This meeting should have been held by video as Z was ambushed and beaten over the head by not only Trump but his senior men and then humiliated by being thrown out of the White House.
The Serious Discussion Thread.
- Thread starter Richie
- Start date
Why is there no big stink by western allies over Russia continuing to bring Nth Korean commies to its battle grounds to kill Ukranians. Yet the hypocritical Kremlin bellyaches over plans for France, UK and Germany? (Thomas) to put boots on Ukn soil, tho only for peace keeping purposes. No doubt the only ones pleased Kim's troops are in Kursk are greatly relieved Russian mothers who dont have the gut wrenching task of having to bury their sons.
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Grier
Well-Known Member
Trump is no longer the leader of the free world siding with Despots like Putin and wanting to extort billions from Ukraine. Stuff paying back even a penny as it was a gift from Biden. That'll send Trump into another shouting rage!
I'd like to see the US expelled from NATO, and Ukraine allowed to join.
Global leaders have again given support to Ukraine for Russia's illegal invasion.
I'd like to see the US expelled from NATO, and Ukraine allowed to join.
Global leaders have again given support to Ukraine for Russia's illegal invasion.
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Grier
Well-Known Member
An American friend sent me this from Reddit:
##################### Artcle:
Trump and conservative mainstream US media are leaving one BIG thing out: All those 'resources' are in the Donbas region. AKA: The area Russia now occupies, the area Trump is pressuring Zelenskyy to surrender to Russia as part of the 'deal'.
Then lying the rest of what Russia demands. Which is: putting their own politicians in Ukraines government, Surrendering the Donbas to them, and giving Ukraine no security guarantees.
Anyone with any inkling of critical thinking can put those facts together and see what it is Vance and Trump were doing. It wasn't a 'resource deal' it was a complete surrender to Russia under the guise of being a resource deal. Ukraine doesn't presently occupy the donbas,(where the bulk of the resources are) so there was no deal to be made with anyone other than russia.
Which is why Trump and Russia did 'peace talks' without Ukraine.
Zelenskyy without a DOUBT knows this- but he was still trying to somehow win Trump back over to Ukraines side. Theres a reason why Zelenskyy keeps saying 'Security Guarantees' or nothing. He's saying that he is willing to surrender the donbas region in exchange for NATO's military strength to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine in the future. But Putin STARTED this war to take over and Russify the Ukrainian people. So OBVIOUSLY Putin isn't going to agree to a 'peace deal' that prevents him from taking over ukraine. Because he's evil and all he cares about is restoring the USSR with himself as its king. So Trump will always say no, because Trump isn't a mediator. He's just Putin's messenger.
So this entire meeting, this 'signing of the deal' was all a load of BS. The meeting was a public pressuring of trying to get Ukraine to surrender, and to make Zelenskyy look like the bad one if the 'deal' fell through. It sounds like a crazy conspiracy- but thats exactly what they did.
Trump, Vance and Musk are evil. And APPARENTLY Russian foreign agents. Judging by how much Trump kisses putins ass.
###################### end of article
I do think an apology is warranted over the Oval Office fiasco, with no corners to hide in, cameras everywhere with big marker pens inked and tested,
but it won't happen as I think Trump is not man enough to ever say sorry. Remember his heels" spurs excuses...
It was great to hear so many European Leaders decry the very rude ambush and reaffirm their support for Ukraine, like proudly my Australia too. Agreed it's in Europe's interest to arm up. Don't count on the turncoat Yanks. Minor European nations like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are right to worry about the Russians.
Trump and Jody are like vultures pecking at a bleeding soldier, just trying to get home, Trump & Co trying to see what they can get for nothing, certainly no security offers, which was a totally fair question imho. Most galling is the huge smile on Putin's face...
"Trashing Trump" is seen more and more as a buffoon globally with more dubious boasts than a drunken shearer.
Who voted him in? Serves them right.
##################### Artcle:
Trump and conservative mainstream US media are leaving one BIG thing out: All those 'resources' are in the Donbas region. AKA: The area Russia now occupies, the area Trump is pressuring Zelenskyy to surrender to Russia as part of the 'deal'.
Then lying the rest of what Russia demands. Which is: putting their own politicians in Ukraines government, Surrendering the Donbas to them, and giving Ukraine no security guarantees.
Anyone with any inkling of critical thinking can put those facts together and see what it is Vance and Trump were doing. It wasn't a 'resource deal' it was a complete surrender to Russia under the guise of being a resource deal. Ukraine doesn't presently occupy the donbas,(where the bulk of the resources are) so there was no deal to be made with anyone other than russia.
Which is why Trump and Russia did 'peace talks' without Ukraine.
