Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
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someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
Have a look at my main blog and link to him via there, you'll find his email address. It's in Writtle near me 14th and 15th April. Places are running out he said. Only 3 nets per day.
http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/
Have a look at my main blog and link to him via there, you'll find his email address. It's in Writtle near me 14th and 15th April. Places are running out he said. Only 3 nets per day.
http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
I just had a great session down the nets. The kind where everything just clicks and it all makes sense. Great line and length and miles of turn and drift. What a great feeling. I know though that this has happened before and its just as easy to go back the next day and lose it all again. Leg spin ay!!!
Anyway I havent bowled in a match yet and was wondering which deliveries would be my biggest wicket taker. I am guessing my top spinner as I get heaps of bounce and the leggy that turns a little and gets good bounce too. The top spinner would get batsman mistiming shots. The legspinner also getting mistimed shots because of the extra bounce but also edges as it turns just enough to catch the edge of the bat. I cant see the hard spun leg break as much of a wicket taker unless its bowling someone around the legs but on synthetic wickets it still bounces too high most tf the time. I think it turns too much to catch the edge most of the time. Stumpings are its most likely result and handy as a shock weapon so the batsman loses confidence when he sees how much you can turn it. The slider I reckon has great potential for bowled and lbw wickets especially on synthetic wickets.
These are only my speculations. I would be interested to hear from others experiences and how there variations perform.
I just had a great session down the nets. The kind where everything just clicks and it all makes sense. Great line and length and miles of turn and drift. What a great feeling. I know though that this has happened before and its just as easy to go back the next day and lose it all again. Leg spin ay!!!
Anyway I havent bowled in a match yet and was wondering which deliveries would be my biggest wicket taker. I am guessing my top spinner as I get heaps of bounce and the leggy that turns a little and gets good bounce too. The top spinner would get batsman mistiming shots. The legspinner also getting mistimed shots because of the extra bounce but also edges as it turns just enough to catch the edge of the bat. I cant see the hard spun leg break as much of a wicket taker unless its bowling someone around the legs but on synthetic wickets it still bounces too high most tf the time. I think it turns too much to catch the edge most of the time. Stumpings are its most likely result and handy as a shock weapon so the batsman loses confidence when he sees how much you can turn it. The slider I reckon has great potential for bowled and lbw wickets especially on synthetic wickets.
These are only my speculations. I would be interested to hear from others experiences and how there variations perform.
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
the leg break will always be your most prolific wicket taker. even if you get someone out with a variation, it will almost always come about because of the leg breaks you bowled prior to it.
variations only really work when they are used as a variation on the stock leg break. so the leg break has to be the primary delivery, and youll be surprised at how effective a good one can be without any variations at all.
line and length is as important as turn, bounce and drift. youll see plenty of club level spinners that take a hat full of wickets every match without really spinning the ball at all!
also, you dont have to hit the stumps to get a wicket. VERY few batsmen will leave any delivery from a spinner. it takes real discipline to know when to leave the ball. because spin is slow, batsmen back themselves to hit anything. so you can bowl 2 feet down the leg side and most batsmen will still take a swing at it. for this reason, any delivery that does the unexpected is a wicket taking chance. either by caught or stumped, if not LBW, bowled, or edged. so the big turning leg break can be very effective. but utimately it will be the stock leg break that does the most damage ball-after-ball. the variations only really work if they take the batsman by surprise.
chippyben;394612 said:
the leg break will always be your most prolific wicket taker. even if you get someone out with a variation, it will almost always come about because of the leg breaks you bowled prior to it.
variations only really work when they are used as a variation on the stock leg break. so the leg break has to be the primary delivery, and youll be surprised at how effective a good one can be without any variations at all.
line and length is as important as turn, bounce and drift. youll see plenty of club level spinners that take a hat full of wickets every match without really spinning the ball at all!
also, you dont have to hit the stumps to get a wicket. VERY few batsmen will leave any delivery from a spinner. it takes real discipline to know when to leave the ball. because spin is slow, batsmen back themselves to hit anything. so you can bowl 2 feet down the leg side and most batsmen will still take a swing at it. for this reason, any delivery that does the unexpected is a wicket taking chance. either by caught or stumped, if not LBW, bowled, or edged. so the big turning leg break can be very effective. but utimately it will be the stock leg break that does the most damage ball-after-ball. the variations only really work if they take the batsman by surprise.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
The Top-Spinner's a good ball to have but your Leg Break is going to be the ball that takes the wickets for you. 95% or more of my wickets are taken with a Leg Break bowled on a Middle and off line looking for the edge of the bat. As Jim says the majority of the time you're not going to hit the stumps, most of the wickets are taken from catches - Slips, Gully, Point, Wicket Keeper or stumpings. My leg break isn't a massive turner, but i vary the amount of over-spin so that it bounces less and more. I bowl differing speeds as well and do well just keeping it simple. I have a good wrong un that I use if the batsman gives it the 'biggun' just to remind him that I'm a wrist spinner and that I'm not a one dimensional bowler.
chippyben;394612 said:
The Top-Spinner's a good ball to have but your Leg Break is going to be the ball that takes the wickets for you. 95% or more of my wickets are taken with a Leg Break bowled on a Middle and off line looking for the edge of the bat. As Jim says the majority of the time you're not going to hit the stumps, most of the wickets are taken from catches - Slips, Gully, Point, Wicket Keeper or stumpings. My leg break isn't a massive turner, but i vary the amount of over-spin so that it bounces less and more. I bowl differing speeds as well and do well just keeping it simple. I have a good wrong un that I use if the batsman gives it the 'biggun' just to remind him that I'm a wrist spinner and that I'm not a one dimensional bowler.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
I like to see legspinners using legbreak as their main bait , at least 90% in most cases. And you are mainly expecting catches and stumpings. Need to set the field for this. The straight ones will get more lbw and bowled. Wrongun always handy. But big mistake is to use too much variation.
