Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

I think in any cricket side you need to have specialist bowlers and that applys to tests, ODI's and T20's. We saw in South Africa what can happen if our opening bowlers don't get wickets early. Sure, in the initial overs in SA the bowlers kept it tight but not getting early wickets allowed SA to build good totals.

Hopes is a good honest bowler, but his not an incisive bowler who is going to run through a team. Symonds is in the same boat. Bracken at the minute isnt getting early wickets, his keeping it tight, but thats not good enough.

He appears to have lost that shape to his bowling, the swing into the right hander with the new white ball. Against good teams if you don't get early wickets then they will make you pay at the end of the innings.

Specialist bowlers in ODI are a viable commodity that can't be neglected.

definitely. i meant if you had all rounders that can do that, then batting and bowling (as long as bowling matches the other bowler) beats just bowling. i myself am a bowler and would hate to get dropped from my side because someone else can get wickets and bat, but if it adds to the team then why not? like ashley nofke, absolutely brilliant bowler (likened to mcgrath) plus two seasons ago (injured for most of the last) he was the second highest run scorer in the SS behind katich. i would put him in the team before hilfenhaus, or whoever is in that 'to be' spot, because not only can he bowl as well as them, but he can score a quick fire 30 or 50 when needed. a more relevant example is johnson. if he and steyn were competing for the same spot in the same team, i would pick mitch. they both get wickets at much the same rate and keep runs to a minimum, but comparing johnson's batting to steyn's he would get the spot by far. jaques kallis is also another example of this. this can only be employed if the all-rounder, even if they are an all-rounder like mitch, is good enough to do both effectively, otherwise it would not work at all. i dont think that being an all-rounder should be pushed though, good bowlers are a requirement for any team, just having near half the team as bowlers in an ODI is not the best tactic IMO.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

I can see where your coming from. But there haven't been too many all-rounders who have been able to fit that bill.

Secondly, the nature of the role means that its going to take its toll on the body, in the current climate this is even more relevant considering the amount of cricket.

Johnson to me is a specialist bowler, his batting is a bonus. When picking a team you need to take 20 wickets, as such the team should be selected around this requirement.

We saw with England in the 06/07 Ashes series when they were almost picking Giles for his abiliy with the bat rather then his bowling.

 

[el-capitano]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

Mwahahahaha- Ashley Giles

That'd be not out son- you couldn't get a wicket even if the batsman tried to hit his own stumps!

 

[A.B De Villiers]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

Mwahahahaha- Ashley Giles

That'd be not out son- you couldn't get a wicket even if the batsman tried to hit his own stumps!

The joke of English cricket for a long time. How he got a game ahead of swann or batty is beyond me. Hope he's a better coach than he is a spinner, or England will be in more bother!

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

You like Watson. So do the selectors, forgiving though they are. I'm not sure the rest of us have such faith however. He doesn't have a bad record as an opener, then again most players do well there when given a chance. It is the pick of the batting positions in one-day cricket, no question.

If you're wondering who to drop, Watto usually makes that decision easy anyway. Give him a couple of games and he will keel over. That is unless he doesn't bowl, in which case we should refrain from calling him an all-rounder.

Symonds is a far better option, and so is Hopes really. As for Marsh, has he done enough either? I'm not convinced. Watson's batting isn't so good he should be in ahead of those you have mentioned. (By the way, I am not swayed by the fact he just made a blob!)

i dont like watson, he"s to animated for me, but i do like the way the selectors are thinking making him open, its an atacking move, i would prefer to see mitch givin a chance as a ODI opener but that wont happen so watson would be my next choice.

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

I can see where your coming from. But there haven't been too many all-rounders who have been able to fit that bill.

Secondly, the nature of the role means that its going to take its toll on the body, in the current climate this is even more relevant considering the amount of cricket.

Johnson to me is a specialist bowler, his batting is a bonus. When picking a team you need to take 20 wickets, as such the team should be selected around this requirement.

We saw with England in the 06/07 Ashes series when they were almost picking Giles for his abiliy with the bat rather then his bowling.

i dont mean for tests at all. i just like the idea of having a strong batting lineup for the ODIs and more importantly T20s, especially if the top order isn't working as it should.

i consider johnson a specialist bowler as well, just with batting capabilities. compare him to mcgrath, he is a pure bowler, not that there is anything wrong with that. tailenders are naturally better batsmen these days, but if you can have a bowler that can bat, then why not? cricketers are a lot fitter now (they actually go to a gym, unlike tubby taylor of yesteryear!) so i think most should be able to handle some firepower at the end, or a match saving innings.

i would like to say the same for fielding. i feel siddle should be dropped from international cricket altogether because of his fielding. i could throw further than him when i was 10! i mean other fielders run towards him out at the boundary to take his throw that only makes half way. plus he can't catch. fielding is a crucial part of the game and has been since the initiation of OD cricket. at least 20 runs should be added to symonds score every innings due to his fielding, the same with ponting and clarke (when symonds is also in the side, otherwise he turns lazy and looks bored)

 

[Sober Symonds]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

whats wrong with having more all rounders? in limited overs you need as much batting as possible, and if those batsman can bowl as good as hopes and symonds have lately, then only a couple of full time bowlers are needed. plus we have batsman like johnson, bracken, hilfy etc who can all bat well. not that i'm saying to fill the team with all rounders and forget about proper batsman and bowlers though.

