Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
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someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Does this mean this bloke plays for the Western Australia State team under 17's? If so that's like playing at County level here in Essex - that's like one or two steps away from having a chance at playing at Test Level if you're good enough!!
Does this mean this bloke plays for the Western Australia State team under 17's? If so that's like playing at County level here in Essex - that's like one or two steps away from having a chance at playing at Test Level if you're good enough!!
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
It sounds like he has been selected for a state u/17 training squad, maybe over the winter. He may have attended a trial and was selected there. Maybe he was picked for the squad on reputation and did not need to trial. Sometimes they select people outside that train on squad anyway because some blokes play football or something else. I may be wrong but whatever the case he must have a bit of talent as far as cricket goes to even get that far.
I am just checking out my sons draw online and it seems someone has stuffed up and the upshot is his team seems to be in too high a division compared to their talent.
It sounds like he has been selected for a state u/17 training squad, maybe over the winter. He may have attended a trial and was selected there. Maybe he was picked for the squad on reputation and did not need to trial. Sometimes they select people outside that train on squad anyway because some blokes play football or something else. I may be wrong but whatever the case he must have a bit of talent as far as cricket goes to even get that far.
I am just checking out my sons draw online and it seems someone has stuffed up and the upshot is his team seems to be in too high a division compared to their talent.
shuey_cricket
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Boys i am of the female variety. So im not the next shane warne!
Boys i am of the female variety. So im not the next shane warne!
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Ah! Sorry Shuey - that's even better we've got a female rep on the wrist spin thread now!! Surely that means you're well on your way to representing Australia?
Ah! Sorry Shuey - that's even better we've got a female rep on the wrist spin thread now!! Surely that means you're well on your way to representing Australia?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Sorry lads and Lasses my input over the next few months is going to tale off a bit as I'm studying for a teaching qualification. I'll chip in when I can but nowhere as frequently as I have been, but rest assured if I get any spare daylight hours (which I will have to make way for otherwise I'll have a breakdown) I'll be bowling Leg Breaks.
Dave
Sorry lads and Lasses my input over the next few months is going to tale off a bit as I'm studying for a teaching qualification. I'll chip in when I can but nowhere as frequently as I have been, but rest assured if I get any spare daylight hours (which I will have to make way for otherwise I'll have a breakdown) I'll be bowling Leg Breaks.
Dave
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Lucky the all girl team in my kids comp is now playing in the all female comp, they were full of state reps and with there 2 year age advantage they were almost impossible for the boys to beat.
If the draw for this year stands, my sons' team is playing in too high a grade. I reckon my kid plus maybe 3 others are fully up to it. Someone at the club has made a mistake and entered them in the wrong division.
If it goes ahead it will change how we will approach the season. The standard of batting he will confront will be much higher than he had been planning on.
Now we had a long bowl yesterday and i know he is bowling good at the moment. So many things have improved since last season but the best thing is he has moved his line/aim over from leg to middle stump.
I know if he pitches outside leg now it will be a big legbreak, I can even tell before he lets go because of how he really cocks his wrist and elbow. Rather than try and bowl that every ball and hit the stumps he is more likely to stray on the offside slightly , which has made his bowling more dangerous. He is having lots more success in the nets already this season.
Lucky the all girl team in my kids comp is now playing in the all female comp, they were full of state reps and with there 2 year age advantage they were almost impossible for the boys to beat.
If the draw for this year stands, my sons' team is playing in too high a grade. I reckon my kid plus maybe 3 others are fully up to it. Someone at the club has made a mistake and entered them in the wrong division.
If it goes ahead it will change how we will approach the season. The standard of batting he will confront will be much higher than he had been planning on.
Now we had a long bowl yesterday and i know he is bowling good at the moment. So many things have improved since last season but the best thing is he has moved his line/aim over from leg to middle stump.
I know if he pitches outside leg now it will be a big legbreak, I can even tell before he lets go because of how he really cocks his wrist and elbow. Rather than try and bowl that every ball and hit the stumps he is more likely to stray on the offside slightly , which has made his bowling more dangerous. He is having lots more success in the nets already this season.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
What's his captain like - is he okay with having a spinner in the team and will he let him see out his overs or will it be a case of if he's not taking wickets he'll be pulled off bowling duty for that game?
macca;369044 said:
What's his captain like - is he okay with having a spinner in the team and will he let him see out his overs or will it be a case of if he's not taking wickets he'll be pulled off bowling duty for that game?
