Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

My kids cricket got washed out last week so probably only 4 games left if they dont make the semi finals. He is ready to roll, been doing 8 overs nearly every day in the middle with me keeping. Or bowling to me or some kids in the nets. Hope to catch a few rusty batsman this weekend.

Bit like fishing, you let the batsman get them selves out most of the time you bowl legspin.

 

[D.K]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Kudos to you fellers on this thread. Been having a little bit of a read and your all pretty passionate about the game.

Hopefully see a couple more of you on the other boards especially when the Ashes come around shortly.

Keep up the good work

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

You blokes haven't been bowling enough over the winter, that's your problem.

says the bloke from Sydney!!!!

i know that i needed to do a lot more work over the winter than i have, its February already and probably only 10 weeks or so before matches start! so far all my plans of getting into shape and practicing hard all winter havent even got started, so ive got catching up to do already (i might join the gym, its £300/year at the moment if you pay a year up front, which isnt too extortionate. and it will force me to get into shape because i hate wasting money lol).

the problem with living in England is that the weather outside is either cold or wet, or both (or worse, 3 feet deep in snow!). there has literally been no suitable occasions to practice from the middle of December until about a week ago, which has been very frustrating. now its freezing cold or wet, but if its dry then at least there are opportunities to get some outdoor practice in at the weekends. and i can get video then as well.

at the indoor net sessions there is always one net lane that doesnt get used at all, so practicing individually isnt an issue. next week im not batting at all, just 90 mins of individual bowling practice, and if i find some rhythm then il have a go at some batsmen as well, but that isnt too important to me.

im just not ready to bowl at batsmen yet, and nothing good is ever going to come of it this early in the season. i think i lose sight of the fact that ive only been bowling 8 months, and most players wouldnt consider themselves ready to face first XI batsmen for at least a few years. im just impatient. yesterday i only bowled at first and second XI batsmen, which was even more of a bad idea.

one thing that has me very puzzled - theres this batsman at the club who is quite short (maybe about 5'6"), plays very deep in his crease, NEVER comes forwards, and plays almost exclusively off the back foot. if you pitch it short then it gives him easy pickings. pitch it full and he still plays off the back foot and finds it easy (but he has to defend more). pitch it even fuller and he just plays it full toss (no length works). i literally cant find a single delivery that troubles him. and ive bowled some excellent balls at him in the past. hes excellent at knowing when to defend and when to attack, and even when he attacks its never overly aggressive. he was pulling me down the wicket off the back foot yesterday on balls that pitched outside leg and bounced over waist height with turn. it was ridiculous, most batsmen would have had a nightmare against the same deliveries (the left hander did!). pitch anything inline with the stumps though and he cuts it instead. i cant win. i tried a flipper and it hit the side of the net about 10 feet high halfway down the pitch lol. so i quickly gave that up, im so rusty. some of the shots that he plays off the back foot are the kind that most players would try to play forwards to (those tempting length deliveries) and find an edge. the fact that he plays so deep in his crease means he has time to stay back and cut, but even an increase in pace doesnt seem to bother him. im at a complete loss.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Not much about leg spin here, but nice easy drills here. Might not be the right thread, but here goes Queensland Cricket - First Innings - Activity Formations and Progressions

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

You blokes haven't been bowling enough over the winter, that's your problem. Not your fault, I know, but you are going to have to put in some long hours come spring.

You're right - but it's been a lot colder this year what with the worse snow for 20 + years, I think November was one of the wettest Novembers on record as well and cold with it! Currently through January it's not got much above 0 degrees centigrade. They're saying that weekend my bring double figures with a balmy 10 degrees centigrade, so it'll be shirts and shorts and start to work on our tans with a good hour or so with some bowling!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Kudos to you fellers on this thread. Been having a little bit of a read and your all pretty passionate about the game.

Hopefully see a couple more of you on the other boards especially when the Ashes come around shortly.

