ODI XI Selection Thread

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Re: Australian ODI XI - Selection Thread

It doesn't seem as if CA are wanting to seriously win it, Australia are going in down on Watson, Ponting and Johnson as they are all off with rests. With Tait and Haddin injured as well makes for an interesting squad...

Michael Clarke (capt), Cameron White, Doug Bollinger, Callum Ferguson, Nathan Hauritz, James Hopes, Mike Hussey, Shaun Marsh, Clint McKay, Tim Paine (wk), James Pattinson, Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, David Warner

So from that I would come to the conclusion:
1. S.Marsh
2. T.Paine
3. C.White
4. M.Clarke
5. M.Hussey
6. C.Ferguson
7. J.Hopes/S.Smith
8. N.Hauritz
9. C.McKay
10. J.Pattinson/M.Starc
11. D.Bollinger

I don't like the bowling attack being so weak, plus the only other option is Hopes/Smith, and they tend to either have a good day or a bad day, and then I don't know what other options you have in reality, White doesn't bowl anymore, Clarke has a bad back, and I can't remember if Ferguson bowls or not (I'm thinking not). Then we're down to Hussey... enough said. I'd be playing Hopes in that case for his experience and his bowling is always of a good standard. Smith has been a little all over the shop throughout his short career so far.

If I lived in a world where I had free reign to do what I want, I'd experiment with this to see what would happen:

1. Warner
2. Hopes
3. White
4. Clarke
5. Ferguson
6. Hussey
7. Paine
8. Smith
9. Hauritz
10. McKay
11. Bollinger

The selectors are testing the depth of the side by resting those senior players and choosing a small squad such as this when they rotate so much as they have been doing. All 14 will be playing at some stage one would think.
 
That top team's top 4 could be extremely stodgy unless Shaun Marsh starts pulling his finger out when opening. I prefer the second in some ways. I suppose with both the bowling looks very light.
 
Pattinson's out with injury, fellow Victorian John Hastings goes across as his replacement.
 
It's the kiss of death for a bowler getting a call-up for Aus. In the past 2 years, how many bowlers have been injured?

Hastings will probably trip over in the nets first warm-up. Anyway, I sure as hell hope he doesn't play. He'll be dead meat if they pick their big guns.
 
Going to raise this once again... Brett Lee.

The media are talking him up and for good reason too. I have watched his last game and he looked mighty threatening, and a Johnson, Bollinger, Lee line-up is looking pretty good to me. For out and out entertainment... Johnson, Lee, Tait :D

He is bowling quick too, easily the quickest man in the Aussie squad (barring Tait of course, but he's injured anyway). He's going to be playing for NSW all season so we should be able to look at the longevity side of things after a few more games.

The media is talking him up for the Sri Lanka series starting later this month, but that might be a little early. Siddle is coming back then too, but I don't think much of him as an ODI bowler.
 
Boris said:
Re: Australian ODI XI - Selection Thread

OK this thread has been dead for quite a while, time to get some life back into it with some 50 over cricket on the way soon.

... I have a few questions to raise.

1. Siddle. He's coming back this series coming against India. Should he be included in the ODI squad, and if so whose spot should he take?

No

2. Shaun Marsh/James Hopes. I really like both of these guys, and both for very different reasons. Problem is, though, they both don't seem to be able to fit into the one team. Which one, both or neither would you want in the team?

Hmmm... probably Hopes. Marsh doesn't do it for me. I think nowadays you have to bat with a bit more urgency than he does. Hopes has a crack with bat & ball, reliable & versatile if not necessarily a match-winner.

3. White. I like him too, but he doesn't seem to fit in. He plays some good innings, but not consistently. He also has a terrible technique and I see him get out in a lot of stupid ways. Should he be in the side?

Yes, definitely. Has become an integral member of the team. I think that has been demonstrated enough. I just wish he would bowl and continue to improve that area of his game.

4. Voges. What's he doing there? Good domestic player, but really?

I ask the same questions.

5. Steve Smith. He seems alright at this stage, not really sure what he can do. Hauritz definitely still has it over him at the moment IMO. Would you have him in the team, either as replacement to Hauritz or as a second spinner/all rounder?

Depending on opposition/venue, I'd have him in ahead of Hauritz. Otherwise perhaps he could play in addition to. Not sure if that answers your question but I'd have him in.

6. Tait. Love watching him bowl, but can he handle the rigours of the longer stuff?

Depends how much of it there is to play these days. If the schedule is packed with this sort of cricket, then no.

