South Division 2012/13

rat'n'bat

Active Member
They certainly won't if the only place it is discussed is here, rather than via delegates to the association.
Incidentally, don't all changes have to be in by today? I know I've been thinking about potential rule changes all week after finishing my GF!!!
The changes to the structure and setting up an 8 team comp- I would think there would be no need for a club to put it forward. Just acknowledgement that something needs to be done.
 

Rockshow

New Member
If I had any say on the setup, I'd say leave it as it is, don't become like the ECA where you have first XI sides playing against another clubs 2nd or 3rd XI side. That's not how cricket is meant to be played. Just saying
 

rat'n'bat

Active Member
If I had any say on the setup, I'd say leave it as it is, don't become like the ECA where you have first XI sides playing against another clubs 2nd or 3rd XI side. That's not how cricket is meant to be played. Just saying
Why not? If a 2nd or 3rd XI can be competitive, why shouldn't they be given the opportunity. Cricket to me should be about a reasonably equal contest between bat and ball. In a perfect world we would have 20 teams with four sides all playing against each other, but we don't have that - instead we have sides playing against club mates or being rolled for 20, just so they can play in a 2s only comp
 

DalesHack

Member
Why not? If a 2nd or 3rd XI can be competitive, why shouldn't they be given the opportunity. Cricket to me should be about a reasonably equal contest between bat and ball. In a perfect world we would have 20 teams with four sides all playing against each other, but we don't have that - instead we have sides playing against club mates or being rolled for 20, just so they can play in a 2s only comp
Don't like the idea of this one Rat. Teams chasing promotion for their Firsts won't do much justice to 40 year olds and 16 year olds playing their level in the twos. From blokes playing in the DDCA, a few of them don't see the benefit of it. Firsts play firsts and the reverse draw caters for the next tier. I understand the argument given the relative position of South clubs, I don't think this is a good option though.
 

rat'n'bat

Active Member
Don't like the idea of this one Rat. Teams chasing promotion for their Firsts won't do much justice to 40 year olds and 16 year olds playing their level in the twos. From blokes playing in the DDCA, a few of them don't see the benefit of it. Firsts play firsts and the reverse draw caters for the next tier. I understand the argument given the relative position of South clubs, I don't think this is a good option though.
I understand what you are saying DH

But I played in the DDCA a few years back, and our 2nds got up massively for the games against 1st XIs. The best clubs pushed to have their 2nd and 3rd XIs play as high as possible – they would find their grade.

Look at Aspendale this year – their 1st XI were 1 run away from being promoted, but their twos were – I’ll be diplomatic - comparatively not quite as good. But as I said, one run different in the semi and their twos get promoted – won’t be great for the development of some of their younger players to play that level, after they have struggled at a lower level.

Another example - the bottom team in South A has nowhere to go – they might have promising signs, they may have good juniors coming through, they may be restabilising the ship – but it could be a 4 or 5 year plan. Now is it fair for that team to keep be forced to play in a grade when they really don’t have the cattle, just because that is where 1st XIs play? 4 or 5 years of getting smashed every week, they lose players and then that club is back to square one, the comp loses more teams and we keep having the same old discussions
 

TheScorer

Member
Another example - the bottom team in South A has nowhere to go – they might have promising signs, they may have good juniors coming through, they may be restabilising the ship – but it could be a 4 or 5 year plan. Now is it fair for that team to keep be forced to play in a grade when they really don’t have the cattle, just because that is where 1st XIs play? 4 or 5 years of getting smashed every week, they lose players and then that club is back to square one, the comp loses more teams and we keep having the same old discussions
This situation applies no matter how many grades you have. Somebody has to finish bottom of the lowest grade, with nowhere further to go to sink to their level.
 

rat'n'bat

Active Member
This situation applies no matter how many grades you have. Somebody has to finish bottom of the lowest grade, with nowhere further to go to sink to their level.
Agree – except Highett (who finished last in South A this year) aren’t in the lowest grade. Even allowing for the fact that some of the 2nds teams will be better than them, there are three 2nds comps below them – why can’t they then swap places with a team below them, who happen to be McKinnon’s 2nds, or Parkdale’s 3rds or (insert any nominal new club)’s 1st XI
 

DStrek15

Active Member
Some good points. Having played both versions, the one day games first was much better, mainly because the two day games were all rain affected and turned into one day games anyway. And then as you said playing one day games leading into finals. Not too fussed if they are split or not.
By my quick count, there are 58 two day teams from the south, plus 13 one day sides. How about 6 eight team comps - with the current 1st and 2nd XIs and maybe a couple more - and one 10 team comp. and then promotion and relegation throughout. Thoughts??
Yep good work, I'll sign onto that what should we call our new league? Bayside Cricket? ;)
 

rat'n'bat

Active Member
Vote #1 - Bayside Incorporated Turf Cricket Heirachy (B.I.T.C.H)
Love it!! The options for merchandise are endless. Our rep sides wouldnt be on fire, they would be on heat:D
Although I think legally it may just be easier to restructure the existing VTCA South side!!
 

