Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by Richard the Third, Feb 19, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I will concede this point to you SLA if you will find me one such quote on the entire internet, or other sourced material that I can verify, that is not simply your own.
     
  2. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I have reported this post as abusive.
     
  3. Neville Young

    Neville Young Member

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  4. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    If SLA is correct, I wonder why we aren't telling our medium pacers to work on their leg cutters, bowl them as their stock balls, so they can become unplayable and take wickets at 16 point something in test matches.
     
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  5. Darth Spin

    Darth Spin Active Member

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    You sound like Alan Partridge.
     
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  6. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Had a friendly game yesterday. New captain, who shares a first name with me, and who I had bowled a nice googly to in the nets. Surprisingly he calls me up to bowl reasonably early on in the innings and gives me a four-over spell. I certainly didn't truly nail anything and it felt like an ordeal as I bowled weak and high down leg or wide on the offside or dragged it down. However, I bowled some passable straight stuff, one of which took a stumping. A googly took an inside edge (batsman over corrected) and the keeper managed to kick it up in the air and nearly caught by slip. I dropped a return catch of a short ball. People were very entertained, and it feels like my fundamentals are really improving, even if I haven't really relaxed and nailed it in a match yet.

    Does make a difference having an enthusiastic captain. I felt that bowling the drag downs or wides didn't really matter.

    Onwards!
     
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  7. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I tried one Barnes ball. That was one of the drag downs.
     
  8. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    Because we no longer play on uncovered pitches?

    Seriously, its not rocket science.
     
  9. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    Good luck with that. I've been subjected to racial abuse and threatened with physical violence on here, and they did nothing about that, so I don't suppose they're going to care a huge amount about you throwing your toys out of the pram.
     
  10. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    How are your basics? Have you at least read the Wilkins book that we've talked about on here about 100 times?
     
  11. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    You may quote from any book regardless of whether I have read it or not: what's the quote?
     
  12. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Accurate fast-medium to medium-pace leg-breaks were special enough on their own, but when we look at Barnes' hand, high above his head at the point of delivery, we can't help noticing how different it is from the numerous leg-spin bowlers photographed since then. Many writers have attested to this individuality. As if in royal command the wrist is straight or as in some photographs of Barnes, bent back, and the palm faces the batsman or a point above the batsman. No horizontal crooking or inward curling of the wrist here, but a rapid rotation of the forward-facing hand as if unscrewing something anti-clockwise from an imaginary ceiling above him, while at the same time imparting a violent leg-break flick with powerful fingers. Now we see that there was more to Barnes' high action than achieving height and bounce, important though these are.

    ...

    We give The Master the last word, taken from a letter he wrote to Jack Fingleton. Comparing himself with swing bowlers he said:

    I thought I was at a disadvantage in having to spin the ball when I could see bowlers doing the same by simply placing the ball in their hand and letting go; but I soon learned that the advantage was with me because by spinning the ball, if the wicket would take spin, the ball would come back against the swing ... I may say I did not bowl a ball but that I had to spin, and is, to my way of thinking, the reason for the success I attained.​

    from Chapter 17, "S.F. Barnes: leg-spin, off-spin, swerve and pace"
    The Bowler's Art
    Brian Wilkins
     
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  13. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    Thank you. Flexion, not extension, of the wrist, therefore a leg cutter, not a leg break. Point proven, I think. I accept your apology.
     
  14. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    On the contrary SLA, the point proven - comprehensively - is that Wilkins does not share your definition of a leg-cutter, and considers that Barnes bowled leg-breaks.
     
  15. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Had a brief net practice today. Standing start from 15 yards. Really struggled. I can bowl a topspinner with a high arm. At least, I think it's a high arm. Sometimes it breaks to leg unintentionally. No matter. But I can only bowl the big legbreaks from 10 o'clock, which I feel is too roundarm. When I bowl from 10 o'clock there's a really satisfying feeling of getting big spin on the ball, but I can't translate this to the higher arm, and it's inaccurate. I'm not quite sure which way to go. Maybe I need to video myself. Practice practice
     
  16. Chino#21

    Chino#21 Active Member

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    Yeah the problem with bowling with such a round arm is that it could lead to some seriously wide drag downs if the ball doesn't come out right. But as long as you are spinning the ball and bowling it accurately I don't think it's necessary to work on your action. Every time you want to change something in your action you interrupt the muscle memory you've been building up. But it's a good idea to look at a video. It's very difficult to determine exactly how low/high your arm is while bowling if you don't have a visual reference.
     
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  17. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    ok I have to get used to videos so I took my phone down to the nets. One pace off maybe 18-20 yards. Any constructive observations welcome

     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  18. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I enjoyed also forgetting about pitching the ball and just trying to send the ball into the back netting from a comfortable distance. Nice because you can just focus on 'zip'.
     
  19. Neville Young

    Neville Young Member

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    http://www.thesundayleader.lk/2013/04/21/sid-barnes-the-greatest-bowler/
    Arlott wrote, “a right-arm fast-medium bowler with the accuracy, spin and resource of a slow bowler”. Barnes held the ball with his index, middle and ring fingers along and touching the seam, and he could bowl off breaks and leg breaks without much change of action – but that the leg-break was his usual and most devastating delivery. Both as mentioned earlier were bowled with his palm facing the batter. A front of hand delivery would usually imply that Barnes bowled leg-cutters – a delivery in which spin is imparted by cutting the fingers across the left hand side of the ball as it is released. Barnes denied in interviews that he bowled leg-cutters – he said that he spun the ball. So Barnes must have flicked the ball with his fingers. Pictures show Barnes had his ring finger curled along the seam so as to flick a leg break off his index finger. Not an easy thing to do when bowling medium quick.
     
  20. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    From what I've seen, heard and believe of this action myself, Barnes definitely bowled leg-cutters. Frankly, I think it is totally impossible to bowl a genuine legspinner at anything quicker than 60mph. The man himself said he bowled with spin. The distinction between cutters and spinners is simply the amount of revolutions imparted and, as far as I am concerned, at the sort of speeds that Barnes bowled he was putting small amounts of revolutions on the ball - producing something much more in the cutter category. Bowling on uncovered pitches would have meant that a small amount of movement at 75mph-80mph is likely and with swing in and movement off the pitch, you have an incredibly effective delivery.

    As far as I am concerned, if it is possible to put big revs on the ball at 75mph-80mph, then there would have been examples of this type of bowling other than just one man - not matter how skilled he was.

    I suspect it's a case of a very skilful bowler making full use of uncovered pitches.
     
Put it out there