Leg Spin Horror - Some Disasters And How (maybe) To Avoid Them (i)

bosie

New Member
[some background]
I'm pretty much entirely self-taught, except for occasional bits of advice, not always good or helpful, from well-meaning proper players. I've got to the stage now where it's generally coming out rather nicely, even really well in the nets, although not always yet in matches, but it's been a long and tortuous journey.... sometimes I feel like I've established how to bowl by methodically trying and eliminating all the 100000 possible wrong ways. However if I'd never bowled a decent ball, I would have given up long ago. All the coaching I've ever wanted was just to take what was going right on the days it really clicked, and be able to wrap it up and carry it around in the kit-bag. I know very clearly in my head that there's a certain 'feel' when it comes out really well, as well as the way it 'feel's for different kinds of bad ball. Unfortunately a lot of coaches when it comes to leg-spin seem to have read the music, but not really heard it played, as it were. Even those who can bowl it well are not always able easily to communicate how it is that they are doing what comes naturally.

However I've started to build confidence that if I do a few particular things right, then it is likely to work, and that the days of wondering how I'd ever managed it are largely in the past. Things still go wrong, but I now have an idea of particular things that can go wrong and how to fix them. I'd be really interested if the particular problems ring a bell with anyone, even if you disagree with the suggested solutions. I have some youtube vloggy stuff I intend to get round to posting any decade now, but this is a mini ego-trip in the meantime.

[disclaimer] I'm pretty much entirely self taught, although I've read and followed what some of the writers and coaches who know what they're talking about say. So please take all this with a grain of salt.

[legspin common problems]
Symptom (beginner): I can bowl the odd good ball, maybe even have spells of landing a few fairly regularly, but things are generally all over the place. It feels either rushed or sluggish. The ball rarely lands on the spot, being comically bad some of the time, and when I do fluke one it sits up and turns only gently, and the trajectory is often funereally slow and loopy.
Suggestion: Slow things right down. Decide on the length of your run up so it's not something you have to think about. Measure it. Stick to it. You don't need much pace in your run up, or oomph in your body action, at least to start with, but you need to be committed to every part of it and not chicken out at any point. Try and run up, get side on, and pivot right through, with your eyes and shoulder level. Aim to be balanced and upright, with your trunk in particular braced and pushing tall from the base of the spine - don't let your body collapse because most of your body weight is here and it will pull you off balance. Try and be nice and tall as you approach the crease, then in your delivery stride push yourself taller over a braced front foot. As your body pivots and surges higher it is almost like you are coiling a spring tighter and tigher. As your body starts to slow down, *keep going* and ratchet up the tension. Finally 'release the spring' and allow yourself to flow forwards and complete the pivot as you release. You will naturally end up following through with your left arm high behind you, your body turned round towards cover, and your right arm across your body down by your left hip.

Don't worry too much about what the hands are doing - practice the hand action underarm (a la Philpott) or overarm over a short distance, and concentrate on the run-up and body action. For me, at any rate, 90% of the problems and the difficulties occur below the neck and elbows, and probably 60% above the knees. If your body is in a nice position and balanced at the point of release, then it can be ridiculously easy to control the ball and even make subtle variations of pace and flight. If you're off balance and falling through the action in an uncontrolled manner, then there is little your arm muscles can do to fight the 90% of your body mass that is pulling you out of kilter.

