Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Top Contributors
The Wrong wrong un I've returned to after not bowling it for ages and it's a decent ball, but you have to have a decent Wrong Un in the first place and the ability to flip the ball with the fingers. I need a good camera too record all these releases at bowling speed.
 
Jim2109 said:
Who is the author of the Twirlymen book, and what was his cricket discipline? I ask because if he was a batsman then his Flipper idea makes perfect sense (because he would have seen it from the wrong perspective), and if he wasn't a leg spinner then I'd say it still makes sense. If he was a leggie though then I'd suggest either his own flipper had a quirky action, or he just didn't understand the physics.

Sometimes Flippers do jag in from off, sometimes they do the opposite. Generally speaking, and we have all experienced it, a Flipper will swing/drift quite big toward the leg side. And given that it is a straight delivery, that drift/swing will result in the ball ending up coming off the pitch in towards the batsman, giving the impression of "turn". It is less common, for me at least, for a Flipper to turn the other way. The detail is all in the wrist though, you can easily present a Flipper with the seam ever so slightly either side of straight to create those subtleties.

A few of my team mates think I have a Googly at the moment, because I can make a leg break turn the wrong way. I wish I could do it on purpose, but unfortunately its one of those deliveries that surprises everyone, myself included. I have toyed with various theories, 2 of which I think are correct on different occasions. There is the "cutter" theory, whereby I release the ball wrongly and end up dragging my fingers behind it instead of ripping it cleanly (it basically slips out the front of the hand, some might say it "slides" out lol). They drag down it in such a way that it imparts a bit of off spin on the ball, and that results in a very small amount of deviation off the pitch, turning back in to the batsman. Then there is another type of ball, which happens especially in wet conditions (and may be the phenomenom that Philpott refers to in his book), where you bowl a perfect leg break, but for some reason it turns the wrong way by a very small amount. Having observed this now for the entire time I have been bowling, and especially in wet nets, I realised what was happening whilst watching Graeme Swann bowl the other day for Notts. He was getting huge drift on a few deliveries (and being an offie the ball was therefore moving away from the bat), and one ball didn't grip, and to the untrained eye looked like he had just bowled a doosra. It really did "turn" quite a lot away from the bat! What you were actually seeing was very late drift. If you rip the ball hard then you'll get the late drift on the ball that is so valuable to a spinner, and when you look at it quickly without analysing it you would think that the ball has just turned the wrong way. When in fact it has simply drifted late, not gripped the pitch (hence it happens more in wet conditions), and the drift has resulted in its path continuing in towards the batsman.

So there you go, Flippers that "turn", leg breaks that turn the wrong way, and we thought we had a grasp on this whole leg spin art!!!

As for the off-spinning flipper, its by far the easiest of the flippers to bowl in my opinion. Its just an off break with a slightly different grip, the backspinner is much harder, and the top spinner and wrong-wrong'un would be the 2 "impossible" deliveries, although the same would be said about Muralitharans action, so nothing is ever impossible. Just improbable.
Click to expand...

He is called Amol Rajan, and he's an amateur leg spinner just like us, a journalist by profession. He has some interesting ideas on flippers, most of which he has taken from Brian Wilkins the Bowlers Art which goes into them in incredibly deep detail. He doesn't really classify one singular flipper at all, but rather a family of them stemming from Grimmett's 6 flippers found illustrated in Wilkins book. I recommend reading both books immediately before we carry on this conversation! Because there is simply far too much for me to go into. Regarding that last part about drift I think you'll find the spin-swerve sections of both books of particular interest.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
The Wrong wrong un I've returned to after not bowling it for ages and it's a decent ball, but you have to have a decent Wrong Un in the first place and the ability to flip the ball with the fingers. I need a good camera too record all these releases at bowling speed.
Click to expand...

Has your Wilkin's arrived yet Dave? What an incredible book, its the most comprehensive manual on (advanced) spin I've ever read. Simply crammed with ideas, tactics, stories, skills and science. Everything you'd ever want to ask about really I even discovered that the resin Mailey used to use is in fact Rosin powder, the same stuff baseball pitchers use. I think the flipper chapter is going to be of particular interest to you...
 
GoldenArm said:
Has your Wilkin's arrived yet Dave? What an incredible book, its the most comprehensive manual on (advanced) spin I've ever read. Simply crammed with ideas, tactics, stories, skills and science. Everything you'd ever want to ask about really I even discovered that the resin Mailey used to use is in fact Rosin powder, the same stuff baseball pitchers use. I think the flipper chapter is going to be of particular interest to you...
Click to expand...

Is this the one you got for a tenner and the only left this side of the world was £50?
 
