Young Up & Comers

[Boris]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Wade in all forms please when Haddin retires, kid's a gun.Right now i like the idea of Ronchi in 20 20.Couldnt understand why he wasnt ahead of Haddin in 20 20.I know i might be slaughted for saying this but right now Paine is a good back up keeper and nothing more.I think he does have potential and if he works hard on his game the sky is the limit but no way would Paine be ahead of Haddin whether it be 50 overs or test matches.Australia team after 2013 should look more or so like this:
1.Hughes
2.Khawaja
3.Watson
4.Clarke
5.Mitch Marsh (will play test cricket before he's 22 bookmark it.)
6.Steve SMith( or ofcourse Ferguson at 6)
7. Wade
8.M.Johnson
9.Hazzlewood( Will be about 23 by then, even at the tender age of 19 the kid looks ready or atleast close to ready)
10.Copeland( George/Siddle/Hilfy/Ben ''Cutting throw batting line ups'', could be any of them
11.Boyce( Jon holland ,hey Hauritz may still be the first choice spinner by then)

other contenders are: Hill,White,Marsh( shaun ofcourse), Paine ( GOOD BACKUP),North( might still be in the team on his last leg .Selectors seem to love him.And a few others who are yet to make their domestic debut .
Future looks bright if selectors are up for it and those kids dont fall by the way side.
This is my say for the day.

I do think Hauritz will probably be first choice spinner then. I don't see the bowling attack changing that much from what it is now by then unless one of them really lose form in a big way. They seem pretty set for some long careers now, more a question of which one is fit for when. I don't think both the 9 and 10 positions you have described there will both be in the team, one of the bowlers now will be a senior bowler by then and a regular (Bollinger is my prediction).

I like Clarke better at 3 than 4 just to point out there. I think he will be there for quite a while after Ponting retires.

Mitch Marsh is 50/50 for me right now in a prediction situation. I can see him becoming more an ODI specialist, but probably will get a go in a Test if he's lucky enough to find himself a spot.

Just on Smith there, I don't like his batting or bowling at the moment. By 2013 he will definitely either prove his worth or fall back to earth. By then it should be a pretty straightforward choice as to whether he is worth it or not.

It's very hard to predict this far ahead though. Just for fun look back a couple of years worth of threads and you will see comments like 'Stuart Clark will never have any effect', or 'Cameron White will never play cricket for Australia'. They are actual quotes from this site

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

I do think Hauritz will probably be first choice spinner then. I don't see the bowling attack changing that much from what it is now by then unless one of them really lose form in a big way. They seem pretty set for some long careers now, more a question of which one is fit for when. I don't think both the 9 and 10 positions you have described there will both be in the team, one of the bowlers now will be a senior bowler by then and a regular (Bollinger is my prediction).

I like Clarke better at 3 than 4 just to point out there. I think he will be there for quite a while after Ponting retires.

Mitch Marsh is 50/50 for me right now in a prediction situation. I can see him becoming more an ODI specialist, but probably will get a go in a Test if he's lucky enough to find himself a spot.

Just on Smith there, I don't like his batting or bowling at the moment. By 2013 he will definitely either prove his worth or fall back to earth. By then it should be a pretty straightforward choice as to whether he is worth it or not.

It's very hard to predict this far ahead though. Just for fun look back a couple of years worth of threads and you will see comments like 'Stuart Clark will never have any effect', or 'Cameron White will never play cricket for Australia'. They are actual quotes from this site

I'll be really surprised if we see Ronchi at international level ever again. CA selectors have shown their hand in terms of how they like to have a line-of-succession. If Haddin doesn't play t20 internationally, it will be Paine. Ronchi would have to have some unbelievable season in all forms to jump up to the top of the queue and he is around 28 so he is running out of time. Teribble waste of batting though in terms of the mickey mouse format. He is a really dangerous batsman.

Mitch Marsh is an interesting one. No-one really knows how someone can develop at the age of 18 and he has had a ridiculous amount of publicity in his fledgling career. The best thing about him is that he seems a very level-headed kid. Every interview I've heard with him he sounds like he carries the weight of expectation pretty well. Calm and self-assured without sounding arrogant at all.

