Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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We had a number of those this season, SLA. Controversial so it was.

I was injured in a t20 match last Thusday dropping a skier. I didn't want to lead with my spinning hand so lead with the left and it nearly took my little finger off. Whole hand swelled up and that might be season over for me.

Bowled 3 overs 1 maiden 13 runs 0 wickets that night. It was nice to finally notch another maiden.
 
So with this latest injury and the last games being this weekend my season is now over. The stats I've been posting included some figures from games for a few different teams, but my official stats from the website for the team I play for now are:-

36 Overs 1 Maiden 245 Runs 13 Wickets

With an economy of 6.81, S/R 16.62 and averaging 18.85.

I am pretty happy with those numbers, but will need to work on economy. I learned a lot every time I bowled, had a couple of spankings early on in the season but tightened up on economy as the season progressed.

I will develop my top spinner over the winter ready for next season and hope to learn a slider, but can't actually bowl a square turning leg break yet so that might be tricky. I guess I will have to learn side spin first over short distances, underarm, round arm etc. and learn from there until I can bowl a square turning leg break, then hopefully acquire the slider after that. If that doesn't work I'll just go the other way and learn the big wrong un, which I think will be relatively easy to learn. Either way the intention is to have 5 deliveries ready for the start of next season. Of course I will still concentrate on the stock leg break the most.
 
Darth Spin said:
So with this latest injury and the last games being this weekend my season is now over. The stats I've been posting included some figures from games for a few different teams, but my official stats from the website for the team I play for now are:-

36 Overs 1 Maiden 245 Runs 13 Wickets

With an economy of 6.81, S/R 16.62 and averaging 18.85.

I am pretty happy with those numbers, but will need to work on economy. I learned a lot every time I bowled, had a couple of spankings early on in the season but tightened up on economy as the season progressed.

I will develop my top spinner over the winter ready for next season and hope to learn a slider, but can't actually bowl a square turning leg break yet so that might be tricky. I guess I will have to learn side spin first over short distances, underarm, round arm etc. and learn from there until I can bowl a square turning leg break, then hopefully acquire the slider after that. If that doesn't work I'll just go the other way and learn the big wrong un, which I think will be relatively easy to learn. Either way the intention is to have 5 deliveries ready for the start of next season. Of course I will still concentrate on the stock leg break the most.
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I would probably focus on getting two deliveries absolutely perfect rather than bowling 5 different mediocre deliveries. I found I bowled much, much better this year when I cut out almost all my variations apart from one.

What is the problem with the economy - is it too many boundaries? Too many singles? Is there any pattern as to how the runs are being scored? If you can keep your strike rate the same but get your econ down to ~5 an over that would be a good target for next year.

Since the last update I only bowled 3 overs, 1-13. Have got three more friendlies over the next two weekends and then its indoor cricket time.
 
Too many fours and too many singles with the odd wide thrown in. But I was getting better as the season wore on.

With the variations, I've taken wickets with my three different deliveries this season and the flipper is quite economical. So I don't see it too radical bringing in a top spinner. As I say I will practice the leg break the most but I like having the variation in my bowling.
 
Hey all,

I posted here quite a while ago looking for advice on what I now know was 'googly syndrome'. Thankfully those days are long behind me and I'm finding my bowling is getting better and better. I'm managing to practice several times a week and find I can rip the ball harder and harder whilst still getting it in some pretty good spots.

I'd like to thank Dave especially for his advice about the 'karate chop' action - really helped me a lot and I can now bowl anywhere from sidespin to top spin very comfortably (I've sort of lost my googly but I don't really care as I have a couple of other balls that spin the other way).

I've got a couple of issues though and was wondering if anyone could share tips on how they deal with these:

How do you continue bowling with your regular action, intensity and accuracy once you get tired/sore after many overs in the nets? I find my first 10 overs are usually very good, the next 10 are alright depending on how I feel and then after that if I get pretty tired my accuracy is all over the shop. Usually my shoulder or back is feeling a little sore and I have trouble keeping my eyes on the target while bowling or other technique/action issues.

Secondly, how does one go about getting the seam to land exactly vertical to the pitch. I found my leg breaks weren't turning at all on a wet pitch despite giving them plenty of spin and started wondering if perhaps I could change this through my seam position. My seam is coming out spinning nicely along it's own axis but slightly off in terms of the angle towards the pitch. The top of the ball is facing back towards myself by maybe... 20 degrees or so? I've tried cocking my wrist further inward when I go to bowl and this sort of helps, but I feel that by focussing on keeping it like that I'm losing some of the snap I use to get big spin on the ball. Any tips?