Very sad news about Terry Jenner. I thought the fact we hadn't heard much lately meant he must have been getting better, but obviously not. He will be a major loss to the art of spin bowling.

I played a midweek T20 match last night (reduced to 18 overs). We were at home so fielded first, but we only had 8 players to start with. It was agreed that 6 bowlers would get 3 overs each to give everyone a fair go. The 2 opening seamers got carted, one of them got a wicket 3rd ball clean bowled but it was all downhill from there. They had their opener in who looked a solid bat and was smashing some lovely shots for 4 and 6 all around the ground, with a solid looking left hander at the other end. They scored about 50 or 60 runs off the first 6 overs! I came on to bowl 8th over, and by then we had 9 players. I covered the most obvious places with the field, but there were always going to be gaps.

I was bowling at the leftie first up, and I really fancy my chances against left handers at the moment. I bowled over the wicket, with my intention being to push the ball across the batsman, close off his stance, and then for it to turn back/straight up on him. First ball was an absolute beauty, pitched on a perfect length, bang on middle stump. The batsman played for it coming across him, but it turned back and straightened and hit him plumb inline with middle stump. The umpire had no hesistation at all in giving LBW, and I got a wicket first ball for the 2nd game in a row! It was by far the highest quality wicket of the season as well.

The rest of the first over was a bit mixed. No extras, no really rank balls, but the opening batsman obviously fancied his chances and the over ended up going for 11. Not awful though, and by the end of the over I had adjusted the field to cover off all the problem areas. 2nd over was a vast improvement. Started off with I think 2 runs, then a couple of good dot balls. Then I landed another cherry to the new batsman in (right hander). It pitched on middle and leg with a bit of drift, he tried to cream it through mid-on but it turned back through the gate and took off stump 3/4 of the way up. Clean bowled :D So following 1 lucky LBW and a then a load of catches (mostly from rank full tosses) so far this season, I had 2 wickets, both of extremely high quality in 1 game. Things were looking up! The 2nd over only went for 5 runs, and at that stage we started to tighten up the runs a bit as they had been flying to begin with.

3rd over wasn't quite so good from an economy standpoint, but I didn't bowl at all badly. I was mostly bowling at the set batsman, who by now was past 50. He hit a couple of 4's through the gaps in the field, an extra 2 fielders would have cut off pretty much everything though. A few of the boundaries he hit were very uppish and scratchy, not particularly clean shots. He reverse swept me fine for a 4 on one shot. But there were a couple of balls where he almost got out and only just got bat on ball. It went for 13 in the end, and that was the end of my 3 overs.

3-0-29-2 were the final figures. In the context of the match they were excellent figures. Prior to that we had only got 1 wicket and nobody looked liked breaking the partnership. They were scoring at near on 10 an over before my spell, and with the wickets I took they slowed right down after and their middle order collapsed. In the end they scored 127-9, which was just over 7 runs per over. I went at nearly 10, but most of the bowlers at the end were bowling at rabbits and so they skewed the economy somewhat. Overall it was a quality spell, my best of the season by far, and much closer to what I know I am capable of. Would have just been nice to have those extra 2 fielders, one of whom showed up literally as I ended my spell!!

Our opening batsmen put on about 100 runs with the bat in no time at all, one retired on 80 after 12 overs! And we won the game easily with overs to spare and only 3 or 4 wickets down.

Hopefully I can build on yesterdays performance and improve. The accuracy and consistency is definitely getting a lot better, and I was really putting a lot of energy into the action. I didn't take pace off or reduce the energy at all, I was ripping the ball hard. The sun was really glaring in my eyes and I couldn't see that well, but I think maybe the fact I couldn't see and thus wasn't concentrating on where my feet were landing or anything might have helped me find my rhythm a lot better. All I focussed on was driving my leading arm, and driving my trailing leg and hips. And it worked fantastically.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
No, read a review somewhere and they didn't rate it and have put it on the back burner, do you reckon it's worth having? If so I'll put it back on the 'Ones to have list'.
Click to expand...

who ever said they didn't rate it has no idea what they're talking about. Its easily on a par with Philpott's book as one of the most important books ever written on spin bowling.
 
Hello all,
I've been reading through this forum quite a lot in the last few months, and I finally started playing last week. Despite the many tribulations, you've all inspired me to bowl leg spin. Having done so for one week I can say that my bowling is mostly awful, but the half dozen that come out right really make it worth it. I've been concentrating on just getting the ball to turn for the moment and I'll work on accuracy and consistency later. So all in all, so far it's been quite rewarding.

