Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
i dont know a great deal about him, but ive seen him play for Lancashire on televised matches. cant say i really paid much attention, hes an established county player over here though and obviously a pretty good fast bowler to be playing for Lancs. although they do have Flintoff and Anderson almost permanently away on international duty.
water_boy;367407 said:
i dont know a great deal about him, but ive seen him play for Lancashire on televised matches. cant say i really paid much attention, hes an established county player over here though and obviously a pretty good fast bowler to be playing for Lancs. although they do have Flintoff and Anderson almost permanently away on international duty.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
There's some stuff on the internet about Newby - do a google search. Anyway some good news. It sounds as though the technician at work has ordered the 2 high speed digital compact cameras I was ranting about, so if they come in over the next week or so and the weather here in the UK holds out I'll be competing with Jim to come up with some youtube slow mo releases.
There's some stuff on the internet about Newby - do a google search. Anyway some good news. It sounds as though the technician at work has ordered the 2 high speed digital compact cameras I was ranting about, so if they come in over the next week or so and the weather here in the UK holds out I'll be competing with Jim to come up with some youtube slow mo releases.
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
awesome, it will be interesting to see someone elses action in slow motion as well so ive got something to compare to.
make sure you get plenty of shots of your wrong'un. its the one delivery i cant even get close to bowling and youve got it mastered. so im curious to see how its done!! im also curious to see what these cameras are capable of, especially at 1000fps. my slowest motion videos are resampled to essentially 960fps, but they miss out 3 of every 4 frames by comparison to a true 1000fps camera, but still give a very clear picture of what is happening. so seeing the extra frames, and also having the potential to slow it down even more to 2000fps (the same as the Sky Sports slow motion shots) will give the same kind of insight as the slow motion videos of Shane Warne on Youtube do. youll definitely be able to see the fingers gradually unfurling then as the ball is released.
someblokecalleddave;367585 said:
awesome, it will be interesting to see someone elses action in slow motion as well so ive got something to compare to.
make sure you get plenty of shots of your wrong'un. its the one delivery i cant even get close to bowling and youve got it mastered. so im curious to see how its done!! im also curious to see what these cameras are capable of, especially at 1000fps. my slowest motion videos are resampled to essentially 960fps, but they miss out 3 of every 4 frames by comparison to a true 1000fps camera, but still give a very clear picture of what is happening. so seeing the extra frames, and also having the potential to slow it down even more to 2000fps (the same as the Sky Sports slow motion shots) will give the same kind of insight as the slow motion videos of Shane Warne on Youtube do. youll definitely be able to see the fingers gradually unfurling then as the ball is released.
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
it should be entirely possible for Daves videos as well. it has nothing to do with the camera im using, but the software i processed it with afterwards. id imagine most good software is capable of it, i believe that even VirtualDub is (a free editing program that Dave is aware of). personally im using Sony Vegas and just added both video tracks and then set their opacity to about 60%.
macca;367589 said:
it should be entirely possible for Daves videos as well. it has nothing to do with the camera im using, but the software i processed it with afterwards. id imagine most good software is capable of it, i believe that even VirtualDub is (a free editing program that Dave is aware of). personally im using Sony Vegas and just added both video tracks and then set their opacity to about 60%.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Yeah let's hope the quality is there. I'm kind of hoping the 400 and whatever FPS will do the jos as it gives you the full screen option. With regards the wrong un, that'll be the easy one. The deliveries I want to look at are -
1. The Biggun (As mine I think almost always turns into a slider)
2. The Top-Spinning Flipper
3. The wrong un
4. The 'High in the fingers leg break'
5. The loose grip unfurled leg break
It's the leg breaks I want to look at primarily to see if the ball is rotating properly or at least diagonally.
Jim2109;367594 said:
Yeah let's hope the quality is there. I'm kind of hoping the 400 and whatever FPS will do the jos as it gives you the full screen option. With regards the wrong un, that'll be the easy one. The deliveries I want to look at are -
1. The Biggun (As mine I think almost always turns into a slider)
2. The Top-Spinning Flipper
3. The wrong un
4. The 'High in the fingers leg break'
5. The loose grip unfurled leg break
It's the leg breaks I want to look at primarily to see if the ball is rotating properly or at least diagonally.
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
had a practice this evening, my leg breaks were pretty weak, i was struggling for rhythm, not sure why. the sun was low again behind the nets though and its really off-putting when its in your eyes. if i cant see the pitch properly i cant find any kind of accuracy or consistency.
anyway, i gave up bowling leg breaks because it was getting depressing watching them spray all over the place and not turn. so i spent ages attempting to master the off spinning flipper. and i did!!
generally if i land it inline with off stump it will miss leg stump, it stays low as well. so i adjusted to bowling it outside off stump, one of them pitched easily 2 feet outside and only just missed off stump. the last ball i bowled before leaving landed a foot outside and hit middle and off
its an absolutely deadly delivery. still with backspin rather than topspin. i thought id mastered the top spin but my wrist corrects itself and makes it backspin instead. but ive got it turning big now with a sideways seam.
ive found the key to bowling it is to get your elbow up high. it feels like my elbow is actually above my hand, but it probably isnt, its just higher than normal. i transfer my weight onto my front foot more than i do for a leg break, and release the ball very late in the action (so that the elbow is high). it still loops up a bit in flight like my normal leg breaks, and the wrist rotation is still very similar. i think most batsmen would fail to read it, and then it turns huge off the pitch. it also has mental amounts of drift at times, away from the right hander.
essentially i now have a 6 foot variation in turn from my biggest leg break to my biggest off spun flipper. thats a pretty large variance, i want to bowl a spell at a batsman now!! it sucks that the season is over. if i can keep improving it though i cant even imagine how much better it could potentially be by next season. as well as my leg breaks.
one other thing i tried following peoples suggestions, with varying success, was to tuck my elbow in on my leg breaks instead of flailing it out sideways. i was bowling really badly, so i didnt really gain much from my attempts. but i definitely generate more turn and accuracy by tucking my elbow into my ribs as i follow through, and then letting the arm outstretch sideways afterwards. i guess it keeps the whole action more compact and straight. it warrants some more practice. i combined it with pointing my leading arm to the sky in front of my face as well. that is the future of my action for sure. but on a day when im bowling well, unlike today. one other point to note, i got the ball drifting more than ever with this technique as well. and its not like im generally lacking in drift with my regular action. so more positives.
had a practice this evening, my leg breaks were pretty weak, i was struggling for rhythm, not sure why. the sun was low again behind the nets though and its really off-putting when its in your eyes. if i cant see the pitch properly i cant find any kind of accuracy or consistency.
anyway, i gave up bowling leg breaks because it was getting depressing watching them spray all over the place and not turn. so i spent ages attempting to master the off spinning flipper. and i did!!
