Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

[someblokecalleddave]

I've got the team, that I'd be able to try things out with this weekend. Last year this was a weak team and we beat them easily, but my team is young and old with only one bloke who's in his prime and I wouldn't be surprised if he disappears as the weekend gets closer. But this current team I might be able to implement my radical approach with albeit slightly modified. I'm now thinking...
Open with a pace bowler and a slow bowler and only have them on for two overs each, I reckon most bats will have a look for the first over and then start to make their mind up in the second about how they're going to approach their innings with regards to the bowling their facing. I'm just looking at the stats now comparing the overs for all the bowlers collectively - so far it looks as though wickets are more often taken in the first two overs and then as the batsmen settle they start to play the bowler better. So, this two overs each approve might work? I'll look at the stats closer and come back with what I find.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Bring them up to mid on/off for sure. No easy single, forces them to be more aggressive. Good plan.

Midwicket coming a bit straighter (I think I read this in Ashley Mallett's Grimmett book) is another trick...opens a gap to midwickets right hand side, gets the batsman thinking across the line/against the spin.

Dunno if you have a bloke on the leg-side fence but if so and they aren't swinging, you can put him in at short cover (if only to open up the leg side boundary and have them thinking across the line again).

So long as you aren't putting yourself off more than the batsman!

I like the idea of leaving big gaps like that - but you have to bowl to your field with a good level of accuracy.

 

[Cleanprophet]

Fielders up and in the batsman's face really do make a difference. It's just a small thing, but it can just throw the batter a little. The thing is, you have to be accurate and have to get your length right. Any fielder that is prepared to get in the batsman's face needs you to ensure he's not in the firing line. Generally speaking, a fielder will only agree to go into that position if you are hitting a good length every time.

A nice option is to leave gaps in the legside and bowl from tight in at the stumps, angling the ball slightly away from the batter. The batter will be tempted to exploit the legside gaps but will have to go against the spin and the angle of the ball to get it there. Very good chance of a top edge.

 

[Darth Spin]

Bring them up to mid on/off for sure. No easy single, forces them to be more aggressive. Good plan.

Midwicket coming a bit straighter (I think I read this in Ashley Mallett's Grimmett book) is another trick...opens a gap to midwickets right hand side, gets the batsman thinking across the line/against the spin.

Dunno if you have a bloke on the leg-side fence but if so and they aren't swinging, you can put him in at short cover (if only to open up the leg side boundary and have them thinking across the line again).

So long as you aren't putting yourself off more than the batsman!

I have a deep backward square for the ones that stray down leg side but I like him there. I like the idea of moving mid wicket straighter to get them going against spin. I don't really bother with cow corner as I don't seem to get hit for runs there.

 

[Darth Spin]

Yeah definitely bring the mid on and mid off up at the start, I think SLA advocates this - it kind of says...
(1). If you're going to hit it down the ground for 4, you need to go over the top.
(2). I don't think you're going to be able to.

Think I'll give this a go next time I bowl. And if that doesn't work create a gap on the legside as suggested.

Thanks guys.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Collated some more data from games and so far looking at both innings ours and the opposition.
4 innings so far looked at and I'm only counting bowlers who bowl 4 or more overs. In four innings...

First over - 84 runs were made 7 wickets were taken.
2nd over - 89 runs made 9 wickets taken
3rd over - 81 runs were made 5 wickets taken
4th over - 97 runs were made 2 wickets taken

I look at more score cards and collate more data but from this small sample it's evident that wickets are taken in the first two overs - more in the 2nd. By the time the 4th over is being played when most people are allegedly finding their rhythm - the batsman are obviously finding their and scoring runs, whereas the wickets have dried up! So my two overs and off theory looks as though it may pay off? More data to look at though...

 

[boogiespinner]

I'm starting to wonder whether this is just a great run of form or whether I have just improved a load over the winter??????

"Nunc coepi"
att. St. Bernard of Clairvaux

"The best is yet to come"
James Brown

 

[SLA]

Fielders up and in the batsman's face really do make a difference. It's just a small thing, but it can just throw the batter a little. The thing is, you have to be accurate and have to get your length right. Any fielder that is prepared to get in the batsman's face needs you to ensure he's not in the firing line. Generally speaking, a fielder will only agree to go into that position if you are hitting a good length every time.