I haven't watched u19's much in my lifetime but the two Aussie boys I've watched in that format and thought 'international player written all over them' is Mitch Marsh and Usman Khawaja. They both seemed so calm and unhurried at the crease. But you just can't predict how someone will develop.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Mitch Marsh already has the game( both mentally and talent wise)to play international cricket( He reminds me of Aamer interms of maturity as a player).Would be ideal though for him to first work his way towards a baggygreen (plenty of runs in domestic cricket) rather than just be given a baggy green on talent alone.I would be really surprise if Mitch Marsh isnt playing test cricket before his 22.Ofcourse some players start up with a bang and never develop their game.Seeing Mitch Marsh bat just has test cricket written all over him.Hughes, Khawaja, Smith have all impress me but Mitch Marsh seems to be on a level ahead of those guys, just my opinion.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Mitch Marsh already has the game( both mentally and talent wise)to play international cricket( He reminds me of Aamer interms of maturity as a player).Would be ideal though for him to first work his way towards a baggygreen (plenty of runs in domestic cricket) rather than just be given a baggy green on talent alone.I would be really surprise if Mitch Marsh isnt playing test cricket before his 22.Ofcourse some players start up with a bang and never develop their game.Seeing Mitch Marsh bat just has test cricket written all over him.Hughes, Khawaja, Smith have all impress me but Mitch Marsh seems to be on a level ahead of those guys, just my opinion.

He has a lot of time to play his shots. That is what I noticed about him, how he seemed to have more time than the other batsmen around him to play shots. That screams natural talent so it is really up to temperament and hard work from now on. Temperament is so, so important.

Damien Martyn was like that. He always looked like he had time to make a coffee, read the paper and then play his shot.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

He has a lot of time to play his shots. That is what I noticed about him, how he seemed to have more time than the other batsmen around him to play shots. That screams natural talent so it is really up to temperament and hard work from now on. Temperament is so, so important.

Damien Martyn was like that. He always looked like he had time to make a coffee, read the paper and then play his shot.

Yes Damien Martyn was pure class.There something about star players even before they've reach their maximum potential , its like a great fielder it just seems natural every time their go to field the ball it hits right in the middle of their hand.This Marsh kid got just about all the shots, great technique, presence at the crease thats amazing for a kid so young.Reckon this kid was just as good if not better than Ponting at a similiar age, ofcourse Ponting develop , showed great temperament, worked hard and now is a great batsman.Can Mitch Marsh do the same?I really believe he can.Would be great for cricket if kids with such rare potential ,go on the fulfil it.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Yes Damien Martyn was pure class.There something about star players even before they've reach their maximum potential , its like a great fielder it just seems natural every time their go to field the ball it hits right in the middle of their hand.This Marsh kid got just about all the shots, great technique, presence at the crease thats amazing for a kid so young.Reckon this kid was just as good if not better than Ponting at a similiar age, ofcourse Ponting develop , showed great temperament, worked hard and now is a great batsman.Can Mitch Marsh do the same?I really believe he can.Would be great for cricket if kids with such rare potential ,go on the fulfil it.

Punter's temperament developed playing cricket though. He's losing his eye and reflexes now but for a while he managed to harness his temper and his talent together and he was really brilliant.

If Mitchell Johnson had some of Punter's guts for a fight, he'd been an entirely different proposition as a player. This is why he makes a fool of himself when he tries to get fired up, it's just not part of his make-up. It's a shame as he has about as much talent any Aussie player I've seen, but temperamentally I don't think he is suited to international cricket.

I'm really hoping that Mitchell Marsh has a backbone of steel. He does have a real presence for someone so young.

 

[Boris]

Re: Young Up & Comers

One thing with M.Marsh is: will he concentrate on the longer format or not?