Cheers!
 
Firstly, fitness can never be under done and that should be the first thing you work on (in general, always best if it's cricket orientated).

You've asked 2 questions in your next bit.

Personally I get spin on wet/soft pitches by undercutting my deliveries as opposed to putting overspin on the ball, others here have not had the same experience so it may just be me.

Cocking your wrist helps gets the maximum action from the wrist as it unwinds so as to get more spin on the ball, this should be nice and relaxed and you shouldn't feel like you're 'locking' your wrist in place. Have a go at cocking your wrist and in a relaxed fashion unwind the wrist and spin the ball (in one action) to your other hand.
 
20 overs is a lot in a net session, even for a spinner. You would never bowl that many in a match would you?

Wet pitches are not necessarily the same thing as soft pitches. Soft pitches tend to turn a lot as the ball really digs in and grips, and the normal effects of backspin and topspin may be reversed, with backspinners turning and jumping and topspinners shooting forward.

Moisture on the pitch, whether hard or soft, tends to decrease friction, thereby increasing pace and decreasing turn. Same effect is caused by a layer of green grass.
 
keendude said:
Hey all,

I posted here quite a while ago looking for advice on what I now know was 'googly syndrome'. Thankfully those days are long behind me and I'm finding my bowling is getting better and better. I'm managing to practice several times a week and find I can rip the ball harder and harder whilst still getting it in some pretty good spots.

I'd like to thank Dave especially for his advice about the 'karate chop' action - really helped me a lot and I can now bowl anywhere from sidespin to top spin very comfortably (I've sort of lost my googly but I don't really care as I have a couple of other balls that spin the other way).

I've got a couple of issues though and was wondering if anyone could share tips on how they deal with these:

How do you continue bowling with your regular action, intensity and accuracy once you get tired/sore after many overs in the nets? I find my first 10 overs are usually very good, the next 10 are alright depending on how I feel and then after that if I get pretty tired my accuracy is all over the shop. Usually my shoulder or back is feeling a little sore and I have trouble keeping my eyes on the target while bowling or other technique/action issues.

Secondly, how does one go about getting the seam to land exactly vertical to the pitch. I found my leg breaks weren't turning at all on a wet pitch despite giving them plenty of spin and started wondering if perhaps I could change this through my seam position. My seam is coming out spinning nicely along it's own axis but slightly off in terms of the angle towards the pitch. The top of the ball is facing back towards myself by maybe... 20 degrees or so? I've tried cocking my wrist further inward when I go to bowl and this sort of helps, but I feel that by focussing on keeping it like that I'm losing some of the snap I use to get big spin on the ball. Any tips?

Cheers!
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Glad the karate chop analogy worked for you, lots of people have said that description has got them back on the road to recovery after the Googly Syndrome. Not knowing how old you are, it's tricky to say and it may be a case that you're already over-bowling yourself in these practice sessions. As SLA has said it's unlikely that you'll get that kind of spell in a match, although saying that several weeks ago a dibbly dobbly bowler bowled 26 overs in a match I played in and took 8 wickets! I would also be wary about the soreness in the shoulder and keep an eye on it, maybe rest up for a day or two when that happens. The rotator cuff muscle in your shoulder is susceptible to very serious damage, that you can't come back from if it's got as far as a certain type of tear.

The seam things is an advanced aspect of your bowling requiring very good motor-skills and yeah if you're over-focusing on it, the chances are that other aspects of your bowling will have the wheels come off. How long have you been bowling wrist spin?
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Glad the karate chop analogy worked for you, lots of people have said that description has got them back on the road to recovery after the Googly Syndrome. Not knowing how old you are, it's tricky to say and it may be a case that you're already over-bowling yourself in these practice sessions. As SLA has said it's unlikely that you'll get that kind of spell in a match, although saying that several weeks ago a dibbly dobbly bowler bowled 26 overs in a match I played in and took 8 wickets! I would also be wary about the soreness in the shoulder and keep an eye on it, maybe rest up for a day or two when that happens. The rotator cuff muscle in your shoulder is susceptible to very serious damage, that you can't come back from if it's got as far as a certain type of tear.