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
They haven't sorted out captain yet but i know the coach has a high opinion of my kids bowling. He was his indoor coach as well so he has seen him take a hat trick and a couple of 5/fors and witnessed the big spin he got there
someblokecalleddave;369055 said:
They haven't sorted out captain yet but i know the coach has a high opinion of my kids bowling. He was his indoor coach as well so he has seen him take a hat trick and a couple of 5/fors and witnessed the big spin he got there
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Just been looking at this. Have a look at how Warne's wrist really flicks when bowling to Chanderpaul at 1.19 secs in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MulSmW1VCB0&NR=1
Just been looking at this. Have a look at how Warne's wrist really flicks when bowling to Chanderpaul at 1.19 secs in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MulSmW1VCB0&NR=1
legspinenthusiast
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Hi - I am posting after a little while:
I had two questions:
1] Regarding the offspinning flipper, as I see from the video that Jim posted and my visualization is it not a regular offspinner with the ball rotation in forward motion? I understand that we imparted backspin on the ball but because it is with an angled seam for offspin it turns out that it is a regular offspinners delivery? Is my thinking correct or am I missing something?
2] Regarding the googly has anyone noticed that with your back of the hand you can even bowl the regular legspin? This happened to me quite a few times that I have it in my memory and can bowl legspin with the back of my hand facing the batsman. It is like how Dave explained in his flipper blog about wrong-wrong un. Dave do you use this or have noticed it?
If somebody could explain about all the various sliders as Dave did about flippers it would be very exciting and useful information.
I owe all my knowledge about legspin to this forum....
Hi - I am posting after a little while:
I had two questions:
1] Regarding the offspinning flipper, as I see from the video that Jim posted and my visualization is it not a regular offspinner with the ball rotation in forward motion? I understand that we imparted backspin on the ball but because it is with an angled seam for offspin it turns out that it is a regular offspinners delivery? Is my thinking correct or am I missing something?
2] Regarding the googly has anyone noticed that with your back of the hand you can even bowl the regular legspin? This happened to me quite a few times that I have it in my memory and can bowl legspin with the back of my hand facing the batsman. It is like how Dave explained in his flipper blog about wrong-wrong un. Dave do you use this or have noticed it?
If somebody could explain about all the various sliders as Dave did about flippers it would be very exciting and useful information.
I owe all my knowledge about legspin to this forum....
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
1. in the video i posted the off spinning flipper is actually just a back spinning flipper with a slight side angle on it. it definitely doesnt top spin although the seam rotation can play tricks on the eyes with the tape there. you just have to watch it carefully as it leaves the hand. a regular off spinner would more likely impart top spin than back spin and with typically fewer revolutions.
the off spinning flipper that i can now bowl which is far superior has more side spin on it, but i think it still back spins slightly. top spin on a flipper is about as hard as it gets, i can do it over a very short distance but not 22 yards, not even close.
2. my attempts at a wrong'un come out as leg breaks. i twist the shoulder and the wrist, but just before they release the ball they revert back to a leg break, the end result being a very large turning square leg break that probably looks a little like a wrong'un to a batsman. i cant purposely do it though, its just that i cant bowl a wrong'un.
i may do a slider video unless Dave beats me to it. the ones to cover are the 2 dragging fingers behind the ball (seam square, seam straight), round-the-loop, and the straight seam leg break (which still turns on grippy wickets, it only works on wickets that arent turning much).
i reckon that with a few discoveries ive made lately i can bowl the round-the-loop slider so far around the loop that its actually an off break lol. its something i plan to try at practice this evening if my bowling is working ok.
legspinenthusiast;369315 said:
1. in the video i posted the off spinning flipper is actually just a back spinning flipper with a slight side angle on it. it definitely doesnt top spin although the seam rotation can play tricks on the eyes with the tape there. you just have to watch it carefully as it leaves the hand. a regular off spinner would more likely impart top spin than back spin and with typically fewer revolutions.
the off spinning flipper that i can now bowl which is far superior has more side spin on it, but i think it still back spins slightly. top spin on a flipper is about as hard as it gets, i can do it over a very short distance but not 22 yards, not even close.