Symptom: Things are more consistently ok now - I have bursts of it going well. But then other times it seems not to work at all. I think I've diagnosed the problem and cracked it, then when I come to nets the next time it's almost back to square one with a different set of problems.
Suggestion: Getting there, but not all of the parts of the action are grooved enough to be automatic. The bowling action (from run up to follow through) is a concerted process with a lot of small actions: these often act against one another and cancel each other out to some extent. If you make one part of it 10% more vigorous, you probably need to make other parts 10% more vigorous to compensate, or you will end up with horribly mismatched forces. Furthermore, if concentrating mentally too hard on any one bit, and the other parts aren't completely grooved, you can forget to do them completely where previously you were doing them. Your practice can start to resemble attempting to fix a wobbly chair by putting wrong-sized wadges of paper under each of the legs in turn, going round and round and round. Concentrate on balance and rhythm. Try and get yourself to a stage where *all* of the parts of your action are functioning reasonably at 60% welly, such that it all seems balanced and not rushed and the ball lands reasonably predictably, even if it is still a bit of a lollipop. Make sure you are neither overexaggerating any one part, nor chickening out of another completely. Then slowly ratchet up the oomph, giving yourself a chance to learn how to adjust elsewhere to counterbalance the extra vigour in the bit you're working on. If you do try to work on a particular part of the action, only devote 10% of your brain 'CPU power' to focussing on that thing, lest you forget any of the other bits - use the other 90% to concentrate on being committed and rhythmical over the action as a whole.
 
[some background]
I'm pretty much entirely self-taught, except for occasional bits of advice, not always good or helpful, from well-meaning proper players. I've got to the stage now where it's generally coming out rather nicely, even really well in the nets, although not always yet in matches, but it's been a long and tortuous journey.... sometimes I feel like I've established how to bowl by methodically trying and eliminating all the 100000 possible wrong ways. However if I'd never bowled a decent ball, I would have given up long ago. All the coaching I've ever wanted was just to take what was going right on the days it really clicked, and be able to wrap it up and carry it around in the kit-bag. I know very clearly in my head that there's a certain 'feel' when it comes out really well, as well as the way it 'feel's for different kinds of bad ball. Unfortunately a lot of coaches when it comes to leg-spin seem to have read the music, but not really heard it played, as it were. Even those who can bowl it well are not always able easily to communicate how it is that they are doing what comes naturally.

However I've started to build confidence that if I do a few particular things right, then it is likely to work, and that the days of wondering how I'd ever managed it are largely in the past. Things still go wrong, but I now have an idea of particular things that can go wrong and how to fix them. I'd be really interested if the particular problems ring a bell with anyone, even if you disagree with the suggested solutions. I have some youtube vloggy stuff I intend to get round to posting any decade now, but this is a mini ego-trip in the meantime.

[disclaimer] I'm pretty much entirely self taught, although I've read and followed what some of the writers and coaches who know what they're talking about say. So please take all this with a grain of salt.

[legspin common problems]
Symptom (beginner): I can bowl the odd good ball, maybe even have spells of landing a few fairly regularly, but things are generally all over the place. It feels either rushed or sluggish. The ball rarely lands on the spot, being comically bad some of the time, and when I do fluke one it sits up and turns only gently, and the trajectory is often funereally slow and loopy.
Suggestion: Slow things right down. Decide on the length of your run up so it's not something you have to think about. Measure it. Stick to it. You don't need much pace in your run up, or oomph in your body action, at least to start with, but you need to be committed to every part of it and not chicken out at any point. Try and run up, get side on, and pivot right through, with your eyes and shoulder level. Aim to be balanced and upright, with your trunk in particular braced and pushing tall from the base of the spine - don't let your body collapse because most of your body weight is here and it will pull you off balance. Try and be nice and tall as you approach the crease, then in your delivery stride push yourself taller over a braced front foot. As your body pivots and surges higher it is almost like you are coiling a spring tighter and tigher. As your body starts to slow down, *keep going* and ratchet up the tension. Finally 'release the spring' and allow yourself to flow forwards and complete the pivot as you release. You will naturally end up following through with your left arm high behind you, your body turned round towards cover, and your right arm across your body down by your left hip.

Don't worry too much about what the hands are doing - practice the hand action underarm (a la Philpott) or overarm over a short distance, and concentrate on the run-up and body action. For me, at any rate, 90% of the problems and the difficulties occur below the neck and elbows, and probably 60% above the knees. If your body is in a nice position and balanced at the point of release, then it can be ridiculously easy to control the ball and even make subtle variations of pace and flight. If you're off balance and falling through the action in an uncontrolled manner, then there is little your arm muscles can do to fight the 90% of your body mass that is pulling you out of kilter.