generally if i land it inline with off stump it will miss leg stump, it stays low as well. so i adjusted to bowling it outside off stump, one of them pitched easily 2 feet outside and only just missed off stump. the last ball i bowled before leaving landed a foot outside and hit middle and off
its an absolutely deadly delivery. still with backspin rather than topspin. i thought id mastered the top spin but my wrist corrects itself and makes it backspin instead. but ive got it turning big now with a sideways seam.ive found the key to bowling it is to get your elbow up high. it feels like my elbow is actually above my hand, but it probably isnt, its just higher than normal. i transfer my weight onto my front foot more than i do for a leg break, and release the ball very late in the action (so that the elbow is high). it still loops up a bit in flight like my normal leg breaks, and the wrist rotation is still very similar. i think most batsmen would fail to read it, and then it turns huge off the pitch. it also has mental amounts of drift at times, away from the right hander.
essentially i now have a 6 foot variation in turn from my biggest leg break to my biggest off spun flipper. thats a pretty large variance, i want to bowl a spell at a batsman now!! it sucks that the season is over. if i can keep improving it though i cant even imagine how much better it could potentially be by next season. as well as my leg breaks.
one other thing i tried following peoples suggestions, with varying success, was to tuck my elbow in on my leg breaks instead of flailing it out sideways. i was bowling really badly, so i didnt really gain much from my attempts. but i definitely generate more turn and accuracy by tucking my elbow into my ribs as i follow through, and then letting the arm outstretch sideways afterwards. i guess it keeps the whole action more compact and straight. it warrants some more practice. i combined it with pointing my leading arm to the sky in front of my face as well. that is the future of my action for sure. but on a day when im bowling well, unlike today. one other point to note, i got the ball drifting more than ever with this technique as well. and its not like im generally lacking in drift with my regular action. so more positives.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
I'll have to look at what I do with my leading arm. I know that last year when searching for my leg break I took to reaching very high with the leading arm in a very obvious and positive manner, but I'm not 100% what I do with it these days.
I just had a look - my arm comes through and keeps straight and flies out the back straight. I reckon it looks integral to my balance, but then looking at my rotation it is probably wrong in accordance with the text books. I'm uploading a video for youtube now and I'll link to it as soon as it's available, but you'll notice that I bowl over the wicket but stride right out in front of the stumps probably in line with the Leg stump and release the ball straight down the wicket from stumps to stumps potentially. But that stride out is then countered by an over-rotation (This is what My coach was telling me last winter) where the back foot which leaves the ground from behind and left of the rotating foot, goes right over and round the rotating foot to come back in past it and land in front and too the left of the rotating foot, meaning my rotation is probably almost 270 degrees rather than the regulation 180 degrees. This may be the cause of the arm having to act like a rudder and flying around behind me rather than doing Saddo's 'Tuck in'? I'll have to look at some Warne Bowling and look at his rotation and what happens with his leading arm......
I'll have to look at what I do with my leading arm. I know that last year when searching for my leg break I took to reaching very high with the leading arm in a very obvious and positive manner, but I'm not 100% what I do with it these days.
I just had a look - my arm comes through and keeps straight and flies out the back straight. I reckon it looks integral to my balance, but then looking at my rotation it is probably wrong in accordance with the text books. I'm uploading a video for youtube now and I'll link to it as soon as it's available, but you'll notice that I bowl over the wicket but stride right out in front of the stumps probably in line with the Leg stump and release the ball straight down the wicket from stumps to stumps potentially. But that stride out is then countered by an over-rotation (This is what My coach was telling me last winter) where the back foot which leaves the ground from behind and left of the rotating foot, goes right over and round the rotating foot to come back in past it and land in front and too the left of the rotating foot, meaning my rotation is probably almost 270 degrees rather than the regulation 180 degrees. This may be the cause of the arm having to act like a rudder and flying around behind me rather than doing Saddo's 'Tuck in'? I'll have to look at some Warne Bowling and look at his rotation and what happens with his leading arm......
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Jim, congrats again about the shots. The part of superimposing your leg break with your offspinning flipper where really ingenious, looked like hawk eye, might get employed by sky, so you had better patent your idea! What was interesting was the way the two balls crossed in the air with drift in opposite ways, and then crossed again on pitching. I am a bit jealous of your beautiful wrist movements to bowl the leg break. Unfortunately I notice my wtist is not as flexible, so I will never get that action myself. Went to have a bowl yesterday after 2 weeks and filmed myself with an oldish sony camcorder, and was not very impressed with what I saw. A sort of drunk Grimmett with a flailing semi paralysed left arm that did not do much good to my line, though my length was goodish. Got some to turn a lot though at least even though as stated accuracy was not so great. Funnily enough I resaw one of grimmetts videos where there is bradman commenting on him and I bowl the googly in the same way, even though the line and speed are nothing to be too proud about.
Dave, do you find that using a different ball for consecutive deliveries, puts your bowling off. Some I seem to grip well and spin more than the others. The majority are Ca balls and the rest that are worse are the kookubarra crown and the red and white readers that is really hopeless.
Jim, congrats again about the shots. The part of superimposing your leg break with your offspinning flipper where really ingenious, looked like hawk eye, might get employed by sky, so you had better patent your idea! What was interesting was the way the two balls crossed in the air with drift in opposite ways, and then crossed again on pitching. I am a bit jealous of your beautiful wrist movements to bowl the leg break. Unfortunately I notice my wtist is not as flexible, so I will never get that action myself. Went to have a bowl yesterday after 2 weeks and filmed myself with an oldish sony camcorder, and was not very impressed with what I saw. A sort of drunk Grimmett with a flailing semi paralysed left arm that did not do much good to my line, though my length was goodish. Got some to turn a lot though at least even though as stated accuracy was not so great. Funnily enough I resaw one of grimmetts videos where there is bradman commenting on him and I bowl the googly in the same way, even though the line and speed are nothing to be too proud about.
Dave, do you find that using a different ball for consecutive deliveries, puts your bowling off. Some I seem to grip well and spin more than the others. The majority are Ca balls and the rest that are worse are the kookubarra crown and the red and white readers that is really hopeless.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
A drunk grimmett, funny image sadspinner. Grimmett was tea total for all his life untill oreilly got him to try beer as a bowlers reviver but he only ever was an occassional light social drinker in later life. His preferred beverage when bowling was cold tea. And he always had a bag of dried fruit in his pocket which he nibbled on during the day in the field. A scarlet flannell undershirt was what kept his muscles warm and I already mentioned the wet pumice stone to rub on his fingertips to give him " sympathy" with the ball so it "obeyed my every whim"
A drunk grimmett, funny image sadspinner. Grimmett was tea total for all his life untill oreilly got him to try beer as a bowlers reviver but he only ever was an occassional light social drinker in later life. His preferred beverage when bowling was cold tea. And he always had a bag of dried fruit in his pocket which he nibbled on during the day in the field. A scarlet flannell undershirt was what kept his muscles warm and I already mentioned the wet pumice stone to rub on his fingertips to give him " sympathy" with the ball so it "obeyed my every whim"
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
I love the drunk and semi paralysed Grimmett image you've conjured up there - made me laugh!