The seam things is an advanced aspect of your bowling requiring very good motor-skills and yeah if you're over-focusing on it, the chances are that other aspects of your bowling will have the wheels come off. How long have you been bowling wrist spin?
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I'm 24 years old. Over-bowling is almost certainly the case - was practicing a lot this past week and was getting better up to a certain point so might just give it a rest for a couple of days. I've been bowling (wrist spin as well as any other kind) for about 8 months. Next time I have a practice session I'm just going to try to have my wrist starting off nicely cocked while still relaxed and hope that that solves the seam issue. If not, I'm not overly fussed at this stage - I get good turn on most of the nets i've bowled at except for when it's wet.
 
keendude said:
I'm 24 years old. Over-bowling is almost certainly the case - was practicing a lot this past week and was getting better up to a certain point so might just give it a rest for a couple of days. I've been bowling (wrist spin as well as any other kind) for about 8 months. Next time I have a practice session I'm just going to try to have my wrist starting off nicely cocked while still relaxed and hope that that solves the seam issue. If not, I'm not overly fussed at this stage - I get good turn on most of the nets i've bowled at except for when it's wet.
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I've had a relatively good season this year (Just finished) a lot of things seemed to fall into place in the last couple of months without any real effort. I stopped worrying about my bowling and just bowled... went with what felt right rather than a mish mash of different ideas. There's a lot to be said for the relaxation aspect of bowling, whilst at the same time it seems slightly at odds with the situation, you've just been thrown the ball and now there's some expectancy that you should do something a bit magic, that kind of has a tendency to pile the pressure on? The things that seemed to make a difference and they all seemed to coincide over a week without too much trying, were a much looser grip (Ridiculously loose), a definite and pronounced cocked wrist and getting side on. The getting side on came about from ignoring my own mantra of running in straight and coming in at a bit of an angle, it just seemed to get the shoulders going over one another and the whole thing came together in a session or two.

I think there's potential to change things and learn new stuff all the time, for me this is six years in and the combination of these aspects combined for a whole new feel to my bowling. I just need to carry it through to next Jan and the early season nets.

What do you do for fitness and keeping yourself in order? I've been doing this over the summer combined with yoga..
 
Darth Spin said:
So with this latest injury and the last games being this weekend my season is now over. The stats I've been posting included some figures from games for a few different teams, but my official stats from the website for the team I play for now are:-

36 Overs 1 Maiden 245 Runs 13 Wickets

With an economy of 6.81, S/R 16.62 and averaging 18.85.

I am pretty happy with those numbers, but will need to work on economy. I learned a lot every time I bowled, had a couple of spankings early on in the season but tightened up on economy as the season progressed.

I will develop my top spinner over the winter ready for next season and hope to learn a slider, but can't actually bowl a square turning leg break yet so that might be tricky. I guess I will have to learn side spin first over short distances, underarm, round arm etc. and learn from there until I can bowl a square turning leg break, then hopefully acquire the slider after that. If that doesn't work I'll just go the other way and learn the big wrong un, which I think will be relatively easy to learn. Either way the intention is to have 5 deliveries ready for the start of next season. Of course I will still concentrate on the stock leg break the most.
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I'll have to try and go through mine, but I know now, you've thrashed me with regards strike rates.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
I'll have to try and go through mine, but I know now, you've thrashed me with regards strike rates.
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I look forward to seeing your figures, it's great to see you back on here.

I have been practicing the round the loop drill relentlessly for the last week and had a bowl tonight and I can finally bowl a bigger leg break. Not quite square on but pretty close. It felt like a big breakthrough. Hopefully I'll be able to do it again. The bigger leg breaks were a bit all over the place at first but then the accuracy started coming.

I also started bowling big wrong uns and they were coming out pretty well. I think the wrong un will be a strong part of my bowling but I am really careful about not over bowling it, and only started bowling it more frequently in matches right at the end of the season.

I've abandoned the idea of learning a slider over winter and instead will concentrate on going around the loop from big leg break to big wrong un. I'm toying with the idea of not bothering with a top spinner as it just doesn't come easily to me although I'm sure it's purely a matter of concentrating on it properly instead of making a half arsed effort. If I do ditch it I could then go with big leg break, small leg break, wrong un, big wrong un and flipper. Surely that would be enough to be getting on with.