Symptom: Things are more consistently ok now - I have bursts of it going well. But then other times it seems not to work at all. I think I've diagnosed the problem and cracked it, then when I come to nets the next time it's almost back to square one with a different set of problems.
Suggestion: Getting there, but not all of the parts of the action are grooved enough to be automatic. The bowling action (from run up to follow through) is a concerted process with a lot of small actions: these often act against one another and cancel each other out to some extent. If you make one part of it 10% more vigorous, you probably need to make other parts 10% more vigorous to compensate, or you will end up with horribly mismatched forces. Furthermore, if concentrating mentally too hard on any one bit, and the other parts aren't completely grooved, you can forget to do them completely where previously you were doing them. Your practice can start to resemble attempting to fix a wobbly chair by putting wrong-sized wadges of paper under each of the legs in turn, going round and round and round. Concentrate on balance and rhythm. Try and get yourself to a stage where *all* of the parts of your action are functioning reasonably at 60% welly, such that it all seems balanced and not rushed and the ball lands reasonably predictably, even if it is still a bit of a lollipop. Make sure you are neither overexaggerating any one part, nor chickening out of another completely. Then slowly ratchet up the oomph, giving yourself a chance to learn how to adjust elsewhere to counterbalance the extra vigour in the bit you're working on. If you do try to work on a particular part of the action, only devote 10% of your brain 'CPU power' to focussing on that thing, lest you forget any of the other bits - use the other 90% to concentrate on being committed and rhythmical over the action as a whole.

Good stuff Bosie epic as well, War and Peace of wrist spinning. I've taken days to just get round to reading it let alone commenting on it! (1). Yep can't wait to see the videos. (2). Just the opening paragraphs chimes with me - days when it comes out right and then wanting to somehow keep that feeling, grip, action or whatever it is, somehow stored ready to use the next time, so that it works first time and that after just reading the first two paragraphs of the first chapter!!!! I'l get back to it now!
 
(1). Measure your run up and stick to it.
Never thought of that before, but seam bowlers do it, so does Warne, so why not us?
(2). Be nice and tall through the action and push yourself taller over the braced foot.
This sounds like another way of explaining the need to get up onto the toe through the pivot action, again just a different way of saying something obvious, but your way just may click with someone who just hasn’t heard that yet and taken it on-board. I like the description surges higher.
(3). I like the CPU analogy as well. Getting too tied up and focussing on one thing leads to loads of other stuff coming un-done.

I’ve had spates of bowling exceptionally well recently, only to come crashing down in the last two weeks seemingly by trying something too hard I reckon and focusing on one aspect too much. On the pitch-vision website at the moment (David Hinchcliffe) they’re offering a series of 8 ‘Lessons’ via email that will help with your spinning and the first one is based around the Philpott Spin the ball hard mantra. So tonight having bowled thousands of pies in the last 2 weeks I thought I’d go over and just spin the ball hard and not give a monkeys about where it might land just as long as it was spinning. I did that several times and the line and length were okay and then decided to do one of the things you’ve suggested above – run up of a regular length and then committed to bowl with a bound see here for that story http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2011/06/return-of-bound.html
Then for the first time in ages it all came together – but now I’ve just got to hope I’ll be able to repeat again tomorrow and that my knee will hold out!
 
For (1) I found I was worrying a bit about no-balls and looking down at the crease when I was bowling. So I decided to find something that was moderately comfortable and stick to it, so that at least it was one less drain on the old CPU when I was bowling.

For (2) I learned this last year, then forgot it when I lost my newly minted and highly promising action over the winter, then rediscovered it. It's partly a need to get high with the toes, but also (as I discovered after practically ballet-dancing my way through a highly disappointing net session a few weeks ago just when I thought I'd cracked it) just as important to be upright from waist to shoulders. This is partly so the upper body is loose and the shoulders can rotate freely, but mostly because the majority of your body mass is in the trunk. If it's off balance as you move into the delivery stride, then it will fight you all the way. The single most dramatic improvement I made last year was to try and stand tall with a braced lower back, even as I start my run up, then get even taller when bowling. It's easier to maintain balance if you start off with it than it is to try and gain it having started from a bad position.

