Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

[leftie600]

I'll take that! Just had a look at him... Short run-up, very energetic through the crease and then interestingly falls away to his left.

Unfortunately that fall away and the resulting lack of spin on his legbreak pretty much ended his international career.

Still, pretty sure he's not complaining about a world cup win and being part of one of the great bowling attacks with Waqar and Akram!

 

[Cleanprophet]

Unfortunately that fall away and the resulting lack of spin on his legbreak pretty much ended his international career.

Still, pretty sure he's not complaining about a world cup win and being part of one of the great bowling attacks with Waqar and Akram!

I remember watching him in County Cricket in his last season and he bowled topspin/googlys about 90% of the time. His legspin moved away a small amount and became effective only as a change up, almost like the googly is supposed to be used.

 

[Cleanprophet]

This looks promising...

Some nice balls in there and a much better pace of bowling too. I can't take my eyes off that front arm however. It's just not being used at all and it's almost coming across to your right hip. That won't help with your balance issues. It is the balance that is causing you to get your line wrong from time to time.

The other thing that stands out is the small delivery stride. Again, that will effect balance. It almost looks like you are running through the crease and bowling the ball as you are running rather than hitting a delivery stride.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Some nice balls in there and a much better pace of bowling too. I can't take my eyes off that front arm however. It's just not being used at all and it's almost coming across to your right hip. That won't help with your balance issues. It is the balance that is causing you to get your line wrong from time to time.

The other thing that stands out is the small delivery stride. Again, that will effect balance. It almost looks like you are running through the crease and bowling the ball as you are running rather than hitting a delivery stride.

Yeah stuff I'm working on - arm first and then maybe the stride, going to film it side on today. To be honest I struggled with the arm, I'll have to see how it goes today. Although with the stride there are opinions that say that a big stride is not a good option (Beau Casson).

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Unfortunately that fall away and the resulting lack of spin on his legbreak pretty much ended his international career.

Still, pretty sure he's not complaining about a world cup win and being part of one of the great bowling attacks with Waqar and Akram!

He took a shed load of wickets though didn't he? Just looked -
"A bubbly, chubby legspinner with googlies aplenty, Mushtaq Ahmed is styled on his hero Abdul Qadir, whom he succeeded in the team. He is a matchwinner with a full house of legspin variations. At his best he is not far behind Shane Warne, but he does not get the in-drift and rip that makes Warne unique and he gets less bounce because of a lower arm". From
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/41316.html
I like that description and the fact that he bowls nothing like Warne. I think I've spent years trying to do stuff like Warne and the reality of the matter is that's never going to happen. The lack of drift warms my heart!!!

 

[boogiespinner]

totally struggling today... I had the ball fizzing like leftover cola.

I could bowl a legbreak following the right arm through to the right hip, though. It does tend towards topspin doing that but legspin is possible.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

totally struggling today... I had the ball fizzing like leftover cola.

I could bowl a legbreak following the right arm through to the right hip, though. It does tend towards topspin doing that but legspin is possible.

Happens mate 3 steps forwards and then 4 back. Had a another 2 hours today, this time with my son batting as well as the usual target practice. Wickets aplenty, but then he's not a batsman. Good though because it was on an artificial wicket with very little to offer in the way of helping with the spin, but still managed to get it to turn. A lot less balls leg-side too. I also batted and noticed a few things I can do to improve my batting.

 

[Cleanprophet]

I had a game today. My first game in 2 weeks and the first since I got my action sorted. I started off with my old approach of about 4 steps and it was coming out nicely. It was turning it big too. Been a while since I got the ball to turn big. I got two batters out both swinging across the line and against the spin - both lobbed up to square leg. Such a terrible shot to take on when the ball is turning big.

After a couple of overs I decided to go off the new 7 step run up (something I haven't tried with the legspin seemingly fixed). It felt very comfortable and came out nicely. Even when I tried to rip it, it was still turning it a good amount. I bowled one ball to a lefthanded slogger that was a cracking delivery. Drifted away and turned back in, hitting him on the back leg as he attempted to slog to leg. Absolutely plumb LBW on middle stump and the umpire said it was sliding down leg. I was fuming about that. It was compounded a couple of overs later when he slogged one up to midwicket who put it down. I ended up with 2 for 44 from 8, but it felt more like 4 for 25. I've had better figures and not felt quite so happy with my bowling.

