Well done Ricky Ponting

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Well done Ricky Ponting

Not sure if everyone is aware but Ponting today became the most capped ODI player in Australia's history.

This is a great achievement plain and simple.

Combine this with the fact he has been captain since 2002 and batting at number 3 you realise what a fine achievement it has been.

Players like Tendulkar and Lara could never combine being captain and the main batsmen, a point not many people pick up on.

Ponting has been batting at 3 his entire career in the ODI format, going way back to the 1996 WC in India/Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

203 matches out of 334 Ponting has been captain, a magnificent achievement.

Even now, our ODI team is going from strength to strength.

 

[Boris]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

Bloody long time he's been around for, and looking forward to another 50 or more games with him around.

He has done an outstanding job with the ODI team and from the few captains there are to choose from, IMO he is the best of them in this form. Plus the batting is unbelievable.

About time he did get the recognition he deserves.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

There wasn't even any articles in the paper mentioning the defeat.

Disgraceful effort.

 

[gandalf]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

There wasn't even any articles in the paper mentioning the defeat.

Disgraceful effort.

the "feat" perhaps?

I don't think he has been given the recognition he deserves. When people talk about the world's best one day batsmen, they usually talk about spectacular sub-continent players like Jayasuriya and Tendulkar. Ponting is probably better than all of them. His lack of appreciation was highlighted when he was largely ignored by the IPL bidders.

 

[Boris]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

I don't think he has been given the recognition he deserves. When people talk about the world's best one day batsmen, they usually talk about spectacular sub-continent players like Jayasuriya and Tendulkar. Ponting is probably better than all of them. His lack of appreciation was highlighted when he was largely ignored by the IPL bidders.

Exactly.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

There wasn't even any articles in the paper mentioning the defeat.

Disgraceful effort.

Well to be fair, it's not like it was a slow weekend for sporting news. There was plenty of actual results to report on without the need for those sorts of trivia news items.

I did see it mentioned in a couple of articles about the actual game.

 

[mas cambios]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

. His lack of appreciation was highlighted when he was largely ignored by the IPL bidders.

Which had absolutely nothing to do with Ponting being one of the most vocal opponents of twenty20? His record in the format is adequate but he protests too much!

Anyway, I think fair play to him in reaching the landmark. He overcame a shaky start to career, got his head on straight and has been a consistent performer for the team.

Jury is still out on his captaincy and it is probably unfair to say that he is above the likes of Lara or Tendulkar simply because he's stuck at the job longer. All three captained teams which had very different make ups as well as very different internal and external pressures - also lets be honest' for vast swathes of his captaincy the team pretty much ran itself although kudos for his efforts in the rebuilding process currently ongoing.

All three players are very different in temperament and I think it's fair to say that Lara and Tendulkar were blessed with a touch a genius which maybe made them unsuitable as captains. Ponting is a very, very fine player but maybe lacks that touch and as such is able to relate to his fellow players better?

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

Which had absolutely nothing to do with Ponting being one of the most vocal opponents of twenty20? His record in the format is adequate but he protests too much!

Anyway, I think fair play to him in reaching the landmark. He overcame a shaky start to career, got his head on straight and has been a consistent performer for the team.

Jury is still out on his captaincy and it is probably unfair to say that he is above the likes of Lara or Tendulkar simply because he's stuck at the job longer. All three captained teams which had very different make ups as well as very different internal and external pressures - also lets be honest' for vast swathes of his captaincy the team pretty much ran itself although kudos for his efforts in the rebuilding process currently ongoing.

All three players are very different in temperament and I think it's fair to say that Lara and Tendulkar were blessed with a touch a genius which maybe made them unsuitable as captains. Ponting is a very, very fine player but maybe lacks that touch and as such is able to relate to his fellow players better?

Well actually back then when the first IPL was being drafted and players were being picked and cash spent T20 was still nowhere near the current beast it is now. Even so, Im still not totally sure Ponting has ever been critical of T20 the format itself, rather he has been critical of the fact that T20 was growing seemingly unchecked and the impact this may have on ODI's and Test cricket.

