Late Swing

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Auzayr

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Late Swing

Hi,
Currently I get a fair amount of outswing, however, what my problem is that the ball starts to swing to early so that by the time the ball has reached the batsman he has adjusted himself. What I want to know is how can I swing the ball late so that batsman gets fooled. I have tried keeping a firm steady seam but the ball still swings too early. I hope you can undertand what I am saying.

Thanks
 
Re: Late Swing

your only 15, that will come with practice not even waqar younis or wasim akram cud swing it late when they're 15, even getting the ball to swing at all is amazing...
 
Re: Late Swing

I have heard that having a straight seam on bowling and a high arm help in the ball swinging late.
Somewhere on google, even though i'm not sure if it's valid, I found two pages of info where they say the angle of the seam increases by 20 deg when it gets closer to the batsman, and so if you had a straighter seam the ball would swing late.

Most traditional coaches tell you the thing on straight seam and high-arm. I'm not sure if it's true - but maybe you should just try out for yourself and see what's working -- try new things... :D
Cheers
 
Re: Late Swing

It's to do with the arm, a high arm will help to produce late swing, a lower arm will help swing from the 'hand'.

Anderson is a good example of late swing, Hoggard for early swing.
 
Re: Late Swing

Agreeing with Mas, late swing, in my opinion, comes from a high bowling arm (of course not too high that it is past the perpendicular!) and a full shoulder rotation - involving the bowling arm hitting your side and the non bowling arm pointing to the sky after follow through.

I also urge people to not be confused by watching Waqar Younis' late swing with a low arm. It must be noted that he has a very good side on action and his late swing is 'reverse swing' which by definition is late.
 
Re: Late Swing

I disagree its to do with the arm. I think its down to the underspin of the ball- ie more is better. Take the following into account:

1- Curtley ambrose, courtney walsh pollock, mgrath- tall men with high actions all not noted for late swing.

2- Watch jimmy anderson and dale steyns seam positons- and notice the revolutions on the ball- and we all know the results.

3- Watch warne at his best- fircely spun leg breaks- watch the seam, the amount of revlutions and notice how the ball dips/ swings to leg LATE.

I think swing is all in the wrist and fingers.
 
Re: Late Swing

It's to do with a number of things, arm position, wrist position and the atmospheric conditions amongst others.

They believe that swing is due to micro climates of air, going across the wicket. The amount of spin, air resistance and condition of the ball will all have a say in how the ball reacts when it hits one of these 'climates'.

Now, if the ball is coming from a high arm position, it may have further to travel (downwards) before it hits one of these areas, hence later swing. On the other hand, from a lower position it may have less to travel, hence the swing from the hand.

Of course, it all depends on where these pockets are located and at what point they start to have an effect.

You're correct in saying that people like Walsh and McGrath weren't noted for their late swing but there are the other factors to take into account. McGrath was never a big swinger of the ball for example, relying on subtle movement (often a third to a half of a width of a bat) to get wickets. It was the lack of exaggerated swing that probably made him so successful.

Getting back to my point, then these people are exceptions to the norm. There are a set of 'best case' criteria, which when all ticked should produce late swing, however, some people will tick all the boxes and do something different, others may only tick half the boxes and achieve the results - it's what makes cricket such a great game and able to create a level playing field no matter what the standard.
 
Re: Late Swing

mas cambios said:
... these people are exceptions to the norm. There are a set of 'best case' criteria, which when all ticked should produce late swing, however, some people will tick all the boxes and do something different, others may only tick half the boxes and achieve the results - it's what makes cricket such a great game and able to create a level playing field no matter what the standard.
Click to expand...

Well said! That's exactly why cricket is such a fascinating game - and many people totally overlook that beauty!
 
Re: Late Swing

i still dont agree. For me it comes down to what your wrist and fingers do to the ball.
 
Re: Late Swing

Of course, but you won't get your fingers in a straight line behind the ball if you have a rounded arm.
 
Re: Late Swing

Who said anything about a "rounded" arm? but explain how malinga swings it, and fidel edwards? or how warne gets drift? then explain to me why bowlers with lower arms can swing it more than bowlers with higher arms?
 
Re: Late Swing

I'm just saying that the arm position partially controls that of the fingers and the wrist, which you mentioned.
 
Re: Late Swing

sorry swinger but im with manee high arm=late swing, i only think that because im 6ft4 bowl with a really high arm and i'm not a massive swinger of the ball but i get it to angle about just b4 the batsmen where as my 1st change bowler has a lower arm and gets it to outswing almost immediatly. i just think when u bowler with a lower arm like hoggard u push it more with the trajectory of the arm rotation giving it a greater chance to go earlier, when u high arm you kind of force it straight down easier but keep the seam more upright giving it a chance 2 move later.
 
Re: Late Swing

and another thing, drift isn't swing, i can't be arsed at midnight 2 go into vectors etc, but did u notice how it always moved into the right hander in the air 4 a regular leggy and sometimes moved away from the righthander when he bowled a googly? It's caused by him putting enough revs on the ball to over power the natural traj. of the ball to push it one way or the other THIS IS THE MAGNUS EFFECT "Magnus effect is not responsible for the movement of the cricket ball seen in swing bowling (except in rare cases and in bowling machines), although it does contribute to the motion known as drift in spin bowling. Whereas Kumble with a high arm action can swing it! But he does it as he keeps his arm high and the seam str8 when he bowls his straight one or topspinner, so obvioulsy batsmen dont know wether its drift and going to turn or simple swing and go str8 on? Malinga gets his out swing from his hand and action by forcing it he get his inswing from the Magnus effect( general knowledge: the same way bowling ball machines get swing by forcing friction on the ball on the opposite side u want it to swing e.g when malinga wants inswing he will grip the left side of the ball, as it is from the bowlers poit of view, very bias and firm caousing the Magnus effect);god i listen too much in physics. Ewt else ask? if u no of eny mistakes tell me but it is 00:15 now
 
Re: Late Swing

swinger said:
i still dont agree. For me it comes down to what your wrist and fingers do to the ball.
Click to expand...

It's a part of the process but not the be all and end all. Wrist position enables the ball to be in the correct alignment in order to swing, it won't necessary dictate when the swing will occur. What happens once the ball has left the hand is down to numerous factors. We can only present an 'ideal' case for what should happen in each scenario, but there will always be exceptions to the rule.

As for you post asking why lower actions swing the ball more, then if the proposed reason behind why a ball swings is correct; balls from lower actions will spend longer in the 'active zone', hence the increased swing.
 
Re: Late Swing

I think I might've had my first experience of reverse swing. I normally bowl outswing (or so I thought last week anyway) and this week I was bowling it with an outswing grip and the shiny side set to give outswing but it apparently swung in :confused: Either I was doing something different that I didn't pick up, or something wierd and reverse-swingy happened.

The other thing is that 2 years ago I got outswing when I was just trying to bowl it straight, last year I just tried to hit the seam because I seemed to get seam movement too and then this year I've been told I have an action that naturally generates inswing - so basically, I bowl the same and any chuffing thing could happen, I really don't know what kind of bowler I am anymore :confused:
 
Re: Late Swing

Let's keep it simple. What I would suggest is get a ball, try out every single thing in the nets with a new ball (if you have enough supply of new balls). See what works - it's just that simple - trial & error.
 
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