A nice option is to leave gaps in the legside and bowl from tight in at the stumps, angling the ball slightly away from the batter. The batter will be tempted to exploit the legside gaps but will have to go against the spin and the angle of the ball to get it there. Very good chance of a top edge.

Different batsmen are put off by different fields. With our batsmen we discuss the best way of dealing with different field settings, and so hopefully everyone should feel confident about scoring safe runs no matter where the fielders are. Bringing men in close means there are less men in the ring so more singles become available which can relieve pressure on the batsmen.

At the same time, different bowlers bowl best with different fields. I don't like having men in close in front of the wicket because I get worried about dropping short and stop spinning the ball hard. Other bowlers find it a confidence boost and bowl better.

 

[Cleanprophet]

At the same time, different bowlers bowl best with different fields. I don't like having men in close in front of the wicket because I get worried about dropping short and stop spinning the ball hard. Other bowlers find it a confidence boost and bowl better.

Yeah, that's the other thing about having men up in the batter's face. It does put a bit of added pressure on the bowler. In part because there are more scoring opportunities and in part because you know that if you drop short one of your mates may well wear the ball.

I've not had the opportunity of having a fielder in those positions very often because most fielders, understandably, are not keen on it. When it has happened, I've enjoyed it. I had a game last year where a fielder who usually keeps wicket said he would get in there with his helmet on. However, I was 2 or 3 overs into a spell and was well on top of the batters. I'm not sure I would be comfortable having a fielder in there at the start of a spell.

 

[Liz Ward]

"Nunc coepi"

"Say it with courage: Nunc Coepi - NOW I BEGIN and walk always in the service of God. Do not keep stopping to look back, because he who looks back cannot hasten forward. Do not content yourself with beginning this year. Begin every day, because each day and for each hour of the day the Lord taught us to say in the “Our Father:” Forgive us our trespasses. Give us this day our daily bread. And do you not see that the enemy seeks to take away your tranquility and confidence in God, two dispositions so necessary for praying well? Take there the counsel of St. Teresa, “Let nothing disturb you”, not even your spiritual miseries, because these are the object and the foundation of the infinite mercy of God, which surpasses the malice of all the sins of the world!"
Fr. Lanteri

"I feel good!"
James Brown

 

[Cleanprophet]

I managed to get half a game in today. I played for the friendly Sunday team because no other team was able to get a game in due to the weather. Even in this game today the conditions were poor. The outfield was wet with a little shower coming in from time to time. The ball was just too wet. I couldn't really grip the ball and even when I could, I didn't have much confidence that I could bowl properly. After about 3 overs, and one pathetic missed catch from a fielder in cover, I switched to bowling seam. Managed to keep it tight and picked up 3 wickets. But I really wanted to bowl the legspin today. I just hope the weather improves because it has been cold and wet these last 4 or 5 days.

 

[Najmul]

Can anyone please post a video of underarm leg spin bowling? I can't spin the bowl bowling underarm.

 

[boogiespinner]

It can be tricky to know the difference between your shoulder having had a good workout and your shoulder having been damaged. Experience helps with that. Once you've had a bit of a problem, you know when it's time to pull back and rest the shoulder. 4 or 5 days rest can sort something that, if you bowled on, would end up needing months of recovery. If in any doubt, rest it.

I've seen those pain relief devices. I'd be interested to see Liz's opinion on them. I tend to think that any effect may be psychological but what do I know?

The problem I've had with the topspinner/googly is 100% the same as you. I've not been getting that snap of the wrist at the point of release. However, I've had a big breakthrough this week. After having given up on trying to develop a googly, I was bowling in the nets with a bowler who is quite new to cricket. I've mentioned him before because when he tried to bowl the legspinner he just bowled a really good googly. Anyway, after watching him I decided to try it again and started to bowl the topspinner everytime. I went down to the nets for a second time yesterday evening. Just me and the keeper. I tried it again and it was coming out very nicely. I was making sure to really get through my action because you can tend to not do that when trying the topspinner/googly and that only makes it less likely you will snap that wrist and impart the spin you need. I'm still struggling to bowl the googly. I'd say about 1 or 2 out of 10 came back into the stumps. But, I'm happy with that. If I can bowl the topspinner on demand then I know I will be able to develop the googly very soon. To be honest, even if I don't, it doesn't matter too much as long as I have that topspinner coming out nicely. The keeper said the ball was hitting the gloves that much harder from the overspin.