The money of T20 is hard to walk away from. You can see all the young batsman coming through have strike rates 60-70+ in even the 4 day game. There are few that are able to occupy the crease for a long time and really hamper down the opposition. That was one thing I had against Hughes, is that as an opener he would be around for 130 balls and then he was gone. In that time he would have scored a century, but after Katich is gone there's nobody at the other end to anchor an innings and stick around directing things for 250 balls. And it's not like both openers are always going to face out that amount of balls each innings.

Just another effect of Twenty20 unfortunately. Let's hope that M.Marsh chooses the right route, not just follow the cash.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

One thing with M.Marsh is: will he concentrate on the longer format or not?

The money of T20 is hard to walk away from. You can see all the young batsman coming through have strike rates 60-70+ in even the 4 day game. There are few that are able to occupy the crease for a long time and really hamper down the opposition. That was one thing I had against Hughes, is that as an opener he would be around for 130 balls and then he was gone. In that time he would have scored a century, but after Katich is gone there's nobody at the other end to anchor an innings and stick around directing things for 250 balls. And it's not like both openers are always going to face out that amount of balls each innings.

Just another effect of Twenty20 unfortunately. Let's hope that M.Marsh chooses the right route, not just follow the cash.

Khawaja's pretty good at occupying the crease, very good technique and has the appetite for batting long.So these are good signs.Agreed with your point about Hughes, i think he sometimes gets carried away and is abit 2 aggressive.Slashing at wide bowls early on in his innings.But one thing about this hughes kid is he knows his game quite well.And he'll learn the more he players and hence can only get better.I expect Marsh to play all forms of the game for Australia in the future.He's a very level headed bloke.Young players striking at around 60 in 4day game or 5 day game isn't necessarily a bad thing.Guys like Viv Richards , Sehwag, Petierson has done that effectively.Ever player is different, some batsmen are katish like others are more attacking. Its all about knowing your game and adapting to the conditions and the match situation.Marsh strikes me as a batsman who has those attributes already , still early days though.Plus the game has changed teams are now scoring at 3.5 per over, which is great for the game.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Boris, Marsh isn't even 19, I can't see him making up his mind over those sorts of things yet, unless he ends up fragile physically (he has had 2 ops already) and does it for the sake of his long-term career like Tait.

Why would he if he doesn't need to? The Aussies still consider test cricket the peak of cricket skill, even the younger ones, look at Warner.

I agree about Hughes I don't really like watching him bat, I think he has a lot of talent, but he is just too unorthodox technique-wise to me and all that playing and missing does my head in. It feels like watching a tail-ender with a good eye.

And, lethal, Khawaja is encouraging in that he is prepared to bore for Aus. We need more Katiches coming on.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Boris, Marsh isn't even 19, I can't see him making up his mind over those sorts of things yet, unless he ends up fragile physically (he has had 2 ops already) and does it for the sake of his long-term career like Tait.

Why would he if he doesn't need to? The Aussies still consider test cricket the peak of cricket skill, even the younger ones, look at Warner.

I agree about Hughes I don't really like watching him bat, I think he has a lot of talent, but he is just too unorthodox technique-wise to me and all that playing and missing does my head in. It feels like watching a tail-ender with a good eye.

And, lethal, Khawaja is encouraging in that he is prepared to bore for Aus. We need more Katiches coming on.

Not many Katiches ,are there?Yes Hughes gets you at the edge of your sit in many ways than one in that you feel his either gonna hit a four or get out next ball.Truth is his young and wants to stamp his authority( overly confident at times).Does't lack confidence at all.His a quick learner though and if persisted with when he gets another opportunity at the highest level will see a more measured approach together with the aggressive intent he already possesses.

 

[Boris]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Katich isn't even the most consistent slow batsman either... I've seen him score pretty quickly when he wants to and the bowling isn't that great. It's guys like Hussey that score at a S/R of 50 no matter what and bore the opponent into leaking runs to him.

I know scoring rates are lifting and such, but will we start seeing the day where one day's worth of cricket results in 300a.o. runs for one team, then 100/x in the next innings for the next team? More and more Tests are finishing within 4 or less days.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Katich isn't even the most consistent slow batsman either... I've seen him score pretty quickly when he wants to and the bowling isn't that great. It's guys like Hussey that score at a S/R of 50 no matter what and bore the opponent into leaking runs to him.