... remember lee will be back soon, hes now in the UAE on tour with the team. i think he is a certainty to get back in, and so he should be. while players have been injured it has been a great chance for youngsters to play and show their skills, now they will just have to wait until there is a vacancy in the team like everyone else ...

You seem to have mellowed from your original statements, thankfully Boris. You've acknowledged that having only a couple of full-time bowlers is risky, yet you want more all-rounders. Where are they going to fit? No point having blokes who can bowl a bit or bat a bit if it's going to go to waste.

Were you joking when you included Bracken & Hilf with Johnson as being able to "bat well"? Heaven help us! Don't know about Lee being a shoe-in either. He was ordinary before being mercifully given a spell last year. The replacements have now stepped up to the mark, and you're dismissing them because of factors other than their bowling. Agreed, Siddle can't throw, but his catching looks alright to me. That's harsh. If he does any worse in England than Lee has there in the past, then we can start to condemn him perhaps.

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

You seem to have mellowed from your original statements, thankfully Boris. You've acknowledged that having only a couple of full-time bowlers is risky, yet you want more all-rounders. Where are they going to fit? No point having blokes who can bowl a bit or bat a bit if it's going to go to waste.

Were you joking when you included Bracken & Hilf with Johnson as being able to "bat well"? Heaven help us! Don't know about Lee being a shoe-in either. He was ordinary before being mercifully given a spell last year. The replacements have now stepped up to the mark, and you're dismissing them because of factors other than their bowling. Agreed, Siddle can't throw, but his catching looks alright to me. That's harsh. If he does any worse in England than Lee has there in the past, then we can start to condemn him perhaps.

i have kept my opinion just the same, but thats all it is, an opinion. over my different statements i have refined my definition of my original statement with the help of lions then daylight. thats what these forums are for, are they not, to express then redefine opinions? i still believe that i bowler that can bat is an essential in all teams. a tail that can be pushed over will not help any team win or come back from a collapse. bracken, clark, johnson, lee, plus various others can all hang around and occupy an end while scoring a few runs. that was what i was trying to get at. australia doesnt have a pushover tail that does nothing but get laughed at, and thats the way it should be.

i was also joking with the siddle statement, i musnt have expressed it as such. he is a brilliant bowler, but not one i would like in the team.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

I can see exactly where you are coming from Boris. It would be great to have great bowlers who could all bat well (in the Warne/Johnson class).

However, it rarely works out when teams start picking bowlers on their batting ability. You pick the best bowlers and if they can bat it's a bonus.

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

3 specialist bowlers is about the norm in ODIs, you have to assume that the specialist batsmen will do there job, what happens if you play 2 specialist bowlers, bat first and only lose 4/6 wkts for your innings ? you would want 3 specialist bowlers then, bowling is every bit as important as batting.

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

i think it is just as important to have a good number 7/8 bowler/batsman in the line up for ODIs, as in any OD form of the game the top order often collapses and the side needs to be rescued by a bowler batting. they should concentrate a little more on their batting in practice sessions.

for tests selectors should stand tall and select bowlers for their bowling ability only. 200 overs is much different than 50 overs. in 10 overs a bowler may go for 6 an over compared to the other bowlers' 5 and thats only an extra 10 runs (although every run counts) but if a bowler in a test goes for 4 runs an over compared to the others' 3 over 30 overs, thats a lot more runs, especially if they are not taking wickets. in ODIs the threat of having a bad bowler is lessoned by that nature of the game, you can whip him out of the attack and a few part timers can make up the 5 or so remaining overs, whereas in a test if you take this bowler out of the attack you leave the part timers trying to make up 30 overs, and many many more runs can be made without the loss of a wicket. this is like with symonds and watson, some days they are exceptional with the ball, but other times they arent very good at all, so they are taken out of the attack soon after and another part timer put on. albie morkel proved that he was like this in the ODIs against south africa not long ago. just having one of the sort of bowlers like morkel in a side that can play that indefinite role is a good idea IMO.

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

that was the good thing about having mcgrath, warne, dizzy, in the team, it matter how good the part timers were.

