The Serious Discussion Thread.

baggygreen man

also known as Richie
Staff member
I have been watching with great interest the growing deterioration of the Australia/China relationship over recent months. The catalyst having been Australian PM Scott Morrison's call for a global inquiry into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic. This has since led to a boycott of some Australian goods by the Communist powerhouse and our largest trading partner plus general bullying and intimidation. In recent weeks the situation has further deteriorated over tit for tat allegations of cyber hacking and interference in each others internal affairs by certain journalists and diplomats.

By calling for a Covid-19 inquiry Sco Mo did what other Free World leaders were thinking. Almost all were accusing China of starting the killer virus, which has killed almost one million of our world citizens, and calling it the Wuhan Virus after the Chinese city where it is believed to have first surfaced. The only people not accusing China were the Peoples Republic of China themselves. The Chinese have two distinct characteristics. One is inscrutability. The other is never seen to be losing face. So why is Beijing denying Covid's origins. Surely once it is found to have started in Wuhan they have lost face big time. Then there need not have been any reason to harass, intimidate and bully its trading partners and generally act like a petulant big brother. Comments.
 
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Signman

also known as Mal
This is something close to my heart as I look ahead for a cleaner future for my children's children and theirs. As we move well into the 21st century we humans have to start thinking about our future energy needs. What will run our industries, homes and transport over the coming decades and beyond. Comments.
Absolutely mate... everyone should be really focused on those things. 👍
 

Signman

also known as Mal
Reckon the world is never going to be the same again because of this awful virus - in NZ we went 100 days without one single case, then all of a sudden Auckland had to go to level 3 & the rest of the country to level 2... the whole country is in level 2 at the moment, hopefully we can get back to level 1 again very soon.
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie
Staff member
Reckon the world is never going to be the same again because of this awful virus - in NZ we went 100 days without one single case, then all of a sudden Auckland had to go to level 3 & the rest of the country to level 2... the whole country is in level 2 at the moment, hopefully we can get back to level 1 again very soon.
Oz was travelling very well until those VICs stuffed up their quarantine and aged homes and elevated the national death toll from just over 100 to 730 in a blink of an eye. Yesterday they had their first non death day since July.
 

Signman

also known as Mal
There tends to be a lot of selfish individual mongrels in every country... constantly amazes me that they don't give a stuff about putting other people at risk.
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie
Staff member
bumping:
This is something close to my heart as I look ahead for a cleaner future for my children's children and theirs. As we move well into the 21st century we humans have to start thinking about our future energy needs. What will run our industries, homes and transport over the coming decades and beyond. Comments.
I have given this topic its own thread.
 

69er

Member
Oz was travelling very well until those VICs stuffed up their quarantine and aged homes and elevated the national death toll from just over 100 to 730 in a blink of an eye. Yesterday they had their first non death day since July.
Really the Vics stuffed up? You must be from NSW. Remember Ruby Princess and I quote "An inquiry into the Ruby Princess cruise ship has identified "serious", "inexcusable" and "inexplicable" mistakes by NSW Health." Remember NSW health allowing a plane load of people off with no health checks and there were active cases on board. The majority of cases in Australia can ultimately be linked back to the Ruby Princess debacle, as at no time has NSW nor Victoria had 14 days straight with 0 new cases, the virus released off the Ruby Princess has never been eradicated, it is still in Australia. Sure it has blown out in a second wave rise in activity in Victoria but that will happen in a Pandemic but compared to the rest of the world Victoria is doing a good job maintaining the outbreak. But always remember the reason we have the virus in Australia for it to outbreak in a 2nd 3rd 4th wave infections, which are all still possibilities, is because of the incompetent NSW state government.
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie
Staff member
Yes we stuffed up the Ruby Princess incident.. tho the cruise company was also to blame feeding our health officials bogus info. A bit rich tho to say that a majority of cases can be linked to Ruby Princess. The official inquiry found that only some 650 cases and no more than 28 deaths were linked to the ship. I presume your a Vic. Your second wave came about due to the incompetency of your premier and health officials employing a foreign and totally useless security company for your quarantine. Gladys messed up by also allowing the same incompetent security company to oversee one Sydney hotel quarantine.. before someone blew the whistle. Luckily no major outbreak of cases ocurred. The mind boggles at some of our politicians..
 