2. my attempts at a wrong'un come out as leg breaks. i twist the shoulder and the wrist, but just before they release the ball they revert back to a leg break, the end result being a very large turning square leg break that probably looks a little like a wrong'un to a batsman. i cant purposely do it though, its just that i cant bowl a wrong'un.
i may do a slider video unless Dave beats me to it. the ones to cover are the 2 dragging fingers behind the ball (seam square, seam straight), round-the-loop, and the straight seam leg break (which still turns on grippy wickets, it only works on wickets that arent turning much).
i reckon that with a few discoveries ive made lately i can bowl the round-the-loop slider so far around the loop that its actually an off break lol. its something i plan to try at practice this evening if my bowling is working ok.
legspinenthusiast
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
When I meant topspin i meant what you call side spin. In my mind there are only two types of spin forward and backward. Side spin is just forward spin with the seam at some specific angle. I know that it is difficult to give an angle out but the biggest legspin that I usually find is with around 30-45degrees of seam angle. Is this way of describing side spin correct? Because for me it gets very confusing with the side spin and over spin terms used simulataneously.
Can you describe the way you bowl your new offspinning flipper?
I can bowl a good wrong'un but this delivery of wrong wrong'un is playing in my mind a lot. I just want to understand if this is not a fluke due to incorrect movements.
Yes, I understand that you are imparting backspin to the ball, but in the ideal scenario your seam should not be upright and be 90 degrees to the video if you are bowling offspinning flipper. In that case it is like a regular offspinner imparting spin to the ball? and for the batsmen it is side spin.Jim2109;369316 said:
When I meant topspin i meant what you call side spin. In my mind there are only two types of spin forward and backward. Side spin is just forward spin with the seam at some specific angle. I know that it is difficult to give an angle out but the biggest legspin that I usually find is with around 30-45degrees of seam angle. Is this way of describing side spin correct? Because for me it gets very confusing with the side spin and over spin terms used simulataneously.
Can you describe the way you bowl your new offspinning flipper?
I can bowl a good wrong'un but this delivery of wrong wrong'un is playing in my mind a lot. I just want to understand if this is not a fluke due to incorrect movements.
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
i can see what you are saying with regards the spin. its easier to break everything down into 2 directions though. side spin and forward spin.
e.g. a 45 degree leg break would have an equal amount of side spin and over spin. a top spinner is all overspin. a square leg break is all side spin. a perfect flipper/slider is all back spin.
for the maximum off spin from the off-spun flipper, sure, id like the seam to be square. have you tried bowling it square as a flipper though? lol. thats what im aiming for, achieving it is something else entirely!! i think ive got it closer now but its never going to be completely square, its near on impossible to do consistently.
also there is then the complication of back spin giving more turn, but thats just going to confuse issues.
what i end up with is a back spinning flipper that has a seam angle of about 10-20 degrees pointing towards the slips. just enough to get it to deviate. thats whats in the video anyway. i can get it turning more now, and until i get video i have no idea where the seam is.
as for describing it, i honestly cant, i dont know what happens to the wrist once it goes above my eyeline. i need video which i may or may not get this side of next year. the weather is getting worse and colder, and its getting dark earlier. im taking the camera with me to practice tonight, but i doubt il get any video. im more concerned with practicing my bowling, if im bowling really well then i might get some video of the flipper variations because i want to see how im doing it.
i can see what you are saying with regards the spin. its easier to break everything down into 2 directions though. side spin and forward spin.
e.g. a 45 degree leg break would have an equal amount of side spin and over spin. a top spinner is all overspin. a square leg break is all side spin. a perfect flipper/slider is all back spin.
for the maximum off spin from the off-spun flipper, sure, id like the seam to be square. have you tried bowling it square as a flipper though? lol. thats what im aiming for, achieving it is something else entirely!! i think ive got it closer now but its never going to be completely square, its near on impossible to do consistently.