I didn't try anything but legspinners either. Next season, I will bring back in the topspinners and googlys but for now I am sticking to the legspinners. One game left next week. I want to start playing at a higher level now because I'm sick of bowling to sloggers who play and miss and play and miss and play and miss again before miss hitting a slog for a couple of runs. You can only dominate a batter without reward for so long I find! I'd actually enjoy bowling to proper batters. In these friendly games, the bowlers who do well are those who bowl at the stumps at 60mph. The sloggers always get out to those types of bowlers. Against me, they just miss the ball. I may be able to develop the slider and that would sort a lot of them out. Right now, I can only bowl a ball with a decent amount of spin and until I'm 100% happy with my action, that spin will be legspin and nothing else.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I'm more than happy with the way this new bowling action is coming together, but looking at my arm speed and the whole overall energy of the 'Explosion' through the crease aspect it looks painfully slow. I wonder if there's anything I could do to increase it or do you reckon at 55 that's a bridge too far?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I had a game today. My first game in 2 weeks and the first since I got my action sorted. I started off with my old approach of about 4 steps and it was coming out nicely. It was turning it big too. Been a while since I got the ball to turn big. I got two batters out both swinging across the line and against the spin - both lobbed up to square leg. Such a terrible shot to take on when the ball is turning big.

After a couple of overs I decided to go off the new 7 step run up (something I haven't tried with the legspin seemingly fixed). It felt very comfortable and came out nicely. Even when I tried to rip it, it was still turning it a good amount. I bowled one ball to a lefthanded slogger that was a cracking delivery. Drifted away and turned back in, hitting him on the back leg as he attempted to slog to leg. Absolutely plumb LBW on middle stump and the umpire said it was sliding down leg. I was fuming about that. It was compounded a couple of overs later when he slogged one up to midwicket who put it down. I ended up with 2 for 44 from 8, but it felt more like 4 for 25. I've had better figures and not felt quite so happy with my bowling.

I didn't try anything but legspinners either. Next season, I will bring back in the topspinners and googlys but for now I am sticking to the legspinners. One game left next week. I want to start playing at a higher level now because I'm sick of bowling to sloggers who play and miss and play and miss and play and miss again before miss hitting a slog for a couple of runs. You can only dominate a batter without reward for so long I find! I'd actually enjoy bowling to proper batters. In these friendly games, the bowlers who do well are those who bowl at the stumps at 60mph. The sloggers always get out to those types of bowlers. Against me, they just miss the ball. I may be able to develop the slider and that would sort a lot of them out. Right now, I can only bowl a ball with a decent amount of spin and until I'm 100% happy with my action, that spin will be legspin and nothing else.

Sounds good and you're lucky to still have a couple of games yet to play I wish I did! I'm looking forward to the opposite, our team was promoted two years ago and we've been playing in a league where all the teams are pretty much better than us, we've won one game this year and I don't know how on earth we stayed up last year under my captaincy. But, we've been relegated to a lower league for 2016 and we're all looking forward to it as we might win a few! I'm looking forward to it for definite - I reckon wickets galore. Our team is a good bowling unit, we're just no good with the bat. In the league we've been in there has been some very solid and good batsmen, one bloke a couple of games ago hit his 100th century in our game and is in the Essex and England veterans team or something. So I wont miss those kind of blokes at all, although I had him dropped off of two balls as I recall - one was me when he was only on 20 something, but I had a totally knackered finger. Bring the sloggers on I say!

 

[boogiespinner]

I'm more than happy with the way this new bowling action is coming together, but looking at my arm speed and the whole overall energy of the 'Explosion' through the crease aspect it looks painfully slow. I wonder if there's anything I could do to increase it or do you reckon at 55 that's a bridge too far?

Well, Sydney Barnes was 55 when he took 7 for 51 and 5 for 67 against the West Indies playing for Wales! And he carried on bowling superlatively for another ten years... so keep the faith!