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69er

Member
Yes we stuffed up the Ruby Princess incident.. tho the cruise company was also to blame feeding our health officials bogus info. I presume your a Vic. Your second wave came about due to the incompetency of your premier and health officials employing a foreign and totally useless security company for your quarantine. Gladys messed up by also allowing the same incompetent security company to oversee one Sydney hotel quarantine.. before someone blew the whistle. The mind boggles at some of our politicians..
Yes the mind does boggle but respect to Scott Morrison, he's handling the best he can despite having to deal with state politicians. Thou it sounds like your trying to shift some of the blame from your state gov onto the shipping company. The cruise ship doctor was deemed to have given all the correct information, and she even stated she would not have allowed the passengers to dis-embark. The NSW gov were totally responsible for the infection getting into Australian society.

Hotel quarantine it will never work as too many people are involved, and 99.9999% of people are too selfish to do the right things without complaining. What worked in the the past was quarantine on an off shore island, with zero contact. Look how many people from NSW have tried to sneak across the Qld border illegally. I think I read that Qld gov could not locate 30% of "legal" border hoppers, just shows that everyone lies to get their way.
 

baggygreen man

also known as Richie
Staff member
China increases tariffs on Australian beef, milk powder.
Those commies have upped the trade ante by imposing further restriction on our exports by hurting Australian beef and dairy farmers. They really are an insidious regime and it is now time for the west to put a stop to them.
Those Commies are at it again.. trying to further erode Australia's economy with its latest export boycott.. our coal. There are also reports the CCP has ordered its spinning mills not to accept Australian cotton. When will this stop and why is something not being done about it. Are we in the Free World going to allow the CCP to run roughshod over us because we may have stood on its foot. Where is the United Nations and when will the World Trade Organisation step in and put a stop to what China is doing. It is moral blackmail.. pure and simple.

Most likely the latest CCP salvo against Australian exports stems from Australia taking part in a recent meeting of the QUAD group of nations.US, Japan, India and Australia. Ahead of the meeting, Beijing had slammed the grouping as "exclusive cliques."

What is The QUAD and what are its aims. The Quadrilateral Security Dialogue or QSD or QUAD is an informal strategic forum between the four member nations that is maintained by semi-regular summits, information exchanges and military drills. It was established in 2007 by the then leaders of the four member states but was dropped a year later. It was not revived until as recently as 2017 when President Donald Trump of the United States, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India and Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull decided something was needed to counter Beijing's territorial ambitions in the South China Sea. Tensions were raised during recent QUAD military drills in the Philippine Sea.

My question is why is Beijing signalling out only Australia to further hurt our already struggling economy due to the pandemic and punish hard working Australian farmers and miners. I dont hear of similar punishment to American, Japanese or Indian farmers or miners. Comments Mal and Jessica.
 

69er

Member
You have this so wrong.

China announced in 2016 they were going to increase lithium-ion battery production to reduce it's need for fossil fuels. With that mining companies that produce lithium in Australia surged eg Mineral Resources Limited went from $3.60 in Jan 2016 to $22.00 in Jan 2018. Australia is the biggest exporter of Lithium in the world and China does mine Lithium, but still import from Australia.
Talison Lithium Inc. Greenbushes, Australia. Talison Lithium Inc. is the world's largest primary lithium producer - production from its Australian operation fills roughly a third of the world's lithium demand and supplies 75% of Chinese demand.

In February this year China announced that it is powering forward with nuclear energy.


China is also the biggest coal miners in the world. China is restricting imports to protect their own coal industry. Why buy at Australian inflated prices because Australia has the 6th highest paid employees in the world. It is cheaper to use the coal mined in their own country or in Australia by their own companies, especially considering that in the coming years they will require less and less each year.