also there is then the complication of back spin giving more turn, but thats just going to confuse issues.
what i end up with is a back spinning flipper that has a seam angle of about 10-20 degrees pointing towards the slips. just enough to get it to deviate. thats whats in the video anyway. i can get it turning more now, and until i get video i have no idea where the seam is.
as for describing it, i honestly cant, i dont know what happens to the wrist once it goes above my eyeline. i need video which i may or may not get this side of next year. the weather is getting worse and colder, and its getting dark earlier. im taking the camera with me to practice tonight, but i doubt il get any video. im more concerned with practicing my bowling, if im bowling really well then i might get some video of the flipper variations because i want to see how im doing it.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
No, I do the opposite, if I bowl out of the front of the hand I naturally do something mid action that produces a wrong un (Googly) hence the reason I'm desperate to get one of these high speed cameras to film what it is that I do. You might find that as some point you flick the ball in a manner that produces Leg Spin? It's the case that some people no matter what they try and do they just cannot bowl a ball that produces a Wrong Un - it may be the case that your action is of that type. I think you need to be very careful if at some point you decide to add the wrong un to your repetoire as if you over do it you could end up like me!
legspinenthusiast;369315 said:
No, I do the opposite, if I bowl out of the front of the hand I naturally do something mid action that produces a wrong un (Googly) hence the reason I'm desperate to get one of these high speed cameras to film what it is that I do. You might find that as some point you flick the ball in a manner that produces Leg Spin? It's the case that some people no matter what they try and do they just cannot bowl a ball that produces a Wrong Un - it may be the case that your action is of that type. I think you need to be very careful if at some point you decide to add the wrong un to your repetoire as if you over do it you could end up like me!
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Sliders are not my strong point. I can't do the Philpott-esque 'Big Flick' Slider but I can do the Warney fingers down the back of a cross seamed ball. Like a seamers delivery holding it 2 up 2 down with the seam cross ways. Incdentally Stuart Broad bowls these as he likes the inconsistency of the bounce caused by the seam sometimes hitting the deck and other times not.
Jim2109;369316 said:
Sliders are not my strong point. I can't do the Philpott-esque 'Big Flick' Slider but I can do the Warney fingers down the back of a cross seamed ball. Like a seamers delivery holding it 2 up 2 down with the seam cross ways. Incdentally Stuart Broad bowls these as he likes the inconsistency of the bounce caused by the seam sometimes hitting the deck and other times not.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
I reckon that if you've got your own version of the wrong - wrong un and it sounds like you have, don't try and adapt it, leave it as it is. If your shoulder is dipping and the back of the hand comes over I reckon 95% of batsmen would see that as a Wrong Un coming and then if it breaks like a Leggie you might have em all at sea. Sounds useful as well against a Left hander?
legspinenthusiast;369321 said:
I reckon that if you've got your own version of the wrong - wrong un and it sounds like you have, don't try and adapt it, leave it as it is. If your shoulder is dipping and the back of the hand comes over I reckon 95% of batsmen would see that as a Wrong Un coming and then if it breaks like a Leggie you might have em all at sea. Sounds useful as well against a Left hander?
legspinenthusiast
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
This wrong-wrong'un does not spin mucn may be 2 inches. But it would be a perfect delivery for a offstump (or may be middle) line where the batsmen is playing for wrong'un.
I would describe more if I can replicate it consistently in the next few weeks.
Has any one tried to throw the ball instead of bowling legspin? I usually start my bowling by throwing the ball (to warm up) and the amount of spin that I generate in that is 30% more than what I do in my actual bowling action. Though this is counter intuitive as in bowling action there is more hips,shoulder turn as well as momentum. The other big thing I noticed is when I throw the ball it is slower than the pace that I bowl with the bowling action? Any advice of how to keep the pace same but incorporate the same amount of spin as done while throwing?
yes, i certainly think it would be very useful to both left and right handed batsmen. Just to clarify I do bowl the googly and it certainly does rip.someblokecalleddave;369330 said:
This wrong-wrong'un does not spin mucn may be 2 inches. But it would be a perfect delivery for a offstump (or may be middle) line where the batsmen is playing for wrong'un.