Regarding this question about how much practice, I think you know when your body has had enough. Personally I practice both drills at home and net practice (tennis courts in winter) as much as possible and will typically bowl 30-50 overs in a practice. I'll never bowl that many in a match but I'll have a better chance of bowling well for the overs I am given. I'll take a break or two and mix it up to make it interesting. First hour is always leg break only, then I'll try moving along the crease, bringing in variations etc. I'll generally try to bowl for 2-3 hours if I can, taking to heart Phillpot's view that an hour is only a warm up. So Keendude maybe just take 5 or 10 mins out when you start bowling poorly and then go again?
 
This is is how I got my wickets over the course of the season:-

Leg Break - bowled 2 (1 left hander), stumped 1, lbw 2, caught 4
Wrong Un - bowled 1, caught 1 (left hander)
Flipper - bowled 1, caught 2

And in six-a-side:-

Leg Break - bowled 2, caught 1
Flipper - caught 1
 
Darth Spin said:
I look forward to seeing your figures, it's great to see you back on here.

I have been practicing the round the loop drill relentlessly for the last week and had a bowl tonight and I can finally bowl a bigger leg break. Not quite square on but pretty close. It felt like a big breakthrough. Hopefully I'll be able to do it again. The bigger leg breaks were a bit all over the place at first but then the accuracy started coming.

I also started bowling big wrong uns and they were coming out pretty well. I think the wrong un will be a strong part of my bowling but I am really careful about not over bowling it, and only started bowling it more frequently in matches right at the end of the season.

I've abandoned the idea of learning a slider over winter and instead will concentrate on going around the loop from big leg break to big wrong un. I'm toying with the idea of not bothering with a top spinner as it just doesn't come easily to me although I'm sure it's purely a matter of concentrating on it properly instead of making a half arsed effort. If I do ditch it I could then go with big leg break, small leg break, wrong un, big wrong un and flipper. Surely that would be enough to be getting on with.

Regarding this question about how much practice, I think you know when your body has had enough. Personally I practice both drills at home and net practice (tennis courts in winter) as much as possible and will typically bowl 30-50 overs in a practice. I'll never bowl that many in a match but I'll have a better chance of bowling well for the overs I am given. I'll take a break or two and mix it up to make it interesting. First hour is always leg break only, then I'll try moving along the crease, bringing in variations etc. I'll generally try to bowl for 2-3 hours if I can, taking to heart Phillpot's view that an hour is only a warm up. So Keendude maybe just take 5 or 10 mins out when you start bowling poorly and then go again?
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All my variations went to the wall for the most part this season, just focused on the leg break most of the time, tried the odd wrong un in matches, they were okay, but very ropey - much slower & loopier, just didn't feel confident with them. Flippers were worse! I've just read the Brian Wilkins Art of Bowling, Flipper chapter and found that really interesting. I might drop all the variations except the flipper based on some of the observations he makes regarding the Flipper and the fact that my best season ever was based around my stock ball, backed up with the Flipper as the variation. The stock ball at the time being the wrong un (googly syndrome years). So it'll be the Flipper for me over the winter along with more action on the leg break and try and sustain a decent level of fitness in order that I hit the ground running as such in the Spring.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
tried the odd wrong un in matches, they were okay, but very ropey - much slower & loopier
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That's a problem I often have with the wrong un. I really struggle with it. The flipper is one I'm using and enjoying more and more. Just like the leggie, I shift my wrist position with the flipper to get different results. One way is to angle the release towards the slips rather than straight down the pitch to the batter. That way, you can get a bit of movement into the batter. If you flick the ball out hard and bowl it with enough pace, the ball will drift away from the batter too, so you can start the ball on middle and leg, drifting it onto or just outside off.

The other variation with the flipper is to completely rotate the wrist so that your thumbnail is acually facing you and not the batter. You flick the ball up over the hand and not under the hand with the normal flipper. This creates something of an off-spinner with overspin and off-spin. Again, if you flick the ball hard enough and bowl it quick enough, it will drift. The only reason I worked on this delivery at all was because of the issues I had with the wrong un.

All that said, I continue to work on the wrong un.

I've had the problems I've seen someone else talk of recently where the seam comes out angled slightly, so that the ball will often land just slightly off the seam and on the shiny side of the ball. I just had to work on cocking the wrist a bit more. You really do need to video yourself as much as you can. For me, I effectively coach myself and so you need to see what you are doing to really do that job well. It's funny, but you will often find that what you see is not what you expect to see. When I cocked my wrist more, it felt like the wrist was cocked a lot. In fact, the wris was only cocked a little and probably not as much as other leggies.
 
