my opinion there are 2 ways to find success with better accuracy than conventional leg spin without generating big revs. one is to bowl faster and flatter (e.g. Ajantha Mendis), the other is to bowl top spin. bowling faster actually reduces accuracy by its nature, but if you bowl more like a seamer you can get it back, at the expense of spin. however the added speed gives batsmen less time to react, so even slight turn can be their undoing. also added speed exaggerates movements in flight so less revolutions still get the ball moving around. in the case of Ajantha Mendis, he also has a huge repertoire of variations and goes through many of them every over. hence his categorisation as a "mystery spinner".

the top spining method is something ive seen taught to kids starting out with wrist spin bowling. if you bowl it over the top of the wrist then you remove much of the margin for error involved in flicking the wrist sideways. the ball goes straight more of the time, you can therefore adjust line more easily, and also it encourages a full length with a lofty flight. my stock ball is an overspun leg break with about a 45 degree seam, e.g. pointing towards the slips/3rd man. once you get a feel for bowling like this then you can move your wrist through all the other angles and still find the line and length. but id personally encourage you to still bowl with a leg break aspect to the deliveries, simply bowling top spinners conditions the wrist that way and youll probably struggle to ever find a big leg break later. in the same way that im struggling to find a straight top spinner or a googly having bowled so many leg breaks lol.

one final point about your hand-to-hand spinning... i found that my bowling also didnt utilise my hand-to-hand method initially. drag downs were common, as were balls that came out of the top of the hand and landed on top of the nets, this happened upto 50% of the time depending on what kind of a day i was having, i still hit the roof of the nets every now and again, the advantage on a proper cricket pitch is that there is no roof and a delivery like that can still take a wicket lol. just keep at it, eventually youll train your wrist and fingers to replicate the hand method in your actual action. mine is now identical and i generate identical (or sometimes greater) revolutions on the ball in my actual bowling. i think my best ever is 1250rpm in actual bowling, whereas i generate 1200rpm between my hands. it improves all the time, generally by about 10-15% per month through constant practice. my realistic target is 1500rpm by the end of next season. my ultimate target is 2000rpm for my "career" but i doubt il ever get there.

ive successfully waffled on for another of my "war and peace" efforts as Dave put it lol. hopefully some of it is useful, its just some "wisdom" ive built up so far from practising, playing, reading spin bowling books/articles and watching the pros on TV, both playing and in interviews.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Thanks again for the advice everyone. This is really handy stuff to me.

As regards the accuracy thing, I think I maybe haven't explained well what I am looking for. I'm certainly not hoping for international level accuracy.

I mentioned my "patch" previously (which has now become my "tabletop" in my mind). As I said it's about 1.5mX80cm.

So bigger than a hula-hoop in both dimensions. In fact, as it's square, the total surface area is probably something like 2.5 hula hoops if you got a calculator out !

Where I want to get is "90% of deliveries in there". Lets say 5/6..... that in an area roughly the size of two hoops laid next to each other, length wise.

Then I think, within that, I want to be able to hit a qtr of it "More often than not"........ so once I get hitting the tabletop 4 to 5 out of 6 I'm hoping to be able to to myself say "full/leg qtr" and put it in that qtr, say, 60% of the time.

So I'm aiming for 5/6 in a "two hoola hoop" area and (within that) being able to hit "a half-a-hoop" I want to hit (a 75cn-40cm area) maybe 60% of the time.

I figure thats roughly accurate enough to be useful (the two hoop area) with some minimal control so I can execute plans (moving through the qtr's 60% accurately). So that, say, if a batsman is great off the back foot..... I can put 60%+ of my balls fuller on a good line.

Or if, say, he's good off his pads....... I can put 60%+ outside off, on a good length.

I'll still be (in this scenario) putting (say) 30-40% on his pads, but at least I will be able to move my line "most of my balls".

I figure without SOME control of that kind, I am just lobbing it up there..... and relying on the batsman not being able to cope with me. If he can, and I can't control it's landing on the pitch even minimally, I figure I'll get creamed. I'll just keep serving them up somwhere chosen randomly on the tabletop and when it's "in his area" he'll cream it to the fence.

As regards toppers...... I am only bowling 10% of my balls in practice as toppers. I know I've got to get the leggies first, and I know that bowling any other deliveries a lot before I've trained my action for leg-spin is just asking for trouble. Dave's blogs and these threads have been invaluable on that point, and saved me from possibly making a right balls up of starting to learn leg spin.

