payments

southern sledge

Active Member
payments

Without stupid replies, how do posters believe the VTCA can cut out the rorting of the system.
Some clubs are flouting the system, should there be a salary cap, a points system or anything else they can do to stop it ?
 

southern sledge

Active Member
Re: payments

I am not saying any of this, it is for discussion. Our Admin. people want seperate threads.
This is one and we can have one on the heat policy, so the main VTCA thread can be about cricket not abuse.
 
Re: payments

Perhaps a points rule like they are bringing into some football leagues.

How you would work it out I'm not sure. I'll think about it and get back.
 

jika jika

Member
Re: payments

southern sledge;322861 said:
Without stupid replies, how do posters believe the VTCA can cut out the rorting of the system.
Some clubs are flouting the system, should there be a salary cap, a points system or anything else they can do to stop it ?
Only one way to make it work. Points system allocated to each player depending on where they have played previously, how long they have been at your club etc. EG: Player who has come from your junior program or have played 10 yrs at your club is worth 2 point, player recruited from equivalent local league ( WDCA, MMVCA, NWCA etc) is worth 4 points, player from higher VTCA grade is worth 5 points, subbies 1sts 7 points and district 1sts and 2nds/1st class players 10 points. Every year a player has at your club 1 point comes off his rating, eg Mick O'keefe would now only be a 6 point player for YC, but if he transfered to another club he is worth 10 points. Each 1st x1 is allowed about 40-50 points (need more thought and research to figure out fair amount). After a player has been in the VTCA for 6 consecutive years they become a maximum value of 5 points, no matter where they have come from or where they move to. Rewards clubs and players who stay loyal to comp/clubs. With a system like this you can spend whatever you want, but you just cant play them all at the one time. Plus will help clubs "reign in" spending because players can't prostitute themselves to a new club every year and threaten to leave for a few extra bucks because they will go back to the max points that they were origionally allocated ( for
1st 6 yrs anyway). This system rewards loyalty from both clubs and players ( interesting concept). Any comments
 

crazycricket

New Member
Re: payments

OnTheLookout;323056 said:
I would vote scrap the rule.... it is impossible to police !!!
i agree mate
having more payed players increases the standard of cricket in the vtca, which is what we all want, a high standard of cricket. unlike in some other comps around, some of their firsts players dont know which end of the bat your meant to hold. if that club has enough money to get such players, good, this is what seperates snr div clubs and nth B
 

jika jika

Member
Re: payments

crazycricket;323116 said:
i agree mate
having more payed players increases the standard of cricket in the vtca, which is what we all want, a high standard of cricket. unlike in some other comps around, some of their firsts players dont know which end of the bat your meant to hold. if that club has enough money to get such players, good, this is what seperates snr div clubs and nth B
The problem with no controls over payments or no points system means only 2-3 clubs will ever win senior premiership. EPL soccer is dominated by 3 or 4 rich clubs with (at the moment) bottomless pitts of money. Leeds United went broke 5 or so years ago trying to compete. Would hate to see local cricket go along the same lines. In local footy (WRFL & EDFL) everyone already knows who 3 of the top 4 sides will be.
 

southern sledge

Active Member
Re: payments

jika jika;323296 said:
The problem with no controls over payments or no points system means only 2-3 clubs will ever win senior premiership. EPL soccer is dominated by 3 or 4 rich clubs with (at the moment) bottomless pitts of money. Leeds United went broke 5 or so years ago trying to compete. Would hate to see local cricket go along the same lines. In local footy (WRFL & EDFL) everyone already knows who 3 of the top 4 sides will be.
Great posts Jika and great points.
In reply to crazy cricket, what is wrong with playing for nothing why do you need to be paid.
Clubs like Yarraville can stay on top by paying very good players every year, if their doing it legaly good luck to them, but its just like say a Manchester United who will be in the top 4 every year.
As you say in the Western region and Essendon footy leagues you know the top 3 or 4 every year, its the same in the Southern and Eastern footy leagues.
I think the points system has some merit and it doesnt mean you carn't recruit new players.
 
Re: payments

southern sledge;323329 said:
Great posts Jika and great points.
In reply to crazy cricket, what is wrong with playing for nothing why do you need to be paid.
Clubs like Yarraville can stay on top by paying very good players every year, if their doing it legaly good luck to them, but its just like say a Manchester United who will be in the top 4 every year.
As you say in the Western region and Essendon footy leagues you know the top 3 or 4 every year, its the same in the Southern and Eastern footy leagues.
I think the points system has some merit and it doesnt mean you carn't recruit new players.

