Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

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Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

distributer of pain;357073 said:
...bollingers to slow for mine, id rather bracken then bollinger if we must have a lefty...
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Bollinger is much quicker than bracken and pace is not the be all and end all, especially in England.

Also Johnson's form is not to do with his personal life, it's a flaw in his technique that is stopping him getting the seam up right. His action is too low for mine...
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

it's simple, Johnson leaks too many runs, drop him and don't bring him back until he get's his bowling right (gets the seam up). We can't have him in helbing England to 400+ all the time and losing us the ashes.

Also McDonald should be in for North...
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

i like the team i posted in the Third Test thread. it allows johnson to retain his place while he is still in good batting form anyway and help is bowling form (gameplay is the only way to get into form), while covering for his bad bowling with clark.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

ok, so we can give him a few extra games to get him into form and have him lose us the Ashes? Hell no! We lost the ashes last time doing this sort of thing.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

not to get him into form. he earned his spot fair and square and deserves to get a little trust from the selectors. thats why gillespie still got to play most of the ashes in 2005 before being dropped, despite having a bad one. he had shown that he worked through every bit of bad form and came back. in the end the selectors decided that the ashes were too big a stake to risk and had to drop him. if johnson suddenly goes well he will rip the english batsman apart. there are no real 'legendary figures', apart from flintoff and maybe strauss, amongst the english team now that would be able to fend off johnson at his best. just look at australia and you would notice that there are still players like ponting, hussey, lee and clark in or around the side, all figures who have proved they can be the best in the world at their individual things (not that im saying they are that now). england doesnt have that at the moment and for a bowler of johnsons class the selectors know that and know that if he snaps into form he could easily get himself a 5fa.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

Boris;358224 said:
not to get him into form. he earned his spot fair and square and deserves to get a little trust from the selectors. thats why gillespie still got to play most of the ashes in 2005 before being dropped, despite having a bad one.
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And that worked out well, didn't it? :D
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

we may have just lost the ashes by selecting Johnson. Lucky we won the toss, gives us hope.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

Caesar;358266 said:
And that worked out well, didn't it? :D
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just goes to show that rationality and sensibility doesnt always win matches and sometimes the other team is just better then you. england outplayed australia in 2005. it wasnt a case of australias team being bad and out of form, england's team was just better. its not possible for a whole team to be out of form. that would mean that bangladesh's team is always out of form because their batsman average 30 over a calendar year. its just that they are outplayed and it doesnt give individuals a chance to shine.


and if australia lose the ashes then theres always next year. cant win them all and knowing that you may just have saved a player from career ending bad form only to come back next year and rip the team to pieces isnt all bad.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

Boris;358353 said:
just goes to show that rationality and sensibility doesnt always win matches and sometimes the other team is just better then you...
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Or we selected a team that wasnt made up of our best in form players.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

in 2005 australia had one of its best teams ever. the majority of that team then went on to help win 16 tests in a row. it just so happened that a lot of the team was not only out of form but put out of form by the magnificent bowling and batting on display. remember it was a bloody close series anyway. except even if the whole team is out of form, selectors cannot drop everyone on just one or two matches performance. for example matthew hayden was out of form badly, but had just gone 2 years in a row scoring 1000 runs and had an average around 65 for both those years. then he mucks up in england, you cant drop him for that. the same with gillespie. he is rated as one of the best australian bowlers ever. in my mind he had the same talent as mcgrath, its just that he was human and had form lapses. the english conditions, ball and batsman put him out of form. the same has happened to johnson. after being around the best bowler in the world for 12-18 months and showing everyone he is unplayable, they just cant, both for performance reasons and ethical reasons, drop him yet. even if he should be its a bit hard to do that. and if he is out of form then siddle, hughes, hussey, and north to an extent shouldnt have played the second test as their performances showed one that they were out of form.

he is bowling much better in the third test anyway. i think he will be in the side for the fourth test.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

in 2005 Australia had Gillespie, Katich, Martyn, Taite, Kasper, who should have never played. Hussey and McGill didn't play. Nor did Hodge.