Cleanprophet said:
That's a problem I often have with the wrong un. I really struggle with it. The flipper is one I'm using and enjoying more and more. Just like the leggie, I shift my wrist position with the flipper to get different results. One way is to angle the release towards the slips rather than straight down the pitch to the batter. That way, you can get a bit of movement into the batter. If you flick the ball out hard and bowl it with enough pace, the ball will drift away from the batter too, so you can start the ball on middle and leg, drifting it onto or just outside off.

The other variation with the flipper is to completely rotate the wrist so that your thumbnail is acually facing you and not the batter. You flick the ball up over the hand and not under the hand with the normal flipper. This creates something of an off-spinner with overspin and off-spin. Again, if you flick the ball hard enough and bowl it quick enough, it will drift. The only reason I worked on this delivery at all was because of the issues I had with the wrong un.

All that said, I continue to work on the wrong un.

I've had the problems I've seen someone else talk of recently where the seam comes out angled slightly, so that the ball will often land just slightly off the seam and on the shiny side of the ball. I just had to work on cocking the wrist a bit more. You really do need to video yourself as much as you can. For me, I effectively coach myself and so you need to see what you are doing to really do that job well. It's funny, but you will often find that what you see is not what you expect to see. When I cocked my wrist more, it felt like the wrist was cocked a lot. In fact, the wris was only cocked a little and probably not as much as other leggies.
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I like the point you make about what you think you do and the reality, I video myself a lot and play it back and as you say, reality is often very different to perception. I just wish I had a camera that could capture the finer details such as how you release the ball. Have you read the Grimmett books where he explains the main variations and my attempts on Youtube to explain them? Are you in Australia with the season approaching? We've just finished here in the UK, I reckon I'll work on the flipper as I said and totally give up on the wrong un. Like you I use two Flipper variations, an up-right seam version which swings like hell into the RH bat in some conditions and another with an extremely cocked wrist which I perceive looks like a wrong un that has backspin with the seam pointed // thus.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
I like the point you make about what you think you do and the reality, I video myself a lot and play it back and as you say, reality is often very different to perception. I just wish I had a camera that could capture the finer details such as how you release the ball. Have you read the Grimmett books where he explains the main variations and my attempts on Youtube to explain them? Are you in Australia with the season approaching? We've just finished here in the UK, I reckon I'll work on the flipper as I said and totally give up on the wrong un. Like you I use two Flipper variations, an up-right seam version which swings like hell into the RH bat in some conditions and another with an extremely cocked wrist which I perceive looks like a wrong un that has backspin with the seam pointed // thus.
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I've seen someone mention that, effectively, when you first start trying to bowl leg spin you are either someone who tends to bowl with an open hand (meaning much more prone to side spinners, sliders etc) or someone who tends to bowl top spinners and wrong uns. Having watched someone try leg spin for the first time, a couple of months ago, and bowl nothing but wrong uns I can believe it is entirely true. I fall firmly into the open hand side spinner category and it sounds like you do too. As a result, it's all I can do to bowl a top spinner that's halfway decent.

Whenever I tried to bowl a top spinner, I bowled a perfect leg spinner. It felt, to me, like I was getting my hand rotated quite a lot. In fact, it wasn't anywhere near as rotated as I thought it was. Using a two-coloured ball, I realised I was bowling with lots of side spin with most deliveries. As a result, I had to work that bit harder on getting the wrist around a bit more to what felt like a top spinner to me, but was actually an out-and-out leg spinner. As I say, it's very odd how you are often not doing what you think you are doing at all.

Linked to that was my back spinner/slider. I always felt that I was bowling the ball with the seam in this position // and with lots of back spin. In fact, the ball was coming out most as side spin and not very much side spin and the spin was imparted mostly by the fingers and not the wrist. Again, it was back to the drawing board and trying to find a way to bowl the ball with much more back spin. It's not easy and I'm still working on that one.

As for the wrong un, I find it useful to stand with the back of the hand facing me and work on spinning the ball up out of the hand and towards my face - trying to get the ball spinning to my left shoulder. That feeling of the ball being spun quite strongly off the spinning finger is crucial to a wrong un. The ball really does flick up off the finger. But, as I said earlier, I really struggle to rotate the wrist when trying to bowl it properly. Having asked someone to stand and watch my wrist position, I realised how much I struggle to get the back of the hand facing the batsman. It feels like I am really contorted when I do bowl the wrong un, but the person who was watching tells me that is not the case at all. I haven't given up on it yet, but I am starting to think that it may be beyond me.