Overall, I probably had my best net for months. I probably bowled for about 1h20mins straight and for the last 20mins-30mins was ripping the ball very, very hard. The keeper said the ball was hitting gloves very nicely. I just need to start a bowling spell with that same intensity and power.

hey. I'd had some positive experiences enough with the Pain Genie / SCENAR enough to have want to have one for quite a while. This is the first time I've tried them on a sports injury. I can't report a miracle but I've found it helpful and I'm hopeful that it is helping more long term. I find myself wanting to use it, although that could be for all kinds of reasons. There's certainly quite a few impressive testimonials and indeed videos of immediate results after a treatment. In the UK, it's licensed as a pain-relief device, hence the name and description. But in Russia, they consider it cures all kinds of things.

I'm very much into alternative health in general. It is a minefield though, and to believe that something is good because it is alternative is just as ridiculous as thinking that mainstream treatments are the only ones.

There's some testimonials and examples of sportsmen / women who use SCENAR here http://www.scenartherapist.co.uk/CONDITIONS- -CASES/CONDITIONS/Scenar-for-Sports-Injuries-Brighton-Lewes-London-Surrey-Sussex-U.K.html this doesn't prove it works but I think shows that it shouldn't be dismissed.

I have been somewhat foolish - I have gone as suggested (thank you Liz) to the GP who diagnosed rotator cuff tendinopathy. I have a physio appointment on Tuesday.

It's frustrating as I believe I am making real progress with my technique. I feel I've cracked something (a comment you made in a previous post about ripping the fingers 'over the ball' was really helpful). I'm confident now of getting a topspinner and more importantly a sound stock overspun legbreak. Can't wait to bowl in a match.

GOOGLY
With the topspinner you can snap your wrist just preceding release. And maybe you can get a 10 degree googly too. But I think with the googly - for a really big turning one - I think it's more about getting the strange position of the wrist set and the spin really comes primarily from the pace generated from the arm with the ball rolling off the fingers. I think the position you need is so extended, contorted even - that you don't have much play in the wrist at the release point. Have you tried starting small? I would suggest maybe (gently) bowling a googly first towards your face *, from the back of your hand, which is not uncomfortable if you get it. But that contains the essence of it. Then it's a question of keeping that arm and wrist position while your body becomes rotated 180 degrees.

* don't actually hit your face

 

[boogiespinner]

I have managed to locate and order the entire Grimmett trilogy of books! Hurrah for the internet.

 

[Liz Ward]

...to the GP who diagnosed rotator cuff tendinopathy. I have a physio appointment on Tuesday.

That is great news Boogiespinner! If this is correct, rest and cold therapy [not ice] would be enough. It is just a case of doing too much on unprepared muscles and not making the stabilisers take the strain. You should be right in no time!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Can anyone please post a video of underarm leg spin bowling? I can't spin the bowl bowling underarm.

I'll do one for you, leave it with me for a few days as I'll have to video it and edit the video. It's raining here in the UK for the next few days, so it may not be till next weekend. If I don't mention it again in the next few days remind me on here or send me a personal message.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I have managed to locate and order the entire Grimmett trilogy of books! Hurrah for the internet.

I bet you paid a fair bit for those! Tricking the batsman isn't cheap these days cos of this forum!!!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

hey. I'd had some positive experiences enough with the Pain Genie / SCENAR enough to have want to have one for quite a while. This is the first time I've tried them on a sports injury. I can't report a miracle but I've found it helpful and I'm hopeful that it is helping more long term. I find myself wanting to use it, although that could be for all kinds of reasons. There's certainly quite a few impressive testimonials and indeed videos of immediate results after a treatment. In the UK, it's licensed as a pain-relief device, hence the name and description. But in Russia, they consider it cures all kinds of things.

I'm very much into alternative health in general. It is a minefield though, and to believe that something is good because it is alternative is just as ridiculous as thinking that mainstream treatments are the only ones.

There's some testimonials and examples of sportsmen / women who use SCENAR here http://www.scenartherapist.co.uk/CONDITIONS- -CASES/CONDITIONS/Scenar-for-Sports-Injuries-Brighton-Lewes-London-Surrey-Sussex-U.K.html this doesn't prove it works but I think shows that it shouldn't be dismissed.