Steve Smith had to go back and almost relearn his basic legbreak whereas his variations like flipper, slider and wrongun are probably better than warnes at 20 years old. But in his last innings he got a bag and showed he learnt a lot in a short time. He has some competition from Boyce from Qld now as the best young spinner in the country. Mallett reckons Boyce is the best young leggie in years. Jenner thinks smith is too young and he is probably right but boyce is same age.
I like to see legspinners using legbreak as their main bait , at least 90% in most cases. And you are mainly expecting catches and stumpings. Need to set the field for this. The straight ones will get more lbw and bowled. Wrongun always handy. But big mistake is to use too much variation.
Steve Smith had to go back and almost relearn his basic legbreak whereas his variations like flipper, slider and wrongun are probably better than warnes at 20 years old. But in his last innings he got a bag and showed he learnt a lot in a short time. He has some competition from Boyce from Qld now as the best young spinner in the country. Mallett reckons Boyce is the best young leggie in years. Jenner thinks smith is too young and he is probably right but boyce is same age.
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
i had nets last night, first time ive bowled in about a month. my leg is still not right, but it didnt cause me any discomfort yesterday.
my bowling was pretty poor, im still trying to get my head around my new front on technique. i bowled a couple of excellent deliveries early doors, then completely lost it. had a bat, then couldnt bowl anything. so i reverted to my old method (the one that caused my injury), and the first delivery turned a mile. the lack of rotation in my front on action just means im bowling like a seamer. its impossible to turn the ball. i need to spend a ton of individual time working on it, but i still prefer my old action. i noticed my shin felt like it might re-injure itself at any second though, i could feel the strain. so im caught in the middle at the moment. but my bowling was very good from there on out. i clean bowled probably the best batsman at the club, hes a youth player, but hes got awesome technique. hes the one batsman ive never caused problems in the past, and i got him with a peach that drifted a mile and he misjudged the flight, and i bowled him through the gate. i got another one a few balls earlier to turn back through his legs and almost bowled him with that!! the drift caused him nightmares.
i had a long bat though, the most batting ive ever done. my main focus was on keeping my eyes level, watching the ball all the time with intent focus, and using a new stance and backlift that i worked on in the mirror prior to nets lol. trying to emulate what a proper batsman might look like, rather than my own poor technique. this wouldnt normally be a discussion for this thread, but ive developed a philosophy on batting to spinners that i think is worth discussing in here.
fast bowlers i try to play straight bat. its the only way to play them safely. i generally just play defensive drives to anything at the stumps, and look to score off of loose deliveries. defensive drives to really quick guys can end up as runs anyway if you middle it!
spin bowlers i have an awesome method to, even if i do say so myself. and you know youre batting well when the spin bowlers are getting furious with you!! if its outside off stump, il play it off the back foot and cut it, regardless of length. im weak on the off side, and its the only shot ive got. i will NEVER play a straight bat shot to ANY delivery. if its on the stumps or to the leg side then it gets swept off the front foot if its full, or pulled off the back foot if its short.
i was hitting lots of sweeps, so then the bowlers were saying "were putting 5 fielders on the leg side". so i carried on, and then they said "theres 7 fielders on the leg side", so i carried on anyway and hit a few over the top lol. most people would think that is just retarded, but my philosophy is this...
a standard field would probably have a man at square leg, deep square leg, mid wicket, and fine leg. the way i hit sweeps (usually very hard) means that square leg and mid wicket are out of the equation unless it goes within about 5 yards of them. in which case ive got an easy single, possibly 2, even if the man in the deep gets to it. but if its 10-15 yards either side of him then hes got no chance. if i make a weak contact then il get a single to the closer fielders, or 2-3 if it goes past them.
after a few overs any sensible captain would move men out there. so lets say there is a square leg, mid wicket, fine leg, deep backward square leg, deep forward square leg, deep mid wicket. thats a VERY biassed field, and most captains wouldnt dare do that until id been playing everything leg side for probably 10 overs. even in this situation, there are still singles and 2's on offer if i place the ball anywhere in between the fielders. and 4's are still possible with enough power. there is obviously a greater risk of being caught if the ball goes airborne, but i roll my wrists so i almost always keep it down. occasional top edges are my biggest issue. the beauty of this field placing though is that im in control. im dictating the field, and bowlers are going to try and bowl leg side to me just to try and force a mistake.
the other possibility is that the bowlers are foolish enough to bowl off side to me. and my cut shot is pretty good. i can sweep and pull deliveries on off stump, so the only way theyll stop me is to bowl outside off, and then the cut is easy to play. so then the field has to remain spread and there are easy runs on offer. so most captains will end up with a strong leg side bias.