Keep up the good work

Cheers mate, no doubt we'll branch out a bit - it'll be helpful if they have Stevie Smith in for the Aussies and Adil Rashid for our mob, that'll entice us no doubt.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

says the bloke from Sydney!!!!

i know that i needed to do a lot more work over the winter than i have, its February already and probably only 10 weeks or so before matches start! so far all my plans of getting into shape and practicing hard all winter havent even got started, so ive got catching up to do already (i might join the gym, its £300/year at the moment if you pay a year up front, which isnt too extortionate. and it will force me to get into shape because i hate wasting money lol).

the problem with living in England is that the weather outside is either cold or wet, or both (or worse, 3 feet deep in snow!). there has literally been no suitable occasions to practice from the middle of December until about a week ago, which has been very frustrating. now its freezing cold or wet, but if its dry then at least there are opportunities to get some outdoor practice in at the weekends. and i can get video then as well.

at the indoor net sessions there is always one net lane that doesnt get used at all, so practicing individually isnt an issue. next week im not batting at all, just 90 mins of individual bowling practice, and if i find some rhythm then il have a go at some batsmen as well, but that isnt too important to me.

im just not ready to bowl at batsmen yet, and nothing good is ever going to come of it this early in the season. i think i lose sight of the fact that ive only been bowling 8 months, and most players wouldnt consider themselves ready to face first XI batsmen for at least a few years. im just impatient. yesterday i only bowled at first and second XI batsmen, which was even more of a bad idea.

one thing that has me very puzzled - theres this batsman at the club who is quite short (maybe about 5'6"), plays very deep in his crease, NEVER comes forwards, and plays almost exclusively off the back foot. if you pitch it short then it gives him easy pickings. pitch it full and he still plays off the back foot and finds it easy (but he has to defend more). pitch it even fuller and he just plays it full toss (no length works). i literally cant find a single delivery that troubles him. and ive bowled some excellent balls at him in the past. hes excellent at knowing when to defend and when to attack, and even when he attacks its never overly aggressive. he was pulling me down the wicket off the back foot yesterday on balls that pitched outside leg and bounced over waist height with turn. it was ridiculous, most batsmen would have had a nightmare against the same deliveries (the left hander did!). pitch anything inline with the stumps though and he cuts it instead. i cant win. i tried a flipper and it hit the side of the net about 10 feet high halfway down the pitch lol. so i quickly gave that up, im so rusty. some of the shots that he plays off the back foot are the kind that most players would try to play forwards to (those tempting length deliveries) and find an edge. the fact that he plays so deep in his crease means he has time to stay back and cut, but even an increase in pace doesnt seem to bother him. im at a complete loss.

This is where your Wrong Un would be useful or your slider surely? A long sequence of Leg Breaks to settle him into a sense of security and then either of the above fuller ?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I hate those blokes that go right back in their crease. The flipper and slider came into being to tackle those guys. Remember warne on that masterclass recently he was showing how to bat against spinners and one way he suggested was to go right back and play off the back foot. Some blokes play like that because they cant bat but a good backfoot specialist can be hard to bowl to when you are getting bounce.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I hate those blokes that go right back in their crease. The flipper and slider came into being to tackle those guys. Remember warne on that masterclass recently he was showing how to bat against spinners and one way he suggested was to go right back and play off the back foot. Some blokes play like that because they cant bat but a good backfoot specialist can be hard to bowl to when you are getting bounce.

Is this kind of batting going to get runs though? In our 40-50 overs club games it's kind of vital to get a run off of every ball?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Is this kind of batting going to get runs though? In our 40-50 overs club games it's kind of vital to get a run off of every ball?

They generally dont score as heavy but can be hard to remove. In a game you have to bowl on one side of the wicket and set your field to that line. Vary the pace. They usually nudge you around with soft hands or cut and square drive. Cant give them any width, except as variation.

They get off the strike and dont let you work on them. But if you have a good slider or flipper they can become your bunnies. I used to bowl the odd high full toss at their pads and expect a catch back anywhere from mid-on to mid- off.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

They generally dont score as heavy but can be hard to remove. In a game you have to bowl on one side of the wicket and set your field to that line. Vary the pace. They usually nudge you around with soft hands or cut and square drive. Cant give them any width, except as variation.

They get off the strike and dont let you work on them. But if you have a good slider or flipper they can become your bunnies. I used to bowl the odd high full toss at their pads and expect a catch back anywhere from mid-on to mid- off.

The odd full toss as a tactic sounds like a good idea against not so adept batsmen.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

The odd full toss as a tactic sounds like a good idea against not so adept batsmen.

A full toss halfway up the legs often forces the straight bat correct type batsman to hit a catch in front of the wicket. In their attempt to play a straight bat they find themselves hitting in the air between mid on and mid off.