"China is also the world’s biggest producer and consumer of coal. It produced 3.55Bt of coal (46.7% of the world’s total coal production), while its coal consumption accounted for more than 50% of the world’s total in 2018." They were never importing that much, I think 16% of Australia's exports were to China. That's 2 years ago and since then nuclear output has increased by 18%, Increase one the other decreases. China's plan is by 2035 will be phasing out coal.

Where to for Australia. Easy, if we could stop our left wing Labor and Greens from undermining the mining industry (sorry about the pun), Australia sits on the largest Uranium reserve anywhere in the world and by a long way. Kazakhstan has about half our reserves yet mine 4 times more per annum. But we aren't allowed to mine it due to our "commies".


Question is If we have jumped on board and made money out of Lithium and we have so much Uranium, and the world is going nuclear energy, why don't we have nuclear power stations to generate electricity in Australia? We do have Lucas Heights (south of Sydney). It is one of over 200 research reactors located around the world and is used chiefly for the production of medical isotopes, not electricity. Coal is dying, exports of coal will diminish every year.

As for the other problems re Beef and farming, that's what happens when left wingers make deals with Communist China, as it did in the USA under Obama, China became too powerful and now can hold countries to ransom. Love him or hate him, Donald Trump, took on China and enforced tarrifs, moved companies out of China, Banned telecommunications giant Huawei in America, absolutely canned China, someone had to do it and Trump did. But we're talking the USA, not a minnow like Australia. And how did China repond to USA, put CoVid19 carriers on a plane to America. Spread the love.

Also you have to remember Australia is a "sovereign entity", and as such can actually reclaim land, eg farms and land owed by foreign investors such as China. "A sovereign entity can decide and administer its own laws, can determine the use of its land and can do pretty much as it pleases" Australia can take away China's land ownership in Australia, and prevent them from using our land to feed it's people, make them import. We can hurt China, do we have the gonads to do it. The Australian government is the ultimate authority, against which there is no appeal in international law.

 
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baggygreen man

also known as Richie
Staff member
You have this so wrong.
Here you go again.
I have what so wrong? I am only reiterating what has already been written over the reason for Beijing's trade bans on our products.

Also you have to remember Australia is a "sovereign entity", and as such can actually reclaim land, eg farms and land owed by foreign investors such as China. "A sovereign entity can decide and administer its own laws, can determine the use of its land and can do pretty much as it pleases" Australia can take away China's land ownership in Australia, and prevent them from using our land to feed it's people, make them import. We can hurt China, do we have the gonads to do it.

This I was not aware of. You can bet Sco Mo has the gonads if those Commies push us too hard. He'd certainly have a majority of Australians behind him as well I am betting..

Question is If we have jumped on board and made money out of Lithium and we have so much Uranium, and the world is going nuclear energy, why don't we have nuclear power stations to generate electricity in Australia?

I agree with this.

Coal is dying, exports of coal will diminish every year.

Coal aint dying. An Indian businessman does not spend billions to build then mine an Australian coal mine if that is the case. India obviously wants coking coal to feed its steel and in turn feed its growing middle class.. Australia has coal. Lots of it. Did I read that we have two thirds of the world coal reserves. We also have the best quality iron ore that the world wants, specially the Chinese Commies.
Sco Mo wants to keep our economy ticking over by continuing to export these lucrative fossils, but cleaner ones thru carbon capture while introducing some renewables. Then gradually phasing out fossils for all renewables. This softly softly approach is the most sensible for our financial future. Not what the pinkos want, to introduce 100% renewables in one swipe.
 
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69er

Member
Your looking at it from the point of view of a journalist who doesn't always supply all the information, just what sells. You have to see all the big picture, it's not like China has sprung on us out of nowhere, they been announcing all their plans, we just never properly prepared for this, or maybe we did and the journo hides that to make a more sensational story.