and the next part of my plan is to learn to play the reverse sweep. then i can sweep, sweep, sweep. the field gets altered, then i can reverse sweep a few for easy runs. the captain will lose his nerve before i do because i just dont care lol, im a bowler not a batsman and not expected to score runs. so then the field placings go back to a more even spread, and then my sweep becomes easier again.
its almost foolproof!
the bowler can bowl short or full. he will never find my edge because my bat is always horizontal so turn plays no part. the only way il top edge is if i misjudge the delivery, and i read spin well. so the only solution is for them to be negative and bowl leg side to a packed leg side field. and all i need then is a reverse sweep!
i cant wait to try it in a match. the bowlers yesterday were going mental, i was getting endless "play proper shots ffs" comments. my response was "these are the only shots ive got, and i play like this in matches as well". i got out a few times, but it was the kind of "innings" where i probably would have scored 30 off 15 deliveries. which is the role i play generally batting at 7-10 in the order.
i had nets last night, first time ive bowled in about a month. my leg is still not right, but it didnt cause me any discomfort yesterday.
my bowling was pretty poor, im still trying to get my head around my new front on technique. i bowled a couple of excellent deliveries early doors, then completely lost it. had a bat, then couldnt bowl anything. so i reverted to my old method (the one that caused my injury), and the first delivery turned a mile. the lack of rotation in my front on action just means im bowling like a seamer. its impossible to turn the ball. i need to spend a ton of individual time working on it, but i still prefer my old action. i noticed my shin felt like it might re-injure itself at any second though, i could feel the strain. so im caught in the middle at the moment. but my bowling was very good from there on out. i clean bowled probably the best batsman at the club, hes a youth player, but hes got awesome technique. hes the one batsman ive never caused problems in the past, and i got him with a peach that drifted a mile and he misjudged the flight, and i bowled him through the gate. i got another one a few balls earlier to turn back through his legs and almost bowled him with that!! the drift caused him nightmares.
i had a long bat though, the most batting ive ever done. my main focus was on keeping my eyes level, watching the ball all the time with intent focus, and using a new stance and backlift that i worked on in the mirror prior to nets lol. trying to emulate what a proper batsman might look like, rather than my own poor technique. this wouldnt normally be a discussion for this thread, but ive developed a philosophy on batting to spinners that i think is worth discussing in here.
fast bowlers i try to play straight bat. its the only way to play them safely. i generally just play defensive drives to anything at the stumps, and look to score off of loose deliveries. defensive drives to really quick guys can end up as runs anyway if you middle it!
spin bowlers i have an awesome method to, even if i do say so myself. and you know youre batting well when the spin bowlers are getting furious with you!! if its outside off stump, il play it off the back foot and cut it, regardless of length. im weak on the off side, and its the only shot ive got. i will NEVER play a straight bat shot to ANY delivery. if its on the stumps or to the leg side then it gets swept off the front foot if its full, or pulled off the back foot if its short.
i was hitting lots of sweeps, so then the bowlers were saying "were putting 5 fielders on the leg side". so i carried on, and then they said "theres 7 fielders on the leg side", so i carried on anyway and hit a few over the top lol. most people would think that is just retarded, but my philosophy is this...
a standard field would probably have a man at square leg, deep square leg, mid wicket, and fine leg. the way i hit sweeps (usually very hard) means that square leg and mid wicket are out of the equation unless it goes within about 5 yards of them. in which case ive got an easy single, possibly 2, even if the man in the deep gets to it. but if its 10-15 yards either side of him then hes got no chance. if i make a weak contact then il get a single to the closer fielders, or 2-3 if it goes past them.
after a few overs any sensible captain would move men out there. so lets say there is a square leg, mid wicket, fine leg, deep backward square leg, deep forward square leg, deep mid wicket. thats a VERY biassed field, and most captains wouldnt dare do that until id been playing everything leg side for probably 10 overs. even in this situation, there are still singles and 2's on offer if i place the ball anywhere in between the fielders. and 4's are still possible with enough power. there is obviously a greater risk of being caught if the ball goes airborne, but i roll my wrists so i almost always keep it down. occasional top edges are my biggest issue. the beauty of this field placing though is that im in control. im dictating the field, and bowlers are going to try and bowl leg side to me just to try and force a mistake.
the other possibility is that the bowlers are foolish enough to bowl off side to me. and my cut shot is pretty good. i can sweep and pull deliveries on off stump, so the only way theyll stop me is to bowl outside off, and then the cut is easy to play. so then the field has to remain spread and there are easy runs on offer. so most captains will end up with a strong leg side bias.
and the next part of my plan is to learn to play the reverse sweep. then i can sweep, sweep, sweep. the field gets altered, then i can reverse sweep a few for easy runs. the captain will lose his nerve before i do because i just dont care lol, im a bowler not a batsman and not expected to score runs. so then the field placings go back to a more even spread, and then my sweep becomes easier again.
its almost foolproof!
the bowler can bowl short or full. he will never find my edge because my bat is always horizontal so turn plays no part. the only way il top edge is if i misjudge the delivery, and i read spin well. so the only solution is for them to be negative and bowl leg side to a packed leg side field. and all i need then is a reverse sweep!
i cant wait to try it in a match. the bowlers yesterday were going mental, i was getting endless "play proper shots ffs" comments. my response was "these are the only shots ive got, and i play like this in matches as well". i got out a few times, but it was the kind of "innings" where i probably would have scored 30 off 15 deliveries. which is the role i play generally batting at 7-10 in the order.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
Why did they not bowl over-spun Leg Breaks with variable bounce most of the time on your off-stump, that way they may have lulled you into a false sense that the only problem you faced was the chance of top edging it? Once they'd got you in that frame of mind the Wrong Un or a straight ball would have offered a solution?