The flipper and the subtle variations is one I really can do and it is very effective. The key, of course, is to flick the ball out as hard as you possibly can. I always wondered why Warne had to stop bowling the flipper after his shoulder problems. It felt fine for me to bowl it. Until one time when my shoulder was a bit sore. I could still bowl without any problem. Then I bowled the flipper and my shoulder wasn't best pleased. I realised then that the flipper really does strain the shoulder more than any other leg spinning variation.

I've seen you mention in the past how you have struggled to get drift on the ball. One thing I have found is that the only time that I drift the ball is when I really, really rip the ball hard. It's as simple as that for me. If the seam is cleanly presented and the ball is spun very hard, it will drift.
 
Cleanprophet said:
I've seen someone mention that, effectively, when you first start trying to bowl leg spin you are either someone who tends to bowl with an open hand (meaning much more prone to side spinners, sliders etc) or someone who tends to bowl top spinners and wrong uns. Having watched someone try leg spin for the first time, a couple of months ago, and bowl nothing but wrong uns I can believe it is entirely true. I fall firmly into the open hand side spinner category and it sounds like you do too. As a result, it's all I can do to bowl a top spinner that's halfway decent.

Whenever I tried to bowl a top spinner, I bowled a perfect leg spinner. It felt, to me, like I was getting my hand rotated quite a lot. In fact, it wasn't anywhere near as rotated as I thought it was. Using a two-coloured ball, I realised I was bowling with lots of side spin with most deliveries. As a result, I had to work that bit harder on getting the wrist around a bit more to what felt like a top spinner to me, but was actually an out-and-out leg spinner. As I say, it's very odd how you are often not doing what you think you are doing at all.

Linked to that was my back spinner/slider. I always felt that I was bowling the ball with the seam in this position // and with lots of back spin. In fact, the ball was coming out most as side spin and not very much side spin and the spin was imparted mostly by the fingers and not the wrist. Again, it was back to the drawing board and trying to find a way to bowl the ball with much more back spin. It's not easy and I'm still working on that one.

As for the wrong un, I find it useful to stand with the back of the hand facing me and work on spinning the ball up out of the hand and towards my face - trying to get the ball spinning to my left shoulder. That feeling of the ball being spun quite strongly off the spinning finger is crucial to a wrong un. The ball really does flick up off the finger. But, as I said earlier, I really struggle to rotate the wrist when trying to bowl it properly. Having asked someone to stand and watch my wrist position, I realised how much I struggle to get the back of the hand facing the batsman. It feels like I am really contorted when I do bowl the wrong un, but the person who was watching tells me that is not the case at all. I haven't given up on it yet, but I am starting to think that it may be beyond me.

The flipper and the subtle variations is one I really can do and it is very effective. The key, of course, is to flick the ball out as hard as you possibly can. I always wondered why Warne had to stop bowling the flipper after his shoulder problems. It felt fine for me to bowl it. Until one time when my shoulder was a bit sore. I could still bowl without any problem. Then I bowled the flipper and my shoulder wasn't best pleased. I realised then that the flipper really does strain the shoulder more than any other leg spinning variation.

I've seen you mention in the past how you have struggled to get drift on the ball. One thing I have found is that the only time that I drift the ball is when I really, really rip the ball hard. It's as simple as that for me. If the seam is cleanly presented and the ball is spun very hard, it will drift.
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Cleanprophet, you credit me with far too much skill, I think if anything I'm an over-spinner/small leg break bowler if left naturally, I really have to focus and try hard to get the ball coming out with the seam at 90 degrees and the idea that I could get the ball spinning backwards using the conventional wrist spinners action to produce an Orthodox back-spinner is pure madness! Going on what you've said at the end here, it's probably the reason I don't get that much drift!
 
Well after lots of hours in the nets I've improved my leg spinner to the point where i'm bowling a decent turning leg spinner on a decent length about 30-40% of the time from a runup. BUT the frustrating part is I can bowl huge legspinners on a good length 90% of the time from almost a stationary position on the crease -one step bowl. sometimes after hitting the "good" line & length they will spin that much they will spin off the pitch (just before reaching the keeper). Should I continue trying to find that delivery in my normal action or look like a fool and take up bowling from a stationary spot? Any suggestions please?
 
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