I am only bowling toppers even that much because I figure that when I start at a club I should have at least one accurate variation I'm confident in and I chose toppers as I found it by far the most natural variation for me. I'm using up my "allocation" of "10% of bowling time on variations" on it at the moment. I figure thats how I want to do it, at least now. Maybe later I'll up that to "20% of bowling time variations" if I need to develop others, or develop them faster, or my leggiues become super-awesome. I'm not going to go above 20% of balls bowled for any variation if I can help it. Once I've got that "good leggy" I want to KEEP it.:D

And as regards spin........ I have developed a "plan" here too.

I noticed I was more accurate without a flicky wrist action (of course) just relaying on a 3-finger push. However, I didn't want to go this route because I knew I needed the spin a flicky action could give and I'd regret it later if I hadn;t incorporated it right at the start. However, initially, the "very cocked wrist" and "biggest flick I could" couldn't provide any accuracy.

So what I've done is tried to keep the whole "flicky" action, but do it off what I call a "half cocked wrist", one held at (say) 45deg instead of 90deg. It's exactly the same action but my (still weak) wrist can cope with it better. As my wrist gets stronger, and as the rest of my action improves I'm planning on adding back in the other 45deg of flick by cocking the wrist further.

Off this "half cocked" wrist I still get good spin (just outside leg to just outside off on a good length, short cut grass/nets) and it's way more likely to hit the pitch. I fgure, because the flick is in there, and the cocked wrist......... once the rest of the action comes together more I can cock the wrist further, to 90deg, take an accuracy hit but be able to more easily get the "full bore flick" from there.

As I said....... I've got a long haul view of this....... I was not even seriously considering a club next year (although talking to you guys has encouraged me to do so after I've moved house as I will mid-next year). I was happy to spend months learning how to do this....... and right now...... with me getting good spin when I do hit where I want..... I just think there are others areas that need improvement more. Perhaps when my accuracy is up to the "standard" of my spin, I'll work harder on spin for a while, but right now accuracy is very much an issue. Hey, given the time scales I was thinking in........I could spend the next 6 months on accuracy...... and 6 after that on "more spin" and STILL have 6 months left before the season I was originally targetting to improve some other aspect.

Some other things......... Following advice on here.......I think I'm also going to extend my box. As I originally mentioned hitting within it is what I use to say decide "thats a good ball" from a "bad ball". I think from this point on I'll also count any ball thats in line with the stumps, all the way up to the crease. (i.e. full tosses on the stumps) as good balls (but not short ones on the stumps). From what you guys say, at this level, thats still an effective ball.

I think I'll also practice on the tarmac this week. I'll have a good go at that because (with a reliable surface like that) I'll get a much better reading of how much spin I get on the ball. At the moment it's in grass... and so the spin is highly variable....... I think off the tarmac I'd get a "steady reading" then I can report back to you guys what I'm seeing in devaiation and we can get a better idea of whether I need to ramp up the spin or not.

On that I'll let you know next week. Thanks again for your time and advice. There are several things mentioned that I'm considering (or will be doing) that I haven't mentioned for brevity (such as it is). I think the blogs and these threads are roughly making each session I do about twice as effective (or more !) than they would have been without all this sage advice.

Yours,

TGP
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

The Edge Of Willow;368147 said:
Yes, I would agree with that. I haven't played for club, but I been at the training of my local club after they showed up when I was at the nets practicing. From what I viewed my inaccurate, inconsistent self was probably the third or forth best spinner there.
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Sunday friendly matches here in the UK are usually very accomodating, I played with my sons team a few weeks back and they have a system whereby everyone bowls including the batsmen and they can't bowl. It's a good format in which you can get over some of your initial nervousness and problems, so I'd say as soon as you can get the ball up somewhere in the vicinity of the stumps join one of these teams.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;368316 said:
Sunday friendly matches here in the UK are usually very accomodating, I played with my sons team a few weeks back and they have a system whereby everyone bowls including the batsmen and they can't bowl. It's a good format in which you can get over some of your initial nervousness and problems, so I'd say as soon as you can get the ball up somewhere in the vicinity of the stumps join one of these teams.
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Yeah Greasy Pole there are plenty of teams here where it doesn't matter how crappy you play the whole comp is sometimes just an excuse for a piss-up anyway. I reckon by next season ( 6 months?) if you practise the basics there will be team for you.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I reckon there's a lot there for 'Greasy' to take on board, but I'm sure he'll have his own way of going about it all. I don't know whether there's any use in the rest of us having extended arguments about the merits of our own individual ways of getting this stuff together. I think if I was Greasy I'd err towards listening to Macca as he's the one bloke on here that has served his time as a Wrist Spinner and is now retired, whereas the rest of us in comparison to Macca are all new to the art and still finding our way.

