Subbies Thread

It was too much for kids that age in that heat, Its a competition that's not really needed

regardless of peoples views on the heat - I actually think Hatch is a brilliant competition which gives talenetd 14 year olds the chance to play 6 games on great grounds.
By playing 6 games coaches get a chance to juggle the batting and bowling orders around and each kid will normally get a good chance to showcase their talent.
So many of the pathway series only have the 3 round robin games and them move into a knock out final - it is very cut throat and there isn't as much time to give every one a good go.
Hatch is a great introduction to turf cricket and hopefully sparks kids interest in playing higher level cricket.
 
regardless of peoples views on the heat - I actually think Hatch is a brilliant competition which gives talenetd 14 year olds the chance to play 6 games on great grounds.
By playing 6 games coaches get a chance to juggle the batting and bowling orders around and each kid will normally get a good chance to showcase their talent.
So many of the pathway series only have the 3 round robin games and them move into a knock out final - it is very cut throat and there isn't as much time to give every one a good go.
Hatch is a great introduction to turf cricket and hopefully sparks kids interest in playing higher level cricket.
And this week it would have turned them off, a 3 game series is enough at that age.
 
we will have to agree to disagree

Having prepared many a pitch for the Hatch I could not fail to notice on the morning of each match how much the kids were looking forward to playing, so it would have been a tough call to have called off the comp despite the extreme conditions. In respect to juniors playing in extreme conditions, my main concern is for those playing in the 3rds and 4ths who have already played for their under-age team that Sat morning, and was one of the reasons behind my suggesting in an earlier post that in the event of last Sat being a scorcher consideration be given to the lower grades being cancelled. Any comments? Also, at the other end of the scale, a number of the club umpires in those grades are no spring chickens and a number of players, shall we say, a little past their prime. By the way, hats off to the curators who toiled in extreme conditions to meet the additional work-load the Hatch entails.
 
regardless of peoples views on the heat - I actually think Hatch is a brilliant competition which gives talenetd 14 year olds the chance to play 6 games on great grounds.
By playing 6 games coaches get a chance to juggle the batting and bowling orders around and each kid will normally get a good chance to showcase their talent.
So many of the pathway series only have the 3 round robin games and them move into a knock out final - it is very cut throat and there isn't as much time to give every one a good go.
Hatch is a great introduction to turf cricket and hopefully sparks kids interest in playing higher level cricket.


Having played Hatch for 2 years and now coached hatch for two years I believe it is a fantastic competition and I think if you asked all the kids who participated in the carnival this year that'd think the same.

The kids were rapt every time they got to run out on our main oval and really enjoyed playing at Yarraville too and the standard of competition is far greater than anything most of them have played before.

It is a very unique competition and one that should continue into the future.

I know my boys were livid when Thursday's game got called off, I am not saying it shouldn't have been because I agree 3 days in a row would've been too much but the kids were just that desperate to play and it shows how much they enjoyed the competition.
 
It will be interesting when the CV regional turf cricket comes in whether there will be an under age turf comp. As westland stated, you must feel for the curators who don't get a break from the weather.
A better solution might be to play a Hatch type comp spaced out over a few Sunday mornings.
 
Having played Hatch for 2 years and now coached hatch for two years I believe it is a fantastic competition and I think if you asked all the kids who participated in the carnival this year that'd think the same.

The kids were rapt every time they got to run out on our main oval and really enjoyed playing at Yarraville too and the standard of competition is far greater than anything most of them have played before.

It is a very unique competition and one that should continue into the future.

I know my boys were livid when Thursday's game got called off, I am not saying it shouldn't have been because I agree 3 days in a row would've been too much but the kids were just that desperate to play and it shows how much they enjoyed the competition.