I know scoring rates are lifting and such, but will we start seeing the day where one day's worth of cricket results in 300a.o. runs for one team, then 100/x in the next innings for the next team? More and more Tests are finishing within 4 or less days.

One thing i've notice about the game now among many other things ofcourse is that captains don't really employ a foward short leg to pacers early in an innings as often as they use to in the times of Ambrose , Wasim etc.

 

[Boris]

Re: Young Up & Comers

One thing i've notice about the game now among many other things ofcourse is that captains don't really employ a foward short leg to pacers early in an innings as often as they use to in the times of Ambrose , Wasim etc.

There are lots of different field strategies used nowadays as a result of the limited overs effect. Things like mid on and mid off were rarities unless a batsman was set, there were more slips used more often, leg slips and gullies, the close in fielders as you said, and the use of the third man.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Katich can get off to real flyers sometimes in test cricket and he's fine as a t20 batsman for NSW.

I've always thought he should have been our first pick 20/20 captain once Punter chucked it in.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Didn't Katish bat 5 or 6 before he was first dropped for the aussie team?I think he did but can't remember.Just looking at him he looks more a top order batsman than a 5 or 6 to me.Ofcourse he bats at 3 for NSW.Just shows you the importants of batting a player in the correct position when selecting them for the national team.Some players however got the game to bat in any position.Not saying if Katish was to bat at 5 again he wouldn't have a fair go at it, cause i feel he has improve as a batter.Which brings me to my next point if Hughes or Klinger were to be selected and the only position available was at 6 would those guys have the game to bat there.Both guys usually bat at 1 and 3 respectively for their state teams.I think Hughes might go ok Klinger am not to sure about.There aint many players out there(out of the national team) who would fill u with confidence batting at 6.Both Hussey's is the best option by a mile in my opinion.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Didn't Katish bat 5 or 6 before he was first dropped for the aussie team?I think he did but can't remember.Just looking at him he looks more a top order batsman than a 5 or 6 to me.Ofcourse he bats at 3 for NSW.Just shows you the importants of batting a player in the correct position when selecting them for the national team.Some players however got the game to bat in any position.Not saying if Katish was to bat at 5 again he wouldn't have a fair go at it, cause i feel he has improve as a batter.Which brings me to my next point if Hughes or Klinger were to be selected and the only position available was at 6 would those guys have the game to bat there.Both guys usually bat at 1 and 3 respectively for their state teams.I think Hughes might go ok Klinger am not to sure about.There aint many players out there(out of the national team) who would fill u with confidence batting at 6.Both Hussey's is the best option by a mile in my opinion.

Hughes might go ok, but he looks like he'd be crap against spin with his lack of formal technique. I might be wrong though.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Hughes might go ok, but he looks like he'd be crap against spin with his lack of formal technique. I might be wrong though.

I differ from you in that i actually believe hughes is a very good player of spin.He's very strong square of the wicket( also love the way he plays the late cut) .He did get out to Paul Harris twice in the 3rd test of the South African series but he scored quite a few runs against him.Its unlikely though that he''ll bat at 6 for australia when or if he plays again.Its a shame though that a kid with so much potential can't get into a team with : a make shift opener who is an all rounder and has a fragile body and doesn't know how to convert 50's into 100.A number 6 who scored runs only when he passes 20 and he seldom passes 20.A declining number 5 batter who is more tentative at the crease than he ever has been.A batting order with so many issues can't be expected 2 deliver the goods consistently, i foresee many batting colapse this ashes series ( assuming ofcourse that the line up stays as is).There is a saying if it aint broke don't fix it, so u would think that the opposite would apply in that this batting line up is completely broken and selectors will be making changes in order to try to fix things.Its fine leaving youth by the way side if they haven't showed enough at domestic level, but when a young guy pushes his case as much as Hughes and khawaja to a lesser extent is doing , what is Hughes doing on the ''side lines''?