I'm looking forward to bowling against you now as well!!!!
Why did they not bowl over-spun Leg Breaks with variable bounce most of the time on your off-stump, that way they may have lulled you into a false sense that the only problem you faced was the chance of top edging it? Once they'd got you in that frame of mind the Wrong Un or a straight ball would have offered a solution?
I'm looking forward to bowling against you now as well!!!!
gundalf7
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
yeah that boyce lad looks pretty decent; action reminds me a lot of macgill, his seam position isn't good though, though it shows how much he spins it as he is getting good turn even with really scrambled balls, didn't seem to have any variation other than the leggie but i'm sure he can learn a couple in the aussie off season and do well next year.
macca;394691 said:
yeah that boyce lad looks pretty decent; action reminds me a lot of macgill, his seam position isn't good though, though it shows how much he spins it as he is getting good turn even with really scrambled balls, didn't seem to have any variation other than the leggie but i'm sure he can learn a couple in the aussie off season and do well next year.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
I found a clip of the sheffield shield 2010. Bryce MacGain gets wickets here. I do not think there are any clips of Boyce. If anyone can find them can you post them please. YouTube - Victoria Vs Queensland Sheffield Shield Final, 2010
I found a clip of the sheffield shield 2010. Bryce MacGain gets wickets here. I do not think there are any clips of Boyce. If anyone can find them can you post them please. YouTube - Victoria Vs Queensland Sheffield Shield Final, 2010
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
none of the bowlers in question are probably skilled enough to think about variations. they didnt even change their line! there was only one leggie, the other 3 were offies one of whom bowls an occasional leg break, but not conventionally.
they just kept bowling to my strengths. so i kept smashing the ball there lol. all the fielders in the world wont stop me scoring in my strongest area.
i think maybe they were discouraged by the fact that every time they tried to bowl outside off i cut the ball pretty well too. i can sweep anything thats inline with the stumps or outside leg. regardless of length. if its short i use my feet, if its really full i hit it full toss. theyd have to go REALLY short, and then i rock onto the back foot and pull it instead.
if i was bowling at myself, i reckon id get me out really easily. but off spinners dont possess the deliveries to do it (because im playing with the spin, and they cant rev the ball hard enough to get it to do anything in flight). i get out through mistakes, rather than being outclassed.
i think im onto something by never playing a straight bat shot though. ive said it plenty of times (as have others on here) that the opening first XI bats are usually the easiest to cause problems for with leg spin, because they have a very conventional and strong technique, which means straight bat all the time, and all you have to do is land the ball in that area of doubt where they want to come forwards to balls that they shouldnt be. and then any turn or drift whatsoever finds (or beats) the edge.
someblokecalleddave;394822 said:
none of the bowlers in question are probably skilled enough to think about variations. they didnt even change their line! there was only one leggie, the other 3 were offies one of whom bowls an occasional leg break, but not conventionally.
they just kept bowling to my strengths. so i kept smashing the ball there lol. all the fielders in the world wont stop me scoring in my strongest area.
i think maybe they were discouraged by the fact that every time they tried to bowl outside off i cut the ball pretty well too. i can sweep anything thats inline with the stumps or outside leg. regardless of length. if its short i use my feet, if its really full i hit it full toss. theyd have to go REALLY short, and then i rock onto the back foot and pull it instead.
if i was bowling at myself, i reckon id get me out really easily. but off spinners dont possess the deliveries to do it (because im playing with the spin, and they cant rev the ball hard enough to get it to do anything in flight). i get out through mistakes, rather than being outclassed.
i think im onto something by never playing a straight bat shot though. ive said it plenty of times (as have others on here) that the opening first XI bats are usually the easiest to cause problems for with leg spin, because they have a very conventional and strong technique, which means straight bat all the time, and all you have to do is land the ball in that area of doubt where they want to come forwards to balls that they shouldnt be. and then any turn or drift whatsoever finds (or beats) the edge.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
I find the hardest thing about trying to play straight against spinners is the bounce. Unless you can get right forward using plenty of footwork rather than just getting or stretching a little forward it is hard to play straight to good length legspin.
I reckon the most heroic way for a batsman to be dismissed is being stumped yards out of his crease by a spinner. Not just a yard and a half but 3 or 4 or more yards.
Jim2109;394972 said:
I find the hardest thing about trying to play straight against spinners is the bounce. Unless you can get right forward using plenty of footwork rather than just getting or stretching a little forward it is hard to play straight to good length legspin.
I reckon the most heroic way for a batsman to be dismissed is being stumped yards out of his crease by a spinner. Not just a yard and a half but 3 or 4 or more yards.