I've joined a club out here in California, and some of the bowlers there (a couple of whom are leg spinners) said that it's best to progress from seam up fast-medium to finger spin and then, once that's good enough, move on to wrist spin. I don't remember anyone really covering this before, and was hoping to just start off learning leg spin. It appears to be so different from other types of bowling that it doesn't seem like learning to bowl medium pace or off spin would really be worth the time. I'd like to know how everyone here started bowling leg spin and whether anyone thinks it's worth it to do other things first.

Finally, any tips for starting out? At the moment I'm just bowling at a fence at the park from eighteen yards or so, with a one step run-up. So any good starting drills would be appreciated.
 
GanglyGoogly said:
Hello all,
I've been reading through this forum quite a lot in the last few months, and I finally started playing last week. Despite the many tribulations, you've all inspired me to bowl leg spin. Having done so for one week I can say that my bowling is mostly awful, but the half dozen that come out right really make it worth it. I've been concentrating on just getting the ball to turn for the moment and I'll work on accuracy and consistency later. So all in all, so far it's been quite rewarding.

I've joined a club out here in California, and some of the bowlers there (a couple of whom are leg spinners) said that it's best to progress from seam up fast-medium to finger spin and then, once that's good enough, move on to wrist spin. I don't remember anyone really covering this before, and was hoping to just start off learning leg spin. It appears to be so different from other types of bowling that it doesn't seem like learning to bowl medium pace or off spin would really be worth the time. I'd like to know how everyone here started bowling leg spin and whether anyone thinks it's worth it to do other things first.

Finally, any tips for starting out? At the moment I'm just bowling at a fence at the park from eighteen yards or so, with a one step run-up. So any good starting drills would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

As much as i'd love to say jump straight into leg spin I think they're probably right to an extent, cricket is a game where you really need to build firm foundations and consequently is usually a game best begun when very young. With kids it's easy to say start off bowling seam up, because they usually want to do that anyway and spin is a bit too difficult for most of them. But you're starting as an adult which makes it somewhat different, as you'll probably possess the requisite finger. shoulder and wrist strength to dive straight in and possibly the patience as well. A few people on here have begun as adults and they've seemed to do fine, but my own personal opinion is that if you are a complete beginner with no previous skills then I would say yes, start off by constructing a normal bowling action and understanding all the basics first. I'm sure people will disagree with me on this but you'll definitely benefit from it in the long term if you can just be patient. When you're batting you don't just move straight to the hook, pull and paddle sweep shots do you? and then practice nothing but those. Its important to have an as near to perfect defence as you can muster from which to build upward and onward into the attacking shots. A nice, smooth well drilled fast-medium pace bowling action will give you that base from which to construct a superior spinners action eventually, even though they will be quite different.
 
In the interests of balance, an alternative to GA's view is go straight into leg spin if thats where you want to end up and I certainly wouldnt recommend learning off spin as a 'route' to leg spin. Hopefully what the guys that are saying you need to learn to bowl seam up / medium pace are really talking about is getting a safe, reliable bowling action that you can then some how convert to a good leg spin action, personally I would go straight to that point which is perfectly possible. The advantage of learning to bowl as a leg spinner is that things are naturally slower and more measured in terms of run ups etc so therefore there should be more control which is sometimes lacking when people try to bowl quickly.

Have a look at this video if you can, see how the bowler doesnt need a lot of pace in the run up/walk in but still generated lots of drive in the delivery stride http://www.youtube.com/smartercricket#p/u/12/E_4hBi_u1wY I know its easy for people to say that you need to work and work on your leg break before variations, but the problem is its the truth, best of luck
 
I should clarify that I'm new to organized cricket; I've played many times in the park with a few people and a tennis ball, and played at a club in England for a few years as a kid. So, while I don't have any real experience of actually playing, I have bowled medium pace before, and not had any problems with it, in terms of getting the action right. Granted it has been a while since the last time I did, so I do need to go back to the basics and make sure I'm not hurting myself, but I do have some semblance of a baseline in place. I don't think my action is too bad, and I think it's quite consistent apart from what I'm doing with my wrist and fingers as I release the ball, so I feel like that's what I need to be concentrating on.

I'll try to see if I can find a video camera and take some video, because I'm not too sure what the coaching level is over here or whether we even have one! For now I'll just go with leg spin and work with the standing start drill Dave posted on Youtube and worry about the run-up later. Is that the best way to start?
 
GanglyGoogly said:
I should clarify that I'm new to organized cricket; I've played many times in the park with a few people and a tennis ball, and played at a club in England for a few years as a kid. So, while I don't have any real experience of actually playing, I have bowled medium pace before, and not had any problems with it, in terms of getting the action right. Granted it has been a while since the last time I did, so I do need to go back to the basics and make sure I'm not hurting myself, but I do have some semblance of a baseline in place. I don't think my action is too bad, and I think it's quite consistent apart from what I'm doing with my wrist and fingers as I release the ball, so I feel like that's what I need to be concentrating on.