People forget that in the very first International T20 Ponting played IMO the best innings I have ever seen in the format, 98* off 50 balls or something. These days you see guys swing themselves into orbit trying to belt balls for 6, that innings of Ponting's was characterised with pure cricket shots.

Im still puzzled at this notion that the jury is still out on his captaincy. The guy has been captain in the ODI team since the start of 2002 and the test team since 2004, in that time there has been a lot of highlights and some lowlights, but you win some and you lose some. Ponting isn't a great captain tactically, but his a strong leader who has the respect of the entire playing group he leads.

Simply speaking, a lot of guys don't last in the captaincy as long as he has which indicates a durability that other captains in the recent past have lacked.

 

[a for effort]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

Im still puzzled at this notion that the jury is still out on his captaincy

Ponting isn't a great captain tactically.

There it is

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

Yeah well so what?

Steve Waugh wasn't a great captain tactically either.

Either is Andrew Strauss, either is Graeme Smith, either was Allan Border, the list is endless.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

Im still puzzled at this notion that the jury is still out on his captaincy.
...

Ponting isn't a great captain tactically, but his a strong leader who has the respect of the entire playing group he leads.

IMO you've just answered your own question. Sure he does a good job at keeping the playing group together but one could argue that isn't the hard part. Australia's had an exceptionally stable team over the last decade, and a very strong, closeknit and winning culture instilled by the previous three captains.

It's not like he's having to deal with a deeply divided side, or one that has high turnover of players, or an interfering governing body like the PCB or WICB. The main challenges of his captaincy have been tactical ones, and he's not really impressed there.

I think he's been an adequate captain. He's mostly maintained the legacy passed onto him, particularly by helping instil it in the new players coming into the side. But captaincy has never really been a strength of his. He's Ultra Magnus, not Optimus Prime.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

IMO you've just answered your own question. Sure he does a good job at keeping the playing group together but one could argue that isn't the hard part. Australia's had an exceptionally stable team over the last decade, and a very strong, closeknit and winning culture instilled by the previous three captains.

It's not like he's having to deal with a deeply divided side, or one that has high turnover of players, or an interfering governing body like the PCB or WICB. The main challenges of his captaincy have been tactical ones, and he's not really impressed there.

I think he's been an adequate captain. He's mostly maintained the legacy passed onto him, particularly by helping instil it in the new players coming into the side. But captaincy has never really been a strength of his. He's Ultra Magnus, not Optimus Prime.

Haven't you noticed the turn over of great players under Ponting's reign, that neither Waugh, Taylor or even Border had to deal with. You could argue that no Australian captain in history has had to deal with the loss of so many high class players in such a short time.

McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist, Hayden - all of those 4 have very realistic claims of being in our all time best eleven.

Then you have another rung of players that are generally regarded very highly such as Langer, Martyn and Gillespie.

The notion that Ponting hasn't had to deal with a high turnover of quality players is absolute crap, Ian Chappell even picked up on the point and we all know that Ian Chappell is about as hard a taskmaster as they come. We are not talking about spuds who can't get the ball off the square, we are talking about gun players of which Ponting is the last remaining link to the so called Golden era.

The main challenge of Ponting's captainicy has been to maintain a high level of team performance during a period, as noted above, where the team composition has been extremely variable. I guess one player that went through a similar experience was Richie Richardson when the West Indies lost to us at home in the mid-90's.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

Simply trying to say that the main challenges of his captaincy has been tactical is pretty blatant cherry-picking to be honest. For a start, look at the crap he has to cop season in, season out in the media FFS.

The challenges have been immense, far beyond deciding whether to have fine leg a bit squarer of whether to give Johnson another over.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

Haven't you noticed the turn over of great players under Ponting's reign, that neither Waugh, Taylor or even Border had to deal with. You could argue that no Australian captain in history has had to deal with the loss of so many high class players in such a short time.

McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist, Hayden - all of those 4 have very realistic claims of being in our all time best eleven.

Then you have another rung of players that are generally regarded very highly such as Langer, Martyn and Gillespie.

The notion that Ponting hasn't had to deal with a high turnover of quality players is absolute crap, Ian Chappell even picked up on the point and we all know that Ian Chappell is about as hard a taskmaster as they come. We are not talking about spuds who can't get the ball off the square, we are talking about gun players of which Ponting is the last remaining link to the so called Golden era.

The main challenge of Ponting's captainicy has been to maintain a high level of team performance during a period, as noted above, where the team composition has been extremely variable. I guess one player that went through a similar experience was Richie Richardson when the West Indies lost to us at home in the mid-90's.

You can say this all you like, but the fact of the matter is that Australia has had a very stable side over the last decade. A4E crunched the numbers in another thread and showed that Australia has had very low turnover when compared to many other nations. Just for kicks I had a look at the other major Test nations he didn't cover. Australia is actually lower than all of them, with South Africa (33 debutants) being the closest.

Like it or not we have had a very low-turnover side during Ponting's tenure, which has greatly assisted in the transition from pre-2005 to post-2007.

Simply trying to say that the main challenges of his captaincy has been tactical is pretty blatant cherry-picking to be honest. For a start, look at the crap he has to cop season in, season out in the media FFS.

Which have mainly been centred around his tactical ineptitude.

 

[Boris]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

I think every captain is over analysed by couch captains who critisice their every move.

If you want a bad captain, look at *insert Pakistani captain whose name I can never remember*. That is what happens when you have bad captaincy.

Really shows you how hard we have been on almost all captains, not just Ponting, when many don't notice how good they really are.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

I don't think benchmarking to Yousef is really an appropriate way to go about evaluating a captain's effectiveness. A bad captain hinders his team's ability to perform. A good captain enables his team to punch above its weight. Captains like Border and Fleming and Brearley were very good captains.

Ponting is an adequate captain. He doesn't sabotage matches or his team like some bad captains do, but he doesn't have the kind of leadership and tactical intelligence that causes them to perform on another level either. His tactics are pretty unimaginative and pedestrian without being horrendous.

Fortunately during his tenure that hasn't mattered much. As far as talent goes we've always been as good as (and mostly better than) the best teams in the world, which means we haven't needed an especially good captain to win matches. One who doesn't screw things up is enough, and that's Ponting.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

I would have thought Ponting's leadership to be first rate, players want to play under him, they want to impress him and they want to be in the side. His the senior player in the side and everyone looks up to him, look at the way Harris ran to Ponting when he got those wickets. The players, especially the new players, look for acceptance from Ponting.

Look at Watson, how many of us knew he would be such a success in the opening position, probably least of all Watson. You can't tell me that Ponting's approach to ask him to open didn't instill Watson with the belieft that he could do the job?

As a leader I don't think you can get better with regards to how his players look at him.

You can crunch the numbers all you want about turnover, fact is your little analysis doesn't take into account the quality of the players that are actually exiting the side, and therein lies the fundamental flaw in your analysis.

We have lost a lot of quality players, 3 of which would be shoe-ins for our all time best eleven (Warne, McGrath, Warne).

I have always thought Ponting to be harshly judged, probably because his such a great player. It will be interesting to see how Michael Clarke is viewed by the T20 team, because deep down, some players would know that Clarke is indeed lucky to be in the team, let alone being captain.

 

[a for effort]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

Warne was a quality player, but I think Warne would have just pipped him out for the spinners position.

 

[The Ox]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

Warne was a quality player, but I think Warne would have just pipped him out for the spinners position.

Yes, but Warne was a better batsman than Warne.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Well done Ricky Ponting

Warne was a quality player, but I think Warne would have just pipped him out for the spinners position.

Nice to see a mod actually adding to the discussion.