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
heroic for the batsman? i kind of agree, because as a batsman i dont mind getting out stumped trying an aggressive shot. and theres nothing more impressive than getting 3 yards out of your crease and playing a shot, especially if it goes to the boundary. i love watching Michael Clarke, Kevin Pietersen and AB de Villiers when they are on top form for this very reason. all 3 of them have fantastic feet, and arent afraid to come charging down the wicket at spinners.
as a bowler though, i count stumped as one of my favourite modes of dismissal. if the batsman is just an idiot and comes charging at you without a purpose, well then its satisfying knowing that you are far more intelligent than he is. if hes a good batsman, came down the pitch to play what would have been a very good shot, but was beaten by flight, well then thats the 2nd most satisfying dismissal possible! the most satisfying being that same scenario, but bowling him instead of stumped!!
i managed the latter at nets on Monday, to one of the best batsmen at the club, and probably the best against spin. normally he plays me easily, and hes a top leg spinner as well (hes primarily a seamer, but his leg spin is excellent). but he came down the pitch to drive me, he got to the pitch perfectly, but got beaten by some pretty big drift and then the ball turned gently back through the gate and took middle stump.
with regards straight bats and bounce - this is the exact problem i observe most of the good batsmen at my club having against me. no 2 balls ever bounce the same, i can bowl what should be the same delivery and the first one might land perfectly on seam and bounce a mile, the next one might stay lower. and thats without me even varying my overspin!! so they will play a couple off the middle of the bat, then the next one gets high on them and they edge it off the shoulder to first slip! other times one just stays really low on them with a bit of backspin and they do well to bat anywhere near it.
which is where the danger is in playing straight bat. youve got to have amazing footwork to negate the ball off the pitch. but by coming down the pitch youre vulnerable to drift and dip. playing sweeps and cut and pull shots means that you present a wider target to the ball, so turn is less of an issue, as is drift. you can never account for bounce and dip, but the sweep shot is played as the ball bounces (or full toss), and the cut/pull shots are played off the back foot so youve got loads of time to react.
i reckon im onto something pretty good with this theory. i just hope other batsmen dont catch on, because i want all of them to play me straight bat!!!!
macca;394985 said:
heroic for the batsman? i kind of agree, because as a batsman i dont mind getting out stumped trying an aggressive shot. and theres nothing more impressive than getting 3 yards out of your crease and playing a shot, especially if it goes to the boundary. i love watching Michael Clarke, Kevin Pietersen and AB de Villiers when they are on top form for this very reason. all 3 of them have fantastic feet, and arent afraid to come charging down the wicket at spinners.
as a bowler though, i count stumped as one of my favourite modes of dismissal. if the batsman is just an idiot and comes charging at you without a purpose, well then its satisfying knowing that you are far more intelligent than he is. if hes a good batsman, came down the pitch to play what would have been a very good shot, but was beaten by flight, well then thats the 2nd most satisfying dismissal possible! the most satisfying being that same scenario, but bowling him instead of stumped!!
i managed the latter at nets on Monday, to one of the best batsmen at the club, and probably the best against spin. normally he plays me easily, and hes a top leg spinner as well (hes primarily a seamer, but his leg spin is excellent). but he came down the pitch to drive me, he got to the pitch perfectly, but got beaten by some pretty big drift and then the ball turned gently back through the gate and took middle stump.
with regards straight bats and bounce - this is the exact problem i observe most of the good batsmen at my club having against me. no 2 balls ever bounce the same, i can bowl what should be the same delivery and the first one might land perfectly on seam and bounce a mile, the next one might stay lower. and thats without me even varying my overspin!! so they will play a couple off the middle of the bat, then the next one gets high on them and they edge it off the shoulder to first slip! other times one just stays really low on them with a bit of backspin and they do well to bat anywhere near it.
which is where the danger is in playing straight bat. youve got to have amazing footwork to negate the ball off the pitch. but by coming down the pitch youre vulnerable to drift and dip. playing sweeps and cut and pull shots means that you present a wider target to the ball, so turn is less of an issue, as is drift. you can never account for bounce and dip, but the sweep shot is played as the ball bounces (or full toss), and the cut/pull shots are played off the back foot so youve got loads of time to react.
i reckon im onto something pretty good with this theory. i just hope other batsmen dont catch on, because i want all of them to play me straight bat!!!!
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
i had a solo net practice this morning, the first in a while, and the first since my injury flared up. it was much needed, as ive been awful at indoor nets. not having any time to work on my action without distractions has meant that i wasnt improving or finding my pre-injury form.
anyway, i had a good 2 hour long session, bowled at full effort, and im pleased to report that my leg isnt hurting. it feels fragile, and at times it feels like it might start to hurt again any minute, but the important thing is that it doesnt!
ive managed to alter my action to a front-on one, as recommended by Liz Ward when she looked at video of my action to identify the potential causes of my injury. i pretty much run straight through now, with just a small twist at the hips. my leading foot plants hard, points down the wicket (i need to check the video to see how much, it feels dead straight, but it can be deceptive), and then i use my ARMS to generate all of my rotation...
the arms have been something i have always overlooked. on YouTube quite a few people have criticised my early videos saying that i dont use my front arm. it always worked for me, but obviously i was using my feet (stepping across myself) to generate the rotation, which i now see was not the correct way to do it. i now focus literally all of my attention on where i land my leading foot, and then what my leading arm does. by following a specific routine, and also timing my weight transfer from back to front, i have found some excellent consistency.
