Young Up & Comers

[Boris]

Young Up & Comers

This is my third edition of this thread.

I'm competent at keeping track of youngsters from Queensland, but I'm not able to keep track of all the U19 games and youngsters in the first XIs of all the states, and I'm sure everyone else is in the same boat.

So a little educational exercise about the youngsters everywhere to see if in a couple of years we can look back at it and see if we were right.

I'm tipping Cameron Boyce for some good things. 21 year old Qld leg spinner, described by Ashley Mallet as the best spinner in Australia not in first-class cricket. He has since made his debut and in 4 innings so far he has 8 wickets at 38.25, with a 6fa in there as well. I watched him bowl in both of those matches and he bowled quite well, got some good drift and rip and he seemed like he was bowling to a plan, so good signs.

 

[Kram81]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Yeah managed to get a decent a look at him in the Sheild final, looks to have a bit of potential.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Yeah managed to get a decent a look at him in the Sheild final, looks to have a bit of potential.

I hadn't heard of him. I hope he is nurtured by the Bulls. I don't trust state teams and the way they treat young spin bowlers.

 

[Boris]

Re: Young Up & Comers

I hadn't heard of him. I hope he is nurtured by the Bulls. I don't trust state teams and the way they treat young spin bowlers.

He's only played a couple, so not hard to miss. What I like best about him is the way he plans and thinks ahead, doesn't just bowl cricket balls.

The Bulls are alright with spin bowlers, but it's rare for a good one to actually come through. Pace bowlers are what comes from Queensland, Brisbane is good for pacemen, and the further north you go the better it gets. Even your artificial pitches help pacemen.

The main problem for him is being able to hold his spot. The Bulls have some quality bowling coming through next season, and I don't think he will be in the starting XI. Hauritz moved from Queensland for that reason, he was pushed out by the fast bowlers and pitches that didn't spin, one bad game and you were out.

Hope for the best.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Young Up & Comers

He's only played a couple, so not hard to miss. What I like best about him is the way he plans and thinks ahead, doesn't just bowl cricket balls.

The Bulls are alright with spin bowlers, but it's rare for a good one to actually come through. Pace bowlers are what comes from Queensland, Brisbane is good for pacemen, and the further north you go the better it gets. Even your artificial pitches help pacemen.

The main problem for him is being able to hold his spot. The Bulls have some quality bowling coming through next season, and I don't think he will be in the starting XI. Hauritz moved from Queensland for that reason, he was pushed out by the fast bowlers and pitches that didn't spin, one bad game and you were out.

Hope for the best.

Boyce had a ripping tournament for Queensland at the Open Mens Indoor Cricket carnival that finished last week. Was named in the All-Australian squad and also the train-on squad for some potential international games so he has certainly continued his form from the last Shield season on through the winter.

As for WA, potential young guns for us are Nathan Coulter-Nile, Josh Mangan and also Mitchell Marsh. All three were stand-out performers last season amongst the younger members of the WA squad.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Boyce had a ripping tournament for Queensland at the Open Mens Indoor Cricket carnival that finished last week. Was named in the All-Australian squad and also the train-on squad for some potential international games so he has certainly continued his form from the last Shield season on through the winter.

As for WA, potential young guns for us are Nathan Coulter-Nile, Josh Mangan and also Mitchell Marsh. All three were stand-out performers last season amongst the younger members of the WA squad.

Josh Mangan has been dropped from the squad, hasn't he? I'm sure he has. Edit: http://www.waca.com.au/news/detail.asp?ID=1837

He has. - NB - I still laugh when I see that Voges has an Aus contract. There's something ludicrously wrong somewhere.

Some chance to develop young spin bowlers get in state cricket. 4 games in two years and out on your ear.

Coulter-Nile looks promising and of course, the Mitchmeister, if he can hold it together at first class level, looks more than promising. I don't like how easily he gets injured though. He was a later starter last year due to surgery and he didn't bowl at all apart from one Big Bash match.

And he's injured again. These fragile Marsh boys. It's not good.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Josh Mangan has been dropped from the squad, hasn't he? I'm sure he has. Edit: WACA

He has. - NB - I still laugh when I see that Voges has an Aus contract. There's something ludicrously wrong somewhere.

Some chance to develop young spin bowlers get in state cricket. 4 games in two years and out on your ear.

Coulter-Nile looks promising and of course, the Mitchmeister, if he can hold it together at first class level, looks more than promising. I don't like how easily he gets injured though. He was a later starter last year due to surgery and he didn't bowl at all apart from one Big Bash match.

And he's injured again. These fragile Marsh boys. It's not good.