With regards my balls, I read something somewhere a long time ago about not bowling with the same ball/balls and very early on in my career albeit only 2 years ago I noticed that balls come in 2 distinct sizes - large and small. I was brought up on big balls that used to be used as standard in our matches whereas after losing some of my big balls I bought a load of those crappy Davidson XSS balls which were smaller. I then found that I could bowl better with the smaller types and this used to cause me problems on Sundays where I'd then be handed the bigger variety of ball. Then about a year ago I started to take a bucket out with a mixture of big and small balls and that seemed to work as the preference for one or the other diminished. In my daily bucket of balls now there's even more of a mixture - kids size 4-1/4 oz large and small varieties only 1 or 2 and the rest are a mixture of the larger types and smaller type all 5-1/2 oz all different qualities and brands. My favourites though are the crappy Davidsons XSS because I took a rasp to one side of em all and roughed em all up and the shiny side is now knackered as well and they're fine. The other thing I've noted is that all the matches I've played in this year whether away or at home have used the smaller variety of ball....weird.
I love the drunk and semi paralysed Grimmett image you've conjured up there - made me laugh!
With regards my balls, I read something somewhere a long time ago about not bowling with the same ball/balls and very early on in my career albeit only 2 years ago I noticed that balls come in 2 distinct sizes - large and small. I was brought up on big balls that used to be used as standard in our matches whereas after losing some of my big balls I bought a load of those crappy Davidson XSS balls which were smaller. I then found that I could bowl better with the smaller types and this used to cause me problems on Sundays where I'd then be handed the bigger variety of ball. Then about a year ago I started to take a bucket out with a mixture of big and small balls and that seemed to work as the preference for one or the other diminished. In my daily bucket of balls now there's even more of a mixture - kids size 4-1/4 oz large and small varieties only 1 or 2 and the rest are a mixture of the larger types and smaller type all 5-1/2 oz all different qualities and brands. My favourites though are the crappy Davidsons XSS because I took a rasp to one side of em all and roughed em all up and the shiny side is now knackered as well and they're fine. The other thing I've noted is that all the matches I've played in this year whether away or at home have used the smaller variety of ball....weird.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
They changed the official size of the ball and stumps during Grimmetts career . The ball was made smaller and although you would think that would be better for the spinner Bradman wrote that Grimmett said he prefered the older, bigger ball before the rule change as it spun more he thought.
They changed the official size of the ball and stumps during Grimmetts career . The ball was made smaller and although you would think that would be better for the spinner Bradman wrote that Grimmett said he prefered the older, bigger ball before the rule change as it spun more he thought.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Here we go the most recent footage of me bowling from about 3 weeks ago.
1. The flailing leading arm.
2. The step out in front of the stumps which in this clips isn't as bad as I thought.
3. 270 degree (Almost) rotation.
4. The weird little skip
YouTube - someblokecalleddave Leg breaks
Here we go the most recent footage of me bowling from about 3 weeks ago.
1. The flailing leading arm.
2. The step out in front of the stumps which in this clips isn't as bad as I thought.
3. 270 degree (Almost) rotation.
4. The weird little skip
YouTube - someblokecalleddave Leg breaks
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
thanks, i was quite chuffed with the overlaid video, im not sure Sky are going to come calling though. id like to figure out some simple way to use 2 or 3 cameras and be able to corroborate the data into an actual hawkeye setup, but theres no way it can be that easy else someone would be selling something already. the Pitchvision setup is probably as close as it gets, but thats a little beyond my budget and requirements i think.
ive always used a fairly mixed bag of cricket balls. ive got my old faithful, a really roughed up Slazenger ball that ive used since day one. its really soft and easy to grip, its also the perfect size. i guess thats more down to the fact i learnt to spin between my hands with it, so my whole action is adjusted to it. its also a medium sized ball, which worked out nicely. ive got a few really small 2-piece Gray Nicholls balls which are easy to spin but have a super pronounced seam so do weird things off the pitch. ive got 6 GM balls of a good quality (they should have cost about £14 each, but i got 6 off eBay for £24) which i use most of the time. they give me a little consistency. ive then got a few random balls, some i found some i bought. ive got a Readers ball thats really big and almost never turns no matter how hard you rip it. i think a mixture helps to acclimatise your action to whatever kind of ball you can get thrown on match day.
in theory it should be harder to generate revs on a larger ball than a smaller one, but ultimately the surface velocity of the ball would end up the same so both should spin the same. assuming that the difference in size doesnt hinder the grip for one or other.
personally i find that with a smaller ball i have an improved grip, and thus can generate much more spin on a smaller ball relative to the larger one, but despite that i find that medium sized balls turn the most (this isnt exactly a fair test however given that the smaller balls are a different brand). but interestingly a larger ball appears to do more in flight, maybe its an optical illusion. i think everyone has a feel for what size of ball fits their hand and grip correctly. thus far the match balls ive used have always been around about that size.
sadspinner;367866 said:
thanks, i was quite chuffed with the overlaid video, im not sure Sky are going to come calling though. id like to figure out some simple way to use 2 or 3 cameras and be able to corroborate the data into an actual hawkeye setup, but theres no way it can be that easy else someone would be selling something already. the Pitchvision setup is probably as close as it gets, but thats a little beyond my budget and requirements i think.
ive always used a fairly mixed bag of cricket balls. ive got my old faithful, a really roughed up Slazenger ball that ive used since day one. its really soft and easy to grip, its also the perfect size. i guess thats more down to the fact i learnt to spin between my hands with it, so my whole action is adjusted to it. its also a medium sized ball, which worked out nicely. ive got a few really small 2-piece Gray Nicholls balls which are easy to spin but have a super pronounced seam so do weird things off the pitch. ive got 6 GM balls of a good quality (they should have cost about £14 each, but i got 6 off eBay for £24) which i use most of the time. they give me a little consistency. ive then got a few random balls, some i found some i bought. ive got a Readers ball thats really big and almost never turns no matter how hard you rip it. i think a mixture helps to acclimatise your action to whatever kind of ball you can get thrown on match day.
macca;367872 said:
in theory it should be harder to generate revs on a larger ball than a smaller one, but ultimately the surface velocity of the ball would end up the same so both should spin the same. assuming that the difference in size doesnt hinder the grip for one or other.
personally i find that with a smaller ball i have an improved grip, and thus can generate much more spin on a smaller ball relative to the larger one, but despite that i find that medium sized balls turn the most (this isnt exactly a fair test however given that the smaller balls are a different brand). but interestingly a larger ball appears to do more in flight, maybe its an optical illusion. i think everyone has a feel for what size of ball fits their hand and grip correctly. thus far the match balls ive used have always been around about that size.
