Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by Richard the Third, Feb 19, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    From an interview with David Frith:
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/wisdencricketer/content/story/306959.html
     
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  2. Billywhizz

    Billywhizz Member

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    Did it turn much? how was the seam position? When I bowl it, its full side spin so sometimes grips and sometimes skids on.
     
  3. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    At the risk of repeating myself.

    Well he would say that, wouldn't he. His terminology would not be the same as our terminology. Have you read "Great Bowlers and Fielders: Their Methods at a Glance (1907)" by C. B. Fry? The terminology he uses is totally different from the terminology we use today.

    Most cricket writing and commentary, is sadly, complete gibberish. This is never more the case when talking about spin bowling. Its depressing, the distinction between off-breaks and off-cutters, flippers and sliders, etc is actually pretty clear-cut, its just that no-one outside of the professional coaching community seems to have the first ************** clue what they're talking about.

    Sydney Barnes was a great bowler, but he did not bowl leg breaks. He bowled leg cutters.
     
  4. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I tried a couple today, seam position looked suprisingly square, I guess tilted back so a little bit flying saucer, but it did turn. I'll try to film things. Of course when you have the camera running or it's a match bowling these things is a different matter!

    My bowling is really improving. I'm practising off one pace and absolutely enjoying the feeling of the ball coming off the fingers and somehow it's kicking to the off when I'm just trying bowl a natural topspinner. This all really puzzles me but I've decided to just work on whatever feels good and naturally spins the ball, then vary it later if necessary, there's plenty of natural variation anyway.

    Have a friendly match on Sunday where I'll probably get a few overs.
     
  5. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    But doubtless this is your personal definition of a cutter.
     
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  6. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    No, its the definition used by cricket coaches, players, and experts. I've been to plenty of workshops and conferences on spin and seam bowling, this is something that everyone understands and agrees on.

    Out of the goodness of my heart and the generosity of my spirit, I am taking time out of my day to share this knowledge with you. I ask for nothing in return.

    However, if you want to remain ignorant and misinformed, that is entirely your prerogative. However I must ask, if you're just going to be a rude prick, why come on this website? Just go back to bowling at your climbing wall.
     
  7. Chino#21

    Chino#21 Active Member

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    A cutter by any other name would spin as well. - William Shakespeare.
     
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  8. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I will concede this point to you SLA if you will find me one such quote on the entire internet, or other sourced material that I can verify, that is not simply your own.
     
  9. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I have reported this post as abusive.
     
  10. Neville Young

    Neville Young Member

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  11. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    If SLA is correct, I wonder why we aren't telling our medium pacers to work on their leg cutters, bowl them as their stock balls, so they can become unplayable and take wickets at 16 point something in test matches.
     
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  12. Darth Spin

    Darth Spin Active Member

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    You sound like Alan Partridge.
     
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  13. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Had a friendly game yesterday. New captain, who shares a first name with me, and who I had bowled a nice googly to in the nets. Surprisingly he calls me up to bowl reasonably early on in the innings and gives me a four-over spell. I certainly didn't truly nail anything and it felt like an ordeal as I bowled weak and high down leg or wide on the offside or dragged it down. However, I bowled some passable straight stuff, one of which took a stumping. A googly took an inside edge (batsman over corrected) and the keeper managed to kick it up in the air and nearly caught by slip. I dropped a return catch of a short ball. People were very entertained, and it feels like my fundamentals are really improving, even if I haven't really relaxed and nailed it in a match yet.

    Does make a difference having an enthusiastic captain. I felt that bowling the drag downs or wides didn't really matter.

    Onwards!
     
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  14. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I tried one Barnes ball. That was one of the drag downs.
     
  15. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    Because we no longer play on uncovered pitches?

    Seriously, its not rocket science.
     
  16. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    Good luck with that. I've been subjected to racial abuse and threatened with physical violence on here, and they did nothing about that, so I don't suppose they're going to care a huge amount about you throwing your toys out of the pram.
     
  17. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    How are your basics? Have you at least read the Wilkins book that we've talked about on here about 100 times?
     
  18. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    You may quote from any book regardless of whether I have read it or not: what's the quote?
     
  19. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Accurate fast-medium to medium-pace leg-breaks were special enough on their own, but when we look at Barnes' hand, high above his head at the point of delivery, we can't help noticing how different it is from the numerous leg-spin bowlers photographed since then. Many writers have attested to this individuality. As if in royal command the wrist is straight or as in some photographs of Barnes, bent back, and the palm faces the batsman or a point above the batsman. No horizontal crooking or inward curling of the wrist here, but a rapid rotation of the forward-facing hand as if unscrewing something anti-clockwise from an imaginary ceiling above him, while at the same time imparting a violent leg-break flick with powerful fingers. Now we see that there was more to Barnes' high action than achieving height and bounce, important though these are.

    ...

    We give The Master the last word, taken from a letter he wrote to Jack Fingleton. Comparing himself with swing bowlers he said:

    I thought I was at a disadvantage in having to spin the ball when I could see bowlers doing the same by simply placing the ball in their hand and letting go; but I soon learned that the advantage was with me because by spinning the ball, if the wicket would take spin, the ball would come back against the swing ... I may say I did not bowl a ball but that I had to spin, and is, to my way of thinking, the reason for the success I attained.​

    from Chapter 17, "S.F. Barnes: leg-spin, off-spin, swerve and pace"
    The Bowler's Art
    Brian Wilkins
     
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  20. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    Thank you. Flexion, not extension, of the wrist, therefore a leg cutter, not a leg break. Point proven, I think. I accept your apology.
     
Put it out there