I am sure that you can improve... I don't know about trying to add a big 'explosion', I think that is something to increase gradually as your technique allows.

I still think there is something weak about your action from the shoulder down. It looks like you are getting definite turn and the pace looks pretty fair. Faster than me I dare say. But I think there are energy leaks. It looks to me like it's all arm, the body looks tight during release and you've got that strange exit stage left with the collapsed front leg.

Someone posted on one of your youtube vids about a drill where you bowl, off one pace (maybe more if you can?) and hold your follow through balanced on the front leg? I think that would be well worth trying for you, if you found it really hard, that would be precisely why it is right for you.

Sydney Barnes didn't say much about his bowling but passed on a secret to Hugh Tayfield.
"Don’t take any notice of anything anybody ever tells you!”

 

[Billywhizz]

I'm more than happy with the way this new bowling action is coming together, but looking at my arm speed and the whole overall energy of the 'Explosion' through the crease aspect it looks painfully slow. I wonder if there's anything I could do to increase it or do you reckon at 55 that's a bridge too far?

I'm not too far off your age Dave! I know it may sound crazy but one thing I try and do whilst bowling my faster legbreaks is Imagine I'm about to throw a javelin at full pace as I'm running up. Just visuallising the effort that that takes makes sure I utilise my whole body at the point of release. Sometimes I use the faster ball as my stock delivery on slower pitches. I even put a lot of grunt in to my stock legbreak and seem to make more noise than the fast bowlers.

Another thing I tend to find helpful is focusing on the target for the duration of the run up, and continuing at least two seconds after release - keeps everything going towards the target!

The last vid was better Dave

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I'm not too far off your age Dave! I know it may sound crazy but one thing I try and do whilst bowling my faster legbreaks is Imagine I'm about to throw a javelin at full pace as I'm running up. Just visuallising the effort that that takes makes sure I utilise my whole body at the point of release. Sometimes I use the faster ball as my stock delivery on slower pitches. I even put a lot of grunt in to my stock legbreak and seem to make more noise than the fast bowlers.

Another thing I tend to find helpful is focusing on the target for the duration of the run up, and continuing at least two seconds after release - keeps everything going towards the target!

The last vid was better Dave

Cheers Bill, I'm guessing you're following what I've been up to, it's all work in progress. I'll give that a go in future, I must admit the effort I'm putting into it at the moment isn't causing me to grunts and that is something I have done before. We've probably got a month here in the UK till it gets too wet and cold, I might try strengthening my shoulders and upper body and see if that helps as well in the next few weeks. Good to hear you're still at it and putting that much effort in.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Well, Sydney Barnes was 55 when he took 7 for 51 and 5 for 67 against the West Indies playing for Wales! And he carried on bowling superlatively for another ten years... so keep the faith!

I am sure that you can improve... I don't know about trying to add a big 'explosion', I think that is something to increase gradually as your technique allows.

I still think there is something weak about your action from the shoulder down. It looks like you are getting definite turn and the pace looks pretty fair. Faster than me I dare say. But I think there are energy leaks. It looks to me like it's all arm, the body looks tight during release and you've got that strange exit stage left with the collapsed front leg.

Someone posted on one of your youtube vids about a drill where you bowl, off one pace (maybe more if you can?) and hold your follow through balanced on the front leg? I think that would be well worth trying for you, if you found it really hard, that would be precisely why it is right for you.

Sydney Barnes didn't say much about his bowling but passed on a secret to Hugh Tayfield.
"Don’t take any notice of anything anybody ever tells you!”

That last bits funny in view of the whole premise of this thread and forum! That's fine, I guess we're all looking for ideas and input from people doing a similar thing and struggling in similar and same ways. The Sydney Barnes story is inspiration too.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

This is interesting, the bloke in this shot is a pro player (Asian bloke) have a look at how slow he bowls for a start.

 

[Billywhizz]

Cheers Bill, I'm guessing you're following what I've been up to, it's all work in progress. I'll give that a go in future, I must admit the effort I'm putting into it at the moment isn't causing me to grunts and that is something I have done before. We've probably got a month here in the UK till it gets too wet and cold, I might try strengthening my shoulders and upper body and see if that helps as well in the next few weeks. Good to hear you're still at it and putting that much effort in.