Wasn't aware he was cut from the squad. Fairly harsh in my opinion, wasn't given a heap of time to develop enough and spent most of time here taking wickets in WACA A Grade. He played a few first-class matches in front of Heal late last season but that looks like it wasn't enough to save him.

 

[Boris]

Re: Young Up & Comers

What about the tall Peter George? Do you guys think he's one for the future?

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Josh Hazzlewood is another one.Got Potential to be a top fast bowler.Mitch Marsh also got potentail to be a top top alll rounder if his body can hold up.I reckon this kid will play for australia before his 22.Seems such a mature cricketer for his age.Hazzlewood, Hughes , Smith and Marsh got potential to be stars.Lets hope they do fulfil their potential.Mathew Wade( wicket keeper) is another one aussie selectors will be keeping an eye out for.James Pattinson (fast bowler), Ben Cutting, Copeland are all fast bowlers with great potential.Australia will dominate cricket again but thats not before players like these guys get into the side and establish themselves.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Josh Hazzlewood is another one.Got Potential to be a top fast bowler.Mitch Marsh also got potentail to be a top top alll rounder if his body can hold up.I reckon this kid will play for australia before his 22.Seems such a mature cricketer for his age.Hazzlewood, Hughes , Smith and Marsh got potential to be stars.Lets hope they do fulfil their potential.Mathew Wade( wicket keeper) is another one aussie selectors will be keeping an eye out for.James Pattinson (fast bowler), Ben Cutting, Copeland are all fast bowlers with great potential.Australia will dominate cricket again but thats not before players like these guys get into the side and establish themselves.

Not too many spin bowlers coming through, is there? All the hopes are centered on Smith. Lucky that he looks as though he has a skin like a rhino.

I liked the look of Luke Doran in the U19's, he seemed to bowl with a lot of control, I think he's picked up a rookie contract, but he's still a real baby.

 

[Boris]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Spinning hopes are one Smith, Boyce, Dorran and one other a bit older I forget the name of.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Spinning hopes are one Smith, Boyce, Dorran and one other a bit older I forget the name of.

Is it Jon holland?Jon Holland seem to be another with lots of potential.From what i've seen Boyce and Doran seem to be the ones with the most potential.Boyce will be Australia's long term spinner in my opinion.Steve Smith does have potential as well, i would like to see him work on his leg break abit more he turns it but not consistenly enough.He has amazing control for a 21 year old leggie though.Steve Smith and Mitch Marsh got potential to be top class all rounders, they're still in the infancy of their career so nothing is certain.

 

[Boris]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Is it Jon holland?Jon Holland seem to be another with lots of potential.From what i've seen Boyce and Doran seem to be the ones with the most potential.Boyce will be Australia's long term spinner in my opinion.Steve Smith does have potential as well, i would like to see him work on his leg break abit more he turns it but not consistenly enough.He has amazing control for a 21 year old leggie though.Steve Smith and Mitch Marsh got potential to be top class all rounders, they're still in the infancy of their career so nothing is certain.

That's the one, Holland I think will be more towards the one day sides I think, but he's still not all that bad.

Smith I would like to see another year playing domestically. At the moment he's kind of like White was when he was young, you have no idea whether he's a bowler or a batsman. White was originally pipped as 'the next Warne', and when you look back on it now you see how ludicrous those statements were.

It will take some time to work out whether Smith is a batting all rounder, bowling arounder, pure bowler or pure batsman, and trust me it does matter. I don't want to put him in the number 6 batting spot only to discover a year down the track he can't bat at all and the form he had was a one off thing. Then if Hauritz is also in the team, which spinner do you keep? It just creates problems.

I'd rather see Smith wait out a bit longer before he's chucked into a place that doesn't suit him.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

That's the one, Holland I think will be more towards the one day sides I think, but he's still not all that bad.

Smith I would like to see another year playing domestically. At the moment he's kind of like White was when he was young, you have no idea whether he's a bowler or a batsman. White was originally pipped as 'the next Warne', and when you look back on it now you see how ludicrous those statements were.

It will take some time to work out whether Smith is a batting all rounder, bowling arounder, pure bowler or pure batsman, and trust me it does matter. I don't want to put him in the number 6 batting spot only to discover a year down the track he can't bat at all and the form he had was a one off thing. Then if Hauritz is also in the team, which spinner do you keep? It just creates problems.

I'd rather see Smith wait out a bit longer before he's chucked into a place that doesn't suit him.