Valid point re the points system (especially reducing points for someone staying for some time) and the predictability of who wins if its not controlled..... I guess promotion/relegation is the evener for clubs like mine (Foots Utd) - if we cant afford to compete in North A we will be relegated to North B and so on, but for a team in middle of senior division I can see how this can be a problem as they will be stuck in same div, with minimal prospoect of success wihtout spending big.

Where we differ from the premier league is that success isnt financially beneficial - we wont get more sponsors, prizemoney, merchandise sales, etc just by winning a premiership so you need to consider spending to win but even if its successful it doesnt pay for itself.....

Leeds crashed because they spent assuming champions league income, when they didnt qualify they couldnt pay the money they'd committed - fiscal stupidity !
 
Re: payments

Here is my format (Similar to Jika Jika's)

Points System:
  • 0 points - Home grown juniors.
  • 1 point - Players recruited from from other local competitions and country comps (WDCA, NWCA, DDCA, VSDCA Lower XI's, etc.)
  • 2 points - Other VTCA sides and Lower XI Premier Cricket sides.
  • 3 points - VSDCA 1st and 2nd XI players.
  • 4 points - Premier Cricket 1st and 2nd XI players (Including interstate teams).

Conditions applied are:
  • Cap is set around 20 to 25 points.
  • Each year a player stays with the club, a player loses a point off their status.
  • 1 International player allowed per 1st XI.
  • No rules on player payments.

Thoughts?
 
Re: payments

beached as;323335 said:
Here is my format (Similar to Jika Jika's)

Points System:
  • 0 points - Home grown juniors.
  • 1 point - Players recruited from from other local competitions and country comps (WDCA, NWCA, DDCA, VSDCA Lower XI's, etc.)
  • 2 points - Other VTCA sides and Lower XI Premier Cricket sides.
  • 3 points - VSDCA 1st and 2nd XI players.
  • 4 points - Premier Cricket 1st and 2nd XI players (Including interstate teams).

Conditions applied are:
  • Cap is set around 20 to 25 points.
  • Each year a player stays with the club, a player loses a point off their status.
  • 1 International player allowed per 1st XI.
  • No rules on player payments.

Thoughts?

This is a really good idea. Makes everything transparent
Subbies should be the same points as VTCA. The top 4 in Senior division would beat most / all of the Subbies teams.
 

jika jika

Member
Re: payments

OnTheLookout;323332 said:
Valid point re the points system (especially reducing points for someone staying for some time) and the predictability of who wins if its not controlled..... I guess promotion/relegation is the evener for clubs like mine (Foots Utd) - if we cant afford to compete in North A we will be relegated to North B and so on, but for a team in middle of senior division I can see how this can be a problem as they will be stuck in same div, with minimal prospoect of success wihtout spending big.

Where we differ from the premier league is that success isnt financially beneficial - we wont get more sponsors, prizemoney, merchandise sales, etc just by winning a premiership so you need to consider spending to win but even if its successful it doesnt pay for itself.....

Leeds crashed because they spent assuming champions league income, when they didnt qualify they couldnt pay the money they'd committed - fiscal stupidity !
Your right, success for local sporting clubs does not bring much extra revenue ( if any) but we can all list plenty of clubs in cricket and footy that have gone broke or had major problems caused by paying/promising money that they dont have and hope to generate. If a point system is instituted with rewards to clubs and players who stay loyal, the comp will even up. Being a successful club should be about good junior development and selective recruiting, not just offering more money to blokes to get them on board. Your club (or any other for that matter) shouldn't be penalised because your revenue streams are not as good as other clubs. Strong financial clubs will still be successful under a points system as they will still be able to recruit very good players, they just wont be able to add 2 or 3 top end players every year. Less financial clubs who develop juniors and research recruits with 3-4 year plans in mind will be able to compete and regularly defeat the richer clubs.
 
Re: payments

TheNorthHasRuinedTheVTCA;323343 said:
This is a really good idea. Makes everything transparent
Subbies should be the same points as VTCA. The top 4 in Senior division would beat most / all of the Subbies teams.
Agree. I couldn't make my mind up on how to position them so I decided to give them their own level.
 

crazycricket

New Member
Re: payments

TheNorthHasRuinedTheVTCA;323343 said:
This is a really good idea. Makes everything transparent
Subbies should be the same points as VTCA. The top 4 in Senior division would beat most / all of the Subbies teams.
all snr div and snr A sides would knock of any subbies side, but thats getting of the topic
 

mickeybee

Member
Re: payments

beached as;323335 said:
Here is my format (Similar to Jika Jika's)

Points System:
  • 0 points - Home grown juniors.
  • 1 point - Players recruited from from other local competitions and country comps (WDCA, NWCA, DDCA, VSDCA Lower XI's, etc.)
  • 2 points - Other VTCA sides and Lower XI Premier Cricket sides.
  • 3 points - VSDCA 1st and 2nd XI players.
  • 4 points - Premier Cricket 1st and 2nd XI players (Including interstate teams).