And finally,

7. What's your side (with a couple of replacements for the rotational scheme they seem to have)?

Mine is:
1. Watson - Watson
2. Marsh - Hodge
3. Ponting - Ponting
4. Clarke - Clarke
5. Hussey - Hussey
6. Haddin - White
7. Hopes - Haddin
8. Hauritz - Smith
9. Johnson - Johnson
10. Harris - Harris
11. Bollinger - Bollinger

But that won't happen of course. Not in India. Not in Australia.

.
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I agree with you on White there, but I can't help but feel he is now in the same position as Clarke - he's been targeted for future captaincy and therefore is undroppable in all forms he plays in. He's never really made much of an impact in T20 at any point, and with ODIs he has had one good season that waned at the end. I don't think he should be a lock in already when there are guys like Marsh on the edges who I'd rate with the same prospective batting talent at this stage and a better record.

I'm also not sure on Smith ahead of Hauritz. Hauritz has been pretty good in ODIs of late and wouldn't drop him for Smith. I would play Smith, however, alongside him if I could find the room to do so, but at this stage I can't find someone to give way.

Also I think you know my stance on Hodge. Would absolutely without a doubt say yes if he was even two years younger, maybe even one. He wants to play the World Cup and then retire. Plus his record in India isn't the greatest (at international level), I know he would improve on that but the subcontinent would be literally the only place he would play for the rest of his prospective career.
 
I guess I've chosen a prime moment to comment on any argument about Marsh v White, but I don't base my opinion on one match (hopefully you saw it anyway and might be warming to the bloke). White's last 2 years have been by far his best, in particular 2010 has been most productive. Yes he gets out in dumb ways sometimes, but you've got to cut someone some slack if they're going to clear the boundary as he does - as you would have with Gilchrist, Symonds, etc.

As for T20's I would have thought that is where his real value is. Again, he has got better & better in that form. Avge of 37 at 143 S/R is pretty good isn't it? Despite what I think of Mike Hussey, he is a very good T20 player down the order, and he averages less than that.

I don't know that he's undroppable. He really hasn't gone that badly that the question would have been raised yet. Prospective captain perhaps, but I don't know how he's going to do that with Michael Clarke tying up that spot for most of the next decade.

Marsh is okay, but if you're talking about blokes who have made much of an impact ...
His average is okay, his strike rate just. His ability to win a game for you minimal. As I've said before, guys at the top of the order should have good averages, as they get the best opportunity to settle in for some runs. I'm not sure these 2 should be compared anyway, they have completely different roles.

Hodge won't play again. Anyone who can start the season as he has - on the back of so many similar performances - should surely have the credentials to make that side though.
 
I still don't really get why they open with Marsh. He appears to just eff around when you give him a whole innings to work with. If they must play him bring him in later where he has to hit as he has the ability to hit very cleanly. We are never going to see it when he opens though, I don't think he copes well with the responsibility of getting the innings going. I've never yet seen him play an innings as opener where he doesn't block or leave most deliveries he faces for the first few overs.
 
Sober Symonds said:
I guess I've chosen a prime moment to comment on any argument about Marsh v White, but I don't base my opinion on one match (hopefully you saw it anyway and might be warming to the bloke). White's last 2 years have been by far his best, in particular 2010 has been most productive. Yes he gets out in dumb ways sometimes, but you've got to cut someone some slack if they're going to clear the boundary as he does - as you would have with Gilchrist, Symonds, etc.

As for T20's I would have thought that is where his real value is. Again, he has got better & better in that form. Avge of 37 at 143 S/R is pretty good isn't it? Despite what I think of Mike Hussey, he is a very good T20 player down the order, and he averages less than that.

I don't know that he's undroppable. He really hasn't gone that badly that the question would have been raised yet. Prospective captain perhaps, but I don't know how he's going to do that with Michael Clarke tying up that spot for most of the next decade.

Marsh is okay, but if you're talking about blokes who have made much of an impact ...
His average is okay, his strike rate just. His ability to win a game for you minimal. As I've said before, guys at the top of the order should have good averages, as they get the best opportunity to settle in for some runs. I'm not sure these 2 should be compared anyway, they have completely different roles.