The dumbest thing China ever did was buy land in a sovereign nation. Even "land rights" are rights awarded by a sovereign entity to some of its members. In other words, you can obtain land rights, but the ultimate authority rests in the hands of the sovereign power. What you can do
with that land is limited by the decisions of the sovereign power. Land rights are just all appeasement, they ultimately mean little.

Australia can declare all lands owned by China property of the sovereign nation and ask them to remove themselves immediately from these lands, as long as they offer some repatriation maybe $1 per acre, or maybe $0.50 it's up to the government. They can do it whenever they want and there is no course of appeal.

What would China do though in retaliation? declare war on Australia? Not with Trump in charge of USA, he would be patting Sco Mo on the back as a brilliant business move against his enemy China and we would have the backing of the USA. With Obama or Biden or Kamala Harris, they would be trying to say you can't do that, please reconsider otherwise you're on your own. Difference between strong, slightly crazy leaders, (scary when you consider he has 6000 nuclear war heads compared to China's 300), and weak leaders.

 
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69er

Member
Coal is dying, exports of coal will diminish every year.

Coal aint dying. An Indian businessman does not spend billions to build then mine an Australian coal mine if that is the case. India obviously wants coking coal to feed its steel and in turn feed its growing middle class.. Australia has coal. Lots of it. Did I read that we have two thirds of the world coal reserves. We also have the best quality iron ore that the world wants, specially the Chinese Commies.
Sco Mo wants to keep our economy ticking over by continuing to export these lucrative fossils, but cleaner ones thru carbon capture while introducing some renewables. Then gradually phasing out fossils for all renewables. This softly softly approach is the most sensible for our financial future. Not what the pinkos want, to introduce 100% renewables in one swipe.
India is currently the great unknown with regards to future for coal, if your right then the loss of coal export to China is nothing but a storm in a tea cup we'll just pass excess on to India. But then again 7 years ago there was hope with Turkey, who were becoming the India of Europe, but nothing eventuated there, actually another place that doesn't like Australian for some unknow reason, something to do with Muslims I think.

USA has the biggest coal reserve then Russia.

China will always grab what they need as you said quality iron ore, we'll just have to mark the price up on it.

Totally agree with you on everything else we have to have something to sell for an economy, take away mining what have we got?
 

Renegadesfan

Carn the 'gades!
Gotta feeling that this 69er character is a bit of a stalking troll. Who just spends most times on here abusing people.
Not a good idea.
He will most likely follow us around too making some dumb comments.

Here you go again.
I have what so wrong? I am only reiterating what has already been written over the reason for Beijing's trade bans on our products.

Also you have to remember Australia is a "sovereign entity", and as such can actually reclaim land, eg farms and land owed by foreign investors such as China. "A sovereign entity can decide and administer its own laws, can determine the use of its land and can do pretty much as it pleases" Australia can take away China's land ownership in Australia, and prevent them from using our land to feed it's people, make them import. We can hurt China, do we have the gonads to do it.

This I was not aware of. You can bet Sco Mo has the gonads if those Commies push us too hard. He'd certainly have a majority of Australians behind him as well I am betting..

Question is If we have jumped on board and made money out of Lithium and we have so much Uranium, and the world is going nuclear energy, why don't we have nuclear power stations to generate electricity in Australia?

I agree with this.

Coal is dying, exports of coal will diminish every year.

Coal aint dying. An Indian businessman does not spend billions to build then mine an Australian coal mine if that is the case. India obviously wants coking coal to feed its steel and in turn feed its growing middle class.. Australia has coal. Lots of it. Did I read that we have two thirds of the world coal reserves. We also have the best quality iron ore that the world wants, specially the Chinese Commies.
Sco Mo wants to keep our economy ticking over by continuing to export these lucrative fossils, but cleaner ones thru carbon capture while introducing some renewables. Then gradually phasing out fossils for all renewables. This softly softly approach is the most sensible for our financial future. Not what the pinkos want, to introduce 100% renewables in one swipe.
Coal is being phased out because it's actually bad for renewable energy.
If you wanted to use coal the amount of smog that spews out and causes health concerns with your family.
 
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