Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by Richard the Third, Feb 19, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. Robert Walker

    Robert Walker New Member

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    At the moment I seem to be bowling a lot of bowls with more over spin than wanted, I seem to be cocking my wrists too much. Any help?
     
  2. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Hi Robert, something I like to do is practice spinning the ball back to myself, this is so you can copy that feeling when you bowl the ball and then you will have complete side spin. Also you can hold both hands out so you can see both palms, have the ball in your bowling hand, and then flick the ball from the bowling hand to the other hand, you should now see the back of your bowling hand. One last thing, the angle of the wrist for a leg spinner is so you can see the back of your hand, as Warnie says.

    Hope this helped and all the best.
     
  3. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Man when you find the solution to this one let me know :D

    I am still very much working on this. One thing I like doing is practising vertical spinning tosses, i.e. not hand to hand but straight up and down. The idea is to get the ball spinning about a vertical axis. If you can translate the same to a horizontally delivered ball, that would then be a pure leg break.

    Peter Philpott advises trying to deliver a 'backspun' legbreak, i.e. in practice I think it is totally impossible to produce the 'backspinner' but the result may well be a purer legbreak and Philpott maintains that practicing this hypothetical delivery helps as a technical exercise. It is certainly worth trying. I think it may reveal a desirable finishing position for the wrist and way that the ball dances from the fingertips.

    Many of the great legspin bowlers seem to have stock balls which are heavily overspun, so you are in good company.

    If I can produce heavily spinning 30 degree legbreaks accurately and consistently, I think I'll be quite happy. I've come to realise that the heavy spin is the most important due to the flight and kick off the pitch and getting a wide seam angle would be lovely but not so important.

    Keep practising!
     
  4. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I don't think it translates like that, if I am interpreting correctly, this would be a ball delivered with the axis of spin perpendicular, not parallel, to the direction of travel.
     
  5. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Adam Zampa's stock delivery is a flat topspinner (wrongly refered to as a flipper by the likes of Ravi Shastri on a regular basis). Plenty of T20 legspin involves those overspin deliveries.

    That said, the Afghanistani legspinner Rashid Khan has a very interesting action. His legspinner involves his hand dragging over and under the ball so the back of his hand is facing the batter at the point of release. It makes his googly virtually impossible to pick.

    In my experience, bowling with lots of overspin when trying to bowl with sidespin comes down to upper body rotation. If you are not rotated enough at the point of release, you will struggle to put sidespin on the ball.
     
  6. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Works for me, I got that from Dave's old video a while ago.
     
  7. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I honestly believe this is not practising a legbreak but a topspinner.

    I think I understand the idea, it's that if you are at the bowling crease facing square towards the midwicket boundary, then spinning the ball towards your chest is 'leg spin' were it to pitch that way down the track.

    But the issue is that everything changes once you are propelling the ball forwards. I don't think one can realistically think of this spinning action combined with a general bowling delivery to produce a square legbreak.

    Please forgive my scepticism but if you are really achieving wide seam angles I think you have achieved some further insight other than that which would be readily derived from this exercise.
     
  8. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Perhaps I can elaborate:

    During the last few hundredths of a second of a delivery, there are large forces / acceleration being applied to the cricket ball to accelerate it around the circle created the bowling arm.

    Now when the ball is gripped in a spinning couple, it's stable. But during the last period of a spinning action, the ball is not held in a spinning couple, but governed by one finger / point of contact. It is not stable.

    This isn't much of an issue to control if you are spinning the ball hand-to-hand or back towards your chest. However in a real delivery, the ball has to be vigorously brought and accelerated around the circle created by the bowling arm.

    if you were try to exactly add the simple 'spin it back towards your chest' spinning action, as I understand it anyway, as soon as the index finger leaves the ball, the ball is going to fly out of the hand somewhere.

    Or at least, many hand actions which would spin a ball back towards the chest will not straightforwardly translate to an actual legspin release with a wide seam angle.
     
  9. The Edge Of Willow

    The Edge Of Willow Member

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    The forward momentum is actually partly what makes it work. Since the angles and forces involved make it more or less impossible to spin the ball right back towards yourself, you end up just pushing out and up around the ball. Whether you get a square leg-break depends your particular action, on just how far around you can flick your "wrist back towards your face," but getting a square leg break is often not the point of the exercise.

    For a lot of people, those struggling with overspinning everything, the point is just to get more sidespin, so they can get some break off the wicket when they want it. "Back towards yourself" is sort of an exaggeration used to break the habit of just rolling the fingers down and over the top of the ball.
     
  10. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Oh I understand this now. Bringing it as far around as it can go. It's a very similar idea to attempting Philpott's 'backspinner'

    apologies @TomBowler97
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  11. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    You can practice all types of releases from hand to hand by just moving the position of your arm. You can also practice spinning the ball back to yourself just like a wristspun backspinner. But of course, you can only bowl the backspin in this manner because doing so normally requires that you bend your arm massively. All other backspinning deliveries are just dragging your fingers down the back of a ball like a seam delivery. Putting any decent amount of revs on a wristspun backspinner is not legally possible.
     
  12. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    It would be perfectly legal! Just not physically possible.

    It's possible to produce a thumb-spun backspinning delivery though.
     
  13. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Well, yeah, I suppose if you don't change the bend of the elbow (ie you don't throw it), then it would be fine. As you say, it would be exceptionally awkward to do and probably impossible to do so accurately and consistently. Which is a shame because can you imagine how effective a wristspun backspinner would be? You can easily see why so many people talk about, even dream about, a genuine backspinner with big revs on it. Just not practical unfortunately.
     
  14. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    No worries mate!
     
Put it out there