zyxwvu

Member
Team of the year:
Lamb, Jenkins, Daykin, Johnson, Tillakaratne, Khawaja, Bacon, Campbell w/k, Lancaster, Seeary, Gara

Showing my bias, but Campbell as keeper? Kept in only 3 games for 4 catches, 1 stumping, 354 runs.
Paul Lasky, 25 catches, 2 stumpings, 299 runs

Otherwise, only other change I'd make is Jenkins out, Gilchrist in. Averaging 43 as opposed to 31. Me thinks smashing it in the ashes game might have helped his cause (and captains usually look at aggregate runs, not averages).

Thoughts?
 

Tobogganist

New Member
Team of the year:
Lamb, Jenkins, Daykin, Johnson, Tillakaratne, Khawaja, Bacon, Campbell w/k, Lancaster, Seeary, Gara

Showing my bias, but Campbell as keeper? Kept in only 3 games for 4 catches, 1 stumping, 354 runs.
Paul Lasky, 25 catches, 2 stumpings, 299 runs

Otherwise, only other change I'd make is Jenkins out, Gilchrist in. Averaging 43 as opposed to 31. Me thinks smashing it in the ashes game might have helped his cause (and captains usually look at aggregate runs, not averages).

Thoughts?
Gotta agree with you on Jenkins and Campbell. Jenkins a bit lucky to be there, can obviously play a bit but his aggregate was helped by a good knock against a flat Chelsea. Campbell gave his team some hope during the season but Keeper? Lasky very stiff, 50 less runs but like you say heaps more dismissals including a ripping stumping in GF.
Other than that not a bad team, 7 from the two GF teams clearly showing why they both got there.
 

TheScorer

Member
Agree too. I don't know how the captains make their choices, but when the VTCA introduced the "Team of the Year" each captain was meant to provide their 11 players, listed in batting order. If that's the way it is still done then it might be that Paul Lasky's batting position, as an opening batsman, counted against him.

Dunno. It does seem odd to pick somebody who only kept in four matches as the "keeper of the year", but there must be an explanation. Perhaps they took a leaf out of the Aussie selectors book, who managed to pick a bloke who isn't proven as (or possibly just "isn't") a batsman or bowler, and then opening the batting and bowling with him.
 

rat'n'bat

Active Member
Interesting tweet from OMCC yesterday about their structure this year. Looking to have 1s in Senior and 2nd XI in South A.
 

DStrek15

Active Member
Interesting tweet from OMCC yesterday about their structure this year. Looking to have 1s in Senior and 2nd XI in South A.
Pretty sure we have been offered similar at mckinnon (1sts in South div, 2nds south A, 3rds in South Seconds and 4ths South C1)
 

TheScorer

Member
Pretty sure we have been offered similar at mckinnon (1sts in South div, 2nds south A, 3rds in South Seconds and 4ths South C1)
Both this and the OMCC tweet mentioned previously are moves towards the suggestion, mooted here some time ago, of dropping the 2nd XI grades and simply having every team of every club moving up and down through the grades via promotion and relegation. You may conceivably have a 1st XI playing a 4th XI, but if they are both there based on performances over the years, they should be evenly matched.

I wonder whether there will be any discussion of an alternative structure at the VTCA AGM next week?
 

rat'n'bat

Active Member
Both this and the OMCC tweet mentioned previously are moves towards the suggestion, mooted here some time ago, of dropping the 2nd XI grades and simply having every team of every club moving up and down through the grades via promotion and relegation. You may conceivably have a 1st XI playing a 4th XI, but if they are both there based on performances over the years, they should be evenly matched

I wonder whether there will be any discussion of an alternative structure at the VTCA AGM next week?
Yep, I'm sure many (including myself) suggested this a while back. Will be interested to see if it becomes an official decision
AGM has been pushed back two weeks
 

Tobogganist

New Member
anybody wondering like me why the VTCA AGM has been put back another week to Aug 5th? Seems to be very late for a cricket association AGM particularly with the season start only 13 weeks away!
unforseen circumstances is the excuse for the delay but to me something strange is up and the VT have an obligation to give us more than that.
The lack of communication on all matters from this crew is appalling and I can have little confidence in them.
Still nothing official the Sth Caufield matter, why there was no Exec at GF presentations, no agenda for the AGM issued etc etc.
We go to an AGM with next to no information on what is being presented for discussion. Will there be rule changes, structure changes, new Exec structure/personnel.
your on committee Sledge, can you give us any indication of whats happening apart from your usual four words of derision? I know that Russell Pollock has had a difficult year and that a few exec will be standing aside but surely someones go to stand up and keep in touch with Clubs!
 
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