todays session was possibly the best ive ever had, definitely top 3. apart from the ever-present issue of a tendancy to stray legside, i was bowling excellently. ive regained completely control of the "round-the-loop" seam angles, i can bowl all the angles at will now from an almost-top-spinner (its still got about 15 degrees of side on it), right round to a full on zooter. my zooter was as good today as its ever been, and im hitting the stumps with it on a consistent basis. id gladly bowl it in a match situation.
i also did a little work on my flippers. they arent quite there, the off spinning flipper is working in terms of accuracy, but im not finding the seam with it, so its turning small. my back spinning flipper is there, but accuracy is proving tricky, im also flighting it way too much.
one interesting new (sort of) delivery i found by accident is a scrambled seam zooter. if you scramble the seam and rip it hard then you only get the flight effects of back spin, and not the pitch effects. the zooter carries, then bounces, stays fairly low but has a really sharp up and down bounce and slows down off the pitch. with the seam scrambled it simply carries and then stays really low. much lower than my flipper!!
ive also improved massively in creating angles on the crease. i can bowl from anywhere on the crease (over and around the wicket) and control my line and length. this will prove useful in matches.
all in all an excellent day, and ive got my excitement back with my leg spin. i was starting to get very frustrated having hardly bowled at all for the past month, and then having a couple of incredibly poor net sessions when i have. indoor nets is tomorrow, and possibly the last week, so i want to turn up and do something special and try and get some attention from the league captains. the season is almost upon us.
il get some videos up later. i havent even downloaded and watched them myself yet. i think i got some excellent zooter and flippers videos though. i will see how they turn out.
i had a solo net practice this morning, the first in a while, and the first since my injury flared up. it was much needed, as ive been awful at indoor nets. not having any time to work on my action without distractions has meant that i wasnt improving or finding my pre-injury form.
anyway, i had a good 2 hour long session, bowled at full effort, and im pleased to report that my leg isnt hurting. it feels fragile, and at times it feels like it might start to hurt again any minute, but the important thing is that it doesnt!
ive managed to alter my action to a front-on one, as recommended by Liz Ward when she looked at video of my action to identify the potential causes of my injury. i pretty much run straight through now, with just a small twist at the hips. my leading foot plants hard, points down the wicket (i need to check the video to see how much, it feels dead straight, but it can be deceptive), and then i use my ARMS to generate all of my rotation...
the arms have been something i have always overlooked. on YouTube quite a few people have criticised my early videos saying that i dont use my front arm. it always worked for me, but obviously i was using my feet (stepping across myself) to generate the rotation, which i now see was not the correct way to do it. i now focus literally all of my attention on where i land my leading foot, and then what my leading arm does. by following a specific routine, and also timing my weight transfer from back to front, i have found some excellent consistency.
todays session was possibly the best ive ever had, definitely top 3. apart from the ever-present issue of a tendancy to stray legside, i was bowling excellently. ive regained completely control of the "round-the-loop" seam angles, i can bowl all the angles at will now from an almost-top-spinner (its still got about 15 degrees of side on it), right round to a full on zooter. my zooter was as good today as its ever been, and im hitting the stumps with it on a consistent basis. id gladly bowl it in a match situation.
i also did a little work on my flippers. they arent quite there, the off spinning flipper is working in terms of accuracy, but im not finding the seam with it, so its turning small. my back spinning flipper is there, but accuracy is proving tricky, im also flighting it way too much.
one interesting new (sort of) delivery i found by accident is a scrambled seam zooter. if you scramble the seam and rip it hard then you only get the flight effects of back spin, and not the pitch effects. the zooter carries, then bounces, stays fairly low but has a really sharp up and down bounce and slows down off the pitch. with the seam scrambled it simply carries and then stays really low. much lower than my flipper!!
ive also improved massively in creating angles on the crease. i can bowl from anywhere on the crease (over and around the wicket) and control my line and length. this will prove useful in matches.
all in all an excellent day, and ive got my excitement back with my leg spin. i was starting to get very frustrated having hardly bowled at all for the past month, and then having a couple of incredibly poor net sessions when i have. indoor nets is tomorrow, and possibly the last week, so i want to turn up and do something special and try and get some attention from the league captains. the season is almost upon us.
il get some videos up later. i havent even downloaded and watched them myself yet. i think i got some excellent zooter and flippers videos though. i will see how they turn out.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
Sounds good Jim, good to hear that you're forms returning. I'm still a little worried about my calves/foot situation, it seems that I've got ridiculously tight calf muscles and I constantly have to stretch them all the time other-wise if I do anything where I exert myself I end up with the heel pain. It definitely seems as though my running in the out-field this year is destined to be poor whereas I've always considered myslef to be in the top 3 fastest runners in any of the team set up I get to play in and generally a really enthusiastic and committed fielder, so at the minute I'm a bit gutted that I can't seem to resolve this heel pain situation fully.
Easter is upon us soon and I'll get to see how much this heel situation is going to impact on my bowling - the last few Easters has seen me putting in 4 hours a day bowling on some days even more. I'll have to see how it goes?