I had an interesting encounter with the point in (3) on tuesday. Things had been going well recently (best ever figures last Saturday), so in keeping with my desire to just do a bit every day, while visiting my parents I popped in to the local club for a bowl. It wasn't distastrous, but it just didn't feel right. I kept trying all the various pointers in my Epic above, but first one thing went wrong, then another. So I finally decided I was overcomplicating things and just needed to clear my head and commit to the whole action without trying to force any one thing. Then it clicked. See the very last suggestion in Part iv :)
 
I had an interesting encounter with the point in (3) on tuesday. Things had been going well recently (best ever figures last Saturday),

congrats on your best bowling figures bosie. lots of good stuff in your posts as well.The thing i took from your writings was Keep it simple, but study the art closely and in detail. A coach is good for that but every legspinner needs to self coach a lot so keeping it simple requires practise in itself.
 
I think the speed of your run-up plays a big role for bowling consistently. The faster your run-up, the less control you have over your bowling. I bagged a 6 wicket haul in a match a couple of months ago and a few days later I was struggling to bowl on length then i had my action analysed and found that it was all perfect except for the pivot. I was bowling over the front foot instead of against it. I tried slowing down my run-up and it all fell into place.
 
I think the speed of your run-up plays a big role for bowling consistently. The faster your run-up, the less control you have over your bowling. I bagged a 6 wicket haul in a match a couple of months ago and a few days later I was struggling to bowl on length then i had my action analysed and found that it was all perfect except for the pivot. I was bowling over the front foot instead of against it. I tried slowing down my run-up and it all fell into place.

Jeez! I was bowling over the front foot instead of against it. what does that mean? Kiarn you're going to have to explain that in more detail for morons like me. I'm uploading a few new vids soon from some really unusual angles keep an eye for them over the next couple of days and see if I'm doing either of those and perhaps you can point it out in my vids?

A bit later - here it is have a look and see what you reckon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8bsppE8dGU
Any suggestions as to what I might be able to do to improve, or whether there's anything fundamentally wrong?
 
For (1) I found I was worrying a bit about no-balls and looking down at the crease when I was bowling. So I decided to find something that was moderately comfortable and stick to it, so that at least it was one less drain on the old CPU when I was bowling.

For (2) I learned this last year, then forgot it when I lost my newly minted and highly promising action over the winter, then rediscovered it. It's partly a need to get high with the toes, but also (as I discovered after practically ballet-dancing my way through a highly disappointing net session a few weeks ago just when I thought I'd cracked it) just as important to be upright from waist to shoulders. This is partly so the upper body is loose and the shoulders can rotate freely, but mostly because the majority of your body mass is in the trunk. If it's off balance as you move into the delivery stride, then it will fight you all the way. The single most dramatic improvement I made last year was to try and stand tall with a braced lower back, even as I start my run up, then get even taller when bowling. It's easier to maintain balance if you start off with it than it is to try and gain it having started from a bad position.

I had an interesting encounter with the point in (3) on tuesday. Things had been going well recently (best ever figures last Saturday), so in keeping with my desire to just do a bit every day, while visiting my parents I popped in to the local club for a bowl. It wasn't distastrous, but it just didn't feel right. I kept trying all the various pointers in my Epic above, but first one thing went wrong, then another. So I finally decided I was overcomplicating things and just needed to clear my head and commit to the whole action without trying to force any one thing. Then it clicked. See the very last suggestion in Part iv :)

