Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by Richard the Third, Feb 19, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. Robert Walker

    Robert Walker New Member

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    At the moment I seem to be bowling a lot of bowls with more over spin than wanted, I seem to be cocking my wrists too much. Any help?
     
  2. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Hi Robert, something I like to do is practice spinning the ball back to myself, this is so you can copy that feeling when you bowl the ball and then you will have complete side spin. Also you can hold both hands out so you can see both palms, have the ball in your bowling hand, and then flick the ball from the bowling hand to the other hand, you should now see the back of your bowling hand. One last thing, the angle of the wrist for a leg spinner is so you can see the back of your hand, as Warnie says.

    Hope this helped and all the best.
     
  3. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Man when you find the solution to this one let me know :D

    I am still very much working on this. One thing I like doing is practising vertical spinning tosses, i.e. not hand to hand but straight up and down. The idea is to get the ball spinning about a vertical axis. If you can translate the same to a horizontally delivered ball, that would then be a pure leg break.

    Peter Philpott advises trying to deliver a 'backspun' legbreak, i.e. in practice I think it is totally impossible to produce the 'backspinner' but the result may well be a purer legbreak and Philpott maintains that practicing this hypothetical delivery helps as a technical exercise. It is certainly worth trying. I think it may reveal a desirable finishing position for the wrist and way that the ball dances from the fingertips.

    Many of the great legspin bowlers seem to have stock balls which are heavily overspun, so you are in good company.

    If I can produce heavily spinning 30 degree legbreaks accurately and consistently, I think I'll be quite happy. I've come to realise that the heavy spin is the most important due to the flight and kick off the pitch and getting a wide seam angle would be lovely but not so important.

    Keep practising!
     
  4. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I don't think it translates like that, if I am interpreting correctly, this would be a ball delivered with the axis of spin perpendicular, not parallel, to the direction of travel.
     
  5. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Adam Zampa's stock delivery is a flat topspinner (wrongly refered to as a flipper by the likes of Ravi Shastri on a regular basis). Plenty of T20 legspin involves those overspin deliveries.

    That said, the Afghanistani legspinner Rashid Khan has a very interesting action. His legspinner involves his hand dragging over and under the ball so the back of his hand is facing the batter at the point of release. It makes his googly virtually impossible to pick.

    In my experience, bowling with lots of overspin when trying to bowl with sidespin comes down to upper body rotation. If you are not rotated enough at the point of release, you will struggle to put sidespin on the ball.
     
  6. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Works for me, I got that from Dave's old video a while ago.
     
  7. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I honestly believe this is not practising a legbreak but a topspinner.

    I think I understand the idea, it's that if you are at the bowling crease facing square towards the midwicket boundary, then spinning the ball towards your chest is 'leg spin' were it to pitch that way down the track.

    But the issue is that everything changes once you are propelling the ball forwards. I don't think one can realistically think of this spinning action combined with a general bowling delivery to produce a square legbreak.

    Please forgive my scepticism but if you are really achieving wide seam angles I think you have achieved some further insight other than that which would be readily derived from this exercise.
     
  8. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Perhaps I can elaborate:

    During the last few hundredths of a second of a delivery, there are large forces / acceleration being applied to the cricket ball to accelerate it around the circle created the bowling arm.

    Now when the ball is gripped in a spinning couple, it's stable. But during the last period of a spinning action, the ball is not held in a spinning couple, but governed by one finger / point of contact. It is not stable.

    This isn't much of an issue to control if you are spinning the ball hand-to-hand or back towards your chest. However in a real delivery, the ball has to be vigorously brought and accelerated around the circle created by the bowling arm.

    if you were try to exactly add the simple 'spin it back towards your chest' spinning action, as I understand it anyway, as soon as the index finger leaves the ball, the ball is going to fly out of the hand somewhere.

    Or at least, many hand actions which would spin a ball back towards the chest will not straightforwardly translate to an actual legspin release with a wide seam angle.
     
  9. The Edge Of Willow

    The Edge Of Willow Member

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    The forward momentum is actually partly what makes it work. Since the angles and forces involved make it more or less impossible to spin the ball right back towards yourself, you end up just pushing out and up around the ball. Whether you get a square leg-break depends your particular action, on just how far around you can flick your "wrist back towards your face," but getting a square leg break is often not the point of the exercise.