Neville Cardus wrote a piece about grimmett in the 30,s where he said he never saw Clarrie bowl a full toss. The next test Grimmett had Hammond lbw to a full toss and after play grimmett caught up with cardus and told him "See, i can bowl a full toss!". Arthur Mailley definately saw the full toss as a wicket taker in the right circumstance, but it has to be set up.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I hate those blokes that go right back in their crease. The flipper and slider came into being to tackle those guys. Remember warne on that masterclass recently he was showing how to bat against spinners and one way he suggested was to go right back and play off the back foot. Some blokes play like that because they cant bat but a good backfoot specialist can be hard to bowl to when you are getting bounce.

the flipper was my first thought, i just couldnt bowl it yesterday (i tried once, and it went very wrong, so it wasnt worth trying twice). i havent even attempted a slider yet this year but think it would suit him quite well because it loses pace off the bounce and sits up! the more i think about it the more i realise that the net sessions are severely hindering me. it would actually be better not to practice at all than to practice at group nets.

im going to devote all my time next week in the spare net. if that isnt available, or if i cant get my bowling working at all then im just going to get some batting practice and leave the bowling alone. bowling practice needs to happen in a quiet net on my own for now i think until i can remind myself of what i was doing 4 months ago.

 

[D.K]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Cheers mate, no doubt we'll branch out a bit - it'll be helpful if they have Stevie Smith in for the Aussies and Adil Rashid for our mob, that'll entice us no doubt.

Ill email the selectors and get them to pick him

Steve Smith is playing the 20-20s for Australia coming up. But is a bit away from playing test match cricket. Very raw player

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Ill email the selectors and get them to pick him

Steve Smith is playing the 20-20s for Australia coming up. But is a bit away from playing test match cricket. Very raw player

Terry Jenner called him a baby as far as legspin goes, a little harsh, and reckons it would be a mistake to debut at test level, he would be the youngest leggie to bowl for Aus if he was picked right now. Terry Jenner: 'Dot-ball cricket is hurting spin' | Page 2 | Cricinfo.com I reckon the 117 kmh flipper he beat Warnie with and wrapped his pads up in that all stars game in Brisbane a few months ago was a season highlight. Impressed warnie that's for sure.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

the flipper was my first thought, i just couldnt bowl it yesterday (i tried once, and it went very wrong, so it wasnt worth trying twice). i havent even attempted a slider yet this year but think it would suit him quite well because it loses pace off the bounce and sits up! the more i think about it the more i realise that the net sessions are severely hindering me. it would actually be better not to practice at all than to practice at group nets.

im going to devote all my time next week in the spare net. if that isnt available, or if i cant get my bowling working at all then im just going to get some batting practice and leave the bowling alone. bowling practice needs to happen in a quiet net on my own for now i think until i can remind myself of what i was doing 4 months ago.

Most of the young leggies i have seen around here this season need to spend more time bowling to a net without a batsman. Some of them never do they reckon, and it shows. And most need to be more roundarm than they are as well.

Timing the release of the slider is critical, as you know, you will often get the batsman playing too early if you do it right. Not much point trying out too many variations in a net line-up though is there? Dont throw the kitchen sink at them yet, just keep looping up legspinners and topspinners.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Most of the young leggies i have seen around here this season need to spend more time bowling to a net without a batsman. Some of them never do they reckon, and it shows. And most need to be more roundarm than they are as well.

Timing the release of the slider is critical, as you know, you will often get the batsman playing too early if you do it right. Not much point trying out too many variations in a net line-up though is there? Dont throw the kitchen sink at them yet, just keep looping up legspinners and topspinners.

its concerning that clubs dont offer bowling-only net sessions. as you say, the queued up bowlers method is favouring the batsman, its all about improving batting technique and bowlers just keeping themselves loose. no technique improvements are ever likely to come from this for a bowler unless they have incredible focus and can ignore the batsman completely. its even more worrying that it happens at youth level though. i am at least still roundarm. im uncompromising in my method - i refuse to conform to the dot-ball mentality, id rather not play than be dictated to by the opposing batsmen and a negative captain. theres just no fun in it for me and realistically im never likely to play beyond average club level, so if its not fun then whats the point?

as for the slider - it might get this guy playing at it early, but he really waits until super late to play any kind of shot (hence mostly cut shots or fine tickles down the leg side). in fairness, a slider at the stumps would have to be played at earlier because it offers no width and its going to get LBW or bowled otherwise. but im just not that consistent!