Is this related to - Ashley Malletts description here

The key to spin bowling is how the ball arrives. If the ball is spun hard and the bowler gets lots of energy up and over his braced front leg, he will achieve a dipping flight path that starts just above the eye line and drops quickly.
Can someone somehow describe this in another way (the bold bits) and maybe look at my new video and see if I appear to be doing this at all or sufficiently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8bsppE8dGU I've been bowling quite well today, taking on board some of the stuff Bosie has been writing about, I was thinking more about the pace of the ball and have been working on whipping the arm over more rapidly as I'd noticed the way that Warne approaches the crease in this video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIi-Hhw_ETg&feature=related with one step if that, but then the way the arm comes over with incredibly ease and he whips it through. So I've been doing the same thing and it's worked pretty well. This afternoon I took away the stumps and put a 12"x12" mat down on the length I wanted to bowl to with this new action and it's come together quite well. Long term readers of the this thread with know that I talk about the fact that if I'm honest I'm probably a roller rather than an proponent of the ripped/fizzed ball, it's not that I want to be a roller, but I've never been able to get the ball out of the hand with an almighty big flick, but it's coming and today it was going well with this new whipped over arm action, so things are looking up.
 
Jeez! I was bowling over the front foot instead of against it. what does that mean? Kiarn you're going to have to explain that in more detail for morons like me. I'm uploading a few new vids soon from some really unusual angles keep an eye for them over the next couple of days and see if I'm doing either of those and perhaps you can point it out in my vids?

A bit later - here it is have a look and see what you reckon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8bsppE8dGU
Any suggestions as to what I might be able to do to improve, or whether there's anything fundamentally wrong?

Bowling against the front foot means to grip the pitch and pivot. By bowling over the front foot there is no pivot. You may put more than a 100% effort but you will not able to finish your bowling action if you are bowling over the front foot. Remember that the more time you spend on your front foot, the more purchase you get on the ball. I had a look at your bowling. Your pivot looks fine, but it is a little difficult to tell from that angle. Did you get rid of the skip? My coach tells me that it is the best way to get inconsistent. I too used to bowl with a skip.
Cheers Dave
 
Bowling against the front foot means to grip the pitch and pivot. By bowling over the front foot there is no pivot. You may put more than a 100% effort but you will not able to finish your bowling action if you are bowling over the front foot. Remember that the more time you spend on your front foot, the more purchase you get on the ball. I had a look at your bowling. Your pivot looks fine, but it is a little difficult to tell from that angle. Did you get rid of the skip? My coach tells me that it is the best way to get inconsistent. I too used to bowl with a skip.
Cheers Dave

Yeah the skips gone Kiran, I'm working on the 'pivot foot' at the minute, I've made some videos of my bowling action with the camera close up from front, both sides and just looking at the pivot leg. I've been talking to my clubs leg-spinner tonight having watched his bowling and he has a beautiful bowling action (Highest wicket taker in his league at the moment) which includes a balletic rise right up onto his toes and then a twist through the action, which is a drill that Liz Ward has been getting me to try. It's a work in progress, but I've noticed that it does work and it seems to increase things like dip and drift, which are not obvious features of my bowling. Good to hear that you ditched the skip, my bowling has improved in lots of respects this year, but I'm being impeded by a bad knee ligament injury on my right leg.
 
Hi Bosie, it's been great to read your posts on the leg spin disasters as I have been so frustrated with my progress.
I have been bowling medium pace in matches but practicing leg spin quietly on the side as I wish to master the art enough to prolong my career.
My question is: what do you believe I should work on at my next training session in order to eliminate the inconsistency in length, line and fizz from my hand?

To help you my grip is 2 up 2 down with a gap between palm and ball.
Right handed and 6.2 in height.
My grip is firm and I use a cocked wrist
I spin the with enormous rip sometimes but so inconsistently and with inconsistent line and length. On many occasions I feel the ball just flop out with little spin.
I get side on with a similar pre delivery arm action to SW and my delivery arm is mid to high. Sometimes I feel the ball flick and fizz out resulting in huge turn, but then this disappears only to return spasmodically.
I have not spent much time on variations as I need to have a consistent stock ball.