We waited to make changes after the series when it was lost. After those changes we were good and smashed them in Australia. Realy says something.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

gillespie shouldnt have played? with all respect that is one of the worst pieces of cricketing knowledge there. he was doing well and in form before the 05 ashes. he is rated in the top 10 best australian bowlers ever, easily makes all best team ever drafts, called one of the best support bowlers ever, has stats better then mcgrath with consideration to the time frame he played and the injuries and two major pieces of bad form (one ending his career wrongfully). and he shouldnt have played?

i can understand katich, he wasnt quite suited to the team. martyn is a superb batsman, rates in my top 5 of the last decade. kaspa was doing well and earnt his spot, and i like his bowling, but yes i probably would have played mcgill. but that happens with every team. tait looked promising and the experiment didnt pay off. hussey wasnt quite in the picture then and hodge was vying for pontings, clarkes and martyns position, which were filled already. you cant drop a whole team because they are suddenly out of form. a whole team doesnt go out of form. a whole team gets thrashed time and time again by a better team. and it was a very close series anyway.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

gillespie shouldnt have played? with all respect that is one of the worst pieces of cricketing knowledge there. he was doing well and in form before the 05 ashes. - no the couple of series leading up he struggled IIRC

martyn is a superb batsman. - Yes but had struggled for a fair few series pre 05 ashes, bowlers had him well worked out, he was done well before the 05 ashes.

kaspa was doing well and earnt his spot - was doing alright, nothing special, not suited to England

but yes i probably would have played mcgill - a no brainer to me

tait looked promising and the experiment didnt pay off. - was always a big gamble and expirement

hussey wasnt quite in the picture - Why? He definatly should have been

y. you cant drop a whole team because they are suddenly out of form.
- Then why were these players dropped after the series?
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

gillespie was the finest support bowler of the past 20 years at least. he was and probably still is better then anything australia has now. he was always in contention. like if mcgrath had a bad lead up to the ashes he still would have gotten a go. just a few bad matches like johnson had adjusting to english conditions.

it was also similar with others. martyn had a good run for australia and was on the brink of being dropped, but his past performances kept him there. it just so happened this happened with those couple of key players.

england is the second hardest place, after australia, to visit and play cricket. its hard to adjust.

hussey should have been playing a long long time ago, but like brad hodge he couldnt break into the side. there just wasnt an opening.

and those players were dropped after the series because of the selectors embarressment and public pressure. after any other series they had a chance of being safe.

we cant right wrongs from back then and this is way off topic.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

Australia isn't a hard place to tour. Our pitches are fairly benign, particularly in the last decade.

The subcontinent is far harder to tour than either Australia or England.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

India and Pakistan would have to be harder, perhaps not for batsmen. but batsmen don't win you test matches. its your ability to take 20 wickets that does.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

i was referring to statistics. if you are touring australia you are obviously playing against australia. where is the one place that australians absolutely whole heartedly hate to lose? australia. where are australian fans, which have very clever ways of insulting and abusing the opposite team without them being arrested? australia. the pitches may be roads (although the bounce gets a lot of batsman new to the place), but the weather is very very different from one end of the country to the other. play in brisbane and you will be sweating like hell and cant breathe because of the humidity. play in adelaide and you will be sweating like hell, but that sweat burning right off your skin while you watch yourself go black. just think if you came from england in the winter into 35 degree days with 98% humidity? the grounds are huge compared to other countries in general. im not saying australia is a hard place to play, its just a hard place to adjust, and if you can beat any australian team, whether it be australia, australia a, or a state side in australia, then you are one hell of a team.

same goes for england in a way. not the easiest team to beat at home.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

I don't think Australia's home record has much to do with the conditions. We generally produce fairly standard pitches, and while Australia in summer is hot, it's no India or Pakistan.

Touring England or the subcontinent requires players to adjust significantly to the very unique conditions of those countries. Playing in Australia is not substantially different to the West Indies or SA.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

im not talking conditions wise, im talking opposition wise and australias hatred of losing in australia.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

Boris;358565 said:
gillespie shouldnt have played? with all respect that is one of the worst pieces of cricketing knowledge there. he was doing well and in form before the 05 ashes. he is rated in the top 10 best australian bowlers ever, easily makes all best team ever drafts, called one of the best support bowlers ever, has stats better then mcgrath with consideration to the time frame he played and the injuries and two major pieces of bad form (one ending his career wrongfully). and he shouldnt have played?

i can understand katich, he wasnt quite suited to the team. martyn is a superb batsman, rates in my top 5 of the last decade. kaspa was doing well and earnt his spot, and i like his bowling, but yes i probably would have played mcgill. but that happens with every team. tait looked promising and the experiment didnt pay off. hussey wasnt quite in the picture then and hodge was vying for pontings, clarkes and martyns position, which were filled already. you cant drop a whole team because they are suddenly out of form. a whole team doesnt go out of form. a whole team gets thrashed time and time again by a better team. and it was a very close series anyway.
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Didn't Hussey make 200-odd against the Aussies in a tour game?
 
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