Zelenskyy without a DOUBT knows this- but he was still trying to somehow win Trump back over to Ukraines side. Theres a reason why Zelenskyy keeps saying 'Security Guarantees' or nothing. He's saying that he is willing to surrender the donbas region in exchange for NATO's military strength to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine in the future. But Putin STARTED this war to take over and Russify the Ukrainian people. So OBVIOUSLY Putin isn't going to agree to a 'peace deal' that prevents him from taking over ukraine. Because he's evil and all he cares about is restoring the USSR with himself as its king. So Trump will always say no, because Trump isn't a mediator. He's just Putin's messenger.
So this entire meeting, this 'signing of the deal' was all a load of BS. The meeting was a public pressuring of trying to get Ukraine to surrender, and to make Zelenskyy look like the bad one if the 'deal' fell through. It sounds like a crazy conspiracy- but thats exactly what they did.
Trump, Vance and Musk are evil. And APPARENTLY Russian foreign agents. Judging by how much Trump kisses putins ass.
###################### end of article
I do think an apology is warranted over the Oval Office fiasco, with no corners to hide in, cameras everywhere with big marker pens inked and tested,
but it won't happen as I think Trump is not man enough to ever say sorry. Remember his heels" spurs excuses...
It was great to hear so many European Leaders decry the very rude ambush and reaffirm their support for Ukraine, like proudly my Australia too. Agreed it's in Europe's interest to arm up. Don't count on the turncoat Yanks. Minor European nations like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are right to worry about the Russians.
Trump and Jody are like vultures pecking at a bleeding soldier, just trying to get home, Trump & Co trying to see what they can get for nothing, certainly no security offers, which was a totally fair question imho. Most galling is the huge smile on Putin's face...
"Trashing Trump" is seen more and more as a buffoon globally with more dubious boasts than a drunken shearer.
Who voted him in? Serves them right.
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That wont solve the problem imo as even if there is a treaty or even a total end to the war the Russkies will invade Ukn again once it joins NATO. Ukn has been invited to join the EU, so being under their umbrella should provide them with the security they crave. I say if able to, the Euro members need to pull out of NATO and form a Euro centric defense pact instead. Trump and his cronies can go to hell. I also believe that Trump will regret that meeting as he wont now get his grubby hands on those much desired rare earth minerals, with the EU now being the likely major beneficiary and Ukn receiving much needed revenue from trusted friends.
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Yes he is a despicable, narcissistic individual.
I read that only 20% was there. The majority probably in the regions that Putin wants most, two of which are Kherson and Zaporizhia. There are two more but unsure of names. This is looking like a despicable conspiracy cooked up by Trump and Putin as was alluded to in that article. Both would sell their own grandmother without blinking an eye.
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Grier
Well-Known Member
Europe contributed three quarters of the aid to Ukraine. Heard that on our ABC.
The US under Biden contributed a gift of less than $200 billion yet Trump says the figure is $350 billion. We know he lies and favours Putin's Russia while slagging off European Allies.
It was great to see almost all of Europe and my Australia's bipartisan parties giving solid support to Ukraine, with no US presence.
UK PM Keir Starmer gave Zelensky a hug and warm welcome knowing well Trump's extortion racket trying to steal resources from Ukraine for nothing in return. A Vulture. Duh! Art of the Steal, like robbing someone when they're down and bruised.
Most European nations like Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, ... know well Putin's Expanionist Empire dreams ...
Trump wants an apology from Zelenskyy, for what? It should be the other way around but Trmup is not man enough to ever say sorry for anything. Shouting and pointing fingers with Vance giving Zelenskyy a metaphorical Glassgow kiss. And all the shouting from Trump and Vance. I really felt for Zelensky in that moment, some calling it an ambush. Loud arrogant standover men, even that reporter trying to embarress Zelenskyy about not wearing g a suit! I liked Zelenskyy's polite deflection of that slight. The Yanks there were the rude ones and the World agrees.
Was that your plan Mr Trump being such a Jeaniash?
I'm glad it all went to air and Trymp's big laundry pen dreid out.
Crayons 🖍 don't.
Don't apologise Presindent Zelenskyy, you have nothing to apologise for.
Trump greatly imbarrassed himself before the eyes of the world. Good!
It was nice to see so many Americans protest at the fiasco. Even Republcans were embarrassed. Too right they should be!
More protests too about Musk's fiscal razor gang now..
Trump, you're fired as the Leader of the Free World!
as the chatter goes ..,
Europe, Canada, Australia, ... and others can do fine helping Ukraine without the US and shaming them., easily filling the shortfall due to the US Potus being so enamoured with a Despotic brutal Putin. How trite.
Zelenskyy's right in saying Europe defends itself by defending Ukraine.
I agree, sad to say. Stuff Trump, keep him out of any Peace Talks. He's only in it for his own advantage and his strange bromance with Putin.