Your more detailed analysis of the action, braced front leg and rotation is making me think that this might be my issue. Also the release position and how the resistance is built up to spin against sounds like what might be absent in my deliveries.

You sound like you have gone through many of these issues and I am in need of assistance

If you could suggest some drills that I could apply to my training, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm all ears at this stage as I love the art and want to pursue my love for it by being more than useful.

Regards Darryn
 
probably need to see a video to be able to make an informed comment. Its worth noting that erratic line, erratic length and erratic spin may all have three different causes.
 
Hi Bosie, it's been great to read your posts on the leg spin disasters as I have been so frustrated with my progress.
I have been bowling medium pace in matches but practicing leg spin quietly on the side as I wish to master the art enough to prolong my career.
My question is: what do you believe I should work on at my next training session in order to eliminate the inconsistency in length, line and fizz from my hand?

To help you my grip is 2 up 2 down with a gap between palm and ball.
Right handed and 6.2 in height.
My grip is firm and I use a cocked wrist
I spin the with enormous rip sometimes but so inconsistently and with inconsistent line and length. On many occasions I feel the ball just flop out with little spin.
I get side on with a similar pre delivery arm action to SW and my delivery arm is mid to high. Sometimes I feel the ball flick and fizz out resulting in huge turn, but then this disappears only to return spasmodically.
I have not spent much time on variations as I need to have a consistent stock ball.

Your more detailed analysis of the action, braced front leg and rotation is making me think that this might be my issue. Also the release position and how the resistance is built up to spin against sounds like what might be absent in my deliveries.

You sound like you have gone through many of these issues and I am in need of assistance

If you could suggest some drills that I could apply to my training, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm all ears at this stage as I love the art and want to pursue my love for it by being more than useful.

Regards Darryn
Darryn, Bosie has been and gone, he posted some good stuff while he was with us, but then disappeared as quickly as he came. Last time he was seen on here was July 29th 2011! From what you've said here, my first suggestion would be to change your grip - loosen it, try it a lot looser and then try stupidly loose. The fact that you're gripping it so tight might mean that same tension goes through the whole of your body?
 
Also, there's a lot to be said for just putting plenty of work in. It really does take a long time to be able to rip the ball big and with accuracy. Remember, Bill O'Reilly said it takes about 4 years to be able to do it and that's 4 years working on it everyday! Shane Warne managed it in 2-3 years, but you are looking at a good 3 years. I've been working solidly on it for almost 3 years and it's only in the last couple of months that I've been able to spin the ball hard whilst maintaining consistent line and length.

That's why it is such a tough thing to do. I reckon leg spin easily has the biggest take-up in cricket, everyone tries it at some point. How many decent leg spinners do you see in club cricket? Not many because most of them pack it in through sheer frustration. You have to be a very dogged, determined and stubborn person to become a good leg spinner because those feelings of frustration and confusion are all too common.
 
Also, there's a lot to be said for just putting plenty of work in. It really does take a long time to be able to rip the ball big and with accuracy. Remember, Bill O'Reilly said it takes about 4 years to be able to do it and that's 4 years working on it everyday! Shane Warne managed it in 2-3 years, but you are looking at a good 3 years. I've been working solidly on it for almost 3 years and it's only in the last couple of months that I've been able to spin the ball hard whilst maintaining consistent line and length.

That's why it is such a tough thing to do. I reckon leg spin easily has the biggest take-up in cricket, everyone tries it at some point. How many decent leg spinners do you see in club cricket? Not many because most of them pack it in through sheer frustration. You have to be a very dogged, determined and stubborn person to become a good leg spinner because those feelings of frustration and confusion are all too common.