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
your leading arm does tuck in initially though, it then stretches out later. thats how Warne bowls. its what im moving towards.
im finding that tucking my arm in removes the requirement to step across myself, doing so sprays the ball leg side. i tried just going straight and it worked, consistent line on middle and leg stump. this also alters point 3 to a less pronounced body rotation.
and the little skip is just the way you bowl. have you ever tried removing it over a long period of time? simply removing it for a day will probably result in problems, it will probably take a while to adjust around it not being there. ive had the same sort of problem about 3 times already where ive picked up habits in my bowling and then removed them because they werent helpful. on the other hand it may not be harming anything except for possibly forward momentum. and you dont necessarily need to bowl faster anyway. but then it may hinder the revs you put on the ball as it probably reduces the shift of momentum through your rotation. i almost sling my arm through the rotation to generate the revs, as well as the wrist.
someblokecalleddave;367875 said:
your leading arm does tuck in initially though, it then stretches out later. thats how Warne bowls. its what im moving towards.
im finding that tucking my arm in removes the requirement to step across myself, doing so sprays the ball leg side. i tried just going straight and it worked, consistent line on middle and leg stump. this also alters point 3 to a less pronounced body rotation.
and the little skip is just the way you bowl. have you ever tried removing it over a long period of time? simply removing it for a day will probably result in problems, it will probably take a while to adjust around it not being there. ive had the same sort of problem about 3 times already where ive picked up habits in my bowling and then removed them because they werent helpful. on the other hand it may not be harming anything except for possibly forward momentum. and you dont necessarily need to bowl faster anyway. but then it may hinder the revs you put on the ball as it probably reduces the shift of momentum through your rotation. i almost sling my arm through the rotation to generate the revs, as well as the wrist.
The Edge Of Willow
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
It has been far to long since I've posted here.
I have made good progress. My turn is well and truly back now. My problems seemed to stem from lack of a flowing action; I would get all muddled up, with the timing of movements all out synch, causing several problems, the major ones being a total lost of the pivot and a horrible release. Those really fixed themselves when I got my "flow" back.
The slight trouble I have now is with my front time; I sometimes forget to push forward with my front arm, usually causing me to loop the ball up far too high, and I still have rather inconsistent accuracy. Otherwise, I'm going very well, I bowled my best ball ever to a left-hander yesterday at the nets, aimed outside the left hander's off-stump, it drifted even further and pitched about two feet outside the off-stump, so the batsmen let it go, it then ripped back and took off-stump.
It has been far to long since I've posted here.
I have made good progress. My turn is well and truly back now. My problems seemed to stem from lack of a flowing action; I would get all muddled up, with the timing of movements all out synch, causing several problems, the major ones being a total lost of the pivot and a horrible release. Those really fixed themselves when I got my "flow" back.
The slight trouble I have now is with my front time; I sometimes forget to push forward with my front arm, usually causing me to loop the ball up far too high, and I still have rather inconsistent accuracy. Otherwise, I'm going very well, I bowled my best ball ever to a left-hander yesterday at the nets, aimed outside the left hander's off-stump, it drifted even further and pitched about two feet outside the off-stump, so the batsmen let it go, it then ripped back and took off-stump.
TheGreasyPole
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
Hi Everyone.
As you can guess, I'm a n00b..... but not just on the site, to wrist spin bowling as well..... to give you a flavour.....
I've been a big cricket fan since university, but hadn't played since a couple of games at school. Then about 2 years ago I found myself living opposite an army barracks with a couple of nets. I was figuring out a way to try and give myself some light exercise....... so I thought I'd see how easy it was to be Shane Warne, nipped over their fence, and used their nets.
Not very easy, it turns out.
Anyway, I had great fun just trying to keep it on the pitch and perhaps went 3 dozen times for an hour or so just mucking about. This led, of course, to spinning it around the house all the time causing my g/friend to get terminally pissed off with random "cracks!" as I missed the catch and it fell on our hard floors.
Then I went travelling for a year, round the world trip, and took my ball with me. I maybe bowled another 3 dozen sessions all over the world.
Now I'm back I paced out a pitch opposite a chain link fence in a park near work, and am using the pole holding up the fence as the "wicket".
So recently I started all over again, every dry lunchtime for 45-50min, and this time I'm taking it a bit more seriously. I figure if I'm doing this for a more fun way to exercise...... I may as well take it seriously enough to get good and join a club some way down the line (I am NOWHERE near good enough right now).
In this SomeBlokeCalledDave's blogs have been invaluable.... and this thread is certainly full of top medium/advanced tips...... but I'm still a Looooooooooooong way from the standard of anyone here.
Seriously. A long way short.
Now, I'm aware that I'm probably looking at a year or two's practice here before I'm confident enough in my bowling to go join a team and I've decided I'd like to put that in. Maybe I've done 80 hours practice so far (and this over 3 years so hardly consistent enough to seriously improve), and I'm thinking it's going to take hundreds of hours, consistently, to get good. 200-300+ easily. Especially as I don't participate in any other sports, so I am hardly a natural athlete (I'm also 33)
So, I'd like to solicit some advice to help me out at this very early stage.......
Of course, a lot of the basic, and important, stuff is on Dave's blogs already (or on these big cricket threads) and so I won't be asking about things that are already very well covered (and, trust me, I'm soaking up and using all the information you guys are providing, especially on body/wrist action) but some things I want to know I just can't find. So .... some questions......
1) My current "metric" for improvement.
I currently divide my balls into 3 groups.
Wides - Those that leave the pitch or are so wide of the wicket down each side that they're, frankly, pathetic. Still a lot of these at this early stage, although I go through "good patches" where I don't bowl a wide for 2 or 3 overs.
Good Balls - Those that hit a patch I mark out about 1.5m long by 80cm wide. This patch is located 1.5 short of the popping crease at it's fullest edge, and with the leg side edge of the patch in line with leg stump, it covers a length roughly from 1.5-3m from the crease, and width from leg stump to 40cm outside off. I know this ain't great.... but I figure if they pitch here they aren't horrific.
Bad Balls - Anything that doesn't hit the patch (including balls in line that are full tosses/far too short) and isn't a wide.
On a good day..... I'd break down over 18 balls roughly 8 good, 8 bad, 2 wides...... and have no control of line/length within the patch so I clearly have some way to go.
In your opinion is this a good way to start thinking about this early on ?
I know later I'll want to shrink this patch..... or start to get control of line and length within it..... but do you think this is a good starting approach ? We can call it the "get it roughly in the right area" approach for beginners.
Are there any suggestions for a better way to approach this right at the start (I am a very long way from hitting a dinner plate at will).
Also, am I locating my "patch" correctly. After reading the blogs I've moved it slightly (making any balls wide of leg "bad" balls) but is it too wide ? too long ? Not long enough ? Not wide enough ? Have I got it "roughly in the right area" ?
2) How good is good enough ?
For all the help and assistance all these blogs/boards offer on technique, line, length, tactics and so on...... they seem to offer little advice on the order of "get this good before you consider a team".
I have little interest in joining a club unless I'm "reasonable" enough not to embarass myself in the nets (forget bowling in a match for now). Especially given this boards sage advice concerning "batsmen who think whacking the leggy in the nets is a great laugh, even though in a real match I'd have them kacking their pants
)
What advice could you offer along the lines of "If I was hitting an area Xcm by Ycm roughly Z% of the time placed HERE, I'd consider that 'good enough' to go join a team" ?