Hodge won't play again. Anyone who can start the season as he has - on the back of so many similar performances - should surely have the credentials to make that side though.
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Yep, perfect timing to argue for White, definitely saw that :D

I have always held him of high regard (a little more now), I just didn't like the way he could play a couple of games, score a century but fail in many other innings and be considered a regular. I do grant to you though, his 37 (was 35 before the last game) average was mostly because when he first came into the Australian squad he was playing around no.7 and would only get to face a couple of balls (but when he got more he never succeeded). Wasn't until he was right up the order that he started playing well so the average is down on what it should be.

I have him in my team now, but my question is, what role does he play?

Does he come in at 5-6 as a finisher who can hit big? Or does he come in at 4 or 3 when Ponting isn't there and put together a bigger more sensible innings? He has shown he can do both, but not consistently. I would always like to play Hussey as late as possible due to his incredible finishing powers (although he can do absolutely anything), but can White be a little more sensible and fix up a couple of the holes in his technique? I think that's why he won't play Test cricket, on a green top after rain on day 3, playing across the line will ensure your stay is short.

As for Marsh, I like him because he is sensible. He can open the innings and bat at 70-80 strike rate for 35 overs and get you a hundred. Meanwhile at the other end you can have someone like Watson or even Warner who can make up for his slower batting. Marsh can anchor ship, is what I'm saying, and be consistent (which is what I'm judging him on, his consistency). I don't expect him to play next game, Warner will probably get a run opening considering he has been talked up and wasn't flown to India for nothing. Going to be interesting to see how he goes.
 
Boris said:
Yep, perfect timing to argue for White, definitely saw that :D

I have always held him of high regard (a little more now), I just didn't like the way he could play a couple of games, score a century but fail in many other innings and be considered a regular. I do grant to you though, his 37 (was 35 before the last game) average was mostly because when he first came into the Australian squad he was playing around no.7 and would only get to face a couple of balls (but when he got more he never succeeded). Wasn't until he was right up the order that he started playing well so the average is down on what it should be.

I have him in my team now, but my question is, what role does he play?

Does he come in at 5-6 as a finisher who can hit big? Or does he come in at 4 or 3 when Ponting isn't there and put together a bigger more sensible innings? He has shown he can do both, but not consistently. I would always like to play Hussey as late as possible due to his incredible finishing powers (although he can do absolutely anything), but can White be a little more sensible and fix up a couple of the holes in his technique? I think that's why he won't play Test cricket, on a green top after rain on day 3, playing across the line will ensure your stay is short.

As for Marsh, I like him because he is sensible. He can open the innings and bat at 70-80 strike rate for 35 overs and get you a hundred. Meanwhile at the other end you can have someone like Watson or even Warner who can make up for his slower batting. Marsh can anchor ship, is what I'm saying, and be consistent (which is what I'm judging him on, his consistency). I don't expect him to play next game, Warner will probably get a run opening considering he has been talked up and wasn't flown to India for nothing. Going to be interesting to see how he goes.
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Why would you need Marsh to do that though? Plus, he doesn't very often. He mostly gets out for about 20 off about 30 balls it seems to me. He looks great, then has a brain fade, the other day was a classic example of how he loses it all of a sudden, except that to give him his due, for once he wasn't looking great before that leaden footed mis-shot at all.
 
Beeswax said:
Why would you need Marsh to do that though? Plus, he doesn't very often. He mostly gets out for about 20 off about 30 balls it seems to me. He looks great, then has a brain fade, the other day was a classic example of how he loses it all of a sudden, except that to give him his due, for once he wasn't looking great before that leaden footed mis-shot at all.
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When he first started out playing for Australia he was very, very consistent, just kept getting 70s and 80s, and a couple of 100s. This went on for about 10 games against South Africa and whoever else was over here at the time. He never got them overly quickly, but he put on runs in the background and would set up a platform for the lower order to launch from. He has lost his touch now it seems, but what I saw of him then impressed me.

In ODIs you need a couple of people to do what Clarke did in that last game, bat through to the latter 30 overs and set up a platform to launch from, like White did. You don't need to be able to bat at a strike rate of 100. What happened with Gilchrist and Hayden I think was really a one off, and you don't need blindingly attacking players to start the innings. I always like having one 'anchor' and another 'destroyer'. So in essence, not Paine and Marsh together in that last game ;). Watson can get 70 off 60 balls easily, but there are 300 balls in an ODI and you want someone to give that platform for the last 10 overs.
 