I love this post! My experience is that, as you've said a lot of bowlers at some point pick the ball up and give it a go and lots of them get shed loads of spin on the ball and loads of turn off the wicket - mucking about with it. But very few of then ever combine it initially with any degree of accuracy and it's very rare that any of them reflect on it and think with a little work I could do something with this and become a wrist-spinner. It is a very tough thing to do from many aspects and I've read on a number of occasions that it is recognised as the most difficult of all the disciplines in cricket. As you say, you have to be a certain kind of person to do it and very, very patient. A classis example can be found on here, if you search back through the threads you'll find Jim2109 a few years back, he was pretty obsessed and used to make wild claims about how good he was, he made some good videos that people used to view and it looked as though given a few more years he may have been a decent wrist spinner or at least a good Leg Break bowler. He was a massive advocate of the 'Spin it hard' club and I reckon he was of that ilk, but a lot of the time he couldn't land the ball on a barn door let alone a hanker-chief and he used have massive run-ins with his captain and club, because he had such a high opinion of his own bowling abilities. But as quick as he came on to the scene with his meteoric rise, he disappeared. In part it was down to his action and the fact that bio-mechanically it wasn't good and he suffered constant injuries and yet he was only in his late 20's.

It is hard. Very hard and it takes a lot of time and a certain type of person. Hence, as you say you very rarely see Wrist Spinners in any teams, the current trend and popularity is the 'Warne Affect', I've never met another wrist spinner in the last 7 years that is any older than 25.
 
It is hard. Very hard and it takes a lot of time and a certain type of person. Hence, as you say you very rarely see Wrist Spinners in any teams, the current trend and popularity is the 'Warne Affect', I've never met another wrist spinner in the last 7 years that is any older than 25.

Very true. One of the other things I see plenty of is the player who calls himself a 'leg spinner' and then bowls nothing more than a series of leg cutters at about 60mph. Nothing wrong with that. The reason they bowl like that is because they don't go for runs and they pick off the weak batters. But, it isn't leg spin, that's for sure and those players never will be leg spinners. The reason for that is because they are too scared of being hit for runs. You have to enjoy it, love it even, when a batter takes you on. I bowl better the more aggressive I am. I probably look like a fast bowler in my facial expression when I'm bowling at my best. The amount of effort and energy at the crease is possibly the same as that of a fast bowler, so you probably should look like you want to knock the batter's head off when you bowl. There's no better way of getting aggressive than the batter taking you on. I find it a little frustrating when I face a 'proper' bat who watched the ball and plays with the spin. Aggressive sloggers can wind you up, but in the best possible way. They will hit some runs and you will get them out.

I was bowling to a Sri Lankan batter a couple of months ago and he almost always stuck that left foot down the crease and heaved across the line to cow corner. I think he got something like 13 runs off 8 balls before I got one to drift into his legs, through the gate and onto the top of off-stump. Hugely satisfying and possibly the result of me getting right into that contest and being very aggressive. In the same match, another batter was doing something similar. For him, I held one back a little and he was through his shot way too eary and lobbed the ball to point. You can only get those wickets if the batters go after you. You won't beat the batter in the air with those 60mph cutters and you probably won't get the batter slogging against the spin with those cutters either. Leg-spin is the ultimate risk/reward and if you are not prepared to risk, you won't get the reward and the rewards that come from leg-spin are, as I say, hugely satisfying.

It's remarkable how many spinners (youngster in particular) who revert to quick darts as soon as a batter goes after them. This is why leg spin is such a difficult art. The technique is one thing, but the psychology is another. You have to have those strengths of mental toughness and even a bit of stubborness. You will need that as you learn and develop the technique and you will need it out in the middle. Many, many people will talk exclusively about the technique of leg spin - understandably so. For me, the psychology is every bit as important.
 
Very true. One of the other things I see plenty of is the player who calls himself a 'leg spinner' and then bowls nothing more than a series of leg cutters at about 60mph. Nothing wrong with that. The reason they bowl like that is because they don't go for runs and they pick off the weak batters. But, it isn't leg spin, that's for sure and those players never will be leg spinners. The reason for that is because they are too scared of being hit for runs. You have to enjoy it, love it even, when a batter takes you on. I bowl better the more aggressive I am. I probably look like a fast bowler in my facial expression when I'm bowling at my best. The amount of effort and energy at the crease is possibly the same as that of a fast bowler, so you probably should look like you want to knock the batter's head off when you bowl. There's no better way of getting aggressive than the batter taking you on. I find it a little frustrating when I face a 'proper' bat who watched the ball and plays with the spin. Aggressive sloggers can wind you up, but in the best possible way. They will hit some runs and you will get them out.