I'll try to see if I can find a video camera and take some video, because I'm not too sure what the coaching level is over here or whether we even have one! For now I'll just go with leg spin and work with the standing start drill Dave posted on Youtube and worry about the run-up later. Is that the best way to start?
Click to expand...
To give my own views and experiences, I was a shockingly bad bowler at school because I could never get my arm high enough for seam-up, then when I started playing again last year (after over a decade's break) I somehow latched on to the idea of bowling leg-spin, it seems to suit me and I'm just about getting to a semi-decent level now. I think the coach at School would be amazed to see me now...

I think if you've got a natural talent for it you should progress pretty quickly - there's a teenager at my club who converted from seam-up to leg-spin only this winter who bowls brilliantly well and took a leg-spun 5 for 55 on Saturday - but for someone like me (not a natural sportsman, to put it mildly) it will take a lot of work, and even more patience and motivation, but if you've got that there's no reason not to go straight in to bowling leggies. The main issues I have at the moment is I'm not quite good enough for the captain to have confidence in throwing me the ball, and when you get smacked for 18 off your first and consequently only over, or don't get to bowl at all, or don't even make the team, it really will test just how much you want to be a leg-spinner. I've got no alternative, but if you can bowl seam-up reasonably well (and bowling at an acceptable level seam-up - i.e. taking the odd wicket at a rate of less than 5 an over - will take probably 10% of the practise it takes to get to an acceptable level as a leg-spinner) I imagine when these problems crop up it would be extremely tempting to give up leggies.
 
I started as an adult (at 23) and jumped straight into leg spin. I too played a little as a kid at school (odd matches, not for a couple of years, so you have a better starting point that I did), bowled straight (I won't call it medium pace because it was horribly slow, and I used to bowl endless wides, much like now haha), but then I didn't play again for near enough 10 years when I then took up leg spin having watched Warnie in the 2005 Ashes. I just bowled a little with tennis balls in the back yard against my brother, we mostly played underarm though as our garden is too small, and thats how I developed the spinning action in my wrist/fingers.

I think the most important thing, before any kind of actual bowling action, is to develop the spin. Just spin a cricket ball between hands every spare second you get. I did this for near enough a year I think before I actually bowled an overarm delivery. Being able to spin the ball hard before you attempt to actually bowl a delivery gives you an instant advantage, and motivation. Accuracy and consistency will be horrible to begin with. We were talking at cricket the other week and someone said "apparently they say you have to bowl 10,000 deliveries as a leggie before you are even close to getting it right". I had heard Warne or someone say this as well, but I did some rough maths and I reckon I've bowled about 6,000-10,000 deliveries already, and I'm probably still another 5,000-10,000 from where I want to be!! Then I thought about why, and the reason is that you have to bowl 10,000 deliveries with near-perfect form to condition the body to have the consistency!! All those rank ones don't count, the counter doesn't even start until you get to a point where you are half decent!! I think I'm just about there now, so another 3 years and I might be where I want to be. So its probably more like 20,000+ deliveries for most people, which means 5 years+ of serious commitment to get good.

So you definitely don't want to be wasting months/years practicing medium pace in my opinion. If you can physically move your arm in an overarm arc, release a ball with side spin, and get the odd one to land and turn, then you've got the required foundations to bowl leg spin. There is no benefit to be had from bowling anything but leg spin. Provided you have the mental strength and commitment to understand that 90% of what you do for at least the first year will be horrible, but that it is all a requirement for the end result, then just go for it.

I think the bowling medium pace to start with thing is probably of more merit for kids. They may not possess the ability to physically spin a ball (most kid leggies I see don't really spin the ball, the spin is imparted by the wrist position as they turn their arm and the ball basically drags out with spin, very few actually rip the ball with the wrist and fingers), have no foundation for bowling, lack the mentality and patience to stick at it hard enough, lack the understanding to know why things are/aren't working, and just don't have the physical strength. As an adult you are much better equipped to just dive in at the deep end.

It is a LONG process learning leg spin to a decent standard. I have been bowling for nearly 4 years now, and I reckon I'm about 60-70% there (with "there" being a solid club leggie, that can land 95% of balls within 6" of their intended target, and most of them turn) on a good day. If you understand how hard it will be, and how hard it will be to fit into a team for those first few years, then thats half the battle really. When you start to string everything together, you realise it is all worth it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top