Boris said:
When he first started out playing for Australia he was very, very consistent, just kept getting 70s and 80s, and a couple of 100s. This went on for about 10 games against South Africa and whoever else was over here at the time. He never got them overly quickly, but he put on runs in the background and would set up a platform for the lower order to launch from. He has lost his touch now it seems, but what I saw of him then impressed me.

In ODIs you need a couple of people to do what Clarke did in that last game, bat through to the latter 30 overs and set up a platform to launch from, like White did. You don't need to be able to bat at a strike rate of 100. What happened with Gilchrist and Hayden I think was really a one off, and you don't need blindingly attacking players to start the innings. I always like having one 'anchor' and another 'destroyer'. So in essence, not Paine and Marsh together in that last game ;). Watson can get 70 off 60 balls easily, but there are 300 balls in an ODI and you want someone to give that platform for the last 10 overs.
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Whilst it sounds reassuring to have someone playing an anchor role, I think the days are numbered for those who are purely intent on staying in and batting through. Have a look at the other night - we posted a big score, and could not have done more in the last 10 overs than we did. But allowing for the customary "accumulation of singles" throughout the middle overs, you need to get away to a quicker start than what we did. I know Marsh went out early, but if he'd stayed in and batted the way you say he should we'd have been even worse off. Remember Clarke also plays a steady role, and in the end 110 off 140 is probably too slow.

Sorry, but especially when pitches are favourable, you've got to get on with it from the outset or your end score just doesn't cut it.
 
Beeswax said:
I still don't really get why they open with Marsh. He appears to just eff around when you give him a whole innings to work with. If they must play him bring him in later where he has to hit as he has the ability to hit very cleanly. We are never going to see it when he opens though, I don't think he copes well with the responsibility of getting the innings going. I've never yet seen him play an innings as opener where he doesn't block or leave most deliveries he faces for the first few overs.
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I disagree with that.

I remember Marsh playing a blistering innings opening the batting in 2009. He got a hundred - was a top knock.

I also remember him coming in during the middle overs against England earlier this year and really teeing off.
 
Sober Symonds said:
Whilst it sounds reassuring to have someone playing an anchor role, I think the days are numbered for those who are purely intent on staying in and batting through. Have a look at the other night - we posted a big score, and could not have done more in the last 10 overs than we did. But allowing for the customary "accumulation of singles" throughout the middle overs, you need to get away to a quicker start than what we did. I know Marsh went out early, but if he'd stayed in and batted the way you say he should we'd have been even worse off. Remember Clarke also plays a steady role, and in the end 110 off 140 is probably too slow.

Sorry, but especially when pitches are favourable, you've got to get on with it from the outset or your end score just doesn't cut it.
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I agree with you, that last game was much too slow of the start. They are valuable powerplay overs and you need the players to capitalise on it.

What I'm saying is that this anchor player wouldn't bat at 70% for the whole innings. Marsh can really explode and hit big like he does in T20s, and can do so towards the end of the innings. What I was trying to point out is that you can have someone like Marsh in with someone like Watson, surely Watson can capitalise on those early overs while Marsh just runs the singles around? If Watson gets out doing that then Ponting is good enough to do the same. The idea is that Marsh needs to stick around as long as possible. Marsh has the ability to increase the rate at the end of the innings, but really he only needs to set up that 50-100 runs from him to get the new batsmen in at an easier time to bat, in those middle overs, also ready to jump from that platform for the last 10 overs.

If Marsh was actually in form and scoring the amounts he was scoring when he first came to the side then I'd be jumping up and down about him being in the team all the time. At the moment I'm 50/50 on him, it's not about their potential or what they could do, it's about what they are actually doing, and he's not scoring enough runs. I'll be keeping track of him in the domestic scene and really want him to do well, he's a talent.
 
On another bote, Xavier Doherty has been picked for the Sri Lanka ODI's starting next month. I've been saying on here for a while that he will play for Australia and that he is good enough so it's great to see him given an opportunity on the back of some great form in the Ryobi Cup.
 
Another failure from White - gets castled neck and crop.

It is also cringeworthy seeing Clarke try and bat at 3 in the place of the great man.

The sooner Ponting gets back into the side the better.
 
Very frustrating to see Doherty get dropped after taking 4 wickets on debut and frankly being the only bowler on the night who looked like he was world class.

It showed this evening as well - not being able to take more than 3 wickets in 41 overs is simply unacceptable.
 
Agreed, one of the most baffling decisions in recent times. Was our best bowler by a mile and gets dropped for Hauritz.
 
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