Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by Richard the Third, Feb 19, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    If the topspinner is ripped a fair bit, then the dip that you get really does cause all manner of problems to sloggers. Essentially, any batter with slack techniques will struggle when the ball isn't on the length they expect it to be on. They premeditate, plant their feet and get ready to swing. So any ball that dips on them will result in a miss-hit a lot of the time. It's those batters with quick feet who cope with topspinners well, but very few batters (even at high club level) use their feet well.
     
  2. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    3000 replies, 125,000 views on just this one alone, I'm beginning to think we are Big Cricket and that someone needs to start flashing the cash!!!!
     
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  3. shahidpak

    shahidpak Active Member

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    Ive played 2 matches for the 4th XI since my last post and alltogether i got 5 wickets from 11 overs in those two games, im suite happy with that... Im only a bowler but my u15a coach asked me to bat 3 from now on , this is a big responsibility as the highest ive aver batted is 9 :eek: but very excited to take this responsibility and hopefully ill get runs.
     
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  4. shahidpak

    shahidpak Active Member

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    When i was playing back in France, i only practised batting on synthetic football pitches , so the ball didnt come on to the bat so i had loads of time after the bounce to play my shots, even our pitches were only 3 inch grass mowed to 1 inch and they were "prepared" the same day or weird mats. I could used to batting on the synthetic, because thats where i batted the most, when I played on our mediocre attempted pitches, it came on slightly faster so I didn't bat exceptionally....

    So pace bowlers like my brother didn't seem very fast when I played him on the synthetic, but on Wednesday I faced my brother, who didn't change his bowling, in the nets, and oh my god he seemed fast, he bowled me a couple of bouncers as well....

    I now have to kind of learn to bat all over again, with this new pace, which seems impossible because I don't have enough time...
     
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  5. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Exceptionally good start well done mate! Batting, just take your time get in and then play your shots and see how it goes.
     
  6. Thivagar

    Thivagar New Member

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    Question time

    1.Do guys believe in the that a spinner must possess Tall skinny or Short fat fingers, along with strong shoulders in order to give good flick ?
    2. Do you believe that revs give you more turn? I used to bowl "leg spin" in my highschool with very little revs but the ball still spun pretty well. Now I rip the ball hard as i can. But how come I was able to spin big with very little revs ?
     
  7. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    There's no doubt that a legspinner's fingers are a major part of his ability to put revs on the ball. I'm not sure about the length of the fingers aspect of it. But the strength of the fingers is a big factor. I would imagine that longer fingers give more control and they would give more leverage on the ball, which would give the potential for revs. But, it is simply down to the strength of the fingers. Some people will have naturally stronger fingers but all spin bowlers will strengthen their fingers through doing a lot of bowling.

    Revs on the ball is one thing. Spin off the pitch is another. The spin off the pitch relies on factors in control of the bowler and some out of the control of the bowler. The pitch is, of course, the key part of how much spin there is. If you used to bowl on particularly spin friendly pitches, then you would get spin with minimal revs. Equally, if you land the ball on the seam, you will get more grip off the pitch too. You can get a spinner who puts lots of revs on the ball but hardly ever lands the ball on the seam and you can get one who puts fewer revs but always lands the ball on the seam. The latter would probably get as much spin, if not more by simply landing the ball on the seam. However, bowling with a consistent seam position has its drawbacks. At an advanced level, the batter will read what the ball is doing by watching the seam. Also, there will be a consistency of spin which a decent batter will play for. Bowlers like Brad Hogg almost always scramble the seam. It makes it impossible to read the ball from the seam and it also means an inconsistency in how the ball reacts off the pitch. If the ball lands off the seam, it will grip less and skid on more. I've faced an off-spinner who often bowls a ball that is released slightly differently so that it lands on the smooth side of the ball. It shoots on and is a very awkward ball to face. You can pick it if you watch it closely. But you can achieve that by simply bowling with a scrambled seam. A lot of spin bowlers bowl with a scrambled seam, don't realise it and get confused why some balls spin and others don't.
     
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  8. Thivagar

    Thivagar New Member

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    Thanks for the insight. I'm a pretty bad batsmen, I willingly bat last at the nets. By the time i come on all my team mates who are in their late 20s and earlu 30s are tired so most of theme switch to Off spin bowling. I used to hate facing spin because it requires lot of footworks and wrist work. After facing lot off break bowlers and learning how seam affects spin, drift and dip I have become a good player of spin. Even if I don't play a particular ball well I'll know exactly where the ball will land and how much it will turn. Does scrambled seam dip more ? If yes how much compared to a Top-spin leg break ? I have very short, skinny fingers and I always find it difficult to grip when attempting to scramble the seem. I adjust the amount of turn I get by simply pointing the seam either towards the batsmen or away towards slips, gully and etc. Here comes the issue, when I bowl with the seam pointing towards 1st slip or in between 1st and WK, the ball dips more, which i totally understand. When I bowl with the seam facing towards third man, or more across the ball drifts in towards the righty much more than I wanted and turns big. My question is, is it normal to spin big with ball also drifting big or is there away to make the ball not drift but get big turn ?
     
  9. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    You're showing off now! For me it's rare to get the ball to drift, I'd like to know how you do it and whether you can choose to drift or not drift and if you answer yes you can - what is you do that makes it drift?
     