You guys all talk about hitting dinner plates or hitting the line of off 5/6...... and I'm sure that great for you guys who have already put the "hard yards" in to be good enough to be in the clubs and playing for teams..... but that seems one hell of a long way off for me.
Do I have to hit a plate sized area 5 balls out of 6 to consider joining a club ? Or would a larger area, or lower percentage, do at the start .... with continued improvement to come ?
I was considering roughly hitting my patch 9 balls out of 12 and 1 wide per 3-4 overs being a reasonable standard to join a club, but advice would be appreciated.
3) Early practicing technique.
Right now I concentrate (90%+) on leg spin. Maybe 8% on some top spinners (with which I am more accurate) and chucking the occasional flipper/google attempt down for a bit of fun once or twice a session. I think from comments in the thread that this is probably right for a "from scratch starter".
I also have far greater accuracy with a "2 walking steps -> Action" approach.... if I jog in (or attempt a full run up) my accuracy (such as it is) gets even worse. Any advice on whether (IYO) it's better to stick with this "two step walk -> action" and then add a "proper" jog/skip run up once accuracy is gained....... or..... go for the full run up now (sod the accuracy costs) and develop accuracy from there ?
I'm often in two minds about this and worry that in using a "two walking step -> action" approach I am training myself in a bad habit that will force me to learn "all over again" at a later date although it does allow me to conentrate on my action/wrist.
In a similar vein...... I am currently using a "two up-two down grip" with my wrist half cocked at about 45deg (fully cocked causes me to pull loads down for wides)...... again the idea is to get accuracy with this then increase the wrist to the full 90 deg cock. Again..... IYO...... better to go "full cocked" from the start (and sod the accuracy for now) or to stay "half cocked", get the accuracy, then increase the cock, and so the spin gained from it ?
One more thing......... something I've picked up that I haven't seen anyone else mention...... I notice that (when using the full cock) I find I can produce leggies more easily with it cocked pointing straight down the wicket before curling the arm up for the full action (where it points at my chest). I discovered that if I turn this 90deg so it is cocked pointing at my leg (or accross my chest when curled) it makes it easier with the top-spinners. Finally, if I hold it cocked pointing away from the wicket before curling the arm (or in a kind of striking snake pose down the wicket when curled) I can produce googlies, and this is the ONLY way I've found of producing balls that go the other way.
It seems to set my arm up so that, when bowling, it places my wrist "automitically-ish" in the right postion at release for each delivery (although it means the googly is almost all finger, not wrist action, and so only deviates a small amount, say 10-20cm with a good ball)..... has anyone else anything to say about this ? Might it help others who can't "get" certain deliveries ? Is it a "bad" way to go about the googly, in that it removes almost all (80%?) wrist action from it ?
It's not as if I'm trying to get a good googly at present, and it doesn't interfere witht he wrist action on leg/top so It's no biggie....... but I wondered if anyone else experienced something similar or had a "For gods sake don't do THAT" reaction to it ?
Thats pretty much it for now........ any advice gratefully received.....
Yours,
TGP
Hi Everyone.
As you can guess, I'm a n00b..... but not just on the site, to wrist spin bowling as well..... to give you a flavour.....
I've been a big cricket fan since university, but hadn't played since a couple of games at school. Then about 2 years ago I found myself living opposite an army barracks with a couple of nets. I was figuring out a way to try and give myself some light exercise....... so I thought I'd see how easy it was to be Shane Warne, nipped over their fence, and used their nets.
Not very easy, it turns out.
Anyway, I had great fun just trying to keep it on the pitch and perhaps went 3 dozen times for an hour or so just mucking about. This led, of course, to spinning it around the house all the time causing my g/friend to get terminally pissed off with random "cracks!" as I missed the catch and it fell on our hard floors.
Then I went travelling for a year, round the world trip, and took my ball with me. I maybe bowled another 3 dozen sessions all over the world.
Now I'm back I paced out a pitch opposite a chain link fence in a park near work, and am using the pole holding up the fence as the "wicket".
So recently I started all over again, every dry lunchtime for 45-50min, and this time I'm taking it a bit more seriously. I figure if I'm doing this for a more fun way to exercise...... I may as well take it seriously enough to get good and join a club some way down the line (I am NOWHERE near good enough right now).
In this SomeBlokeCalledDave's blogs have been invaluable.... and this thread is certainly full of top medium/advanced tips...... but I'm still a Looooooooooooong way from the standard of anyone here.
Seriously. A long way short.
Now, I'm aware that I'm probably looking at a year or two's practice here before I'm confident enough in my bowling to go join a team and I've decided I'd like to put that in. Maybe I've done 80 hours practice so far (and this over 3 years so hardly consistent enough to seriously improve), and I'm thinking it's going to take hundreds of hours, consistently, to get good. 200-300+ easily. Especially as I don't participate in any other sports, so I am hardly a natural athlete (I'm also 33)
So, I'd like to solicit some advice to help me out at this very early stage.......
Of course, a lot of the basic, and important, stuff is on Dave's blogs already (or on these big cricket threads) and so I won't be asking about things that are already very well covered (and, trust me, I'm soaking up and using all the information you guys are providing, especially on body/wrist action) but some things I want to know I just can't find. So .... some questions......
1) My current "metric" for improvement.
I currently divide my balls into 3 groups.
Wides - Those that leave the pitch or are so wide of the wicket down each side that they're, frankly, pathetic. Still a lot of these at this early stage, although I go through "good patches" where I don't bowl a wide for 2 or 3 overs.
Good Balls - Those that hit a patch I mark out about 1.5m long by 80cm wide. This patch is located 1.5 short of the popping crease at it's fullest edge, and with the leg side edge of the patch in line with leg stump, it covers a length roughly from 1.5-3m from the crease, and width from leg stump to 40cm outside off. I know this ain't great.... but I figure if they pitch here they aren't horrific.
Bad Balls - Anything that doesn't hit the patch (including balls in line that are full tosses/far too short) and isn't a wide.
On a good day..... I'd break down over 18 balls roughly 8 good, 8 bad, 2 wides...... and have no control of line/length within the patch so I clearly have some way to go.
In your opinion is this a good way to start thinking about this early on ?
I know later I'll want to shrink this patch..... or start to get control of line and length within it..... but do you think this is a good starting approach ? We can call it the "get it roughly in the right area" approach for beginners.
Are there any suggestions for a better way to approach this right at the start (I am a very long way from hitting a dinner plate at will).
Also, am I locating my "patch" correctly. After reading the blogs I've moved it slightly (making any balls wide of leg "bad" balls) but is it too wide ? too long ? Not long enough ? Not wide enough ? Have I got it "roughly in the right area" ?
2) How good is good enough ?
For all the help and assistance all these blogs/boards offer on technique, line, length, tactics and so on...... they seem to offer little advice on the order of "get this good before you consider a team".