I have been somewhat foolish - I have gone as suggested (thank you Liz) to the GP who diagnosed rotator cuff tendinopathy. I have a physio appointment on Tuesday.

It's frustrating as I believe I am making real progress with my technique. I feel I've cracked something (a comment you made in a previous post about ripping the fingers 'over the ball' was really helpful). I'm confident now of getting a topspinner and more importantly a sound stock overspun legbreak. Can't wait to bowl in a match.

GOOGLY
With the topspinner you can snap your wrist just preceding release. And maybe you can get a 10 degree googly too. But I think with the googly - for a really big turning one - I think it's more about getting the strange position of the wrist set and the spin really comes primarily from the pace generated from the arm with the ball rolling off the fingers. I think the position you need is so extended, contorted even - that you don't have much play in the wrist at the release point. Have you tried starting small? I would suggest maybe (gently) bowling a googly first towards your face *, from the back of your hand, which is not uncomfortable if you get it. But that contains the essence of it. Then it's a question of keeping that arm and wrist position while your body becomes rotated 180 degrees.

* don't actually hit your face

The googly involves twisting everything you can possibly twist in order to get the wrist into position, your wrist, elbow joint and shoulder joint and then to get the last bit of twist you bend your body over (Head dip action that's spoken about). I always found that it was a massively aggressive whole arm action that was far more stressful than the leg break - but it always turned far more than my leg break and was generally faster.

 

[Cleanprophet]

I have been somewhat foolish - I have gone as suggested (thank you Liz) to the GP who diagnosed rotator cuff tendinopathy. I have a physio appointment on Tuesday.

GOOGLY
With the topspinner you can snap your wrist just preceding release. And maybe you can get a 10 degree googly too. But I think with the googly - for a really big turning one - I think it's more about getting the strange position of the wrist set and the spin really comes primarily from the pace generated from the arm with the ball rolling off the fingers. I think the position you need is so extended, contorted even - that you don't have much play in the wrist at the release point. Have you tried starting small? I would suggest maybe (gently) bowling a googly first towards your face *, from the back of your hand, which is not uncomfortable if you get it. But that contains the essence of it. Then it's a question of keeping that arm and wrist position while your body becomes rotated 180 degrees.

* don't actually hit your face

As Liz said, a bit of rest is all your shoulder needs. Not that I'm an expert, but after damaging my shoulder I've read up a fair bit on the shoulder and that sort of injury your GP diagnosed is quite common and just comes from overdoing it a bit. The physio will very helpful for you.

I've tried all kinds of techniques with the googly, including spinning the ball towards myself. It is a good technique I think. For me, it was a psychological thing. I was possibly over-thinking it. I was getting into position and, at the last moment, my hand pulled into a legspin release. It was just one time a couple of weeks ago that I ran up and bowled a topspinner without thinking about too much. Since then, I've filmed myself bowling the topspinner and trying to bowl the googly. Everything looks as it should, including that flick of the wrist. I still don't get the back of my hand facing the batter. It's more towards the slips area.

 

[Cleanprophet]

The googly involves twisting everything you can possibly twist in order to get the wrist into position, your wrist, elbow joint and shoulder joint and then to get the last bit of twist you bend your body over (Head dip action that's spoken about). I always found that it was a massively aggressive whole arm action that was far more stressful than the leg break - but it always turned far more than my leg break and was generally faster.

I think that's the key thing, bowl it aggressively. It's something I didn't really do when I was trying to bowl it. Focusing too much on getting that wrist position and not bowling full speed. The feeling, when you bowl it slowly, is that the ball is going to slip out - which it probably will. That's why my hand pulled in and never stayed in the correct position. Bowling at full speed is the only way to really snap the wrist and spin the ball. I've seen one of the balls I bowled and the ball came out of the back of my hand (well, not quite the back, but almost) and yet I still managed to drag it down. You can only do that by bowling aggressively and trying to flick that wrist hard.

That's possibly the one thing I would advise after my experience. Don't over-think it. Know the basics of what you are trying to do, but whenyou try to bowl it, bowl it with the same approach and arm speed you would for your legspinner.