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

that was the good thing about having mcgrath, warne, dizzy, in the team, it matter how good the part timers were.

very true. while it comes to mind i think dizzy was one of the most underrated cricketers, one who shouldnt have been dropped. one of my favourite players ever.

it seems as if we, me especially, are getting a very off-topic here. how did a picture of ashley giles get into a thread about australia and pakistan in the UAE?

 

[Ripping-LegBreak]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

Good win for pakistan yesterday, Despite losing the series, 3-2 is still a good result, especially against Australia who are still a top team without key players. This series in my opinion was a good series because both teams have come out with alot of positives. Pakistan got into the mood of playing international cricket while Australia consolidated for their series loss against South Africa. As a Pakistani Fan i am happy the way pakistan played their cricket as it was tough to come back after a long lay off and now i hope Pakistan can take this series as a forward route in preparing for the 20/20 world cup. Congrats Australia for winning the series, and Congrats Pakistan for putting up a performance which i thought went against my initial views.(I tipped the Aussies before the series to win 4-1.) Who know's, Pakistan could of won the series if they hadn't collapsed in the 3rd ODI... Ahh, Pakistan isin't called the most unpredictable team for nothing. Hope you guys enjoyed the series, I certainly did.

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

well done pakistan. in terms of a moral win, i think pakistan took that out 4-1.

australia were rotating their bowlers and experimenting with batting orders. i think that they thought pakistan would be a weak side that they would knock over easily, so they experimented with new things. as shown in the last game it wasnt the case when the two least experience fast bowlers were played and they were played easily. hauritz went a long way to cementing his spot in the side, i think he will be there for many years to come after this series. clark made his comeback in style with a very low economy rate and a few wickets to go with it. well done to him for showing his class in this form of the game straight back from injury. bracken mended a pretty bad south african tour with a decent amount of wickets and barely any runs, plus some well held catches. bollinger made headway into his international career with a 5 wicket haul, well done to him. some new fast bowlers were experimented with, and although largely unsuccessful, they played well and showed there skills on the international stage. lee also began his comeback with the team in the nets and touring with them, i think he is set to play in the T20 on thursday. symonds blasted his way back onto the stage aiding in all of his sides wins, with the team very pleased to have him back. the opening positions were experimented with success, with haddin supplying further evidence to his spot at the top, plus hopes and watson showing that they are more than capable with him, even with watson at three. clarke captained well once again, and added his 14th century in ODIs to his total. ferguson showed more of his worth in the lower order with some good scores. haddin showed off his keeping skills once again, with my count of only 3 byes over the series (i may be wrong) and some brilliant catches. the fielding was much improved over the series, although 3 fours were scored in over throws plus a couple of easy catches put down (watson once AGAIN. i thought he would have learnt how to catch by now. sorry for my outburst, but its true) but ground fielding was impeccable, in particular symonds. i think that this series was pretty successful with plenty of good points for australia to take away.

i would like to say the same for pakistan, but i cant even remember there names yet, let alone pick out whether they have improved from the past. great team though, good dynamics. spin was good all through the series, although the australians got on top in the end. fast bowling left a little to desire, but after so many months or years (havent followed the pakistanis at all) out of the game, i would expect less.

well played all, now onto the T20. this should be fun. pakistanis get to show off their talents and some new players in T20 before the world cup and lee, most possibly, comes back to prove his worth in international cricket. symonds also gets to let loose, his last T20 being a fair while ago. some new bowlers should be trialled and possibly some new batsman. i myself would like to see warner go crazy and tait breaking the sound barrier with lee once again. thats if those three are even playing that is.

 

[Ripping-LegBreak]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

damn, i missed the 20-20 match, i was too busy watching the westindies-england test match, DOH, Anyways good win for Pakistan, They now have beaten Australia twice in 20-20 cricket.

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

well my last post was way off. a report earlier suggested warner playing, and tait was injured. symonds went down early with the rest of the team as soon as the spinners came on. i did get one thing right with lee, he played well and his speed was getting up there. hopes had a pretty miserable game, with the exception of a great catch. watson batted well to begin with but has only ended up injuring himself once again. bracken and hopes also have injury concerns but arent as serious. australias second loss out of two games to pakistan.

T20 world cup up next. australia first verse the windies on 6th of june followed by sri lanka on the 8th. final is on the 21st. good luck to the aussies, and a special good luck to pakistan after i think they have excelled in their first tour in a long time.

until then i shall be watching hayden exceed all predictions in the IPL. i dont like the IPL but when haydos is playing i cant help myself. last scored 89 with 6 sixes and still holds the orange cap.

is there an IPL forum or thread somewhere on BC?

 

[el-capitano]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

http://www.bigcricket.com/forum/f302/

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan vs Australia in United Arab Emirates

thanks el cap. could have found it myself but this saves time and effort.