I don’t know how unique it is!! There are CV pathway sides (which is a very, very good standard), and the various association sides. Hatch to me, seems to exist for those kids who aren’t good enough to play in the pathway or VMCU carnivals (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing) – or those kids who get convinced that Hatch is a better standard than pathway or VMCU. It is played on turf which is a big tick, and the grounds are good, but most of the VMCU U16 comp is played on terrific turf grounds. The shear fact that there are about 30 sides seriously dilutes the standard. It’s good to get the kids a game (which is good for the game), good for the Subbie clubs to stock up with some kids from the area for their lower grades (which is not good for the game) – but I wouldn’t exactly call it a worthwhile part of the pathway to developing better cricketers
 
I don’t know how unique it is!! There are CV pathway sides (which is a very, very good standard), and the various association sides. Hatch to me, seems to exist for those kids who aren’t good enough to play in the pathway or VMCU carnivals (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing) – or those kids who get convinced that Hatch is a better standard than pathway or VMCU. It is played on turf which is a big tick, and the grounds are good, but most of the VMCU U16 comp is played on terrific turf grounds. The shear fact that there are about 30 sides seriously dilutes the standard. It’s good to get the kids a game (which is good for the game), good for the Subbie clubs to stock up with some kids from the area for their lower grades (which is not good for the game) – but I wouldn’t exactly call it a worthwhile part of the pathway to developing better cricketers

I think all the rep cricket compliments each other. Many of the boys playing in the VMCU carnival at under 16 level, would have played in the Hatch competition the previous year.

Players improve enormously between the ages os 14 to 17 and a big part of it is the rep carnivals that they play in. It basically means they are playing 2 seasons in 1 and if you want to prouce top quality players, the more quality cricket they are playing the better.
 
Its still too much, they are driven by the fact that if they don't play these rep gamers they will go no where


Funny how the anti Hatch/Rep cricket rhetoric comes from VTCA folk. Is that what you mean by going nowhere? Staying with their VTCA club? In the Southern suburbs, there are quite a few clubs playing their VMCU affiliated U15 and U17's on turf on Friday nights and Sunday mornings, very good for developing younger players. As for Rat'n'bat, I have never heard anyone say Hatch, an u15 Comp, is better than CV Pathway, which is U14/16/18, because it is not. I also can't imagine any U15 choosing to play Beitzel over Hatch, poorly advised if they did, probably by a club who is trying to hold them back.
 
It will be interesting when the CV regional turf cricket comes in whether there will be an under age turf comp. As westland stated, you must feel for the curators who don't get a break from the weather.
A better solution might be to play a Hatch type comp spaced out over a few Sunday mornings.

I notice on the subbies homepage Peter Flack thanked everyone involved in the Hatch Shield EXCEPT THE CURATORS who toiled in extreme weather to prepare the pitches. Typical of the attitude of cricket administrators towards us and I speak from many years of experience.
Turning to the CV regional turf cricket matter, have there been further developments of which you are aware since Jack Sheehan told the southeast issue of the Leader last June that the subbies would fight ''tooth and nail'' any moves to revamp it in favour of a zoned-based framework (DDCA president similarly opposed)? What force/authority could CV bring to bear in the face of strong opposition to their proposal? The annual dividend will soon no longer be an issue so what carrot or stick does CV have?
 
I don’t know how unique it is!! There are CV pathway sides (which is a very, very good standard), and the various association sides. Hatch to me, seems to exist for those kids who aren’t good enough to play in the pathway or VMCU carnivals (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing) – or those kids who get convinced that Hatch is a better standard than pathway or VMCU. It is played on turf which is a big tick, and the grounds are good, but most of the VMCU U16 comp is played on terrific turf grounds. The shear fact that there are about 30 sides seriously dilutes the standard. It’s good to get the kids a game (which is good for the game), good for the Subbie clubs to stock up with some kids from the area for their lower grades (which is not good for the game) – but I wouldn’t exactly call it a worthwhile part of the pathway to developing better cricketers


As has been previously stated the CV Pathway is of course a far greater standard than Hatch but Hatch is equally as far ahead of the VMCU carnivals. The Hatch is a better comp than the Jim Beitzel comp and it is a year behind in terms of age. Many kids I coached last year in Hatch went on to play Bietzel this year as I have previously done and shared the same opinion. In the west area 8/13 kids representing the Western Spirit in the u/16 CV pathway tournament played Hatch cricket last year and I would imagine it would be a similar stat across the board.