I was bowling to a Sri Lankan batter a couple of months ago and he almost always stuck that left foot down the crease and heaved across the line to cow corner. I think he got something like 13 runs off 8 balls before I got one to drift into his legs, through the gate and onto the top of off-stump. Hugely satisfying and possibly the result of me getting right into that contest and being very aggressive. In the same match, another batter was doing something similar. For him, I held one back a little and he was through his shot way too eary and lobbed the ball to point. You can only get those wickets if the batters go after you. You won't beat the batter in the air with those 60mph cutters and you probably won't get the batter slogging against the spin with those cutters either. Leg-spin is the ultimate risk/reward and if you are not prepared to risk, you won't get the reward and the rewards that come from leg-spin are, as I say, hugely satisfying.

It's remarkable how many spinners (youngster in particular) who revert to quick darts as soon as a batter goes after them. This is why leg spin is such a difficult art. The technique is one thing, but the psychology is another. You have to have those strengths of mental toughness and even a bit of stubborness. You will need that as you learn and develop the technique and you will need it out in the middle. Many, many people will talk exclusively about the technique of leg spin - understandably so. For me, the psychology is every bit as important.

Absolutely, it's just instinctive to try and bowl faster if things are not going right, it's certainly something I've done in the past and it takes a number of different things to go with the less intuitive option in these situations. As you say - psychology is massively important, but for that to be an option there has to be some skill and self belief in that you can turn to another option. It takes years (In my case) to get to the point where you're able to say to yourself 'Okay, you've just hit me for 4 off my last 2 stock balls, now I'm going get one up there that's got more spin on it and more over-spin and therefore it's going to dip and not turn as much' and then execute that delivery. It's when you have a degree of control over your deliveries, that you're able to implement the psychology aspects with confidence.
 
Topspin is good, sidespin is good, pace is good. Line and length is essential. Variations are useful.

The best ball any spinner can bowl is one at a good pace, with topspin and sidespin, leading to drift, dip, turn and bounce.

Bowling faster is only a problem if it means bowling flatter. It doesn't have to. Quite often that extra arm speed generates extra torque on the ball. Most amateur bowlers actually bowl too slowly and leave no room for a slower ball.
 
I am starting to feel confident at the crease now prior to bowling instead of nervous, knowing that if I bowl to standard chances and wickets will come along. In my first games I was very nervous but then I got used to things and now I am itching to bowl during matches.

For Darryn I would suggest two things: (1) standing start drill, I find if you can bowl relatively accurate from here it will give you more confidence to do so with a full action and (2) a looser grip as Dave says. Other than that read up, watch youtube, study hard, practice even harder and it will come together slowly but surely.
 
Darryn, Bosie has been and gone, he posted some good stuff while he was with us, but then disappeared as quickly as he came. Last time he was seen on here was July 29th 2011! From what you've said here, my first suggestion would be to change your grip - loosen it, try it a lot looser and then try stupidly loose. The fact that you're gripping it so tight might mean that same tension goes through the whole of your body?
Hi Dave, sorry for late reply. It feels like I have a loose grip but perhaps it tightens when I get into my stride. The feeling I get especially when I first start to bowl is a feeling that the ball is not fizzing out but sliding out. After a dozen deliveries the odd ball starts to rip and I can feel that flicking sound however it is so random. I certainly don't feel like the ball spins up. More of a pushing forward feeling. I took some video of my action so I will post this shortly. Not sure if this will show the wrist position closely. Really appreciate the assistance from those who have been there. Bowled last night in the nets and the ball kept sticking in the hand and was disastrous.
 
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