I have little interest in joining a club unless I'm "reasonable" enough not to embarass myself in the nets (forget bowling in a match for now). Especially given this boards sage advice concerning "batsmen who think whacking the leggy in the nets is a great laugh, even though in a real match I'd have them kacking their pants
)What advice could you offer along the lines of "If I was hitting an area Xcm by Ycm roughly Z% of the time placed HERE, I'd consider that 'good enough' to go join a team" ?
You guys all talk about hitting dinner plates or hitting the line of off 5/6...... and I'm sure that great for you guys who have already put the "hard yards" in to be good enough to be in the clubs and playing for teams..... but that seems one hell of a long way off for me.
Do I have to hit a plate sized area 5 balls out of 6 to consider joining a club ? Or would a larger area, or lower percentage, do at the start .... with continued improvement to come ?
I was considering roughly hitting my patch 9 balls out of 12 and 1 wide per 3-4 overs being a reasonable standard to join a club, but advice would be appreciated.
3) Early practicing technique.
Right now I concentrate (90%+) on leg spin. Maybe 8% on some top spinners (with which I am more accurate) and chucking the occasional flipper/google attempt down for a bit of fun once or twice a session. I think from comments in the thread that this is probably right for a "from scratch starter".
I also have far greater accuracy with a "2 walking steps -> Action" approach.... if I jog in (or attempt a full run up) my accuracy (such as it is) gets even worse. Any advice on whether (IYO) it's better to stick with this "two step walk -> action" and then add a "proper" jog/skip run up once accuracy is gained....... or..... go for the full run up now (sod the accuracy costs) and develop accuracy from there ?
I'm often in two minds about this and worry that in using a "two walking step -> action" approach I am training myself in a bad habit that will force me to learn "all over again" at a later date although it does allow me to conentrate on my action/wrist.
In a similar vein...... I am currently using a "two up-two down grip" with my wrist half cocked at about 45deg (fully cocked causes me to pull loads down for wides)...... again the idea is to get accuracy with this then increase the wrist to the full 90 deg cock. Again..... IYO...... better to go "full cocked" from the start (and sod the accuracy for now) or to stay "half cocked", get the accuracy, then increase the cock, and so the spin gained from it ?
One more thing......... something I've picked up that I haven't seen anyone else mention...... I notice that (when using the full cock) I find I can produce leggies more easily with it cocked pointing straight down the wicket before curling the arm up for the full action (where it points at my chest). I discovered that if I turn this 90deg so it is cocked pointing at my leg (or accross my chest when curled) it makes it easier with the top-spinners. Finally, if I hold it cocked pointing away from the wicket before curling the arm (or in a kind of striking snake pose down the wicket when curled) I can produce googlies, and this is the ONLY way I've found of producing balls that go the other way.
It seems to set my arm up so that, when bowling, it places my wrist "automitically-ish" in the right postion at release for each delivery (although it means the googly is almost all finger, not wrist action, and so only deviates a small amount, say 10-20cm with a good ball)..... has anyone else anything to say about this ? Might it help others who can't "get" certain deliveries ? Is it a "bad" way to go about the googly, in that it removes almost all (80%?) wrist action from it ?
It's not as if I'm trying to get a good googly at present, and it doesn't interfere witht he wrist action on leg/top so It's no biggie....... but I wondered if anyone else experienced something similar or had a "For gods sake don't do THAT" reaction to it ?
Thats pretty much it for now........ any advice gratefully received.....
Yours,
TGP
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
1. personally i ignored accuracy to begin with. its something that is up for debte, most coaches in the UK would tell you to focus on accuracy primarily, this is how seam bowlers operate. i disagree for spin though, and so do quite a few of the experts on spin. i think you need to get the ball spinning primarily, and accuracy comes later.
so try to focus your attentions on generating as many revolutions on the ball as possible. start out between your hands (and do this all the time when your hands are free, e.g. watching TV, etc). the next step is to bowl underarm, focus solely on the leg break. underarm is very important to train the muscles, i used to bowl with tennis balls in my small back garden against my brother, primarily underarm. i did this for years before i bowled a single delivery with a proper cricket ball and i think it helped me to hit the ground running.
then the next stage is overarm, start out over shorter distances, dont worry about bowling from 22 yards. try it from 16, speed and accuracy arent important, just get it spinning hard.
as you improve you can then expand on the action. add more power and follow through, bowl from further away, make tweaks, etc. accuracy comes with practice in my experience, the more i bowl the more accurate and consistent i get. but spin doesnt. you really have to work at that and make adjustments to improve it.
definitely dont concern yourself with lacking accuracy yet. provided the ball is turning well just keep improving on that.
2. this one doesnt really have a definite answer i dont think. i joined a club the week after i bowled my first spell in the nets where i really impressed myself with the amount of turn i was getting. i started out bowling at my brother and he would smash me all over the place. that was a bad idea, it hindered my development, so i bowled on my own from then on. i basically decided i was good enough as soon as i felt like my bowling would cause my brother problems. that took about 3 weeks of practicing 6 hours per week, but as said, i had prior advantages such as bowling in the back garden, between my hands, etc. i had one day where i was getting the ball to drift big and turn big, ball of the century style deliveries, and doing it every ball. so i found a club to play for. then for about 3 weeks i couldnt find any kind of form whatsoever lol.
theres no harm in joining a club early, obviously being the end of the season now you wont be joining until pre season. even if youre not ready to play, youre ready to practice! find a local club with good net facilities and a laid back bunch of guys. ideally a large club with plenty of teams as well (find a team with one league team and one friendly team and youll always struggle to get a chance and keep a place early on).
i cant hit a dinner plate yet, i can sometimes vary my line as i want to. more often than not i find a rhythm and the ball lands in the area i want it to, but i dont always have control of that, its purely a case of practicing the same deliveries over and over and my muscles remembering what to do.
3. lots to discuss with this point. firstly, some coaches advise youngsters to bowl top spinners first because its easier to get accuracy and good flight with this delivery. its a question of preference. dont worry about googlies at all though IMO, the risk of causing irrepairable damage to your action makes it risky. one or two per session wont hurt but dont focus on this delivery too much too early. the leg break is the important one. once youve got the leg break nailed start to think of variations. top spinners arent so risky.
i started out with a 2 walking step method, i also found a full run up problematic. i kept at this for quite a while, a month probably, before i even considered adding the run up. when i eventually did the run up came very naturally and took slight adjustments. definitely start out with the 2 step method, it will get your body, arm and wrist working correctly, then you can alter the body and legs later to compensate for the run up. sometimes il go back to the 2 step method to find my rhythm and then add the run up back in again. especially on new types of delivery, or when im trying to alter something in the action.
cocking the wrist is a personal preference thing. for my stock ball my wrist is fairly straight, i can move it around to vary the turn. go with whatever works. i find that if my wrist tightens up though (e.g. fatigue, getting angry with myself, etc) my action suffers, in both accuracy and spin. so having a loose wrist that is able to flick and rotate is quite important, thus cocking the wrist to some extent plays a part in most peoples bowling whether they notice it or not.
those are my thoughts, im sure youll get some more from others as well. everyone has their own methods though, im just sharing what my development process was. ive been playing for about 4 months now, and have played 4 club matches with mixed results (2 wickets from 14 overs at an average of 59. ive leaked runs at times, but its part of the learning process). i like to think ive developed my bowling very quickly though to a decent standard, if i can continue the development through the winter im targetting league cricket next season and to be a consistent wicket taker up among the best at the club. ive got a load of slow motion videos of my action on youtube, theres a thread on here with links to them all. maybe worth a look for some ideas, but its important to keep in mind that individuality is very important with leg spin, you cant simply copy someone else, you have to use what works for you. it never hurts to try other peoples methods though, i base most of what i try on Shane Warne, and most of the time copying him improves things.