i like to try and bowl to a plan in the nets once ive figured out a batsmans strengths and weaknesses. again, its stupid because i need to find some form first (once ive found form this makes more sense). but il move around the crease, over the wicket, round the wicket. primarily leg breaks, but once i find my variations again il use them for sure. nets against batsmen are match practice in my eyes. whereas nets on my own are technique practice. i find that i cant adjust my technique when a batsman is swinging at every ball. not least because most deliveries get hit before you see what they are going to do (e.g. how much turn and bounce they get). on monday my sole thought really was to make sure that i flighted it well to try and avoid the drag downs. length was causing more problems than anything else, and keeping the batsmen playing defensively. the same went for the offies. all they needed to do was find a good length and they looked threatening, without turn. however, this was primarily the dot ball mentality dictating the tactics, because nobody was taking wickets without turn. whenever a ball turned on a good length it caused major problems for all the batsmen bar maybe 1 or 2. even my awful efforts had a couple of batsmen at sea with turn and bounce (the lefty in particular).

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

its concerning that clubs dont offer bowling-only net sessions. as you say, the queued up bowlers method is favouring the batsman, its all about improving batting technique and bowlers just keeping themselves loose. no technique improvements are ever likely to come from this for a bowler unless they have incredible focus and can ignore the batsman completely. its even more worrying that it happens at youth level though. i am at least still roundarm. im uncompromising in my method - i refuse to conform to the dot-ball mentality, id rather not play than be dictated to by the opposing batsmen and a negative captain. theres just no fun in it for me and realistically im never likely to play beyond average club level, so if its not fun then whats the point?

as for the slider - it might get this guy playing at it early, but he really waits until super late to play any kind of shot (hence mostly cut shots or fine tickles down the leg side). in fairness, a slider at the stumps would have to be played at earlier because it offers no width and its going to get LBW or bowled otherwise. but im just not that consistent!

i like to try and bowl to a plan in the nets once ive figured out a batsmans strengths and weaknesses. again, its stupid because i need to find some form first (once ive found form this makes more sense). but il move around the crease, over the wicket, round the wicket. primarily leg breaks, but once i find my variations again il use them for sure. nets against batsmen are match practice in my eyes. whereas nets on my own are technique practice. i find that i cant adjust my technique when a batsman is swinging at every ball. not least because most deliveries get hit before you see what they are going to do (e.g. how much turn and bounce they get). on monday my sole thought really was to make sure that i flighted it well to try and avoid the drag downs. length was causing more problems than anything else, and keeping the batsmen playing defensively. the same went for the offies. all they needed to do was find a good length and they looked threatening, without turn. however, this was primarily the dot ball mentality dictating the tactics, because nobody was taking wickets without turn. whenever a ball turned on a good length it caused major problems for all the batsmen bar maybe 1 or 2. even my awful efforts had a couple of batsmen at sea with turn and bounce (the lefty in particular).

My sons team have played 11 games. 8 losses after 8 net sessions on the thursday before. 2 wins and 1 narrow loss (1 run) after no nets but a practise game out in the middle. on the thursday.

The coach just lets them line up and bowl whithout pulling them up on technique so they go backwards in some respects. They are actually practising bowling wides and no balls!. Just lazy coaching. Gives me the ***** so I dont watch anymore.

Grimmett was only half joking in his first book where he reckons bowlers should get together, jack up, and boycott most of these net sessions. Being positive he used the net session as a chance to fox a bit. He saw them as cages containing subjects he could experiment with.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

As a Wrist Spinner I think you have to take what happens in the nets with a pinch of salt. As Macca has just said with regards Grimmetts comments on caged subjects, you've got to go with that kind of frame of mind but also realise that as caged subjects they're not going to be acting as they would in their normal environment. I think on some days you can go with a bit of a plan and work on some aspect of your bowling, but as Jim and I have said you can't get a rythmn going. The blokes at my club make me laugh along with a comment the coach made "Make sure the numbers are even in the nets so that you can have a breather in between balls" and the truth is they need it and they're for the most part 20 years younger than me!

On your own is the best way with a set of stumps or some kind of target and a bucket of cheap balls. Or maybe with a leggie at the other end and bowling back and forth.

 

[Spiderlounge]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

perhaps if a club has several nets they could use one with bowlers bowling to a wicketkeeper - Keepers need practice too, and particularly with leg spinners if the keeper can learn to read the bowler's delivery it could lead to more stumpings in matches.