I would describe more if I can replicate it consistently in the next few weeks.
Has any one tried to throw the ball instead of bowling legspin? I usually start my bowling by throwing the ball (to warm up) and the amount of spin that I generate in that is 30% more than what I do in my actual bowling action. Though this is counter intuitive as in bowling action there is more hips,shoulder turn as well as momentum. The other big thing I noticed is when I throw the ball it is slower than the pace that I bowl with the bowling action? Any advice of how to keep the pace same but incorporate the same amount of spin as done while throwing?
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
awesome, i got video of my off spinning flipper. theres good news and bad news...
good news - ive got a perfect 90 degree off spinning delivery with around 900rpm on the ball. it drifts like mad away from the batsman, then turns back in.
bad news - the pitch was really wet, wet enough that my feet were slipping, and i was barely getting leg breaks to turn, so none of these off breaks turned at all, they all went dead straight. the sun was in my eyes for about 90 mins driving me insane, then when it finally went behind the trees it was too dark to film. ive enhanced the video as best i can to try and make the ball visible. once it drops below the trees you cant even see it so ive cut the video short so it takes less time to upload lol.
so ive got a video online of a white ball with black tape around the seam, and black tape perpendicular to the seam. watch carefully as the ball leaves the hand, the ball rotates in an off-spinning manner with the seam upright, you are looking at the black tape perpendicular to the seam flashing around as it rotates.
YouTube - offspinflipper1
as for how its done, youve got to seriously cock the wrist on approach (i adjust my wrist to attempt to bowl a 45 degree overspun off-break flipper, and the end result is the 90 degrees. i reckon if i try to bowl a top spinner il get an overspun one instead!!), and the important thing is to get your weight forwards early and try to get your elbow high. this results in a slightly more round-arm action and the ball gets released quite late. the reason Grimmett had these variations down so well is because of his round arm action, it makes it easy to release the ball late which is essential to get the seam down. otherwise it comes out as a zooter (which is no bad thing, i LOVE the zooter. i want to see what it does on grass wickets when next season comes around. on the net surface its better than a flipper for zipping through low).
i find the accuracy on this delivery is about 80% on the stumps, or within 6" outside off. id gladly use it in a match tomorrow if i had one. its my favourite variation already. last week i had it turning back in 2-3 feet, it was silly.
awesome, i got video of my off spinning flipper. theres good news and bad news...
good news - ive got a perfect 90 degree off spinning delivery with around 900rpm on the ball. it drifts like mad away from the batsman, then turns back in.
bad news - the pitch was really wet, wet enough that my feet were slipping, and i was barely getting leg breaks to turn, so none of these off breaks turned at all, they all went dead straight. the sun was in my eyes for about 90 mins driving me insane, then when it finally went behind the trees it was too dark to film. ive enhanced the video as best i can to try and make the ball visible. once it drops below the trees you cant even see it so ive cut the video short so it takes less time to upload lol.
so ive got a video online of a white ball with black tape around the seam, and black tape perpendicular to the seam. watch carefully as the ball leaves the hand, the ball rotates in an off-spinning manner with the seam upright, you are looking at the black tape perpendicular to the seam flashing around as it rotates.
YouTube - offspinflipper1
as for how its done, youve got to seriously cock the wrist on approach (i adjust my wrist to attempt to bowl a 45 degree overspun off-break flipper, and the end result is the 90 degrees. i reckon if i try to bowl a top spinner il get an overspun one instead!!), and the important thing is to get your weight forwards early and try to get your elbow high. this results in a slightly more round-arm action and the ball gets released quite late. the reason Grimmett had these variations down so well is because of his round arm action, it makes it easy to release the ball late which is essential to get the seam down. otherwise it comes out as a zooter (which is no bad thing, i LOVE the zooter. i want to see what it does on grass wickets when next season comes around. on the net surface its better than a flipper for zipping through low).
i find the accuracy on this delivery is about 80% on the stumps, or within 6" outside off. id gladly use it in a match tomorrow if i had one. its my favourite variation already. last week i had it turning back in 2-3 feet, it was silly.
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