American folk are now seeing and regretting the Wrecker they elected, for what he is doing. So many social mores trashed.
Wait till the US prices go up when their tariffs kick in, and after they've been sacked by Musk.
That'll be Obama's fault.
I must watch that movie "Civil War".
The US under Biden contributed a gift of less than $200 billion yet Trump says the figure is $350 billion. We know he lies and favours Putin's Russia while slagging off European Allies.
It was great to see almost all of Europe and my Australia's bipartisan parties giving solid support to Ukraine, with no US presence.
UK PM Keir Starmer gave Zelensky a hug and warm welcome knowing well Trump's extortion racket trying to steal resources from Ukraine for nothing in return. A Vulture. Duh! Art of the Steal, like robbing someone when they're down and bruised.
Most European nations like Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, ... know well Putin's Expanionist Empire dreams ...
Trump wants an apology from Zelenskyy, for what? It should be the other way around but Trmup is not man enough to ever say sorry for anything. Shouting and pointing fingers with Vance giving Zelenskyy a metaphorical Glassgow kiss. And all the shouting from Trump and Vance. I really felt for Zelensky in that moment, some calling it an ambush. Loud arrogant standover men, even that reporter trying to embarress Zelenskyy about not wearing g a suit! I liked Zelenskyy's polite deflection of that slight. The Yanks there were the rude ones and the World agrees.
Was that your plan Mr Trump being such a Jeaniash?
I'm glad it all went to air and Trymp's big laundry pen dreid out.
Crayons 🖍 don't.
Don't apologise Presindent Zelenskyy, you have nothing to apologise for.
Trump greatly imbarrassed himself before the eyes of the world. Good!
It was nice to see so many Americans protest at the fiasco. Even Republcans were embarrassed. Too right they should be!
More protests too about Musk's fiscal razor gang now..
Trump, you're fired as the Leader of the Free World!
as the chatter goes ..,Europe, Canada, Australia, ... and others can do fine helping Ukraine without the US and shaming them., easily filling the shortfall due to the US Potus being so enamoured with a Despotic brutal Putin. How trite.
Zelenskyy's right in saying Europe defends itself by defending Ukraine.
I agree, sad to say. Stuff Trump, keep him out of any Peace Talks. He's only in it for his own advantage and his strange bromance with Putin.
American folk are now seeing and regretting the Wrecker they elected, for what he is doing. So many social mores trashed.
Wait till the US prices go up when their tariffs kick in, and after they've been sacked by Musk.
That'll be Obama's fault.
I must watch that movie "Civil War".
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love it. It was plain and simple an ambush (that mainstream media wont admit to) designed to make the little man who wont wear a suit, cower and acquiesce to any demand made on him. But Z is the leader of his nation and made of sterner stuff than that.
Update:
European leaders plus Canada and Turkey pledged to continue military support for Ukraine, with steps to secure peace in Ukraine and stability across the continent at a summit staged as a show of support for President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Leaders of Ukraine, France, Germany, Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Spain, Canada, Finland, Sweden, the Czech Republic and Romania, as well as the Turkish Foreign Minister were in attendance. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, European Council President Antonio Costa and NATO boss Mark Rutte were also at the summit table for what was billed "Securing Our Future".
But the attendees all agreed they needed the backing of the US to make the plan work.
Told you! So now Z will have to go on his knees with cap in hand to the people that humiliated him. Trump will be cock a hoop as the rare earth metals deal is probably back on the table.
There will be a cartoon out soon showing Trump standing in the Oval Office chest thumping with that stupid grin he often wears..
European leaders plus Canada and Turkey pledged to continue military support for Ukraine, with steps to secure peace in Ukraine and stability across the continent at a summit staged as a show of support for President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Leaders of Ukraine, France, Germany, Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Spain, Canada, Finland, Sweden, the Czech Republic and Romania, as well as the Turkish Foreign Minister were in attendance. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, European Council President Antonio Costa and NATO boss Mark Rutte were also at the summit table for what was billed "Securing Our Future".
But the attendees all agreed they needed the backing of the US to make the plan work.
Told you! So now Z will have to go on his knees with cap in hand to the people that humiliated him. Trump will be cock a hoop as the rare earth metals deal is probably back on the table.
There will be a cartoon out soon showing Trump standing in the Oval Office chest thumping with that stupid grin he often wears..
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Grier
Well-Known Member
On reflection I agree Craig about not kicking the US out of NATO.
Better still we have now the "Coalition of the Willing", mostly European but Europe and Ukraine want the US to help, if Trumpism extends to that ??? I hope they give the US the cold shoulder.
Australia has Ukraine's back too. $$$$$ so let's bankrupt Russia, almost there.