-------------------------------------------------
Smith is certainly a batsman first and foremost( an absolute gun) and a talented spinner after.There shouldn't be no doubts about Smith's batting ability.His spin is very much a work in progress.I wouldnt have Smith in my playing 11 just yet cause his bowling isnt good enough just yet and if his played as a batsman his bowling may fall by the way side.The experience of being around the squad and working with Warne will do him wonders.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

That's the one, Holland I think will be more towards the one day sides I think, but he's still not all that bad.

Smith I would like to see another year playing domestically. At the moment he's kind of like White was when he was young, you have no idea whether he's a bowler or a batsman. White was originally pipped as 'the next Warne', and when you look back on it now you see how ludicrous those statements were.

It will take some time to work out whether Smith is a batting all rounder, bowling arounder, pure bowler or pure batsman, and trust me it does matter. I don't want to put him in the number 6 batting spot only to discover a year down the track he can't bat at all and the form he had was a one off thing. Then if Hauritz is also in the team, which spinner do you keep? It just creates problems.

I'd rather see Smith wait out a bit longer before he's chucked into a place that doesn't suit him.

Trouble with Smith is that his batting is unorthodox to put it mildly. He can play very nice technically correct shots, good driver of the ball and all that but he farts around a lot at the crease and plays some real WTF shots so it's hardly surprising that no-one really knows if he is a proper batsmen yet. Got a fantastic eye though, that's for sure.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Smith I would like to see another year playing domestically. At the moment he's kind of like White was when he was young, you have no idea whether he's a bowler or a batsman. White was originally pipped as 'the next Warne', and when you look back on it now you see how ludicrous those statements were.

It will take some time to work out whether Smith is a batting all rounder, bowling arounder, pure bowler or pure batsman, and trust me it does matter. I don't want to put him in the number 6 batting spot only to discover a year down the track he can't bat at all and the form he had was a one off thing. .

I'd rather see Smith wait out a bit longer before he's chucked into a place that doesn't suit him.

If he has scored one ton or even 2, I might think it was a one off, but four in a season? I'll be extremely surprised if he doesn't get more tons at Sheffield level next year. I reckon he'll get at least 2 if he is in the NSW first team. He seems to be the sort of player who can really demoralise the opposing attack when he gets going.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Trouble with Smith is that his batting is unorthodox to put it mildly. He can play very nice technically correct shots, good driver of the ball and all that but he farts around a lot at the crease and plays some real WTF shots so it's hardly surprising that no-one really knows if he is a proper batsmen yet. Got a fantastic eye though, that's for sure.

Yea agreed with you there,wouldn't that also apply to Hughes?Iwould also add that smith is a bit more tecnical than Hughes.
Callum Ferguson is another one that i believe has massive potential.Hopefully Hussey retires after the ashes and i would like to see either Khawaja or Ferguson in his place another option ofcourse is drop Watto down the order and have Hughes opening.Ferguson might not have domestic first class stats to back him up but neither did Clarke when he was first selected.Ferguson just seem to have something ''special'' about him (eg. great temperament, has alot of time to play his shots).Michael Hill(batsman) is another up and comer trouble is victory hardly plays him.When Haddin quits it'll be about Wade vs Paine for keeping duties.I know Paine seems to be plenty people's favourite on here but in the next few years i reckon Wade would have had him covered by then.Wade certainly has the X FACTOR about him.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Yea agreed with you there,wouldn't that also apply to Hughes?Iwould also add that smith is a bit more tecnical than Hughes.
Callum Ferguson is another one that i believe has massive potential.Hopefully Hussey retires after the ashes and i would like to see either Khawaja or Ferguson in his place another option ofcourse is drop Watto down the order and have Hughes opening.Ferguson might not have domestic first class stats to back him up but neither did Clarke when he was first selected.Ferguson just seem to have something ''special'' about him (eg. great temperament, has alot of time to play his shots).Michael Hill(batsman) is another up and comer trouble is victory hardly plays him.When Haddin quits it'll be about Wade vs Paine for keeping duties.I know Paine seems to be plenty people's favourite on here but in the next few years i reckon Wade would have had him covered by then.Wade certainly has the X FACTOR about him.

Considering that Haddin has been pretty lousy with the bat in 20/20 (he's played a lot of matches but has a crap sr), they should bring in Ronchi for the t20's. Especially as they obviously don't choose Haddin for his keeping.

Ronchi was just about the Warriors best bat last year. The only time he played ODI's for Aus he batted very well. Shame he fell out of favour and form a couple of years back, that set him right back in the pecking order. I'm not sure his keeping is up to the other formats though.

I haven't seen Wade keep or bat unfortunately, but have heard good things about him and Hartley.