TheGreasyPole;368113 said:Hi Everyone.
As you can guess, I'm a n00b..... but not just on the site, to wrist spin bowling as well..... to give you a flavour.....
I've been a big cricket fan since university, but hadn't played since a couple of games at school. Then about 2 years ago I found myself living opposite an army barracks with a couple of nets. I was figuring out a way to try and give myself some light exercise....... so I thought I'd see how easy it was to be Shane Warne, nipped over their fence, and used their nets.
Not very easy, it turns out.
Anyway, I had great fun just trying to keep it on the pitch and perhaps went 3 dozen times for an hour or so just mucking about. This led, of course, to spinning it around the house all the time causing my g/friend to get terminally pissed off with random "cracks!" as I missed the catch and it fell on our hard floors.
Then I went travelling for a year, round the world trip, and took my ball with me. I maybe bowled another 3 dozen sessions all over the world.
Now I'm back I paced out a pitch opposite a chain link fence in a park near work, and am using the pole holding up the fence as the "wicket".
So recently I started all over again, every dry lunchtime for 45-50min, and this time I'm taking it a bit more seriously. I figure if I'm doing this for a more fun way to exercise...... I may as well take it seriously enough to get good and join a club some way down the line (I am NOWHERE near good enough right now).
In this SomeBlokeCalledDave's blogs have been invaluable.... and this thread is certainly full of top medium/advanced tips...... but I'm still a Looooooooooooong way from the standard of anyone here.
Seriously. A long way short.
Now, I'm aware that I'm probably looking at a year or two's practice here before I'm confident enough in my bowling to go join a team and I've decided I'd like to put that in. Maybe I've done 80 hours practice so far (and this over 3 years so hardly consistent enough to seriously improve), and I'm thinking it's going to take hundreds of hours, consistently, to get good. 200-300+ easily. Especially as I don't participate in any other sports, so I am hardly a natural athlete (I'm also 33)
So, I'd like to solicit some advice to help me out at this very early stage.......
Of course, a lot of the basic, and important, stuff is on Dave's blogs already (or on these big cricket threads) and so I won't be asking about things that are already very well covered (and, trust me, I'm soaking up and using all the information you guys are providing, especially on body/wrist action) but some things I want to know I just can't find. So .... some questions......
1) My current "metric" for improvement.
I currently divide my balls into 3 groups.
Wides - Those that leave the pitch or are so wide of the wicket down each side that they're, frankly, pathetic. Still a lot of these at this early stage, although I go through "good patches" where I don't bowl a wide for 2 or 3 overs.
Good Balls - Those that hit a patch I mark out about 1.5m long by 80cm wide. This patch is located 1.5 short of the popping crease at it's fullest edge, and with the leg side edge of the patch in line with leg stump, it covers a length roughly from 1.5-3m from the crease, and width from leg stump to 40cm outside off. I know this ain't great.... but I figure if they pitch here they aren't horrific.
Bad Balls - Anything that doesn't hit the patch (including balls in line that are full tosses/far too short) and isn't a wide.
On a good day..... I'd break down over 18 balls roughly 8 good, 8 bad, 2 wides...... and have no control of line/length within the patch so I clearly have some way to go.
In your opinion is this a good way to start thinking about this early on ?
I know later I'll want to shrink this patch..... or start to get control of line and length within it..... but do you think this is a good starting approach ? We can call it the "get it roughly in the right area" approach for beginners.
Are there any suggestions for a better way to approach this right at the start (I am a very long way from hitting a dinner plate at will).
Also, am I locating my "patch" correctly. After reading the blogs I've moved it slightly (making any balls wide of leg "bad" balls) but is it too wide ? too long ? Not long enough ? Not wide enough ? Have I got it "roughly in the right area" ?
2) How good is good enough ?
For all the help and assistance all these blogs/boards offer on technique, line, length, tactics and so on...... they seem to offer little advice on the order of "get this good before you consider a team".
I have little interest in joining a club unless I'm "reasonable" enough not to embarass myself in the nets (forget bowling in a match for now). Especially given this boards sage advice concerning "batsmen who think whacking the leggy in the nets is a great laugh, even though in a real match I'd have them kacking their pants
What advice could you offer along the lines of "If I was hitting an area Xcm by Ycm roughly Z% of the time placed HERE, I'd consider that 'good enough' to go join a team" ?
You guys all talk about hitting dinner plates or hitting the line of off 5/6...... and I'm sure that great for you guys who have already put the "hard yards" in to be good enough to be in the clubs and playing for teams..... but that seems one hell of a long way off for me.
Do I have to hit a plate sized area 5 balls out of 6 to consider joining a club ? Or would a larger area, or lower percentage, do at the start .... with continued improvement to come ?
I was considering roughly hitting my patch 9 balls out of 12 and 1 wide per 3-4 overs being a reasonable standard to join a club, but advice would be appreciated.
3) Early practicing technique.
Right now I concentrate (90%+) on leg spin. Maybe 8% on some top spinners (with which I am more accurate) and chucking the occasional flipper/google attempt down for a bit of fun once or twice a session. I think from comments in the thread that this is probably right for a "from scratch starter".
I also have far greater accuracy with a "2 walking steps -> Action" approach.... if I jog in (or attempt a full run up) my accuracy (such as it is) gets even worse. Any advice on whether (IYO) it's better to stick with this "two step walk -> action" and then add a "proper" jog/skip run up once accuracy is gained....... or..... go for the full run up now (sod the accuracy costs) and develop accuracy from there ?
I'm often in two minds about this and worry that in using a "two walking step -> action" approach I am training myself in a bad habit that will force me to learn "all over again" at a later date although it does allow me to conentrate on my action/wrist.
In a similar vein...... I am currently using a "two up-two down grip" with my wrist half cocked at about 45deg (fully cocked causes me to pull loads down for wides)...... again the idea is to get accuracy with this then increase the wrist to the full 90 deg cock. Again..... IYO...... better to go "full cocked" from the start (and sod the accuracy for now) or to stay "half cocked", get the accuracy, then increase the cock, and so the spin gained from it ?
One more thing......... something I've picked up that I haven't seen anyone else mention...... I notice that (when using the full cock) I find I can produce leggies more easily with it cocked pointing straight down the wicket before curling the arm up for the full action (where it points at my chest). I discovered that if I turn this 90deg so it is cocked pointing at my leg (or accross my chest when curled) it makes it easier with the top-spinners. Finally, if I hold it cocked pointing away from the wicket before curling the arm (or in a kind of striking snake pose down the wicket when curled) I can produce googlies, and this is the ONLY way I've found of producing balls that go the other way.