I started off in the 3rd team this year and worked my way up to the 1st's for a few games (there's 5 teams at our club) then descended back to the thirds. I still practice a lot and do quite a bit of running etc. I'm quite a skinny fella and have done very little strength work over the years, but I try and make sure I whip each ball in. The fast bowlers of years gone by (Michael Holding etc) were slender compared to the beefy lads today. I wouldnt worry about strength, just maximize the amount of 'body' that goes into and through each ball.

 

[Cleanprophet]

I still think there is something weak about your action from the shoulder down. It looks like you are getting definite turn and the pace looks pretty fair. Faster than me I dare say. But I think there are energy leaks. It looks to me like it's all arm, the body looks tight during release and you've got that strange exit stage left with the collapsed front leg.

Someone posted on one of your youtube vids about a drill where you bowl, off one pace (maybe more if you can?) and hold your follow through balanced on the front leg? I think that would be well worth trying for you, if you found it really hard, that would be precisely why it is right for you.

I agree with all that. It's not really about having that explosion but just having a bit more energy than it currently has. As you say, that explosion could come later, if needed.

 

[Cleanprophet]

This is interesting, the bloke in this shot is a pro player (Asian bloke) have a look at how slow he bowls for a start.

Dave, you've managed to find the my club and our club's pro:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/41421.html

He took 98 wickets this season in the Premier division (the league were you get a lot of decent pro's including a number of Lancs players like Kerrigan, Parry, Brown etc) at an average of 9.49. He would have taken over 100 but has gone home a couple of weeks early, missing the last two games, on account of being absolutely knackered after bowling 455 overs and carrying the team.

He's a very good bowler and had he been English would have been a Test player (probably should have played for Pakistan and would have done about 4 or 5 years ago but for politics and the usual selection issues with the PCB).

You're right, his approach is not a fast approach at all. What it is, and this really stands out, is balanced and rhythmical. Of course, he is also superb at reading the batsman and bowling a solid and consistent line and length. Above all else, it is his consistency that stands out. I've spoken a lot with the first team captain (a player himself who was with Lancs when he was younger) and he says he's the best spinner he's played with and against and he's played against a lot of international spinners.

I remember watching him bowl to Wasim Jaffer a couple of season's ago when Jaffer played for Formby (I think Jaffer averaged about 100 for the season!). He was very, very keen to get Jaffer out only to see a fielder put a catch down off Jaffer. A couple of overs later one of the seamers (a portly chap) got Jaffer's wicket and did an aeroplane celebration all over the pitch! Very funny.

 

[Cleanprophet]

I started off in the 3rd team this year and worked my way up to the 1st's for a few games (there's 5 teams at our club) then descended back to the thirds. I still practice a lot and do quite a bit of running etc. I'm quite a skinny fella and have done very little strength work over the years, but I try and make sure I whip each ball in. The fast bowlers of years gone by (Michael Holding etc) were slender compared to the beefy lads today. I wouldnt worry about strength, just maximize the amount of 'body' that goes into and through each ball.

Absolutely. Look at some of the Sri Lankan spinners (Herath is something of an exception). There's some very wirey spin bowlers in Sri Lanka and they used that to their advantage. If you are very slim, you should be able to use that to your advantage. It usually means that you can have a very quick arm. The beefier you are, the more you have to use your body and shoulders to generate arm speed.

 

[Cleanprophet]

I did about 30mins bowling in the nets today. It all felt good, but when I watched it back I was bowling those balls that are mostly topspin again. Something like 2 steps forward and 1 step back I suppose. Still more work ro be done to ensure I have full control over what I am bowling and what I am trying to bowl.

I use a decent little technique that often helps. Standing facing towards legslip. I have my arm out in the position it would be just before I flick open the wrist, but I have my arm down at shoulder height. I then move the arm forward and flick the ball across my chest towards my left shoulder, so that the ball is spinning out like a legspinner/sidespinner. Just gets my mind focused on the correct release. It's something I can do at home and something I'm going to have to do plenty of for a little while yet.