  10. Thivagar

    Thivagar New Member

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    My accuracy and speed sucks big time though :p. So it is pretty much useless as of now. Well I used to bowl wobbly leg spin for my school's indoor B team with very little revs . I'd pick up wickets, get selected for outdoor and wouldn't get the chance to bowl; I probably would have gotten smashed anyway. So I'd go home, grab my cricket ball, lock my self in my room and just spin the ball hard as I can from one hand to the other. Every year of my 4 years in highschool was like this. So all I did was spin the ball hard I could in my room. So it's been like 6-7 years since I started just spinning the ball from my right hand to my left hand. I believe the revs I put is one of the biggest reason for my drift and my dip. I get my drift depends on where I point my seem. I get my biggest drift If I point my seam across(180 degrees), the straighter I point, lesser the drift I get. When I point the seam at 45* degree, I get half the drift I'd get from my biggest drift at the same time i'll get decent amount of dip as well. If i point my seam straight towards the batsmen I get no drift but maximum dip(Top spin) and of course no side spin. I simply cannot bowl my biggest leg break without drifting unless the ball is in the worst condition possible. I too would like to know how I can bowl without drifting. BTW I spin with all my fingers except my pinky. When it comes to my Leg Break, 50% of my effort comes from my 4th finger, 40% comes from my thumb and 10% from my index and middle finger. When I bowl my Top Spin, I use 60% of my thumb and 35% of my 4th finger and 5% of my index and middle finger. For my wrong un, I mostly use my 4th finger, but for my bigger wrongun I use my thumb more than my 4th finger. I use thumb for my slider and I don't have a flipper.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
  11. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Essentially, the direction of the spin will determine in which direction the ball moves through the air. In science-speak, it's called the Magnus Effect. If the spin is towards the batter, the spin creates a vacuum that pushed the ball down - hence the dip. If the spin is directly to the left, the force on the ball is to the right and, naturally, spin to the right creates drift to the left. If you can bowl a backspinner (most often the backspinner is bowled in the form of the flipper or a seam bowler's release), then the ball will carry to a slightly fuller length. Ideally, a legspin bowler will try to spin the ball towards 1st/2nd slip so as to get both dip and drift.

    Can you get the ball to not drift but still turn big. In short, no you can't. The revs that make the ball spin are the very same revs that create the drift. To be honest, you should want to keep the ball drifting. Decent batters will get accustomed to the drift, so it is important to vary the direction of the spin. If you want to reduce the amount of drift you get, you should aim to put much more topspin on the ball. That archetypal legspinner is 50% sidespin and 50% topspin. If you bowled a ball that was 100% sidespin, it would drift more than any other delivery. Equally, if you bowl a ball with 100% topspin it will dip more than any other delivery. If you bowl a ball that is about 80%-90% topsin and 10%-20% sidespin, then that would be a good ball to bowl as a change up delivery. It will drift less, dip more, still turn but get a bit more bounce. Ultimately, you should always look to vary what you do with the ball. Vary the pace and vary the balance between topspin and sidespin.

    As for accuracy, that will always suffer the more you try to spin the ball. You have two options:

    1) Spin it less and get more accuracy or

    2) Keep working on control
     
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  12. Thivagar

    Thivagar New Member

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    Thank you, yup it is kind of clear that now I must adapt to the drift and aim for outside off stump to get the ball to land where I want to(middle stump). Since my spin is something that a lot of people do not have and since big spin gives batsmen lesser time to time the ball, I'll work on my control and speed. My control and speed are way behind than it should be. It requires lot of practice, couldn't practice in winter now the weather is better but I've caught a bad cold. I'm also very lazy :p.
     
  13. Chino#21

    Chino#21 Active Member

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    You can counter drift and still bowl a heavily spun side spinner. Just lower your arm and focus more on bowling the ball from the leg side to the off side. If you consciously try to lessen drift you should be able to. All you have to do is create an angle that inhibits lots of drift.
     
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  14. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I'd love to have the problem of trying to bowl without drift!

    The factor which affects drift is the elevation of the seam angle. If the spin axis is tilted upwards, then the ball will tend to drift towards leg more. If it is tilted downwards, then it will tend to not drift or maybe even drift towards the off.
     
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  15. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    I get plenty of spin and a nice bit of drift too. I don't think at all about the drift other than wanting as much drift as possible. The main thing, if you get plenty of spin, is to try to get the ball to land on the line of the stumps. If you land it outside off-stump, you will find that many bats will simply play and miss. Get it on the stumps and give the batter the chance to edge it to the keeper and the slips. I see it many, many times. Most batters you face in amateur cricket will simply not be able to get their bat on the ball if it is outside off-stump and turning away sharply. Decent batters will play for the spin and play with the spin and they will often also use their feet to get to the pitch of the ball to take the spin out of the equation. For all other batters, get it reasonably full and on off-stump/middle-stump and you will get a load of wickets caught by keeper/slip.

    As for the drift. Yes, if you are getting consistent drift and a good amount of drift, aim outside off-stump and drift it onto off/middle.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
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  16. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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  17. Thivagar

    Thivagar New Member

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    I'm already 5.6, i can't lower my angle and bowl leg spin without landing it short :p.
     
  18. Thivagar

    Thivagar New Member

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    Interesting, that means not gripping the seem right ?
     
  19. Thivagar

    Thivagar New Member

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    Yup hat is what I've noticed it too. It is either good-full on off or good-short on the middle. Only after reading The Art of Wrist Spin bowling that i've understood about the use of Top Spin. Now I know that I must have at least some amount of dip so when the batsmen uses his feet, the ball lands much further away from him, causing him to miss-time the shot.
     
  20. Thivagar

    Thivagar New Member

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    Whats wrong Dave ?
     
Put it out there