 

[Boris]

Re: Young Up & Comers

If he has scored one ton or even 2, I might think it was a one off, but four in a season? I'll be extremely surprised if he doesn't get more tons at Sheffield level next year. I reckon he'll get at least 2 if he is in the NSW first team. He seems to be the sort of player who can really demoralise the opposing attack when he gets going.

I see your point there, but then again how many batsmen in the past have had a brilliant first season until the opposing attacks have worked them out and then they are average at best for a couple of years?

In Tests I'm all for picking young inexperienced batsman (just not inexperienced bowlers), but this situation I think it's is a little different. If he has an even half decent next season then he's in my side, but at the moment he's not even in my fully fit Ashes squad at the moment.

Yea agreed with you there,wouldn't that also apply to Hughes?Iwould also add that smith is a bit more tecnical than Hughes.
Callum Ferguson is another one that i believe has massive potential.Hopefully Hussey retires after the ashes and i would like to see either Khawaja or Ferguson in his place another option ofcourse is drop Watto down the order and have Hughes opening.Ferguson might not have domestic first class stats to back him up but neither did Clarke when he was first selected.Ferguson just seem to have something ''special'' about him (eg. great temperament, has alot of time to play his shots).Michael Hill(batsman) is another up and comer trouble is victory hardly plays him.When Haddin quits it'll be about Wade vs Paine for keeping duties.I know Paine seems to be plenty people's favourite on here but in the next few years i reckon Wade would have had him covered by then.Wade certainly has the X FACTOR about him.

I think Wade will come out on top in one or two years time as well once Haddin retires. I don't much really like Paine, especially for Tests, but don't mind him for ODIs (if they are even around then). I'm not sure where his normally explosive run-a-ball batting has gone, but I hope he finds it again soon.

Then again there's another side of me saying not to put him in any sides because the team already has enough pretty boys...

Considering that Haddin has been pretty lousy with the bat in 20/20 (he's played a lot of matches but has a crap sr), they should bring in Ronchi for the t20's. Especially as they obviously don't choose Haddin for his keeping.

Ronchi was just about the Warriors best bat last year. The only time he played ODI's for Aus he batted very well. Shame he fell out of favour and form a couple of years back, that set him right back in the pecking order. I'm not sure his keeping is up to the other formats though.

I haven't seen Wade keep or bat unfortunately, but have heard good things about him and Hartley.

Like the idea of Ronchi. I am one to have the same keeper for every format, little bit of a traditionalist (surely ODIs fall into a 'traditional' category by now) in the way Australia has always had the same keeper for all formats, but this day and age I think T20: Ronchi, ODI: Paine, Test: Haddin.

Then in a couple of years Wade can take Haddin's spot for Tests.

Haven't seen Wade bat much either, but have definitely seen Hartley bat a number of times. He used to be worse than a number 11 when he first started, but has improved to be near enough to Queensland's best batsman last season in both the SS and FRC. His four day form has been very good, just wish he was a bit younger because he'd definitely be above Paine and Wade if that was the case. Queensland's top order is pretty collapsible at the moment and he pretty much plays the roll of game saviour every second match and brings them back into contention. Plus at the moment he and Manou are fighting for the man with the best glovework, they are both pretty good in that department, better than any of the youngsters can reproduce.

 

[lethalhughes]

Re: Young Up & Comers

Wade in all forms please when Haddin retires, kid's a gun.Right now i like the idea of Ronchi in 20 20.Couldnt understand why he wasnt ahead of Haddin in 20 20.I know i might be slaughted for saying this but right now Paine is a good back up keeper and nothing more.I think he does have potential and if he works hard on his game the sky is the limit but no way would Paine be ahead of Haddin whether it be 50 overs or test matches.Australia team after 2013 should look more or so like this:
1.Hughes
2.Khawaja
3.Watson
4.Clarke
5.Mitch Marsh (will play test cricket before he's 22 bookmark it.)
6.Steve SMith( or ofcourse Ferguson at 6)
7. Wade
8.M.Johnson
9.Hazzlewood( Will be about 23 by then, even at the tender age of 19 the kid looks ready or atleast close to ready)
10.Copeland( George/Siddle/Hilfy/Ben ''Cutting throw batting line ups'', could be any of them
11.Boyce( Jon holland ,hey Hauritz may still be the first choice spinner by then)

other contenders are: Hill,White,Marsh( shaun ofcourse), Paine ( GOOD BACKUP),North( might still be in the team on his last leg .Selectors seem to love him.And a few others who are yet to make their domestic debut .
Future looks bright if selectors are up for it and those kids dont fall by the way side.
This is my say for the day.