The pathway works well I believe and they fit in well with each other and provide kids with good exposure to a higher quality standard of cricket which can only help their development.
 
No disrespect intended but don't you get paid to do so? All others are volunteers...
On the assumption your post was in respect to mine pointing out the absence of thanks to the curators who toiled in extreme conditions, you miss the point completely. It is not a case of it being acceptable for the curators to be ignored simply because they may be paid; it is a case of ensuring good personal relations with all who are engaged in activities vitally important to the well-being of our game. This is an issue that cricket administrators should at all times be conscious of.
I have many times posted that I am a club-appointed curator which, of course, means it is a summer-season only activity the income I earn only being sufficient to keep 'the fox from the door' for a month or two in any 12 month period. In my experience, there are very few community cricket clubs that can afford to pay commercial rates for curating services.

Always bear in mind that club-appointed curators ELECT to do the job. We are not in a master/servant relationship with the club nor, indeed, anyone else in respect to curating, and, that we all must have alternative sources of income for our year-round financial needs. Expressing the umpires' fees as an hourly rate reveals that it is about three times the hourly rate earned by me; a good example of why many club-appointed curators ELECT to curate rather than umpire.
 
Well said Westland and that's coming from someone whos done Premier decks.
If the Hatch was run like Dowling is now, many wouldn't have a problem

Great to learn there is at least one other member of this forum who has empathy for we curators. In respect to the Dowling Shield my knowledge is very limited--I know it is now within the CV Pathway system, but that's about all I know. So, I should be grateful if you would elaborate a little on your post, even if its only for my benefit.
 
I notice on the subbies homepage Peter Flack thanked everyone involved in the Hatch Shield EXCEPT THE CURATORS who toiled in extreme weather to prepare the pitches. Typical of the attitude of cricket administrators towards us and I speak from many years of experience.
Turning to the CV regional turf cricket matter, have there been further developments of which you are aware since Jack Sheehan told the southeast issue of the Leader last June that the subbies would fight ''tooth and nail'' any moves to revamp it in favour of a zoned-based framework (DDCA president similarly opposed)? What force/authority could CV bring to bear in the face of strong opposition to their proposal? The annual dividend will soon no longer be an issue so what carrot or stick does CV have?

no doubt you are correct Westland. Curators deserve more recognition for their efforts amd did a brilliant job during the heat to ensure that pitches were ready to play on.
Players and administrators all need to be better at recognising the efforts that are made bu curators and council staff to ensure that we get a game - they often go above and beyond
 
A ''notional'' or ''optional'' curator's fee, take your pick, for the outcome is the same. Weapo, I know you are working your guts out doing all manner of things additional to your resposibilities at Sunshine, but, after talking to your club's curator at Dempster this week this is yet another issue you may have to add to your list-- if it's not already on it. He told me he should have been paid half his fee by now but has not been paid a single cent for the season so far and believes, in effect, the paid players have been looked after at his expense. I am absolutely positive he did not expect me to take this matter up on this forum, nor did I tell I him I would, but you will have gleaned from many of my posts that I am on a mission to see that clubs appropriately look after and pay due respect to their curators. Although this post singles out Sunshine, if this issue had been in respect to any other club my post would have been much the same. If my mission puts some people's noses out of joint and embarrasses a club or two in the process--so be it.
 
A ''notional'' or ''optional'' curator's fee, take your pick, for the outcome is the same. Weapo, I know you are working your guts out doing all manner of things additional to your resposibilities at Sunshine, but, after talking to your club's curator at Dempster this week this is yet another issue you may have to add to your list-- if it's not already on it. He told me he should have been paid half his fee by now but has not been paid a single cent for the season so far and believes, in effect, the paid players have been looked after at his expense. I am absolutely positive he did not expect me to take this matter up on this forum, nor did I tell I him I would, but you will have gleaned from many of my posts that I am on a mission to see that clubs appropriately look after and pay due respect to their curators. Although this post singles out Sunshine, if this issue had been in respect to any other club my post would have been much the same. If my mission puts some people's noses out of joint and embarrasses a club or two in the process--so be it.
It happened to me at a Premier club 10 years ago and never got paid, but their new Pro's did
 
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