It seems to set my arm up so that, when bowling, it places my wrist "automitically-ish" in the right postion at release for each delivery (although it means the googly is almost all finger, not wrist action, and so only deviates a small amount, say 10-20cm with a good ball)..... has anyone else anything to say about this ? Might it help others who can't "get" certain deliveries ? Is it a "bad" way to go about the googly, in that it removes almost all (80%?) wrist action from it ?
It's not as if I'm trying to get a good googly at present, and it doesn't interfere witht he wrist action on leg/top so It's no biggie....... but I wondered if anyone else experienced something similar or had a "For gods sake don't do THAT" reaction to it ?
Thats pretty much it for now........ any advice gratefully received.....
Yours,
TGP
1. personally i ignored accuracy to begin with. its something that is up for debte, most coaches in the UK would tell you to focus on accuracy primarily, this is how seam bowlers operate. i disagree for spin though, and so do quite a few of the experts on spin. i think you need to get the ball spinning primarily, and accuracy comes later.
so try to focus your attentions on generating as many revolutions on the ball as possible. start out between your hands (and do this all the time when your hands are free, e.g. watching TV, etc). the next step is to bowl underarm, focus solely on the leg break. underarm is very important to train the muscles, i used to bowl with tennis balls in my small back garden against my brother, primarily underarm. i did this for years before i bowled a single delivery with a proper cricket ball and i think it helped me to hit the ground running.
then the next stage is overarm, start out over shorter distances, dont worry about bowling from 22 yards. try it from 16, speed and accuracy arent important, just get it spinning hard.
as you improve you can then expand on the action. add more power and follow through, bowl from further away, make tweaks, etc. accuracy comes with practice in my experience, the more i bowl the more accurate and consistent i get. but spin doesnt. you really have to work at that and make adjustments to improve it.
definitely dont concern yourself with lacking accuracy yet. provided the ball is turning well just keep improving on that.
2. this one doesnt really have a definite answer i dont think. i joined a club the week after i bowled my first spell in the nets where i really impressed myself with the amount of turn i was getting. i started out bowling at my brother and he would smash me all over the place. that was a bad idea, it hindered my development, so i bowled on my own from then on. i basically decided i was good enough as soon as i felt like my bowling would cause my brother problems. that took about 3 weeks of practicing 6 hours per week, but as said, i had prior advantages such as bowling in the back garden, between my hands, etc. i had one day where i was getting the ball to drift big and turn big, ball of the century style deliveries, and doing it every ball. so i found a club to play for. then for about 3 weeks i couldnt find any kind of form whatsoever lol.
theres no harm in joining a club early, obviously being the end of the season now you wont be joining until pre season. even if youre not ready to play, youre ready to practice! find a local club with good net facilities and a laid back bunch of guys. ideally a large club with plenty of teams as well (find a team with one league team and one friendly team and youll always struggle to get a chance and keep a place early on).
i cant hit a dinner plate yet, i can sometimes vary my line as i want to. more often than not i find a rhythm and the ball lands in the area i want it to, but i dont always have control of that, its purely a case of practicing the same deliveries over and over and my muscles remembering what to do.
3. lots to discuss with this point. firstly, some coaches advise youngsters to bowl top spinners first because its easier to get accuracy and good flight with this delivery. its a question of preference. dont worry about googlies at all though IMO, the risk of causing irrepairable damage to your action makes it risky. one or two per session wont hurt but dont focus on this delivery too much too early. the leg break is the important one. once youve got the leg break nailed start to think of variations. top spinners arent so risky.
i started out with a 2 walking step method, i also found a full run up problematic. i kept at this for quite a while, a month probably, before i even considered adding the run up. when i eventually did the run up came very naturally and took slight adjustments. definitely start out with the 2 step method, it will get your body, arm and wrist working correctly, then you can alter the body and legs later to compensate for the run up. sometimes il go back to the 2 step method to find my rhythm and then add the run up back in again. especially on new types of delivery, or when im trying to alter something in the action.
cocking the wrist is a personal preference thing. for my stock ball my wrist is fairly straight, i can move it around to vary the turn. go with whatever works. i find that if my wrist tightens up though (e.g. fatigue, getting angry with myself, etc) my action suffers, in both accuracy and spin. so having a loose wrist that is able to flick and rotate is quite important, thus cocking the wrist to some extent plays a part in most peoples bowling whether they notice it or not.
those are my thoughts, im sure youll get some more from others as well. everyone has their own methods though, im just sharing what my development process was. ive been playing for about 4 months now, and have played 4 club matches with mixed results (2 wickets from 14 overs at an average of 59. ive leaked runs at times, but its part of the learning process). i like to think ive developed my bowling very quickly though to a decent standard, if i can continue the development through the winter im targetting league cricket next season and to be a consistent wicket taker up among the best at the club. ive got a load of slow motion videos of my action on youtube, theres a thread on here with links to them all. maybe worth a look for some ideas, but its important to keep in mind that individuality is very important with leg spin, you cant simply copy someone else, you have to use what works for you. it never hurts to try other peoples methods though, i base most of what i try on Shane Warne, and most of the time copying him improves things.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)
GreasyPole that box you try and land in is better than the dinner plate. I agree you should try to spin the ball hard right from the start and take up spinning a ball, any ball you can lay your hands on constantly. if you put in 6 months effective practice there should be a team somewhere out there for you, finding the right one is up to you I suppose.
Funny you should say dinner plate as a target because dinner plate is the sized target Ashley Mallett said that someone like Kumble needs to hit whereas a big spinner like warne has a dinner table area to land the ball and cause problems. That sort of answers the question. As a general rule that the more you can really put some sidespin revs on the ball the more inaccurate, in a sense, you can afford to be.
I think jim said a hoola hoop as a target, that is more realistic and probably beneficial to start with. At the very beginning you need a line, imaginary or chalk etc that marks a too short ball. At the very beginning you need to avoid any underpitching and get well over that line and on the stumps rather than try bowling an off stump or legstump line at first.
GreasyPole that box you try and land in is better than the dinner plate. I agree you should try to spin the ball hard right from the start and take up spinning a ball, any ball you can lay your hands on constantly. if you put in 6 months effective practice there should be a team somewhere out there for you, finding the right one is up to you I suppose.
Funny you should say dinner plate as a target because dinner plate is the sized target Ashley Mallett said that someone like Kumble needs to hit whereas a big spinner like warne has a dinner table area to land the ball and cause problems. That sort of answers the question. As a general rule that the more you can really put some sidespin revs on the ball the more inaccurate, in a sense, you can afford to be.
I think jim said a hoola hoop as a target, that is more realistic and probably beneficial to start with. At the very beginning you need a line, imaginary or chalk etc that marks a too short ball. At the very beginning you need to avoid any underpitching and get well over that line and on the stumps rather than try bowling an off stump or legstump line at first.
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