Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
- Thread starter grapedo
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mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
Sobers wasn't merely a spin bowler, he was also a medium fast left armer. Also, he was picked as mainly as a bowler at the start of his career.
grapedo;313642 said:
Sobers wasn't merely a spin bowler, he was also a medium fast left armer. Also, he was picked as mainly as a bowler at the start of his career.
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
By which time he had evolved into something else. Gibbs was a great player but how would he have fared without Sobers and vice versa? Bowlers tend to hunt in packs, so it's very hard to surmise what they're affect would be if removed from that pack.
You can analyse it how you want but I say (that is, my opinion) that he would have made the team on bowling. He brought to much to attack to be ignored.
By which time he had evolved into something else. Gibbs was a great player but how would he have fared without Sobers and vice versa? Bowlers tend to hunt in packs, so it's very hard to surmise what they're affect would be if removed from that pack.
You can analyse it how you want but I say (that is, my opinion) that he would have made the team on bowling. He brought to much to attack to be ignored.
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
Well I can't see how he would have been picked for his bowling solely on a regular basis especially when they had a better spinner. I think it is a bit unfair on Gibbs to say that because he was a skilfull bowler.
And they would not have picked two spinners unless they were in India. As I have said it would have been like a Warne MAcgill situation.
But Kallis on the other hand would still be one of South Africa's best bowlers even if he wasn't a great batsman.
mas cambios;313662 said:
Well I can't see how he would have been picked for his bowling solely on a regular basis especially when they had a better spinner. I think it is a bit unfair on Gibbs to say that because he was a skilfull bowler.
And they would not have picked two spinners unless they were in India. As I have said it would have been like a Warne MAcgill situation.
But Kallis on the other hand would still be one of South Africa's best bowlers even if he wasn't a great batsman.
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
Please do not compare Dravid with Kallis. Dravid has already surpassed 10K runs. Kallis has yet to do it. Dravid played dull for a reason. He was the one. The only one that could hold the fort. Period.
I will agree Kallis is a remarkable player as is Sir Garfield Sobers. I also beleive Imran Khan and Ian Botham were remarkable all rounders as well.
Please do not compare Dravid with Kallis. Dravid has already surpassed 10K runs. Kallis has yet to do it. Dravid played dull for a reason. He was the one. The only one that could hold the fort. Period.
I will agree Kallis is a remarkable player as is Sir Garfield Sobers. I also beleive Imran Khan and Ian Botham were remarkable all rounders as well.
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
grapedo;313668 said:
D.K
Active Member
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
Sobers could bowl all types of actions. Fast, medium swings/seamers, spin. Just quality player who could take apart an attack with the bat also.
Kallis has been a great servent of the Sth African team. But you can't quote history stats for him because of Sth Africa's expulsion from international cricket during the aparthied. They don't have the same history as other countries which is a shame as I feel it doesn't give a true indication of his playing ability.
Kallis is behind definetly Sobers with the bat. Maybe even Botham on match turning ability alone. And with the ball I would have Hadlee, Khan, Sobers and Miller all picked in front of him.
Isn't there a reason that nearly every single person who selects a greatest eleven of all time has Sober as their number 2 choice? I am yet to see a team with Kallis going close in it.
Sobers could bowl all types of actions. Fast, medium swings/seamers, spin. Just quality player who could take apart an attack with the bat also.
Kallis has been a great servent of the Sth African team. But you can't quote history stats for him because of Sth Africa's expulsion from international cricket during the aparthied. They don't have the same history as other countries which is a shame as I feel it doesn't give a true indication of his playing ability.
Kallis is behind definetly Sobers with the bat. Maybe even Botham on match turning ability alone. And with the ball I would have Hadlee, Khan, Sobers and Miller all picked in front of him.
Isn't there a reason that nearly every single person who selects a greatest eleven of all time has Sober as their number 2 choice? I am yet to see a team with Kallis going close in it.
The Edge Of Willow
Member
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
Sobers is the best in my opinion.
Sobers is the best in my opinion.
breeno
Active Member
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
Sobers but only just. The differences between Kallis Bowling vs Sobers Bowling is that from what I've heard/read, Sobers could tear a team apart with the ball, Kallis simply doesn't do that. Sobers also had the other weapon of being able to bowl Medium Fast/Spin.