Sounds good Jim, good to hear that you're forms returning. I'm still a little worried about my calves/foot situation, it seems that I've got ridiculously tight calf muscles and I constantly have to stretch them all the time other-wise if I do anything where I exert myself I end up with the heel pain. It definitely seems as though my running in the out-field this year is destined to be poor whereas I've always considered myslef to be in the top 3 fastest runners in any of the team set up I get to play in and generally a really enthusiastic and committed fielder, so at the minute I'm a bit gutted that I can't seem to resolve this heel pain situation fully.
Easter is upon us soon and I'll get to see how much this heel situation is going to impact on my bowling - the last few Easters has seen me putting in 4 hours a day bowling on some days even more. I'll have to see how it goes?
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
do what im doing and become a specialist slip fielder lol. my catching has gotten excellent over the winter, it was already my strongest suit anyway. i dont like to commit to fielding that might injure me, and if i know im bowling i dont like to waste all my energy on running around in the field, so i tend to be fairly weak in the outfield. my best positions are closer such as point, extra cover, square leg, etc. but with my catching skills i reckon im now good enough to field at slip or gully. saves any running, just need to convince my captain!
the videos are all online. after all that it turns out im not much more front on than before! its amazing how much difference there is between mental perception of what your body is doing, and what your body is actually doing!! i feel like im fully front on, Danish Kaneria style. instead im doing exactly the same as i did before, but pointing my leading foot down the wicket lol. im definitely a little more chest on than i was previously though, but still not enough. its a better action, but still not where i want it in terms of reducing the strain on my lower leg.
anyway, heres the videos:
first up there are a handful of zooters (back spun sliders as some call them). note the scrambled seam variation and how it carries in flight, but then the seam doesnt grip, so it zips through super low.
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Zooter 1 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Zooter 2 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Zooter 3 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Zooter 4 (scrambled seam) (March 2010)
then heres a really inaccurate flipper that had a ton of out-swing on it and then turned in (but because it was outside leg, it actually did the opposite from a batsmans perspective. it swang in at the legs, then turned to legside)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Flipper (March 2010)
and my off spinning flipper. it didnt land on the seam, so its only turning small. note how well disguised it is now though! i had to look through all the videos 3 times before i could even find it. i thought it was a leg break that didnt turn until i looked really closely.
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Off Spin Flipper (March 2010)
and finally a few more leg breaks. the line is improving all the time. im still legside 70% of the time, but i turn it enough that it doesnt matter. when i pitch it on leg stump though is when it is most effective.
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Leg Break 1 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Leg Break 2 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Leg Break 3 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Leg Break 4 (March 2010)
ive got control of my overspin now, and had a few that dipped like crazy at the last minute. i already cause issues with bounce against batsmen, so i might be even more potent now!!
do what im doing and become a specialist slip fielder lol. my catching has gotten excellent over the winter, it was already my strongest suit anyway. i dont like to commit to fielding that might injure me, and if i know im bowling i dont like to waste all my energy on running around in the field, so i tend to be fairly weak in the outfield. my best positions are closer such as point, extra cover, square leg, etc. but with my catching skills i reckon im now good enough to field at slip or gully. saves any running, just need to convince my captain!
the videos are all online. after all that it turns out im not much more front on than before! its amazing how much difference there is between mental perception of what your body is doing, and what your body is actually doing!! i feel like im fully front on, Danish Kaneria style. instead im doing exactly the same as i did before, but pointing my leading foot down the wicket lol. im definitely a little more chest on than i was previously though, but still not enough. its a better action, but still not where i want it in terms of reducing the strain on my lower leg.
anyway, heres the videos:
first up there are a handful of zooters (back spun sliders as some call them). note the scrambled seam variation and how it carries in flight, but then the seam doesnt grip, so it zips through super low.
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Zooter 1 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Zooter 2 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Zooter 3 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Zooter 4 (scrambled seam) (March 2010)
then heres a really inaccurate flipper that had a ton of out-swing on it and then turned in (but because it was outside leg, it actually did the opposite from a batsmans perspective. it swang in at the legs, then turned to legside)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Flipper (March 2010)
and my off spinning flipper. it didnt land on the seam, so its only turning small. note how well disguised it is now though! i had to look through all the videos 3 times before i could even find it. i thought it was a leg break that didnt turn until i looked really closely.
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Off Spin Flipper (March 2010)
and finally a few more leg breaks. the line is improving all the time. im still legside 70% of the time, but i turn it enough that it doesnt matter. when i pitch it on leg stump though is when it is most effective.
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Leg Break 1 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Leg Break 2 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Leg Break 3 (March 2010)
YouTube - Leg Spin Bowling - Leg Break 4 (March 2010)
ive got control of my overspin now, and had a few that dipped like crazy at the last minute. i already cause issues with bounce against batsmen, so i might be even more potent now!!
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
Well done Jim. Some nice bowling there.
I was going down the nets once or twice a week and wasnt making much progress so I made a concious effort to go down every day and do more than an hour and I improved out of sight. I find that it still takes around 20 minutes of bowling before I really start to get it going again though.
I have purchased a camera with a slow motion setting so once I figure it out and when I get home before its dark I'll get it set up and post a few overs up on youtube and you guys can let me know what you think.
Ill be interested to see how my actual bowling looks from what I percieve it to be.
Well done Jim. Some nice bowling there.