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

I differ from you in that i actually believe hughes is a very good player of spin.He's very strong square of the wicket( also love the way he plays the late cut) .He did get out to Paul Harris twice in the 3rd test of the South African series but he scored quite a few runs against him.Its unlikely though that he''ll bat at 6 for australia when or if he plays again.Its a shame though that a kid with so much potential can't get into a team with : a make shift opener who is an all rounder and has a fragile body and doesn't know how to convert 50's into 100.A number 6 who scored runs only when he passes 20 and he seldom passes 20.A declining number 5 batter who is more tentative at the crease than he ever has been.A batting order with so many issues can't be expected 2 deliver the goods consistently, i foresee many batting colapse this ashes series ( assuming ofcourse that the line up stays as is).There is a saying if it aint broke don't fix it, so u would think that the opposite would apply in that this batting line up is completely broken and selectors will be making changes in order to try to fix things.Its fine leaving youth by the way side if they haven't showed enough at domestic level, but when a young guy pushes his case as much as Hughes and khawaja to a lesser extent is doing , what is Hughes doing on the ''side lines''?

I'm not sure that playing Paul Harris easily counts as being good against spin, MJ played him easily as well.

I see Greg Chappell has entered the selectors lists. I hope he is keen on seeing some youth in the test team. And sooner rather than later. He can be prickly so might make the selectors rethink their current positions if he is forceful enough. Then again, he might think that they are doing everything right.

But he is going to be the 'liaison officer' for the selectors between the states and the national teams. Having been with the youth teams he must have firm ideas on who is up to international cricket.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Thats a good move as i have faith in Greg Chappel.He'll certainly wont think the selectors are right with this current team.The result speak for it self.Yes the sooner the selectors realise we cant close the door from youth the better we will be.Again i must emphasize u dont pick youth for the sake of it but if a guy is young and is good enough which both Khawaja and hughes are they need 2 be picked when the current batters in the line up aint doing their job.If i put up performances at my work place as North has put batting at 6 i would be fired.what i hate more is when Hilditch tries to justify North's pick by saying he provides a useful bowling option, all rounder.This isn't odi's .Your 4 best bowlers should be good enough so as not 2 relyon a part time.Watson is already an all rounder and he deserve his pick as his batting is good enough.So why do we need North bowling option?You pick your best 6 batters ur best wicket keeper batsman and ur best 4 bowlers.If u got an all rounder of quality then sure pick him.But i havent seen nothing to suggest North is quality.North out Hughes in- in india .Hussey out Khawaja in -after the ashes.Think that will be what Chappel will be saying.Cause its obvious what changes are needed to be made and who are the guys next in line.

This is my say for the day

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Thats a good move as i have faith in Greg Chappel.He'll certainly wont think the selectors are right with this current team.The result speak for it self.Yes the sooner the selectors realise we cant close the door from youth the better we will be.Again i must emphasize u dont pick youth for the sake of it but if a guy is young and is good enough which both Khawaja and hughes are they need 2 be picked when the current batters in the line up aint doing their job.If i put up performances at my work place as North has put batting at 6 i would be fired.what i hate more is when Hilditch tries to justify North's pick by saying he provides a useful bowling option, all rounder.This isn't odi's .Your 4 best bowlers should be good enough so as not 2 relyon a part time.Watson is already an all rounder and he deserve his pick as his batting is good enough.So why do we need North bowling option?You pick your best 6 batters ur best wicket keeper batsman and ur best 4 bowlers.If u got an all rounder of quality then sure pick him.But i havent seen nothing to suggest North is quality.North out Hughes in- in india .Hussey out Khawaja in -after the ashes.Think that will be what Chappel will be saying.Cause its obvious what changes are needed to be made and who are the guys next in line.

This is my say for the day

How many useful bowling options do they need?

Cricket is a funny sport, isn't it? They don't appear to want to even rotate the batsmen for series unless they are injured. It's just silly. I think this current selector's panel is worried about giving new players too much of a go in case they outplay the older ones and upset the applecart in terms of 'team stability'.