European peace keepers with concerned others and some Yanks would be welcome. History will speak darkly of Trump.
Lots of the assistance funds also come from Frozen Russian assets.
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The more recent funding has come from only asset profits Terry. Is being mooted the next funding will be from full assets proper, some E100 billion if not mistaken, perhaps more. Is imperative the Russkies pay for Ukraine reparations and to rebuild its economy. Once Ukn is in the EU it will have additional fiscal and security aid from some 30 nations, incl us and most likely newies Canada and Turkey too.
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President Macron floats one-month Ukraine truce:
In an interview with Le Figaro newspaper, he proposed a four-week truce "in the air, at sea and on energy infrastructure". It would not cover ground fighting along the front line in the east."In the event of a ceasefire, it would be very difficult to verify [a truce] along the front was being respected," Macron told the newspaper.
In a separate interview, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noel Barrot said: "Such a truce on air, sea and energy infrastructure would allow us to determine whether Russian President Vladimir Putin is acting in good faith when he commits to a truce. And that's when real peace negotiations could start."
Why? Have UN observers on the ground for verification.
Those Commie ships are now sitting off WA Terry.
A large drone has been spotted near the Australia-Papua New Guinea border. The aircraft was seen about the time the Chinese navy was passing through the area. Experts say it is likely the drone was collecting information for the Chinese navy to use.
Am unable to post image.
A large drone has been spotted near the Australia-Papua New Guinea border. The aircraft was seen about the time the Chinese navy was passing through the area. Experts say it is likely the drone was collecting information for the Chinese navy to use.
Am unable to post image.
looker-on
aka Thomas the Kraut
Thinking the unthinkable, Terry. Such a move would have enormous implications worldwide as completely new alliances would have to be formed. Right now it's still Trump who can decide that Ukraine will not be allowed to join NATO. This seems to be in conformity with a clause in the NATO agreement saying that a country in war may not be admitted to the club.
The question is why Trump doesn't go all in and withdraws from NATO completely rather than having to be expelled. That would actually be the next logical step considering that it's him now who says that NATO is brain dead and only exists on paper. If he did, it would mean that Ramstein Air Base, that giant logistics hub , would no longer be accessible to him. There's hardly any substitute for it in the European region. It would also mean that Trump would have to pick up his twenty nukes bunkered in Germany thus removing a crucial part of the continent's strategic defence system. Moreover, the UK would have to hand back the codes for her nukes which would strip Europe virtually naked since there'd be no deterrents except the French arsenal which is a drop in the ocean. It would be an invitation to Putin to go ahead. If Trump and his entourage want that, they should carry on.
Grier
Well-Known Member
Thomas, fair enough about the rules of NATO. Four years?
"Partnership of the Willing" sounds corny, and like a Yanky catchcry.
Could Europe and willing partners, hold back Putin's hordes in the Ukraine without the US? Some say yes, others no. Under than a different flag?
Some catchy acronym? POTW?
I've heard three reports about Biden's gift of support to Ukraine's defence from different sources with variations from 48% to 25%. Bean counters rubbery figures.
Trump embellishes the non-debt of course now only doubling the size of the US "gift" to support a sovereign democracy, under a moral Biden Presidency.
A Top shelf Scam In an attempt to extort hundreds of billions from Ukraine for nothing substantial in return, with no defence guarantees, and just asking for security got Trump and Vance shouting their way into infamy in a grotesque display of thugish uncivillity. The world saw it all.
Ambushed! 
My Austrailia is right behind Ukraine's defence against a Despotic Putin, Trump's friend. Our PM Albo even hinted at Austrailian boots and planes. Opposition leader Dutton agreed mainly but not sure about direct military involvement.
Democracy
.
A Dreadful System of Governance but better than all the rest.
"Partnership of the Willing" sounds corny, and like a Yanky catchcry.
Could Europe and willing partners, hold back Putin's hordes in the Ukraine without the US? Some say yes, others no. Under than a different flag?
Some catchy acronym? POTW?
I've heard three reports about Biden's gift of support to Ukraine's defence from different sources with variations from 48% to 25%. Bean counters rubbery figures.
Trump embellishes the non-debt of course now only doubling the size of the US "gift" to support a sovereign democracy, under a moral Biden Presidency.
A Top shelf Scam In an attempt to extort hundreds of billions from Ukraine for nothing substantial in return, with no defence guarantees, and just asking for security got Trump and Vance shouting their way into infamy in a grotesque display of thugish uncivillity. The world saw it all.
Ambushed! My Austrailia is right behind Ukraine's defence against a Despotic Putin, Trump's friend. Our PM Albo even hinted at Austrailian boots and planes. Opposition leader Dutton agreed mainly but not sure about direct military involvement.
Democracy
.A Dreadful System of Governance but better than all the rest.
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