    For a lot of people, those struggling with overspinning everything, the point is just to get more sidespin, so they can get some break off the wicket when they want it. "Back towards yourself" is sort of an exaggeration used to break the habit of just rolling the fingers down and over the top of the ball.
     
  10. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Oh I understand this now. Bringing it as far around as it can go. It's a very similar idea to attempting Philpott's 'backspinner'

    apologies @TomBowler97
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  11. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    You can practice all types of releases from hand to hand by just moving the position of your arm. You can also practice spinning the ball back to yourself just like a wristspun backspinner. But of course, you can only bowl the backspin in this manner because doing so normally requires that you bend your arm massively. All other backspinning deliveries are just dragging your fingers down the back of a ball like a seam delivery. Putting any decent amount of revs on a wristspun backspinner is not legally possible.
     
  12. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    It would be perfectly legal! Just not physically possible.

    It's possible to produce a thumb-spun backspinning delivery though.
     
  13. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Well, yeah, I suppose if you don't change the bend of the elbow (ie you don't throw it), then it would be fine. As you say, it would be exceptionally awkward to do and probably impossible to do so accurately and consistently. Which is a shame because can you imagine how effective a wristspun backspinner would be? You can easily see why so many people talk about, even dream about, a genuine backspinner with big revs on it. Just not practical unfortunately.
     
  14. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    No worries mate!
     
  15. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Had a great practice the other day. Was throwing legbreaks from a short distance. Really working on the snap at the end of the release and getting more work than ever on the ball. Some really turning and moving strangely in the air. Accuracy another matter mind you.
     
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  16. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Had possibly my most encouraging practice ever. Just standing start stuff but really turning and it looked like I was getting some very wide seam angles. Not quite sure what was going on but I am sticking with it whatever it was. I was working on a straighter arm (I've been almost totally roundarm). The breakthrough happened when I relaxed about the straighter arm but concentrated on trying to follow through straight with the bowling arm (i.e. imagining coming through on the right side of the body. Trying to be relaxed as possible as well. I think that is so important.

    I'm enjoying this, takes patience but I really am improving.
     
  17. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    For me, the key thing is to be relaxed and having an uncluttered mind. Trying to focus on technical things when you are bowling makes bowling really difficult. It's a catch 22 situation because, at some point, you have to focus on and work on technical things. But there is no doubt that relaxing and not thinking about your action is fundamental to bowling well.
     
  18. Neville Young

    Neville Young Member

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    Absolutely correct CP. Your run up and delivery is something that should be performed on auto pilot. You shouldn't be thinking about it at all. All your mental processes should be devoted entirely to what ball you are intending to bowl and where you want the ball to land.
    I put up a post about batting routines because it is a vital part of learning how to bat and in continuing to bat well.
    It is just as important to bowlers. Everyone will have a different routine, there is no right or wrong routine it is simply what you have worked out that works best for you. Here is mine.
    I get the ball in my hand and check it for tears, scuffing etc. I apply spit to those areas if it is the good side of the ball and polish it really well. If it isn't I leave it alone. Always remember that you aren't the only bowler and having a good side to the ball will help to benefit the quick and medium pace bowlers in your side as well as providing a slightly different bounce and spin for the smoother and rougher sides.
    I mentally check the sort of shots the batsman has been playing for his previous shots and select the sort of ball that I think will get me a wicket or will help in setting a pattern that will enable me to get a wicket in the next couple of balls. It may be some other ball entirely, I might want him to remain at the same end at the end of an over or I might want to see if I can get him down the other end for whatever reason.
    I get to my mark fix the ball with the grip I want, for the ball I want to bowl. I pick the spot on the pitch that I want the ball to hit and mentally imagine bowling the perfect ball that lands exactly where I want it to land. I focus on that spot, begin my run up and I continue to focus on the spot where I want the ball to land and then deliver the ball. If your thoughts are on how to do your nun up and delivery then you won't be focusing on the ball you want to deliver.
    If you need to improve your run up and delivery, work on them at practice until they become something that you do without any conscious thought.
     
  19. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Absoluely. Routine is a massive part of the process. All a part of repeating the action. It's also very good for preventing you from rushing your bowling. That's something you see a lot from young bowlers when they are under pressure. They just try to get through the over as quickly as possible. Having a routine helps to prevent that a little bit.
     
  20. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    Indeed - the time for thinking about technical things is January to March. During the season you should stay in the present, think tactics not technique, and just try to enjoy your bowling.
     
Put it out there