Looking back at what you've all said though maybe 'Spin first' is the way forward? I actually learned initially 'Spin first' at the cost of accuracy and I've probably moved my position to accuracy first as a result of the Googly Syndrome. The thing is I can spin the ball and this is due to the fact that I learned the 'Spin first' way, it's just that I've obviously gone through an accuracy phase and now see that as an important part of what I do.

The thing that bugs the life out of me is the fact that even though I can turn the ball fairly well off the wicket using my different approaches to the Leg Break (90% of my wickets this year have been from Leg Breaks turning away from the bat) I know that the technique that I use isn't the same as the big ripping 'Flick' technique using the fingers and wrist in the same way that I do with the Top-Spinner and Wrong Un. I suppose what I'm doing is projecting my inadequacies with the Biggun on everyone else, I'm assuming that because I can't do it and have major league problems with being able to do it everyone else is in the same situation?

I just know that deep down being able to do it is just there somewhere - just out of reach, a slight change in something will bring it on, or maybe the whole winter trying it will be the difference? But when I do get it - it is going to turn like my wrong Uns. But having said that and read Jim's earlier post re Shane Warnes ball of the century - how useful will it be anyway - but I realise I can use it in the same way as I do with the Wrong Un - you just chuck up a Biggun primarily to let them know you can turn it BIG.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;368137 said:
I think the adverts change all the time and that's one that I've not noticed. How's your boy going? We've got dates for the indoor league now, but they're coinciding with searching for secondary schools as my older son is 11 and moves up next Sept. Hopefully they'll get a few games?
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My son moves up to high school next year as well. At his interview he found out his next school principal is a big leg spin enthusiast. His season starts in less than 2 weeks. His bowling is going good . He needs to work a bit more on his batting though.

I was watching him bowl from a fair distance for a change yesterday and he looked slow, too slow I thought, nice loop though with a very noticeable drop at the end. The only bowler that did not bowl one wide he also reckons he got a lot of outs, I was too far away to see.

He definately gets drift through the air and gets the ball to nip off the concrete even though he seems so slow and he will get loads of bounce with the match day ball. He needs a good keeper and slip catcher and a bit of luck and he should go OK.
I put a lot of his improvement down to reading this and the first wrist spin threads and blogs plus studying the written works of Grimmett and Philpott, the old and new testament that make up the legspinners Holy Word. Amen. It being Sunday morning we are off to church ( the local cricket nets) right now.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I've always wondered what time frame you're working in, so your post comes up here as 11.54 Saturday night and your posting at what 9.54 Sunday morning?

I wish I could say the same with my Son's potential schools. Some of the ultra posh schools in the area have a good cricket tradition, but they're all a bit exclusive, you kind of need to be able to sell your house and move into the catchment area in order to get into those schools as they only take about 25 outsiders and they set entry exams where the kids have to attain 95% correct answers in order to get in.

Cricket in schools here in the UK is down to the sports teachers enthusiasm and as I've said before because of the SKY sports situation cricket is now very much a marginalised sport. That coupled with the fact that something like 75% (maybe more) teachers are women here in the UK the likelyhood of there being a culture of cricket at a school these days is very rare. Plus a lot of the schools in recent decades because of property prices and the way that they fund their capital investments have sold off great chunks of their playing fields for development. Needless to say the fields that are left are then used for that game 'Soccer'. I'd also imagine that what with tight budgets in schools linked to the way they're funded these days, I'm sure that the wages that are paid to ground staff and the maintenance of their grounds no longer extends to employing someone with qualifications in Green Keeping in order that they can maintain a wicket or even sub-contract a company that can do the job.

I need to go to bed but I've just noticed everyone is on-line and no doubt typing away to leave epic posts, what do I do - stay or go???!!!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hi guys
i used to come on here
thought i would update how i have been going
i am in a training sqaud for under 17's state squad which the travelling party will be announced soon..fingers crossed i get in
In the tornament i have just played in my figures went like this:
3/20 and DNB and 1 catch in slips
off 4 overs (2 lbws and 1 stump)

0/7 and 8 runs batting (1 four)
off 1 over (came on when batter was really going and the other bowler took final wicket)

3/10 and 2 runs batting and 1 run out
off 4 overs only one four hit off me
2 wickets through bowling them (mid and leg respectively)
and the other was caught at point when they tried to cut it but it spun

the selectors were watching so hopefully i caught there eye
 
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