Sobers batting was also better, I would have it:
Sobers
Kallis
Botham
Hadlee
As the top four all rounders.
Sobers but only just. The differences between Kallis Bowling vs Sobers Bowling is that from what I've heard/read, Sobers could tear a team apart with the ball, Kallis simply doesn't do that. Sobers also had the other weapon of being able to bowl Medium Fast/Spin.
Sobers batting was also better, I would have it:
Sobers
Kallis
Botham
Hadlee
As the top four all rounders.
Buddy23#
Member
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
Firstly great topic, Kallis is good,but i don't care what statistics
you throw up, Ian Botham is a better cricketer easily. Kallis plays for his average which is fair enough. I ask this question who out of these players would you pay money to watch? Kallis would be last on that basis in my view.
Firstly great topic, Kallis is good,but i don't care what statistics
you throw up, Ian Botham is a better cricketer easily. Kallis plays for his average which is fair enough. I ask this question who out of these players would you pay money to watch? Kallis would be last on that basis in my view.
Mousey
New Member
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
Sobers is the best allrounder ever because:
- He was an outstanding batsman; could be picked purely as a batsman
- He could be picked purely as a bowler; either as a spinner (left-arm orthodox and left-arm chinamen/unorthodox) or quick (left arm fast medium).
- He was a fantastic fieldsman
Sobers ability to influence the game as a batsman, spinner, quick or fielder is unrivaled. He could open the bowling or bowl some spinners, whether wrist or finger spin. He could make big scores (he avergaved about 58) and he could do some incredible things. He was the first to hit 6 sixes in a first-class over, he hit a magical 150-odd for the World XI. Don't try to make the point he wouldn't be picked as a bowler because in his first games he was. In his first match he batted at 9. Don't forget he could also open the bowling. The variety he gave the West Indies would easily be reason enough for his selection.
Sobers is the best allrounder ever because:
- He was an outstanding batsman; could be picked purely as a batsman
- He could be picked purely as a bowler; either as a spinner (left-arm orthodox and left-arm chinamen/unorthodox) or quick (left arm fast medium).
- He was a fantastic fieldsman
Sobers ability to influence the game as a batsman, spinner, quick or fielder is unrivaled. He could open the bowling or bowl some spinners, whether wrist or finger spin. He could make big scores (he avergaved about 58) and he could do some incredible things. He was the first to hit 6 sixes in a first-class over, he hit a magical 150-odd for the World XI. Don't try to make the point he wouldn't be picked as a bowler because in his first games he was. In his first match he batted at 9. Don't forget he could also open the bowling. The variety he gave the West Indies would easily be reason enough for his selection.
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
Lance Gibbs didn't make his debut until 4 years after Sobers so that is why he was picked as a spin bowler early on. Also What apart from spin bowling out of the things that you highlighted did Sobers do that Kallis couldn't or didn't.Mousey;313971 said:
breeno
Active Member
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
Sobers could turn a game on it's head with both bat and ball.
You can only count on Kallis for 2 or 3 wickets an innings.
Kallis sits in slip all day (albeit a good catcher) but Sobers was Symonds like in the field.
Sobers would have been picked for his bowling even if he couldn't bat, I'm not too sure that at the moment, whether Kallis would be picked purely on his bowling.
grapedo;314128 said:
Sobers could turn a game on it's head with both bat and ball.
You can only count on Kallis for 2 or 3 wickets an innings.
Kallis sits in slip all day (albeit a good catcher) but Sobers was Symonds like in the field.
Sobers would have been picked for his bowling even if he couldn't bat, I'm not too sure that at the moment, whether Kallis would be picked purely on his bowling.
Re: Is Kallis the best allrounder ever
Well when South africa toured england last year Kallis was one of the best bowlers and was not batting up to scratch. Kallis can also turn a game on its head with both bat and ball as can many other players mentioned in this thread. And I question Sobers ability on the field to that of Symonds too mate.
breeno;314132 said:
Well when South africa toured england last year Kallis was one of the best bowlers and was not batting up to scratch. Kallis can also turn a game on its head with both bat and ball as can many other players mentioned in this thread. And I question Sobers ability on the field to that of Symonds too mate.