I was going down the nets once or twice a week and wasnt making much progress so I made a concious effort to go down every day and do more than an hour and I improved out of sight. I find that it still takes around 20 minutes of bowling before I really start to get it going again though.
I have purchased a camera with a slow motion setting so once I figure it out and when I get home before its dark I'll get it set up and post a few overs up on youtube and you guys can let me know what you think.
Ill be interested to see how my actual bowling looks from what I percieve it to be.
Shahbaz
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
So, interestingly enough, I'm currently getting my action to be more side-on than it used to be, and it seems to be helping quite a bit as regards spinning the ball. I noticed a nice amount of drift today, and I seem to be getting about as accurate as I was with my earlier front-on action. I had taken a one-week break in between to go off and help at a wildlife rescue center, but fortunately that doesn't seem to have had much ill effect.
Something I noticed is that one of the balls I bowled, a normal leg-spinner, kept really low after bouncing at a good length, and ended up where the base of off-stump would be. I would guess that it was because it did not land on the seam, in which case it would be interesting to see if that kind of thing could be achieved consistently, as it looks like it may have a fair bit of potential as a pseudo-variation. Alternatively, a 'flying saucer' kind of ball, with the seam parallel to the pitch, may have a similar effect, though it could be hard to bowl.
So, interestingly enough, I'm currently getting my action to be more side-on than it used to be, and it seems to be helping quite a bit as regards spinning the ball. I noticed a nice amount of drift today, and I seem to be getting about as accurate as I was with my earlier front-on action. I had taken a one-week break in between to go off and help at a wildlife rescue center, but fortunately that doesn't seem to have had much ill effect.
Something I noticed is that one of the balls I bowled, a normal leg-spinner, kept really low after bouncing at a good length, and ended up where the base of off-stump would be. I would guess that it was because it did not land on the seam, in which case it would be interesting to see if that kind of thing could be achieved consistently, as it looks like it may have a fair bit of potential as a pseudo-variation. Alternatively, a 'flying saucer' kind of ball, with the seam parallel to the pitch, may have a similar effect, though it could be hard to bowl.
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)
had indoor nets again last night (theres one more session next week before the outdoor season begins), having bowled for 2 hours or so on Sunday. i was still aching from that, so didnt expect too much from myself.
i bowled pretty well, my new action is definitely way more consistent. and unlike before, if im struggling with wides its easy to reel it back in again, as the arms are doing all the work and are much easier to take control of. i bowled an average match performance i reckon, and my bowling didnt go off, i was still bowling well at the end. it was consistent and controlled, but not hugely aggressive. but at the same time, i wasnt bowling balls 6 feet wide or gifting lots of runs. theres definitely room for improvement against batsmen, but im almost there now. compared to last year its a night and day improvement.
also, my zooter is finally a genuinely match-worthy delivery. i can pretty much land it on demand now, and it had every batsman i used it against in trouble. they played for turn (which i now acheive on 95% of deliveries, albeit only about 15-20% turn big) off a ball that looked near enough identical to a leg break. and then it stayed low and straight on them. plenty of opportunities for LBW and bowled.
my batting methodology took a bit of a knock though. i batted against 2 proper leg spinners last night, both of whom were turning it miles every ball, but landing it short. it was easy to rock onto the back foot, but cutting a ball that is turning 2+ feet on you is hard! the only method then is to get to the pitch of the ball, which has its inherent dangers (stumping). i need to work on getting my feet more nimble, im way too heavy footed at present, and i need to work on this for my bowling as well. whenever they pitched it full on that "ideal" length that coaches teach, i swept them easily. i love the fuller ball, the harder ball to play is the really short one that you cant get to the pitch of (which would normally be a back foot shot).
had indoor nets again last night (theres one more session next week before the outdoor season begins), having bowled for 2 hours or so on Sunday. i was still aching from that, so didnt expect too much from myself.
i bowled pretty well, my new action is definitely way more consistent. and unlike before, if im struggling with wides its easy to reel it back in again, as the arms are doing all the work and are much easier to take control of. i bowled an average match performance i reckon, and my bowling didnt go off, i was still bowling well at the end. it was consistent and controlled, but not hugely aggressive. but at the same time, i wasnt bowling balls 6 feet wide or gifting lots of runs. theres definitely room for improvement against batsmen, but im almost there now. compared to last year its a night and day improvement.
also, my zooter is finally a genuinely match-worthy delivery. i can pretty much land it on demand now, and it had every batsman i used it against in trouble. they played for turn (which i now acheive on 95% of deliveries, albeit only about 15-20% turn big) off a ball that looked near enough identical to a leg break. and then it stayed low and straight on them. plenty of opportunities for LBW and bowled.
my batting methodology took a bit of a knock though. i batted against 2 proper leg spinners last night, both of whom were turning it miles every ball, but landing it short. it was easy to rock onto the back foot, but cutting a ball that is turning 2+ feet on you is hard! the only method then is to get to the pitch of the ball, which has its inherent dangers (stumping). i need to work on getting my feet more nimble, im way too heavy footed at present, and i need to work on this for my bowling as well. whenever they pitched it full on that "ideal" length that coaches teach, i swept them easily. i love the fuller ball, the harder ball to play is the really short one that you cant get to the pitch of (which would normally be a back foot shot).
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