Conditions applied are:
  • Cap is set around 20 to 25 points.
  • Each year a player stays with the club, a player loses a point off their status.
  • 1 International player allowed per 1st XI.
  • No rules on player payments.

Thoughts?
I think that is a pretty good idea, however I am one of the people that love playing against paid players.. Otherwise, we might as well be playing on matting somewhere against players no where near the standard that we are currently enjoying..

You will agree that OEG would one of the teams with limited resources, so I thought I would use our team to see how the system works with us.

The limitations are that just because you played District 1's 10 years ago, you shouldn't be in the same category as a 23-28 year old gun.

*+W Pereara (3 points, 4 for District 1's, - 1 point for 2nd year with us)
P Shipp (0 points, school player)
H Lovell (0 points, school player)
P Monar (4 points, first year with us, ex district 1's)
T Linley (3 points, 4 for County 1's, -1 for 2nd year with us)
J Gorry (0 points, junior/been here for more than 4 years)
H McKeon (0 points, been with us since 1990's)
K Goonewardena (0 points, been with us more than 4 years)
S Metelmann (0 points, 4 points for District 1's, minus 4 points for his 6 years with us)
M McLachlan (0 points, junior/been here for more than 4 years)
M Baker (0 points, junior/been here for more than 4 years)

So we only have a total of 10 points.. Anyone else want to do it??
 

gib

Member
Re: payments

Hampton would have 1 point for J Ferguson and 3 for M Iles. I think this is a great idea but can't see it getting past the northern clubs.
 
Re: payments

jika jika;323346 said:
Your right, success for local sporting clubs does not bring much extra revenue ( if any) but we can all list plenty of clubs in cricket and footy that have gone broke or had major problems caused by paying/promising money that they dont have and hope to generate. If a point system is instituted with rewards to clubs and players who stay loyal, the comp will even up. Being a successful club should be about good junior development and selective recruiting, not just offering more money to blokes to get them on board. Your club (or any other for that matter) shouldn't be penalised because your revenue streams are not as good as other clubs. Strong financial clubs will still be successful under a points system as they will still be able to recruit very good players, they just wont be able to add 2 or 3 top end players every year. Less financial clubs who develop juniors and research recruits with 3-4 year plans in mind will be able to compete and regularly defeat the richer clubs.
Lookout Jika, you have come up with what seems to be a popular idea!! How many stubbies did it take? You get my vote for getting your ar_e onto the exec, along with Donk, and get some of your wisdom and ideas on the table, and hopefully through.

Anyhow, I may catch up with you for a beer Sunday week. How much is a ticket? Are there any left?
 

Gavone

New Member
Re: payments

beached as;323335 said:
Here is my format (Similar to Jika Jika's)

Points System:
  • 0 points - Home grown juniors.
  • 1 point - Players recruited from from other local competitions and country comps (WDCA, NWCA, DDCA, VSDCA Lower XI's, etc.)
  • 2 points - Other VTCA sides and Lower XI Premier Cricket sides.
  • 3 points - VSDCA 1st and 2nd XI players.
  • 4 points - Premier Cricket 1st and 2nd XI players (Including interstate teams).

Conditions applied are:
  • Cap is set around 20 to 25 points.
  • Each year a player stays with the club, a player loses a point off their status.
  • 1 International player allowed per 1st XI.
  • No rules on player payments.

Thoughts?
A very interesting topic, and one IMO that would greatly benefit a club like Hoppers Crossing given our massive junior base (16 junior teams this season). For our last selected team we would have the following points applied;

Gav McCallum: 0 points - junior
Darryl Carrington: 0 points - junior
Richard Skinner: 0 points - been with the club 10+ years
Ian Timms: 0 points - junior
Will Gardiner: 0 points - junior
Liam Andrew: 0 points - junior
Shane McEachran: 1 point - recruited from Yarraville Club last year
Trent Said: 0 points - junior
Mark Craig: 0 points - junior
Shaun Borlase: 1 point - recruited from Sunshine United last year
Evan Boorman: 0 points - been at the club 10+ years

Grand total = 2 points!!!
 
Re: payments

Footscray United's most recent team would have 4 points for Oshan Lasantha, our overseas player and no other points... Ash Manning played district ones but has been at club 10+ years, Preece recruited from other club but been at club 10+ years.

SD Ainge Burgess McKay Lasslett Wijesekara Hoang SA Ainge all former juniors.

Surplice promoted from lower grades, played at other club previously but been with us for years.

Perhaps with the examples given, 20 points would be too many - someone who knows the players better than me could do a test with YCCC ?
 
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